Hi Allan;
You didn't mention the DC load center used, but that would effect the
decision, as well as the relative wall space. I've found customers were
very happy with an E Panel setup, as they gained floor/ wall space with
the upgrade as well. I'm tired of still working in old Trace DC 250
boxes, if I don't have to.
For inverters, my vote would be for the Magnum over the Outback, not
that we've had reliability issues with either, but mainly the bang for
buck factor.
The Magnum has the 120/ 240 vac output, more surge and continuous rating
than an Outback, and the remote is much lower cost and much easier to
use than the MATE 3. I also appreciate that Magnum is policing internet
discounting, while Outback is allowing an "anything goes" pricing
policy, that makes it hard for a reputable installer to compete. Magnum
gets my customers more power for less money, and I can still afford to
offer a service warranty and pay the bills. I think I really starting
moving away from Outback when they advertised for technical support
personnel: "no experience necessary".
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 1/30/2015 6:02 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
Esteemed Wrenches,
This question is prompted by a specific customer's situation, and I
have a question related to this, but I'm mainly using the situation to
ask a broader question.
The specific situation: A customer's Xantrex SW+2524 has been acting
erratically. Fixing the inverter is not the issue; the client is quite
remote, and costs of diagnosis, parts and labor for these legacy units
have gone up enough that the customer has already decided to replace
the unit with a current product. From my perspective, the issues at
hand revolve around how to safely and cleanly install a modern
inverter into a system structured around old equipment.
The specific question: Outback's FX series is the current product that
most readily replaces the SW/SW+ series: it's also 120V in/out, and it
has DC on the right and AC in/out on the left of a horizontally-laid
out unit. However, several times in recent years I have heard
disparaging comments, both here and in private conversations, about
the purported drop in quality of Outback's inverters and controllers
since Alpha bought them, but specifically because units, or parts of
units, are now made in China, rather than in the U.S. What I want to
know, please, are answers to two+ questions: 1) what's the real scoop?
what is now made where? and 2) what actual experiences, specifically
product failures, have any of you had that directly relate to changes
directly attributable to overseas production? In other words, how much
of this is real and how much is rumor?
The bigger question (and this issue will come up frequently in the
coming years): the SW+, like the SW before it, operates at 120V AC on
both input and output. More and more modern battery-based inverters
input and output split-phase 120/240V AC. When should I hesitate to
replace a 120V legacy inverter with a 120/240V unit?
Among larger whole-house single inverters, Outback's FX and VFX units
operate at 120V, but these are older models. SMA's Sunny Island is
120V only, but this is generally considered a weakness in typical SI
installations, and these expensive units don't adapt as well as
replacements in older home systems. Magnum's MS4024 is available in
either configuration. Outback's Radian and Schneider's XW and Conext
SW are only available as 120-240 units.
Here are the issues that I see:
Don't do it if a backup generator is 120V AC-only. It will work, but
is hard on the inverters, as all charging current will come in on one
leg of the inverter's AC input. Fortunately, relatively few generators
are 120V-only; pretty much just the smaller inverter-generators. Most
cheaper gennies are 240V, and either run through a step-down balancing
transformer (which would be taken out with the old 120V inverter) or
run out of balance. Many better portable generators have a 120/120-240
switch, making it necessary to only replace a cable and plug to add a
second hot conductor.
Also, most older AC switchgear, such as QO403 inverter bypass
switches, are set up for single pole breakers, and would thus require
replacement, and reworking in general on the AC side to handle two hot
input and output conductors.
But once the jumper between the two hot legs is removed in the AC main
panel, and two hots are connected, making the panel 120-240, what are
the concerns that I might not have anticipated? Are there any hidden
dangers, or situations where this change could cause problems,
especially in AC distribution?
Thanks in advance. I hope that I don't regret posting this late on a
Friday...
Allan
--
*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*
**
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