On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 2:40 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch < rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Responding to Bill L's 2nd thought experiment, here's my quick $0.02 > (can't find the cent key) > > Is Cyclist A's bike fast? > It's as fast they like it to be. They report 'happy' not necessarily fast > > Is the magical encouragement claimed by Cyclist B all in their head? > No, with the initial gearing, they felt a higher gear would be ok and it > worked out to be so. Good for them > > Is "a slightly under geared bike" and "encourages me to ride one cog > smaller" the exact same thing? > Good point, in this case it seems to be. > For what it's worth, my "one gear higher" is based on a years' long comfortable cruising gear, or very small range, basically 70-72" for a heavier bike that carries loads. When I say that a bike encourages a gear 1 tooth smaller, that means about 75" instead of about 70". For the Herse and the Matthews #1, for example, that meant I'd feel like riding a ~74-75" gear in the same conditions that for the 2003 Curt I'd feel most comfortable in a ~70" gear. > Assumptions > 1 both bikes have same tubing since weight is given as 17# for both with > no qualifications for other components > 2 A and B weigh about the same, within 20# > > Observation > The gearing change was about 6% higher in both cases or about 4.4gi if > using 700x32 tires (74.4gi to 78.8gi). This is pretty much my upper > cruising range, so we are not talking hills. > > John Hawrylak > Woodstown NJ > > > On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 02:03:29 PM EST, Bill Lindsay < > tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I only got one taker on my last thought experiment. Here's another one: > > Cyclist A has a 17-pound fixie. They take a guess at a gear for the > fixie, install a 49x18 and ride it around. They decide "This seems a > little under geared." and they switch the 18 tooth cog for a 17. They ride > that and decide "this is just right" and ride the bike happily > > Cyclist B has a 17-pound fixie. They take a guess at a gear for the > fixie, install a 49x18 and declare this is "usual". They ride it around and > find the bicycle encourages them to ride one tooth smaller. They obey the > bicycle's encouragement and switch the 18 tooth cog for a 17. They ride > that happily, and ask everyone around them "What makes this bike encourage > me to ride one tooth smaller than usual, consistently?" > > Is Cyclist A's bike fast? Is the magical encouragement claimed by Cyclist > B all in their head? Is "a slightly under geared bike" and "encourages me > to ride one cog smaller" the exact same thing? > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > > On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 9:42:00 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote: > > OK, thought experiment time! > > You have to build four bikes. All four bikes must fit you identically. > All the contact points of all four bikes will be identical. All four bikes > will have geometry/handling that are similar enough to each other that > you'll concede they ride/handle the same. > > Bike A is for sand and has 3.0" wide tires and weighs 30 pounds > Bike B is for grocery runs, pavement and firm dirt. It's got front and > rear derailleurs and weighs 30 pounds unloaded and 75 pounds with groceries > Bike C has an IGH and is used for pavement and grocery runs. It weighs 28 > pounds unloaded and 73 pounds with groceries > Bike D is a stripped down fixie for unloaded pavement rides only. It > weighs 17 pounds > > You mostly ride bikes A, B and C. Every once in a while you ride bike D > and every time you do, it feels amazingly fast and easy to pedal. > > Question: Why does Bike D feel fast and easy to pedal? > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > > On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 10:12:25 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote: > > All bikes have the same effective sta: the 1999 and the Matthews #2 clone > both have 73* stas, and the Matthews #1 has the saddle forward on the rails > to compensate for the 72* sta. I start setup with saddle height and setback > wrt the bb centerline -- pretty close to identical for all my bikes -- and > use the saddle to gauge bar and brake lever position. > > On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 2:49 PM 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW > Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Patrick > > Maybe this was asked/answered, but is the STA or saddle setback the same > on Ford Blue as the others?? Are you in a different position?? > > John Hawrylak > Woodstown NJ > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 5:35:08 