Hi Jason - I'm not familiar with the acronym AGS, but it will do solar curtailment via frequency shifting. The tech doc says that the generator will turn on once SOC reaches a lower threshold and remain on to power loads and charge the Powerwall(s). So, it is designed for automatic generator operation. I haven't personally installed an off grid Powerwall system although we do have one in the final permitting stage.
Yea, the ESS market in general is really heating up with lots of cool products hitting the market. The Microgrid Interconnect Device (MID) such as the Tesla Gateway, Enphase Empower smart switch, and SolarEdge Backup Interface is a particular game changer. For anyone who hasn't read this article by Bill Brooks, I highly recommend it: https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/features/renewables/connection-of-normal-and-emergency-power-sources-for-homes/ August On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:15 PM Jason Szumlanski < ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > Hi August, > > To clarify, will the Gateway do AGS, or is this for manual charging only? > If they get this right, it could be a gamechanger for people who want > a hybrid system with generator auxiliary (whether whole-house generator or > portable perhaps). The big problem in Florida is after a storm you need air > conditioning, but running that off Powerwalls can be a challenge due to > cost and/or capacity. On the other hand, burning limited fuel for varying > loads isn't a really efficient use of a generator. A hybrid system makes a > lot of sense here, especially for clients that have natural gas at their > home already. > > Enphase has an edge I think because they can fire up a generator and have > the Envoy tell the microinverters to cease production. Of course, this > functionality is not yet released on the software, but they have generator > lugs build into their Gateway, so you know they are thinking along these > lines. > > Things are getting very interesting with these "AC Batteries." > > Jason Szumlanski > > > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 5:30 PM August Goers <aug...@luminalt.com> wrote: > >> Tesla released new offgrid design and installation instructions April of >> this year. As a Powerwall dealer, we're under NDA not to share the >> document, but the Powerwall will now charge from the generator when it hits >> a certain SOC threshold if the PV is not running. I'm not sure about that >> caveat of not allowing the generator to run while the PV is running. It >> seems like there are plenty of times where there is low solar production >> and you want to fire up the generator to top off the batteries. They also >> have a low state of charge mode when SOC reaches 10%, that the Powerwall >> will turn on during the day for short periods of time just to test to see >> if the PV system will couple up to charge the battery. This AC-coupling >> method of reviving the battery may or not work depending on loads and PV >> sizing / production levels. >> >> One limitation to the NMC battery technology is that it doesn't work well >> particularly in the cold, so offrige Powerwall batteries should be >> installed in the heated envelope of the home. >> >> August >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:09 AM Jason Szumlanski < >> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >>> The Powerwall 2 is now supported by Tesla in an off-grid configuration >>> from what I heard. It is AC coupled. It cannot interact with generators >>> whatsoever. You can't charge the battery with a generator and you can't AC >>> couple a generator to it. If you want a generator, you put a transfer >>> switch on the load side of the gateway device. If the battery dies, the >>> generator starts. The generator powers loads, but does not recharge the >>> battery because it becomes isolated via the transfer switch. The big >>> downside I see with that is there would be a loss of power to the loads >>> until the generator fires up. I don't see a way around that. >>> >>> I'm not a Tesla certified installer, but I have seen some of these >>> batteries out in the wild and that's just the way it is - it's an >>> integrated unit. I'd call it an "AC Battery," kind of like an AC PV Module. >>> To answer another point in this thread, if the battery reaches its LBCO it >>> can only recharge with PV in an off-grid scenario. It reserves battery >>> capacity to turn on occasionally to see if there is PV input. At least >>> that's how I understand it to work. I don't know what would happen if the >>> battery actually reached 0%. Seems risky. I'm not sure how you would "jump >>> start" it. Publicly available details seem scant on this, but there are a >>> few system owners talking about it if you dig deep on the Interwebs. >>> >>> It will be interesting to see what Enphase comes up with. There are >>> generator inputs on their Ensemble system, but no software support for this >>> yet. The concept is very similar to Tesla in that there is a gateway >>> device, essentially a transfer switch with battery controls inside. The >>> Gateway acts as the AC point of coupling for everything to tie in together. >>> >>> I'm not sure why you couldn't use a generator to charge the Powerwall >>> battery the same way you would charge with the grid. However, you would >>> need a way to disable PV AC coupling when the generator is running. I can >>> see how Enphase would be able to do this pretty easily. But Tesla is clear >>> in that they do not allow a generator to interact with the Powerwall in any >>> way. >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 11:43 AM Hilton Dier III <hiltond...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings, Wrenches, >>>> >>>> I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla >>>> Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and it >>>> appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input version, but >>>> apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be agnostic about technology, >>>> and I'd be willing to subcontract a Tesla-approved installer if, in fact, >>>> this was the best solution. >>>> >>>> Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV >>>> system? Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing? >>>> What is the lead time on these? >>>> >>>> Many Thanks, >>>> >>>> Hilton >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Hilton Dier III >>>> Missisquoi River Hydro >>>> Renewable Energy Design >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/e08736cc469a15af4e34ef4f94286778669a053b?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=36ab1a7ea1fc4edd> >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/1085712bd0d13ee7a2ecebdeb3eb35a83aa82096?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Fpipermail%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=bb275c478ece50c7> >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/c5e8b2f38638309c0c4ac176e2127f2f791cde84?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.re-wrenches.org%2Fetiquette.htm&userId=1613865&signature=028a68247af86fd4> >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/f1e8cd690187b960d4182ebd2885ae1d79378464?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.members.re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=f890516e7f8739c1> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/8e922be1f6000369905afcaee714586a733aa8e3?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=8f514ba3d8a0af47> >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/9904e8a5188ed3ae74128d8f411fcd3e0cec594f?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Fpipermail%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=1f2fed191477a0ae> >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/dba8d250ee68bc85a7af35a1c4150d5e015053d3?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.re-wrenches.org%2Fetiquette.htm&userId=1613865&signature=b43b02e7f969759c> >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/c1f4a53f151ace837a1c9e64d3b204419b09f036?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.members.re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=5444852883719702> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/d16506640242ed8fe3673a2417e49c0098a545e5?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=19a6b5677c61c8f6> >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/b9ba40f6e3e1a2c79f4cc196555cb77c01d8d671?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Fpipermail%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=ce75a32e921afafa> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/89be08d63e8f166302aae047bd495e032c764b95?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.re-wrenches.org%2Fetiquette.htm&userId=1613865&signature=40385f2deff5af53> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/7cd68d520fd8f5e8ed8e562fa87eb96295f81de8?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.members.re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=73e6c2fd4e97a0c0> >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
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