Good point, Ray. But, if you think about the contrary, then you might realize that everyone in the country wanted to see Pedro.
And how many pitchers on any team would you say that about? I don't even care to see Sabathia. Lincecum and the new Amercan League phenom (name escapes me now) are the two I can think of. I am happy to see Lester or Buchholz or even Wake. I don't have a problem not having a Pedro or Roger on the team. Those types of draws only happen probably 30% of all baseball years for elite teams. I still like WINS. You can argue all the reasons all you want. There are problems with all other stats, too. But if a guy wins 20 games and has a 4.5 ERA, what are people going to say? "He's a 20-game winner." Of course, guys on this board would argue that the stats don't show him as a 20-game winner. John ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Salemi Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Sheesh! Dan, that's why I say Wins are luck. I don't believe in the "play better behind a guy" theory. BTW. Lackey is receiving the second best run support of his career. The Sox are scoring 5.2 runs per 9 innings of his pitching. All this comes down to one question in my mind: Am I excited to go see the guy pitch? Lester -- sure Dice-K-- No. Will actually avoid his games Wake--Always fun Buchholtz--Yup Lackey--Saw him. It was OK But there are no pitchers like Pedro or Clemens on this team where I feel lucky to get to a game with them pitching. On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Dan DiBiase <[email protected]> wrote: I agree that Wins are important, but I don't think they are always a measure of just the pitcher's effectiveness. Sometimes a team just plays better behind a guy. Maybe it's because he's a fast worker and keeps the defense on their toes. Or maybe a ground-ball pitcher and the team has an excellent 'ground ball' defense. Or maybe they just seem to hit better when a particular guy is pitching.... Lackey is a good example this year. I don't think anyone would say he has pitched great, and he has an ERA of 4.65, yet he is 9-5, which is certainly a good record (although it can certainly be debated whether it is good enough for a supposed #1 making over $18 million this year...). Dan D Central NJ USA ________________________________ From: "Beaudoin, John" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, July 20, 2010 11:32:16 PM Subject: Re: Sheesh! ERA can be one horrendous game or a season of terrible middle relief. I think the data just provided (referring to Dice K) shows how an outlier datapoint game throws his ERA out of whack. W's are the most important thing. Hey, are you going to the game tomorrow? ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Tue Jul 20 20:03:03 2010 Subject: Re: Sheesh! W&L is just a measure of run support or luck. It's meaningless. On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Beaudoin, John <[email protected]> wrote: W's and L's mean more than ERA, don't you think? ERA is a very very very very good 2nd stat to look at. ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Tue Jul 20 17:53:02 2010 Subject: Re: Sheesh! This is why God gave us states. Dice-K ERA: 4.29 4.29 = Meh And that sums up his season. Dice-K has a long way to go before I'll get excited about seeing him pitch. Ray On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Steve Ouellette <[email protected]> wrote: That's just not true. Dice K's perceived sins far outweigh the truth. On June 7, he threw eight shutout innings. That was followed by ... 2 runs in 5 IP 3 runs in 6 IP 4 runs in 5 IP (an ugly 8 hits and 4 bb) 2 runs in 6 IP and last night, 1 run in 6.7 IP Prior to the eight shutout innings on June 7, he had given up ... 3 runs in 6.7 IP (no walks!) 3 runs in 4.7 IP (2 hits, but 8 walks!) 0 runs in 8 IP (1 hit) He can still be excruciating to watch, he doesn't go deep into most games and his first innings have been nightmares, but he hasn't had four straight pitiful starts (though three of his first four were bad). In his last nine starts, he's only given up more than three earned runs once (and that was four). Six of them were "quality" starts. Steve O On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Larry Rupp <[email protected]> wrote: I'm normally the optimist here but last time he had a good game he followed that with 4 straight pitiful ones so until I see some consistency from him he's not getting out of the penalty box with me. It's nice to see Beckett back which leaves Lackey, Wake, and Dice to fight for the 2 starting spots in a 5 man rotation. Sent from Larry's mobile device On Jul 20, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Dan DiBiase <[email protected]> wrote: Having basically discounted him this season, preferring to depend on Lester, Bucky and Lackey, if Dice-K could get on a nice streak like this, what a benefit that would be. Dan D Central NJ USA ________________________________ From: "Beaudoin, John" <[email protected]> To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Sent: Tue, July 20, 2010 11:57:09 AM Subject: Re: Sheesh! He didn't want to pitch to them. Smart move on his part probably. He was brilliant. ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Tue Jul 20 08:54:10 2010 Subject: RE: Sheesh! OK - Admit it. Dice-K was almost enjoyable to watch last night. I have never seen him more efficient. I actually stayed awake through 7 because I was enjoying the show. Funny thing is that he walked only two batters, and both of them were on 4 straight balls. How do you figure? Steve G -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at <http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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