I have a pretty limited bike budget, so when I bought my Sam last summer, a $1000 Riv frame was already a stretch, but for a Riv it seemed like a good buy, and then the idea of getting a lugged steel frame hand made in the USA for $1250 was VERY compelling. (Ironically, the double top tube and "indeterminate" delivery date led be to buy a Taiwan Sam at the end of the day). However, a $1400 price tag probably would have led me back to the Surly site. I know it seems trifling, but not all buying decisions are rational. I sometimes think that Riv causes itself a lot of grief (and they say as much on their site) with the combination of highly "variable" sourcing and a high degree of transparency about that sourcing. It's a necessary evil, of course, and I can appreciate that it's really hard to meet the price points they are trying to, and live up to their "Buy American" mantra at every opportunity.
I'll add my voice to the "A Riv is a Riv is a Riv" chorus... -Pete On Jan 25, 2:30 am, Benedikt <neutralbuoya...@comcast.net> wrote: > Just the other day I read on the Riv website that they are raising the > price of the Waterford Sam's to cover the cost. I believe it costs > more for them to have frames built from Waterford. Not that this > makes them any better, just that it costs more to have the same > product built in the U.S. When I was waiting for my Sam (and waiting, > and waiting, and waiting) they started the Waterford option. > Apparently it was taking longer then expected to get the shipment in > from Taiwan and they worked a deal with Waterford to "catch up". > > I wonder if people are willing to pay more for the Waterford's would > they be willing to pay more for one made in Japan as opposed to > Taiwan, all quality and everything else being equal? > > Although (as I've said before) I love having a product that was made > in the U.S. I will have to agree with Garth and say that wherever they > are made all of them are great. > > On Jan 23, 10:37 pm, Bob <prov...@umbc.edu> wrote: > > > Following the Taiwan tact of this discussion, the issue of the > > Hunqapillar build is yet more complicated. On the Riv site, after > > describing the wonderous tubing used in its build, it's reported that > > the fame is made in Taiwan under the direction of Toyo, with the fork > > made by Toyo, the suppliers of the well regarded fork they provided > > for their Atlantis. Does this make Toyo the "A" Team, with Taiwan the > > backup, lower cost,and perhaps lower skill provider? Is this Toyo/ > > Taiwan collaboration still in place, and is Waterford contributing > > anything to the project? Is Waterford limited in what it can do, or > > do for Riv at a competitive price? Such production details tend to > > drift and the Riv site is not always updated in a timely fashion. I'm > > impressed by Riv quality and am the happy owner of a first edition > > green, Taiwan Sam. These are the kind of esoteric details one asks > > about products one cares about, and of a culture that invites > > them. > > > On Jan 24, 12:43 am, James Warren <jimcwar...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > > Well, I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something along the > > > lines of Toyo's fork curve being a home run while the curve done by > > > Taiwan is a solid double. > > > > Puts the Taiwan product in a more positive light, which it deserves. (New > > > Hillborne owner talking here!) We're talking about different levels of > > > greatness. My Hillborne is a Taiwanese. I also own a Waterford-made AHH > > > a Toyo-made Atlantis and I wouldn't advise anyone against getting the one > > > made in Taiwan. > > > > On Jan 23, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bob wrote: > > > > > Grant has emphasized the special qualities of the Toyo fork and how > > > > such geometry could not be matched on the Taiwan Sams. So is the > > > > Waterford a match or improvement over the Toyo edition? Also, does > > > > the Waterford Atlantis have the same impressive chainstay geometry and > > > > form of the Toyo? I don't doubt the quality of the Waterford product, > > > > just differences in production. Put another way, if they were standing > > > > next to each other, could you tell the difference? Is there any > > > > reason for a person to prefer one over the other? > > > > > On Jan 22, 11:34 pm, Bob <prov...@umbc.edu> wrote: > > > >> How does the Toyo built Atlantis differ in quality and/or geometry > > > >> from the Waterford edition? Exclude differences in braze-ons, > > > >> kickstand plate and range of sizes. > > > > >> In other words, what, if anything, was gained or lost by the change in > > > >> builder? > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > > For more options, visit this group > > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
