Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers

Fri, 07 Sep 2018 08:37:20 -0700

Yep, I wouldn't even consider roof mounts 15 years ago. Fall danger, leaks, I'm an electrician not a roof jockey....   Of course the mounts, racking, etc have improved vastly, and now I have a substantial ladder collection.  I still prefer a good ol' pole mount for installation, I just can't justify them as much anymore.
And as far as the yard art  aspect of trackers: they are indeed fun to watch.  All day long the sun would pop out from behind the clouds, and then you run watch the tracker catch back up.  I use to have trackers that were making power at 5:30 am, very exciting as well, but just not that practical. After replacing the third drive motor in 5 years, I started manually setting them to be fixed arrays. They used to be fairly sensitive to lightning, I'm sure they're better now. 

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 9/7/18 5:56 AM, RE Ellison wrote:

Amazing what the difference of $10.00 a watt to a $1.00 a watt for 
panels makes in the design !

Still don’t like poking holes in a perfectly good roof !

Just another set of random thoughts,
Bob Ellison


On Sep 7, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Ray <r...@solarray.com 
<mailto:r...@solarray.com>> wrote:



Allan;


That's the same math I've done, and tracking off grid just doesn't 
pencil much of the time  There is software that can model tracking vs 
fixed. If you run these calcs and pay attention to the critical 
winter months, its just not there.  Also even when tracking might be 
a consideration, most people do not have a dawn to dusk perfect solar 
window, so shading starts reducing the benefits as well.  I found it 
hard enough to not shade a fixed array, so tracking is certainly not 
adding much in a tight valley with trees.



Its funny how my designs have shifted from tracking back in the 80s 
and 90s, to fixed pole mounts set due south with adjustable tilt, to 
now I'm running PV Watts and seeing that roof mounts at imperfect 
tilt and azimuth can still have the most energy for the money: Just 
add more modules.



That's funny too, because if you had shown me a roof array like that 
20 years ago, I would have been poo pooing it for days.(That's not 
even close to south!!...)  Our racking and tracking choices have 
changed significantly now that PV is under $1/ watt.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 9/6/18 9:06 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:

What am I missing here, Bill? If the tracker costs $10,000 (plus 
installation) to carry 24 modules, that's $416 per module, which is 
more than the cost of the modules themselves. I don't get the point 
of doing this. It almost sounds like consumer vanity - "Folks do 
like to watch the slow dance of the modules".

How can tracking be justified?

Allan Sindelar
Sindelar Solar
505 780-2738


On Sep 6, 2018, at 1:26 PM, Bill Hennessy <b...@berkssolar.com 
<mailto:b...@berkssolar.com>> wrote:



Chris--


We installed two 24-module AllEarth dual-axis trackers at the 
request of a homeowner two years ago--"I like companies that are 
from Vermont."
inspite of a higher cost as compared to a ground mount equivalent w 
Krinner groundscrews.



You can buy either the tracker alone or complete kits. The 
24-module tracker is about $10,000. The concrete base was fairly 
easy to install. I think the hole was 4x4x4 with rebar crosshatch. 
The frame is assembled on the ground and lifted to the pole (you 
need about a18-foot lift). Our mini excavator was barely tall 
enough. We did the frame layout and assembly on the excavator 
trailer and it worked well. If you go to Vermont, they have a free 
two-day training program where you assemble a tracker.



One of the trackers had an early issue with a stuck hydraulic 
valve. Warranty service was prompt and knowledgeable and we haven't 
had issues since. We did have to upsize the Fronius inverters. My 
design mistake. I typically oversize the array to the inverter, but 
in the spring, the arrays were always clipping.


Folks do like to watch the slow dance of the modules.
Bill Hennessy
Berks Solar, LLC
371 Centennial Rd
Mertztown, PA 19539

o 610 682 4300
c 484 560 4666
NABCEP certified installer
PA contractor #44411
www.berkssolar.com <http://www.berkssolar.com>


------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* "ch...@oasismontana.com <mailto:ch...@oasismontana.com>" 
<ch...@oasismontana.com <mailto:ch...@oasismontana.com>>
*To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>

*Sent:* Thursday, September 6, 2018 3:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers


Hi Folks:I appreciate the input but I am looking for TYPES of 
trackers that you may be selling (and yes, I told him about adding 
more & cheaper solar modules than investing in a tracker, but it’s 
the customer’s decision).Zomeworks is not what the client wants; I 
would prefer dual axis; the customer’s in north central CA with a 
good resource.I say go with Array Technologies but I would think 
there must be something new and improved by now.

--Chris Daum/Oasis Montana

*From:*RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> *On Behalf Of *Dana

*Sent:* Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:18 AM

*To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>

*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Trackers
I second this observation.

