I spoke to midnite and they said they got a gfi 100 amp, l dont recall if it was din tail or bolt on Jerry
On Oct 12, 2016 12:53 PM, "Roy Butler" <r...@four-winds-energy.com> wrote: > Drake, > > That's funny, William and I were having that discussion earlier today > about those old DC enclosures. > There was no need to sign your work because you left plenty of DNA behind > for identification...... > > Roy Butler > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® > NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer > Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC > 8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com > > Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, > a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > > On 10/12/2016 6:44 PM, Drake wrote: > > Right, the old Trace DC cabinets were bloody knuckle boxes for sure. > Things have come a long way since those days, and still have a ways to go. > > > At 02:36 PM 10/12/2016, you wrote: > > Drake: >  > Your point brings to mind the evolution of the BOS cabinet: >  > 1.   In the good old days of the SW inverter, the DC cabinet was all > you got, and it was grossly inadequate. Off-the-shelf load centers were > the only choice for the AC side. AC bypassing was a relatively new > concept but it could be done. > 2.   Prior to having an approved inverter, Outback manufactured a > brilliant system of BOS that fit the SW, the DR and the future FX series of > inverters (the PS series). I believe BoB Gudgel is responsible for this > design and it was genius. > 3.   Even with improved BOS, there are the shortcomings we have been > discussing. There is always room for improvement and I am hoping our > discussion drives more of that. >  > I too believe that plug-on AC breakers are the superior alternative. > They are cheap and readily available. Generally two load centers are > required, one for generator fed and one for inverter fed. GTBB systems > might call for a third panel: utility fed. Bypass is the only issue that > calls for considerations out of the ordinary for standard load center > installations. Most panel manufacturers provide limited interlock > methods. Where we need to interlock more than two breakers we fab our own > slides. Sure, they are not “listed†but they are a simple mechanical > device and I am comfortable using them. >  > There are some challenges to overcome when integrating specialized > inverter equipment with standard electrical components. For example, > connecting standard load centers to an FX inverter is problematic because > the FX KOs are so far from the mounting surface. This is the part of the > work that I enjoy immensely. We really want to make installations that > are reliable, efficient to install and look good. I have a friend in the > entertainment industry that once said, “aesthetically pleasing > installation are more reliable…† True words. > >  > Thanks for you input. >  > William >  >  > [image: Gradient Cap_mini] > Lic 773985 > millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> > 805-438-5600 >  > *From:* RE-wrenches [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of *Drake > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 12, 2016 6:36 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner >  > DC breaker systems should be designed similar to AC bolt on breaker > systems that are used for many commercial and industrial applications. > > The explanation for the fact that these don't exist has to do with the > cost of designing and listing the equipment. There is no technical reason > that a DC enclosure needs to be any more difficult to wire than an off the > shelf AC box. > > The AC breakers in any solar enclosure should certainly be standard snap > on breakers. Once the power has been inverted to AC, there is no reason > to require anything other than standard code requirements. > > Drake Chamberlin > > > > > > *Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified > Solar PV 740-448-7328 <740-448-7328> *http://athens-electric.com/ > > At 11:31 PM 10/10/2016, you wrote: > > My students we just today complaining about the access to wires on the > panel mount breakers. The lug idea with separators might be a fix. It > definitely needs to be done differently. In class We added another inverter > to our package and trying to install another 175A breaker was a pain. We > have a few other DC breakers in there already. The whole cabinet is > basically inaccessible. > > Jesse Dahl > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > IBEW Local 292 - Electrician > Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 10, 2016, at 9:40 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com > > wrote: > > > You might want to look at the square D QO breaker line some are dc rated > and voltage rated and are panel mounted. > Jerry > > On Oct 10, 2016 3:00 PM, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote: > I†ll chime in here.< > Yes the GSLC is a piece of junk. > However it is UL listed for the job. And while you could put together > something that would work with Airpax breakers together, but it wouldn’t > be UL. > > What I do is to swap out all the wires to Arctic ultra flex. This allows > much better movement of the wires with significantly less stress on the > terminals.  And if you want to not attach wires to the back of the > breakers then you can and I’ve seen outback do it,it, install lay in > lugs facing outwards so you can use a screwdriver or allen key on them. > Allows for installation and removal of wire without removal of the breaker > or the plate/breakers. With thimbles of course. And I can’t find them > but I know they make them, shielields that fit between each breaker so the > lay in lugs are insulated. > jay > peltz power > > > > On Oct 10, 2016, at 4:40 PM, William Miller <will...@millersolar.com > > wrote: > Chris: >  > Thank you for the reply. I think you misunderstand me. We always use > the GSLC cabinets. I just don’t like the design conceptept that > clutters the cabinet with AC and DC breakers that are difficult to access > and block other components. See photo below of a prewired GSLC Cabinet we > were asked to work in. Not a good scenario. >  > We have created an installation standard using the GSLC that minimizes the > problems inherent with the design. We run all AC leads to adjacent load > centers and we try to minimize the DC breakers in the cabinet. It is our > goal to completely eliminate all breakers from the removable dead-front. > I think it is pretty self-explanatory why one would not prefer to make > connections in a hard to reach location. >  > Our goal is to constantly improve our installation procedures to create > better, safer and more efficient installations. >  > Also, I don’t need someone to instructuct me on how to make a > “finished†looking ing install. If you are familiar with my work you > know it is as clean as it gets. Review my web site. Below is but one > example of one of our installs. >  > And lastly, “suck it up†is nos not a very complimentary phrase. > Please, let’s ks keep it professional. >  > Sincerely, >  > William Miller >  > <image007.jpg> > Figure 1 Factory wired GSLC >  > <image008.jpg> > Figure 2 Miller Solar installed GSLC.. >  > <image009.jpg> > Lic 773985 > millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> > 805-438-5600 >  > From: RE-wrenches [ <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Chris Mason > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 3:40 PM > To: RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner >  > The GSLC gives the system a nice finished appearance that the customer > will understand. Suck it up and live with the imperfect world we function > in. >  > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 5:55 PM, William Miller <will...@millersolar.com > > wrote: > > Friends: >  > I am looking for a PV recombiner. I need to accept the outputs from 3 > remote PV Combiners, send those outputs through GFP circuit breakers, into > charge controllers, back thorough breaker, into a bus bar, through a main > breaker and onto a large battery bank. >  > I am using 2 Outback Radian inverters, but I refuse to install DC breakers > on their dead-front because wiring to studs facing away from the front is > an inferior design. Furthermore, I see no need to run PV circuits through > the GSLC cabinets. >  > I looked at the Midnite MNDC15 but again, these use panel mounted breakers > with studs on the back. >  > Anyone know of a more thoughtfully designed PV recombiner? >  > Thanks in advance, >  > William Miller >  >  > <image003.jpg> > Lic 773985 > millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> > 805-438-5600 >  > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > >  >  > -- > Chris Mason > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > Solar Design Engineer > Generac Generators Industrial technician >  > www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com/> > 264.235.5670 > 869.662.5670 > Skype: netconcepts > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > >  > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > >  > > [image: Avast logo] > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >  > Content-Type: image/jpeg; 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