Graham Young wrote:
>
> It doesn't demonstrate the need for this bill at all. It shows that the
> current measures for dealing with civil unrest area adequate. And if you
> are going to posit a conspiracy you have to explain why 80 or so young
> refugees would put themselves in a position where they are likely to be
> deported back to their country of origin for the benefit of a government
> which is making it difficult for them to migrate.
If you're Ruddock and you want to demonstrate a need for this bill, you
do things that will push emotional young men over the edge. Just like
they will do to the demonstrators in Melbourne on Sept 11.
Do you really think that these young men weighed the consequences or
knew what would happen to them? They seemed to believe that if they
demonstrated they would be given visas. If I were Ruddock and I wanted
to besmirch the reputation of refugees (with proof this time) I would
put out a story like that and then stand back.
One uses the weaknesses of one's enemies.
> I don't believe that there is any chance of any sort of repressive regime
> establishing itself in Australia in the near future. Where is there any
> indication that this might occur?
Then why is there a need for this bill? It hasn't been needed before why
do they need it now?
> You might also like to enlighten me about this dramatic erosion of civil
> liberties that has been occurring. I acknowledge that both sides of
> politics when in government tend to take a tougher view of what is a
> legimitate civil liberty. For example Nick Bolkus tried to significantly
> curtail the right to political free speech and was over-turned by the High
> Court. And while the ABN might be a potential threat to civil liberties, it
> was Hawke who championed the Australia Card. But I have not seen any
> dramatic winding back, even though I may be uncomfortable with some
> measures.
Labor, by supporting this bill, has once again proven that it is as
opportunistic as the Coalition - no disagreement there.
As far as the winding back of civil liberties goes, I don't have a list
at my fingertips. I note them as it happens but from what I can remember
off-hand (maybe others care to fill in what I forget):
-The abolition of the legislative review committees
-The failure to appoint human rights commissioners of all stripes until
the last possible moment and then not giving them any due.
-The cutting of legal aid funding and increasing court fees of all
descriptions
-Amending the Native Title Act to make it more discriminatory
-Cutting of ATSIC funding
-Overriding the euthanasia law
-Not overriding mandatory sentencing
-Legislating discrimination on the basis of marital status
I'm sure I've forgotten to mention many more.
Trudy
>
> Graham
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Trudy & Rod Bray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 1:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Aid to the civil authority
>
> >
> >
> > Graham Young wrote:
> >
> > > But, if there were a conspiracy, wouldn't it be more likely that people
> > > trying to disrupt the passage of the bill would have organised this
> rather
> > > than the other way around?
> >
> > I don't see your reasoning here, Graham. To me, what happened at Woomera
> > plays into the hands of those in favour of this legislation. It
> > demonstrates the need for this bill and I'm sure Ruddock will milk it
> > for all it's worth.
> >
> > > And as we have broached the issue of the codification of the army's
> powers
> > > in the context of "domestic violence", while I think I would take a
> similar
> > > position to John Dowd who criticised it in the last few days, I think
> some
> > > of the debate has bordered on the hysterical. We are being asked to
> believe
> > > by some that our troops, just having come home from East Timor where
> they
> > > would have been acutely aware of the problems that arise when you mix
> the
> > > army up in civilian policing, are going to somehow be used to suppress
> > > unarmed innocent civilians or unionists by force. I don't think so.
> >
> > I hope your faith is rewarded. I'm sure there are those who believed the
> > same thing of their governments in other countries just before they were
> > proved wrong. Any time you have fearful politicians who call out armed
> > resistance against their own citizens, they will create the same fear in
> > those facing the angry crowd. Most shooting is done out of fear. Most
> > police brutality in crowd situation is committed out of fear. There is
> > no reason or reasoning in fear - that comes after the fact when it is
> > too late.
> >
> > And I
> > > don't think any government who tried to do such a thing would stand any
> > > chance of getting re-elected at the next election.
> >
> > Ah, but governments also act when they think they have nothing left to
> > lose. This government has whittled away at human rights and civil
> > liberties ever since it was elected the first time but it has done so
> > mostly by stealth. I do not believe that most Australians are aware of
> > how greatly their rights and liberties have been eroded. This
> > legislation is just another step on a wellworn path.
> >
> > I think Howard is counting on the ignorance of the population with
> > respect to what is possible and it won't hurt him politically unless
> > people become more informed.
> >
> > Trudy
> > >
> > > Graham
> > >
> > --
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