I now live again off grid in a narrow N-S canyon in south central 
Idaho. Having limited ground space [thanks to county regs] & not 
wanting roof mounted arrays to have to clear snow from, trackers 
VS. fix top of pole mounts enhance my output & they reduced the # 
of modules required for my homes projected load design.


  * 6400 watts rated output on 2 Array Tech tracking arrays. Fixed
    would have required 3 arrays & 6-8 more modules. Trackers are
    programed to full vertical in winter to shed overnight snow
    dumps, this saves time & effort in the morning when it’s a
    Powder day! Can’t miss those Powder mornings.
  * 5400 watts per hour in the summer when hot.
  * Up to 8400 watts per hour on a cold winter day. Exactly what I
    needed 31+% additional output with a 4-hour window of sun at
    New Year’s Day. So far, my generator has never started…


*A repeat from a previous RE conversation years ago, I had to see 
for myself &:
Last house in CO, I had [6] 250-watt mod on a tracker & [6] 
250-watt mod on a fixed roof array.
The tracker consistently outproduced the fixed array by 32% 
averaged over the year.
Trackers have their place and advantages. That said, with todays 
$/watt o modules if you have the space fixed is a more 
cost-effective way to proceed.

Signed - A 25-year tracker advocate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc.
*C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com <mailto:d...@solarwork.com>*
Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.biz/>
_"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" _
*P*Please consider the environment before printing this email.

*From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> *On Behalf Of 
*Chris Schaefer

*Sent:* Thursday, September 06, 2018 8:27 AM

*To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>

*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers
To All,

Seen it first hand with existing Northeast offgrid clients that had 
old pole mounts with lots of generator usage during the winter 
months. Added a single 12 module DAT and generator usage was down 
to as little as twice in the entire winter. Others usage was down 
to just a handful of times required from genny. They are great at 
shedding snow. Bottom line is generator usage was cut in most cases 
by 75% or better. I'm a believer here in upstate NY.

Christopher
Chris Schaefer’s
<http://www.solarandwindfx.com/>
/Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
//5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424

www.solarandwindfx.com <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/> ~ E-mail: 
//ch...@solarandwindfx.com <mailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com>/

//

Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who 
are willing to work and give to those who would not."
On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Andrew Truitt <atru...@gmail.com 
<mailto:atru...@gmail.com>> wrote:


    These guys are new but I've heard good things:
    http://www.sulasindustries.com/
    *
    Regards, *
    *Andrew Truitt | DRV <http://dr.ventures/>*
    www.dr.ventures <http://www.dr.ventures/>
    d: 202.486.7507
    NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66
    Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132

    "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I
    prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's
    an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles
    from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about
    8 minutes. And it's wireless!"

    ~William McDonough
    On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:38 PM Sindelar Solar
    <al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>> wrote:

        Bill,
        No, I'm with you on this.Given the the greatest boost (~+/-
        30%) of daily tracking is during the summer and most
        stand-alone applications are winter-peak (where tracking
        adds at best 10-15%), seasonal water pumping is about the
        only time when small-scale tracking is justified over
        simply adding array. Any pumping where the source is slow
        enough that the length of the day becomes an important
        factor, like drip irrigation or a very low yield well or
        spring, is worth looking into. But that's about it in my
        experience.
        Allan

        -- 
        *Allan Sindelar*

        al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
        NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
        New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
        Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
        *505 780-2738 cell*
        On 9/5/2018 5:53 PM, solar1onl...@charter.net
        <mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net> wrote:

            Chris,
            I thought since solar PV prices have come down
            (understatement), is it not more cost effective to buy
            more modules than a tracker? Are there scenarios that
            the above would not ring true? (As I remember, off grid
            water pumping for livestock ponds may still be an
            exception as also, limited space.) Please advise.
            Thanks,
            Bill Loesch
            Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
            314 631 1094
            ----------------------------------------
            From: ch...@oasismontana.com
            <mailto:ch...@oasismontana.com>
            Sent: Wednesday September 5 2018 3:45:25PM
            Dear people:
            What trackers are y’all using nowadays?  I have a
            customer (with a great site) who’s insisting on a
            pair.  We’ve sold Zomeworks and Array Technologies in
            the past, but I know there are more offerings now.
            Thanks for the input!
            Chris Daum
            Oasis Montana Inc.
            406-777-4309 or 4321
            406-777-4309 fax
            www.oasismontana.com <http://www.oasismontana.com/>

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--
Chris Schaefer’s
<http://www.solarandwindfx.com/>
/Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
//5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424

www.solarandwindfx.com <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/> ~ E-mail: 
//ch...@solarandwindfx.com <mailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com>/

//

Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who 
are willing to work and give to those who would not."

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