At an Authority Control Interest Group meeting some ALA's back, LC's Lynn El-Hoshy noted that subject authorities for animals are actually undifferentiated. For example, there's only one subject authority for "Lassie (Dog)" which covers all individual dogs named "Lassie." There's also a separate subject heading for "Lassie (Fictitious character)," so there could actually be three levels to this--Sneaky Pie Brown as an undifferentiated name for cats, as a fictional character, and as an authorial individual.
Arf! Arf! What's that Lassie? Timmy's fallen in the well, and you've written this book about it? Stephen On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Adam L. Schiff <asch...@u.washington.edu> wrote: > Keith, > > I don't think that all of the real-life dog and cat subjects in LCSH were > established for them as creators/contributors to works. I suspect that most > of them were established for works about them rather than by them. > > Adam > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Adam L. Schiff > Principal Cataloger > University of Washington Libraries > Box 352900 > Seattle, WA 98195-2900 > (206) 543-8409 > (206) 685-8782 fax > asch...@u.washington.edu > http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Keith R. Trimmer wrote: > >> Adam, >> >> Thanks for the comments. I immediately agreed with you about the 500s (I >> was thinking of pseudonymns like Ellery Queen), but wondering about users >> who under AACR2 are directed to Rita when they search for Sneaky, but under >> RDA would not be informed of any link between the two. In this instance, >> they would find Rita's name inside the actual books and on bib records, >> should they wish to explore other titles she has authored on her own, but >> the authority file would make no such connection.) >> >> Since the LCPS allows for establishing non-human entities as authors, then >> 'Millie's book / as dictated to Barbara Bush' would presumably be >> recataloged with Millie as 100 (and Barbara as 700), and "Millie (Dog)" >> would move out of the subject authority file where she's a 150 and into the >> name authority file. I presume that means all of the 129 other dogs >> currently established as 150s would need to be changed to 100s as well, yes? >> Surely if dogs and cats can be established as authors, then all headings >> for dogs and cats would need to move to the name authority file... >> >> Later, >> kt >> >> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Adam L. Schiff wrote: >> >>> Yes, that sounds about right to me Keith. Unless the books somehow >>> indicate that Sneaky Pie is the predominant creator (through typography for >>> example), the first named creator would be used as part of the authorized >>> access point for the work, which would translated into a 100 field for Rita >>> Mae and a 700 added entry for Sneaky Pie. >>> >>> Whether the authority record for Rita Mae gets linked via a 500 to the >>> authority record for Sneaky Pie (and vice versa) is an interesting question, >>> but I think the answer is no. We don't normally link authority records for >>> two persons who co-author a work. And this is not a case where Sneaky Pie >>> is an alternate identity of Rita Mae. Sneaky's an actual non-human being. >>> There IS a relationship between the two but at present we don't have >>> relationship designators establish to record the relationship between owner >>> and pet. (Neither do we record relationships between spouses, siblings, >>> parents/children, etc. in our authority records). So I think the answer to >>> you question is that Sneaky Pie gets removed from the name authority for >>> Rita Mae, and gets his (her?) own authority record with no 500 references >>> between them. >>> >>> Adam >>> >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>> Adam L. Schiff >>> Principal Cataloger >>> University of Washington Libraries >>> Box 352900 >>> Seattle, WA 98195-2900 >>> (206) 543-8409 >>> (206) 685-8782 fax >>> asch...@u.washington.edu >>> http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Keith R. Trimmer wrote: >>> >>>> So under RDA, the authority record for Rita Mae Brown gets changed and >>>> one 400 for Sneaky Pie Brown becomes a 500 because we now need a new >>>> authority record for her cat, since they co-wrote the Mrs. Murphy mysteries >>>> together. The other 400 would be moved from Rita Mae's record to the new >>>> one >>>> for Sneaky Pie. Right? >>>> >>>> And on all of the bib records, they'd still be entered under Rita Mae, >>>> since her name comes first on the title page, and Sneaky Pie gets an added >>>> entry.. >>>> >>>> Keith Trimmer >>>> Head, Serials, Music and Japanese Cataloging Section >>>> USC Libraries >>>> Los Angeles >>>> >>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Adam L. Schiff wrote: >>>> >>>>> Of course Superman and Clark Kent are only subject headings. Have they >>>>> created any resources like Dr. Snoopy has? ;-) >>>>> >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>>> Adam L. Schiff >>>>> Principal Cataloger >>>>> University of Washington Libraries >>>>> Box 352900 >>>>> Seattle, WA 98195-2900 >>>>> (206) 543-8409 >>>>> (206) 685-8782 fax >>>>> asch...@u.washington.edu >>>>> http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Deborah Tomares wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Here's the thing, though. Snoopy doesn't have the profession of >>>>>> author, >>>>>> because as we all know, he didn't really write the book. He is a >>>>>> fictitious >>>>>> dog, lacking in digits and English language necessary to put out the >>>>>> work >>>>>> he "authored" (even in the cartoons, he never speaks). So I don't >>>>>> believe >>>>>> we can, or should, apply the same rules and standards to him that we >>>>>> do to >>>>>> real, live, preferably human authors. >>>>>> >>>>>> And yes--I would have one heading for both Superman and Clark Kent. >>>>>> And it >>>>>> would be a subject heading, not a personal name heading. That's where >>>>>> I >>>>>> believe fictitious characters belong, and where most users would >>>>>> expect to >>>>>> find them. As in my Spiderman example before, I don't think it would >>>>>> benefit anyone, cataloger or user, to have to constantly revise and >>>>>> sift >>>>>> through the changeable natures/personae/call-them-what-you-will of >>>>>> fictitious characters. Because they aren't real, so aren't bound by >>>>>> rules >>>>>> of reality, to attempt to impose reality upon them seems to me wrong >>>>>> and >>>>>> not useful. >>>>>> >>>>>> Deborah Tomaras, NACO Coordinator >>>>>> Librarian II >>>>>> Western European Languages Team >>>>>> New York Public Library >>>>>> Library Services Center >>>>>> 31-11 Thomson Ave. >>>>>> Long Island City, N.Y. 11101 >>>>>> (917) 229-9561 >>>>>> dtoma...@nypl.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Disclaimer: Alas, my ideas are merely my own, and not indicative of >>>>>> New >>>>>> York Public Library policy. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Peter Schouten <pschou...@ingressus.nl> >>>>>> >>>>>> To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: 04/27/2011 12:51 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Dr. Snoopy >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent by: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description >>>>>> and Access <RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Unless one assumes that Dr. Snoopy is somehow different from plain >>>>>> >>>>>> Snoopy, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and would advocate a series of maybe linked authorities for each >>>>>> >>>>>> differing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> guise of a character. Mr. Schouten, for example, claims that: "even >>>>>>> fictional characters are entitled to their own Personae". But I would >>>>>> >>>>>> argue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> against this route for multiple reasons. Fictitious character cannot >>>>>> >>>>>> truly >>>>>>> >>>>>>> have professions, so they aren't really different "persons" despite >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> guise; >>>>>> >>>>>> But in this example, the publication presents Dr. Snoopy as the >>>>>> author, >>>>>> which causes the fictional character to have the profession of author. >>>>>> >>>>>> Would you also have 1 heading for both Clark Kent and Superman? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Schouten >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist Technical Services, University Libraries University of Minnesota 160 Wilson Library 309 19th Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55455 Ph: 612-625-2328 Fx: 612-625-3428
