Patrick: You are correct, the very long effective toptubes of Clems makes it possible to run a sweepback bar without sitting bolt upright. Leah (Bicycle Belle Ding Ding) might want to chime in here, she has much experience with this on Clems and Platys.
On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 10:19:04 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote: > I have no dog scheduled for participation in this most benign of > discussions, but I do have a question. I as Garth like a riding position > that bends my hips sufficiently -- so, sufficient saddle setback and > sufficient bar drop and distance -- and I as he expect that a Roadini > designed for a drop bar will handle awkwardly with a Billy Bar. I'm > speculating but that would certainly be true with my blue Ram or even first > edition Sam. > > But the Clem and similar designs: I have a practical interest as I have > seriously considered buying a Clem. So my question is, to Garth and others: > doesn't the very design of the Clem frame "optimize" it for a sweepback bar > and an upright riding position? > > So, isn't the Clem designed for long sweepback bars by having a very long > tt so that despite your Billy Bar you still have to learn forward enough > for decent hip angle? > > There is a discussion currently over on iBob about sta and whether steep > stas allow more power, and one thread direction has been rod brake > roadsters and omafietses which of course have very slack stas. It has been > asserted that these very slack stas are good because they allow you to sit > bolt upright while getting enough hip angle to put needed torque on the > pedals -- and God knows that RBRs are overgeared by modern standards: 68' > or 72 and that's before you add a SA AW hub with 133% overdrive! > > I realize that all of this has nothing to do with "tiller effect." > > On Mon, Sep 11, 2023 at 6:17 AM Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> More specifically Eddie, I don't think using a bar like the Billie on a >> Roadini is a good idea to begin with if you find yourself wanting to move >> forward for a more stable steering experience. You be much better of with a >> shallow drop bar. Personally, I don't think having high bars lives up to >> the purported benefits often espoused by Will or Grant and all that ride >> them. I found just the opposite myself..... it's like wanting to get from >> Dallas to Atlanta via Seattle. .... "your're going the wrong way !". Bikes >> simply handle wonderfully with your body weight forward and hands forward >> of the steering axis. I get that GP designs his "upright" bikes to maximize >> the "high, back and upright" position in terms of stability, but to me all >> the compensating in the world for being so far back of the steering axis >> will ever eliminate that "twitchy, tiller effect". That said lots of people >> ride them and love them and rightly so. I'm coming from a place where I >> simply don't relate to that in a positive way. It's a matter of taste, and >> we all have an affinity for what we have an affinity for. I can't stand the >> Star Anise flavor for example, that many people love. While I don't relate >> to the flavor itself, I certainly relate to the experiencing of that which >> one enjoys. >> >> I think of how Rivendell frame design has so radically changed in the >> last 20 years. You could say the Clem design may have saved the company as >> it became so popular as the basic road bike design had seemed to become so >> passe', so to speak. In the seeming endless quest for something "new" to >> experience, I can see how road bike design went to ape crazy into carbon >> for lightness and disc brakes and now aerodynamics. It's making the bikes >> way more complex that they need to be, and making them out to be something >> more than they ever are. .... a means to "the ride" ! That quest for >> "newness" is ironically the source of all the woes of the world, as the >> inherent message within it is that "now isn't good enough, it's lacking in >> some way, so more is needed, some compensation is required in ordered to be >> fulfilled !". The problem with that is that is just a big fat lie. The >> compensation is never enough, no matter how much is given, more is always >> taken, more is demanded. More is never enough. Of course it's never enough, >> and that's the point. ISness can't be fulfilled or made because it isn't >> absent in any way. What a paradox ..... things that seem to appear missing >> aren't missing at all..... they're revealing in the Light the actuality of >> What IS :) How cool that is ...... Ride on. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e274ef18-94cf-4e09-b29a-e4e046f19e1cn%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e274ef18-94cf-4e09-b29a-e4e046f19e1cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *When thou didst not, savage,* > > *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like* > > *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes* > > *With words that made them known.* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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