In the regulatory vacuum that ensued, we now have dozens of unregulated
connectors, no way of knowing what might be on past jobs, confused
installers, nervous customers, while the market they tried to control is
flooded with "MC 4" crimpers on Amazon for $20.
All of this for the main connector used millions of times in almost ALL
Solar installations. I don't blame just the specific manufacturers that
might have benefited briefly from this lack of standards, but all of us
for letting this happen literally right in front of our eyes, and to go
on for over a decade.
The high DC voltages being used by most GT installs these days warrant
serious improvements in our safety standards process.
Arc fault detectors are not the first line of defense, good connections
are.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 9/19/19 5:48 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
Someone previously at AEE tried to get NEMA involved in setting a
standard, but it turned out that they were not getting cooperation
from the mfg, so could not proceed.
Brad
On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:28 PM Bryan Norkunas <br...@pv-cables.com
<mailto:br...@pv-cables.com>> wrote:
Yes, I have seen and have copies of many of these 3^rd party
“compatibility” tests.
*From:*Brian Mehalic [mailto:br...@solarenergy.org
<mailto:br...@solarenergy.org>]
*Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:16 PM
*To:* Bryan Norkunas
*Cc:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch
You say you've seen many of these tests in the past; do you
specifically mean the intermatability test?
Thanks for the info! (And you also really helped me out
identifying some connectors on a problem-job a couple months
back...thanks again!).
Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member
(520) 204-6639
Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org
SEI Professional Services
http://www.seisolarpros.com <http://www.seisolarpros.com>
On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:07 PM Bryan Norkunas
<br...@pv-cables.com <mailto:br...@pv-cables.com>> wrote:
Also note the Intertek testing, I have seen many of these in
the past –
but never one of them tested with 12AWG or 10AWG connectors,
it has always been 14AWG for some reason.
And as a company that specializes in this niche, I can say in
the last 10 years we have never had the request to manufacture
anything smaller than 12AWG when it came to PV Connectors.
*Bryan Norkunas*
br...@pv-cables.com <mailto:br...@pv-cables.com>
Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140
*PV-Cables Inc.*
1155 Redway Drive
PO Box 2562
Redway, CA 95560
(707) 923-3000 office
www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/>
*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf
Of *Bryan Norkunas
*Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:57 PM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mDescription:
Description: cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470ismatch
Ray,
Solarworld went from using MC4 connectors, then to Kostal KSK4
connectors, then Amphenol H4, and finally Amphenol UTX connectors.
The cross mating with the KSK4 connectors had the most issues
and we assembled a lot of adapters for end users and installers.
Back in 2016, we were talking with Solarworld about the
Amphenol UTX/H4 to MC4 connections failing. (I attached the
Compatibility letter that Solarworld was providing their
customers, as well as the Amphenol Compatibility documents )
Back then, I was mating connectors and grinding away the
plastic housings to determine the terminal overlap of cross
mated connectors.
Here are my notes from back then:
The overlap on an MC4 to MC4 connection = 0.305”
The overlap on an MC4 to UTX connection = 0.265”
A lot of the older H4 to MC4 issues were end users not fully
seating MC4 female to the H4 male. It takes some force to get
them to fit completely and a nightmare to disconnect if needed.
These tended to fail in higher heat or higher humidity
environments. The picture below is one that wasn’t fully seated.
cid:image003.jpg@01D18A5E.48835320
Hanwa Q Cell have used many different connectors on their
modules over the years.
Jinko modules usually have Jinko connectors in my small amount
of experience with them. Jinko still does not offer a
crimping tool for their connectors, that I know of and still
only UL for 20A. We do little work with these connectors, so
my input here might be outdated.
Lastly, I have seen a few larger distributing customers of
ours doing good work on obtaining the connector/module info
from module manufactures, prior to placing their blanket
orders. In turn, the module mfg.’s are typically supplying
them (or sometimes us) connectors for homerun cables,
adapters, etc. And finally the end customer is knowing what
connectors on the modules they are purchasing, with the
availability of getting the correct connectors/homerun cables
needed to complete the install.
*Bryan Norkunas*
br...@pv-cables.com <mailto:br...@pv-cables.com>
Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140
*PV-Cables Inc.*
1155 Redway Drive
PO Box 2562
Redway, CA 95560
(707) 923-3000 office
www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/>
*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf
Of *Ray
*Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:08 PM
*To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch
I did some research on the modules we've used over the past
15+ years to see if we had potential mismatched connector
issues. We've used Amphenol H4 connects since the advent of
locking solar connectors. We had assumed they were compatible
back then.
Solarworld switched from MC4 to H4 somewhere back 2013 to
2015. I didn't even notice. SW 280s through SW 300 looks like
H4, while SW 270s and back to the long, skinny SW 165s are MC
4, but its not that clear, as I found a spec sheet for an SW
260 with an H4.
_Conclusion: Basically we can't be sure._
Hanwa Q cell, looks like their 60 cell mods run the MC 4 or MC
4 compatible (whatever that means) while their 72 cell mods
apparently use the H4/ UTX
_Conclusion: Total confusion in the field._
Jinko? They don't even list the connector type on any of the
spec sheets I have for the past few years.
_Conclusion: No way for a designer/ installer to know
beforehand what connector to use in the field._
Basically this is a total break down of responsibility for the
solar industry; a complete lack of standards. Why hasn't an
organization like NEMA stepped in to standardize the
connectors like all AC connectors have been, going back for
over a century?
I made a very wrong assumption that when our industry adopted
the MC 4/ H4 locking type connectors that they were
standardized and compatible. I can only hope that my systems
running at relatively low voltage (<150 vdc) will not have
issues.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 9/4/19 4:26 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
Just to add, l had a lab and l did testing on connectors,
we found that most of the aec issues were under low light.
This appeared to be when iradiance was low and once the
irads went up the issue was less likely, this was because
the Male-female contact was not tight enough and under
lower power it would arc instead of heating up and
expanding. I used a IR Camera but could see little change
due to the plastic.
Then l used an IV curve tester and shaded partially shaded
the module after several repeat testing the connectors got
warm. I would suggest making your own connector pull out
tool to check the contact pressures. This is where you may
find your problem components. It appears that early am
testing had lower volts and the inverter pushed the
current up and causes the loose connector to fail due to
the lower volts.
This testing was done both in the field 1/2 meg and lab
testing results were very close.
The modules used for testing were Trina and the field
inverters were ABB and Fronius
Sorry for the long note
Jerry
On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 2:52 PM Steven Lawrence
<lawrenceste...@gmail.com
<mailto:lawrenceste...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Everyone,
Just to add to this, I've seen multiple melted
connectors that couldn't be traced to anything other
than mixing manufacturers. I've seen some connectors
where you can clearly seeing arcing on the pin itself
and nowhere else. The crimps and the housing were
fine. I've postulated it had to do with slightly
different metals expanding/contracting at different
rates. I've made it a very hard rule at my company to
never mix manufacturers of connectors. When we order
modules, we specifically have the PO call out the
manufacturer of the connector (can't just be "MC4
compatible"). Typically we order that same brand of
connectors, but sometimes we end up getting 6" jumpers
made by a harness company (there are some connectors
out there that can only work with #12 wire. Can't use
them on #10 homeruns). It's drastically cut down on
the number of melted connectors. We've averaged maybe
1 or 2 on 6MW projects over a year with this hard
requirement versus 100+ we had on a 1MW rooftop
project that mixed multiple manufacturers.
Steven Lawrence
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