I only got one taker on my last thought experiment. Here's another one: Cyclist A has a 17-pound fixie. They take a guess at a gear for the fixie, install a 49x18 and ride it around. They decide "This seems a little under geared." and they switch the 18 tooth cog for a 17. They ride that and decide "this is just right" and ride the bike happily
Cyclist B has a 17-pound fixie. They take a guess at a gear for the fixie, install a 49x18 and declare this is "usual". They ride it around and find the bicycle encourages them to ride one tooth smaller. They obey the bicycle's encouragement and switch the 18 tooth cog for a 17. They ride that happily, and ask everyone around them "What makes this bike encourage me to ride one tooth smaller than usual, consistently?" Is Cyclist A's bike fast? Is the magical encouragement claimed by Cyclist B all in their head? Is "a slightly under geared bike" and "encourages me to ride one cog smaller" the exact same thing? Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 9:42:00 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote: > OK, thought experiment time! > > You have to build four bikes. All four bikes must fit you identically. > All the contact points of all four bikes will be identical. All four > bikes will have geometry/handling that are similar enough to each other > that you'll concede they ride/handle the same. > > Bike A is for sand and has 3.0" wide tires and weighs 30 pounds > Bike B is for grocery runs, pavement and firm dirt. It's got front and > rear derailleurs and weighs 30 pounds unloaded and 75 pounds with groceries > Bike C has an IGH and is used for pavement and grocery runs. It weighs 28 > pounds unloaded and 73 pounds with groceries > Bike D is a stripped down fixie for unloaded pavement rides only. It > weighs 17 pounds > > You mostly ride bikes A, B and C. Every once in a while you ride bike D > and every time you do, it feels amazingly fast and easy to pedal. > > Question: Why does Bike D feel fast and easy to pedal? > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > > On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 10:12:25 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote: > >> All bikes have the same effective sta: the 1999 and the Matthews #2 clone >> both have 73* stas, and the Matthews #1 has the saddle forward on the rails >> to compensate for the 72* sta. I start setup with saddle height and setback >> wrt the bb centerline -- pretty close to identical for all my bikes -- and >> use the saddle to gauge bar and brake lever position. >> >> On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 2:49 PM 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW >> Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >>> Patrick >>> >>> Maybe this was asked/answered, but is the STA or saddle setback the same >>> on Ford Blue as the others?? Are you in a different position?? >>> >>> John Hawrylak >>> Woodstown NJ >>> >>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 5:35:08 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: >>> >>>> This is hardly a new question for me or for others, but it is a >>>> question that strikes me anew when I ride the 1999 Joe Starck and find, >>>> once again as always in getting on for 25 years of ownership that *it's >>>> just easier to maintain speed and cadence in given conditions in given >>>> gears,* this both on the flats and on hills. I remember being struck >>>> by this, again at the start of each ride on it, in the first years of >>>> ownership. >>>> >>>> Tires make a difference, tho' it felt this way with 571 X 23 mm Conti >>>> Grands Prix and Michelin Pro Races and with 559 X 23 mm Specialized >>>> Turbos; >>>> with the slightly wider (27.19 mm rear at 60 psi and 27.49 mm front at 55 >>>> psi on my 19 mm OW rims) and even lighter and more supple Elk Passes it >>>> feels even faster and *smoother.* >>>> >>>> BTW, I wholly discountenance the opinion that harshness or vibration >>>> makes riders think they're going fast. At least, perhaps some people do >>>> that, but I've always associated harshness with slowness and smoothness >>>> with speed. But again, the '99 has always felt *smooth* and *fast.* >>>> >>>> What provoked this perennial question was my very pleasant >>>> mid-afternoon ride today. My route included about 1 mile of steep hill >>>> starting at Broadway and, feeling tired and sluggish and being old I >>>> considered swapping the Phil 17/19Dingle wheel (76" and 68") with the SA >>>> TF >>>> wheel (76" and 57" underdrive), but didn't want the bother and decided I'd >>>> just walk if necessary. >>>> >>>> I did plan to move the chain to the 19 t/68" gear once I got downtown, >>>> but didn't do this, either. Winds variable up to about 7-8 mph. >>>> >>>> I took it easy but found myself following some youngster on a thin-tire >>>> 700C derailleur hybrid for about 8 miles; I finally caught up to him at >>>> the >>>> first light on Coal and followed him up the climb. I think he was a UNM >>>> student and at least 45 years younger than I, and he put a few yards on me >>>> up the hill spinning in a low gear but I was surprised once again (this is >>>> the point, don't mind my meandering) at *how well and easily* the bike >>>> climbs. >>>> >>>> ??? >>>> >>>> Planing? The frame is not as over-beefy as the 2003 Goodrich custom but >>>> it's not as light and certainly has fatter tubes than the wonderful >>>> thinwall 531 normal gauge 2020 Matthews replacement of the 2003. >>>> >>>> Weight? With the Phil it's right at 18 lb without bottle or bag versus >>>> ~28 for the Matthews road with F+R racks, fenders, lights, and SA 3 speed >>>> hub, and versus the 30-31 lb of the Matthews road-bike-for-dirt with 2X10 >>>> derailleur drivetrain, 50 mm tires, 2X gauge fenders, dynamo lighting, and >>>> rear rack. But it feels fast on the flats at steady-state cruising. I >>>> daresay that the weight makes a difference on hills, but I *don't* think >>>> that weight is the only reason. >>>> >>>> I know that some bikes just fit and feel "perfect," and this is one of >>>> them (tho' the 2 Matthewses fit just about the same since I built them up >>>> to do so). That old Herse was a tank that 2 earlier owners sold for cheap >>>> but for me it rode "fast" if not as fast as the 1999 Joe Starck. >>>> >>>> To end this meandering: since so much of my riding is either errands >>>> requiring bags or dirt requiring fat tires the 1999 gets ridden less than >>>> it otherwise would, but if I had to get ride of all bikes but one, I'd >>>> happily keep this and build 1 or 2 alternative wheelsets (geared/skinny, >>>> geared/fattish) and buy a bit selection of strap-on saddlebags from repair >>>> kit only to Sackville Medium. >>>> >>>> I've owned 5 Rivendells including 3 customs and this one is the last >>>> (tho' the 2020 Matthews is a copy of the 2003). >>>> >>>> Sorry, can't resist posting again: >>>> >>>> [image: image.png] >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Patrick Moore >>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >>>> services >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* >>>> >>>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* >>>> >>>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* >>>> >>> -- >>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1d8e24a9-0448-4830-8a0e-806fbfc45371n%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1d8e24a9-0448-4830-8a0e-806fbfc45371n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >> services >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* >> >> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* >> >> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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