" I have been scolded for discussing such heresy in the past, but the most obvious cost savings I can think of for Riv frames would be to switch from threaded to threadless steerers. With threadless, one fork fits all"
Remember that's not quite as helpful for Rivs because Rivs come with different wheel sizes. For example, if Betty Foy had a threadless fork, we'd go from 4 sizes to 3. Not that big a help. Sam would go from 5 to 2, so that maybe would help some. The high end frames are made to order anyway. On Thursday, September 6, 2012 4:45:47 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: > > I have been scolded for discussing such heresy in the past, but the most > obvious cost savings I can think of for Riv frames would be to switch from > threaded to threadless steerers. With threadless, one fork fits all frames. > With threaded, each frame size takes a different fork. This means extra > forks must be stocked in each size for warranty replacements, etc, plus, I > assume, making 4 or 5 different forks in smaller quantities is more > expensive than making one fork in a larger quantity. Obviously, I don't > know how the threaded-fork penalty compares to the other costs in frame > production, but I wouldn't be surprised if it adds $100+ to each frameset > at the retail level. I don't have experience with 2TT or diagonal tube > frames, but I do have experience to suggest a 1-1/8" threadless system > feels MUCH sturdier under load than does a bike with a 1" threaded system > on otherwise similar frames. > > As for disc brakes, I prefer the way hydraulics feel and self-adjust, but > sometimes sacrificing the drop bar is too much, so I go mechanical. The > good ones all work, when set up properly. > > On Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:29:35 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote: >> >> This thread started out talking about a "budget Riv...". I realize >> it's hard to see how a few extra tabs, etc., to handle discs could >> impact the cost too much, and of course Rivs come with plenty of ways >> to hang on racks & fenders. However, I heard Dave Moulton speak >> (years ago when he was still building frames) and he made the point >> that it was difficult to justify to his customers the additional cost >> for adding various eyelets, rack mounts, etc., that tourists demand & >> racers don't. More fiddly bits can really up the cost a surprising >> amount. >> >> If Grant decided to add disc brake fittings, I would expect it to be >> on the $2,000 frames, esp. the Atlantis & Bombadil. I've only ridden >> disc braked bikes a couple of times and was impressed. My Atlantis >> now has V-brakes (replaced Tektro 720 cantis) which I like a lot but >> would go for a disc brake option. Braking changes a lot when you load >> up the bike with its own weight & go whistling down long hills. >> >> Of course, Riv went thru a big inventory reduction end of last year, >> so I wouldn't look for them to embrace stocking yet another kind of >> hub, brake, levers, etc., plus the frame redesign work to offer >> discs. In any case, it's always fun to speculate The Next Big >> Thing. >> >> dougP >> >> On Sep 6, 10:29 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > It's certainly true that there's seldom, if ever, a "screaming need for >> > discs". But we're pretty far down the road past "screaming need" for >> ANY of >> > the gadgetry we chat about in this forum. I personally know a number of >> > people who do not consider worthwhile any bike innovation that isn't >> > included on a 1950s English 3sp. I've ridden old 3-speeds plenty, and I >> see >> > the charm, but occasionally I think the technologies developed over the >> > ensuing half-century have earned a place in my 21st Century >> bicycle-centric >> > life. >> > >> > IMO, a sturdy, fat-tire Riv with capability to handle BOTH >> > cantilevers/v-brakes and discs would be a neat thing - sort of a >> prettier >> > functional-equivalent to the Surly Troll or Ogre. I think it would >> broaden >> > the appeal to potential customers who appreciate Riv's aesthetic >> stylings >> > and general approach, but aren't committed to using the same types of >> parts >> > mountain bikers were stuck with 25 years ago. Obviously, the true retro >> > connoisseurs will scoff at the superfluous disc brake tabs they'd never >> use >> > in a million years, but the scoffers will be offset by those who'll >> embrace >> > the added versatility. I count myself among the "embracers of >> versatility", >> > by the way. >> > >> > I'm not saying disc brakes are 100% necessary at all, but some >> concession >> > to modernity and, more importantly, diversity in the product line, >> would >> > seem to be a good thing for Riv. Otherwise, it seems like we'll have >> > another heavy-duty Riv frame that competes for the same seemingly >> limited >> > pool of customers who are considering the Atlantis, Hunqapillar, >> Bombadil, >> > Hillborne, etc. Something as simple as disc tabs would be a standout >> among >> > the excellent, but overlapping frames that are already available, and >> > would, I think, make a splash among a whole new pool of potential >> customers. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:04:45 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote: >> > >> > > Seems to me for a budget bike that is almost certainly would be >> heavier >> > > than the upmarket Rivs, discs will mean extra weight and expense with >> > > little benefit for most riders. >> > >> > > Most people ride on pavement or hard pack trails and then usually >> when the >> > > weather is fine. In those conditions, decent rim brakes provide all >> the >> > > stopping power any rider will ever need. Some ride on pavement in >> inclement >> > > weather where discs have some advantages over rims. But not so much >> that >> > > there is a screaming need for discs. >> > >> > > Discs are markedly better off road and on long distance adventure >> > > touring. Neither Riv's niche. >> > >> > > On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 12:42:00 PM UTC-5, Jim Thill - >> Hiawatha >> > > Cyclery wrote: >> > >> > >> It seems moderately necessary to point out that there's nothing >> specific >> > >> to a frame that's made for hydraulic disc brakes that is different >> than on >> > >> a frame made for cable disc brakes. Therefore, IF Riv makes a bike >> for disc >> > >> brakes, which seems only a tiny bit likely IMO, there's no need for >> any of >> > >> us to be forced into one type of brake or another. >> > >> > >> I like hydraulic brakes. I've been using several models of Avid >> > >> hydraulics for about 3 years now, and I've never had one single >> problem >> > >> with them. They are, for all practical purposes, self-adjusting and >> never >> > >> seem to make any superfluous noise. It is true, however, that using >> > >> hydraulic brakes does limit brake lever options. Think of the >> hydraulic >> > >> brake/lever as a single unit, rather than the mix and match >> experience of >> > >> cable-actuated systems. This is a mix-and-match-centric group, I >> realize. >> > >> > >> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:37:17 PM UTC-5, Montclair BobbyB >> wrote: >> > >> > >>> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic >> disc >> > >>> brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's >> (the older >> > >>> style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted >> brake lines >> > >>> or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super >> dependable, way >> > >>> more dependable than rim brakes! And even the best-adjusted >> cable-actuated >> > >>> disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics. The price has come >> way >> > >>> down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with >> cable >> > >>> discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in >> all kinds >> > >>> of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow). THEY STOP >> in all >> > >>> kinds of weather! >> > >> > >>> I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would >> > >>> require a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section >> of the >> > >>> fork). This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks >> > >>> elegant. Then again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty >> in a >> > >>> disc version.. Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully >> curved 29er >> > >>> disc fork (the Willits WOW). I love the look of rim brakes, but >> > >>> performance wise there's simply no contest between rim and disc >> brakes. >> > >> > >>> Peace, >> > >>> BB >> > >> > >>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote: >> > >> > >>>> I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. >> > >>>> Mechanical ones.- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > - Show quoted text - >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/dPGEsIOrU-wJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
