I’ve really enjoyed reading ALL of these responses. I honestly did not know that what I was perceiving was an issue for so many. (And the mental image Garth painted of pedaling among galloping horses in Ohio was an added bonus in this thread.) In fact, I’d have likely just lived with the annoyance of inadequate setback had I not also owned a Clem. I do sit down and in that bike, and once you know it’s possible, you want it for ALL your bikes. I talked myself out of solving the problem because I knew the Platypus to be a long bike - why should it feel too short for me? My perception must be wrong.
I feel really great on that already great Platypus now; I don’t think I’ll need to change the stem. The Billie Bars continue to be perfect, and I love my saddle, so there is nothing left to do but enjoy the bike all of my life. Leah > On Nov 21, 2021, at 5:30 AM, Garth <garth...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Does anyone even know what the seat tube angle is on the Platypus ? Likely > not as the frame geometry was never included in the table. It's either 72 or > 71.5. All 'n all in my opinion Grant/Will could do a better job of educating > buyers on fitting their bikes rather than saying "just trust us". That > rather irks me actually as it's the same-ol-same-ol bike shop mentality > that's been around since I can remember. "We know better than the customer." > No, they don't, as if they did they'd take the time to share in the process > of fitting the bike to the customers sensibilities, not the bike shops as > their take is inherently of their own self interests. Buying a bike virtually > makes it challenging for everyone of course. I take it upon myself to check a > frame before I buy it to see what all specs are, if the seat angle is 72 or > less, if it has enough f-c, stack and reach and all that jazz. Learn what it > all means and how that will translate to actually fitting into the frame. > Besides the Bombadil, the only other frame I considered suitable from them > was a Susie, which I bought but as of yet I don't feel any enthusiasm to > build. > > With a Platypus and a swept back bar I suspect Leah and Roberta could use a > longer stem, assuming the saddle is now in the "sweet spot" of what feels > right and what feels right is intuitive, a centering balance of being "in the > bike" and being able to pedal efficiently. No one can tell you what that > point is .... it's like an ah-hah ! moment when you understand something > within. It's the Intelligence that is "you", it's irrevocable. Once you feel > that sweet spot then the reach to the bar is likewise intuitive. Feeling > cramped in a frame really is a joy sucker isn't it ? ! It's like wearing > pants or a jacket that are too tight in some way that you feel restricted, > and nobody likes that feeling. I like stretched out relax-forward too, I'm > not riding a galloping horse straight upright with the reigns on my thighs, > you know ? That's why I ride a bike, whose wheels are fixed and not > galloping, unlike a horse ! Speaking of which I passed by a pair on the > road yesterday, a "country" road of course. Around here you'll see that, and > yes, the horses had riders. I know what you were thinking , riderless horses > running wild on the road ! They kept up with me for awhile, I could hear > their clickety-click behind me and I glanced back and saw these two gaints > galloping in tow, oh how majestic ! > > About the stems, I get the attachment to the Nitto negative rise road stems > but if you used a threadless adapter and a threadless stem that has a > positive rise, or even the Nitto Hi-Riser quill, you don't need nearly as > long of a quill. Frankly though, if you're having to use such a tall stem in > the first place the stack height of the frame is too low to start with. > Consider a custom frame, if not from Riv then from someone else. I'm having a > road frame built here in Ohio and he, Jack can build all sorts of frames > including mixtes. With 27.2 posts too ! > > In regards to seatposts, in 26.8 setback posts are few to start with so yeah > finding one with more than 23-25mm of setback seems limited to the IRD. > Thomson's seatposts I call "lame-back" because it's a measly 15mm of setback. > Does that even count ? If you're gonna set it back you may well make in back > enough to notice. They had a prototype 25mm setback post a couple years ago > that never made it to market. Again though, with these short railed leather > saddles the seat tube angles should be more like 71 degrees which usually > puts them in the custom frame category as few offer that as stock. Jones does > but that's not the kind of bike we're speaking of here ! With a 71 sta though > that opens the door to less/zero setback posts and/or placing a saddle in the > middle of the rails rather than jammed to the front of the rails. I ride > luxurious "Royalgel" Selle Royal Lookin saddles that have thankfully long > rails and those are just long enough