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: > > This is hardly a new question for me or for others, but it is a question > that strikes me anew when I ride the 1999 Joe Starck and find, once again > as always in getting on for 25 years of ownership that *it's just easier > to maintain speed and cadence in given conditions in given gears,* this > both on the flats and on hills. I remember being struck by this, again at > the start of each ride on it, in the first years of ownership. > > Tires make a difference, tho' it felt this way with 571 X 23 mm Conti > Grands Prix and Michelin Pro Races and with 559 X 23 mm Specialized Turbos; > with the slightly wider (27.19 mm rear at 60 psi and 27.49 mm front at 55 > psi on my 19 mm OW rims) and even lighter and more supple Elk Passes it > feels even faster and *smoother.* > > BTW, I wholly discountenance the opinion that harshness or vibration makes > riders think they're going fast. At least, perhaps some people do that, but > I've always associated harshness with slowness and smoothness with speed. > But again, the '99 has always felt *smooth* and *fast.* > > What provoked this perennial question was my very pleasant mid-afternoon > ride today. My route included about 1 mile of steep hill starting at > Broadway and, feeling tired and sluggish and being old I considered > swapping the Phil 17/19Dingle wheel (76" and 68") with the SA TF wheel (76" > and 57" underdrive), but didn't want the bother and decided I'd just walk > if necessary. > > I did plan to move the chain to the 19 t/68" gear once I got downtown, but > didn't do this, either. Winds variable up to about 7-8 mph. > > I took it easy but found myself following some youngster on a thin-tire > 700C derailleur hybrid for about 8 miles; I finally caught up to him at the > first light on Coal and followed him up the climb. I think he was a UNM > student and at least 45 years younger than I, and he put a few yards on me > up the hill spinning in a low gear but I was surprised once again (this is > the point, don't mind my meandering) at *how well and easily* the bike > climbs. > > ??? > > Planing? The frame is not as over-beefy as the 2003 Goodrich custom but > it's not as light and certainly has fatter tubes than the wonderful > thinwall 531 normal gauge 2020 Matthews replacement of the 2003. > > Weight? With the Phil it's right at 18 lb without bottle or bag versus ~28 > for the Matthews road with F+R racks, fenders, lights, and SA 3 speed hub, > and versus the 30-31 lb of the Matthews road-bike-for-dirt with 2X10 > derailleur drivetrain, 50 mm tires, 2X gauge fenders, dynamo lighting, and > rear rack. But it feels fast on the flats at steady-state cruising. I > daresay that the weight makes a difference on hills, but I *don't* think > that weight is the only reason. > > I know that some bikes just fit and feel "perfect," and this is one of > them (tho' the 2 Matthewses fit just about the same since I built them up > to do so). That old Herse was a tank that 2 earlier owners sold for cheap > but for me it rode "fast" if not as fast as the 1999 Joe Starck. > > To end this meandering: since so much of my riding is either errands > requiring bags or dirt requiring fat tires the 1999 gets ridden less than > it otherwise would, but if I had to get ride of all bikes but one, I'd > happily keep this and build 1 or 2 alternative wheelsets (geared/skinny, > geared/fattish) and buy a bit selection of strap-on saddlebags from repair > kit only to Sackville Medium. > > I've owned 5 Rivendells including 3 customs and this one is the last (tho' > the 2020 Matthews is a copy of the 2003). > > Sorry, can't resist posting again: > > [image: image.png] > -- > > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* > > *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* > > *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1d8e24a9-0448-4830-8a0e-806fbfc45371n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1d8e24a9-0448-4830-8a0e-806fbfc45371n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > > -- > > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing > services > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* > > *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* > > *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/e1zJO1Hhl-U/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/044289e9-acc9-48fc-b50a-695014d5faf7n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/044289e9-acc9-48fc-b50a-695014d5faf7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2121384520.1006167.1705095598858%40mail.yahoo.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2121384520.1006167.1705095598858%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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