I can use them with a 72 degree sta and > a Salsa Shaft seatpost on the Bombadil. I'm someone who finds leather saddles > simply tortuous on the ishiums, those inner parts of sitting bones. Ouch just > thinking about it ! > > > > >> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 1:48:03 AM UTC-5 Ray Varella wrote: >> Leah et al; >> You pointed out exactly why the first thing I look at with bike fit is if I >> can achieve the desired setback for my preferred position. >> Everyone will differ and everyone will have their ideal range but once you >> know your comfort zone you can get a better idea where your frame will fit >> regarding your preferred riding position. >> For myself, I tend to avoid frames with seat tubes of 74 degrees and steeper >> because I can’t slide a Brooks saddle far enough back to achieve a >> comfortable riding position. Someone riding an identical sized bike might be >> fine due to either saddle choice, femur length, bar height or riding >> position. >> Bicycle manufacturers aim for the meaty part of the curve but it’s up to us >> to dial in our preferred fit. >> Kudos to you for recognizing this and hopefully others will optimize their >> fit for their riding style. >> >> Ray >> >>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 7:50:50 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote: >>> —-The only hangup with the Thompson being, you can only get it into the >>> frame up to the bend in the post >>> >>>>> On Nov 20, 2021, at 18:13, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>> You are absolutely right to change saddle setback for comfort and balance >>>> (and torque too) instead of the stem length; saddle position, including >>>> setback, is the anchor of bike fit, all else is adjusted in reference to >>>> the saddle. I found this out the very hard way (see below). >>>> >>>> I don't think that the Wayback looks bad, but perhaps the Thompson Layback >>>> in silver might look slightly more elegant? I used a Thompson long ago to >>>> get a Brooks Flyer far back enough on a 73* seat tube on a mountain bike >>>> and it worked well despite the rails way-too-short for a 73* seat tube. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- *** ------------- >>>> Years ago when I still believed in "KOPS" -- "knee over pedal spindle" -- >>>> and liking then as I do now a lot of leg extension, I ended up with a >>>> Ritchey mountain bike seatpost on a road bike with saddle all the way >>>> forward on the rails (it would slip forward under my weight until I >>>> slathered the cradle in blue Loctite), and this had me installing a 140 mm >>>> (later 135 mm) Cinelli stem, with bar 6" below saddle. I was a young 39-40 >>>> something, so quite flexible. >>>> >>>> The frame was actually quite nice -- upper end British Falcon, tout 531C >>>> -- with longish stays and very, very short front-center. You can imagine >>>> what the bike felt like on fast downhill sweepers, especially with gusty >>>> sidewinds. My weight was biased so for forward that I'd skip the rear >>>> wheel when standing to climb. >>>> >>>> Alas, I sold the bike before I learned (from Grant, in fact) how to >>>> properly set up a bike: "Get your bar up and back and you saddle back and >>>> down." I've not looked back. Thanks, Grant. >>>> >>>> That Falcon would probably have felt very comfortable with a wayback >>>> saddle to give torque over the top-dead-center of the pedal stroke and >>>> enable the core muscles to support the torso, reducing weight on >>>> shoulders, arms, and hands. With the rearward weight and the short front >>>> end, I'll bet that Falcon would not only have pedaled very nicely, but >>>> handled very nicely too, perhaps with something of Grant's signature >>>> "stable yet quick in turn-in" feel. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 2:03 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! >>>> <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> <4F9D0A57-31F2-46D8-9FC5-2B4CD19A8377.jpeg> >>>>> <01A4B13F-B79C-4AD6-87AA-865A60510C77.jpeg> >>> >>>>> .... . I had not been getting along with my stock seat post (the nose of >>>>> the saddle would tip up) and my Brooks (it was rubbing me the wrong way - >>>>> ha).... a Nitto S83 post, which didn’t offer enough setback. I wanted to >>>>> scoot back, but was at the end of the Rivet. I was holding my bars >>>>> forward of the grips to compensate. I wanted to be more stretched out; I >>>>> felt cramped. ... >>>>> Rivendell sells an IRD Wayback seat post. I’m sure I’m committing some >>>>> ergonomic sin by adjusting seat post and not stem, but it WORKED. >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgtoY5J0_VHHcLWwLv-xE5tGiQ6GfrkrLNzbo1VwDNGXsA%40mail.gmail.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/DDqsLDEcIi4/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b774a2c1-068c-4371-8774-261f86505712n%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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