It's Shay who has the problem, not Habib, and we have heard nothing more
from him following his initial enquiry and all this expert advice.
________________________________
Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics
Grenoble, FRANCE (from phone)
alan.he...@neutronoptics.com
+33.476984168 VAT:FR79499450856
http://NeutronOptics.com/hewat
_______________________________
On Mon, 4 Sept 2023, 19:39 Roberto de Avillez, <avil...@puc-rio.br> wrote:
> Dear Habib,
>
> Run the silicon crystal diffraction without the Ni filter, you will
> confirm Kleeberg's explanation.
>
> Best regards,
> Roberto de Avillez
>
> Em seg., 4 de set. de 2023 às 07:20, Habib Boughzala <
> habib.boughz...@ipein.rnu.tn> escreveu:
>
>> Many thanks Reinhard,
>>
>> That's exactly what I wanted to say by "I can assure that our Bruker D8
>> is clean and optimized!"
>> Otherwise, in some other cases of well conditioned thin film no similar
>> phenomenon is observed!
>> So, yes, it's obviously possible that your point of view is right.
>>
>> Regards
>> Habib
>>
>>
>> ------ Message d'origine ------
>> De "Reinhard Kleeberg" <kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de>
>> À "Habib Boughzala" <boughz...@yahoo.com>
>> Cc rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Date 04/09/2023 11:07:50
>> Objet Re: Re[2]: [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline
>>
>> Dear Habib,
>> the phenomenom "satellites or edges" originates from the diffraction
>> process. The critical parameters are:
>> - spectral pureness of the primary beam (primary beam monochromator, tube
>> spectral contamination like W...)
>> - the use of K beta absorbtion filter (and its thickness)
>> - the energy resolution ("window") of the detector system.
>> Even a D8 system may be equipped with different types of detectors, slits
>> and energy limits can be set differently for an identical configuration,
>> and quite often satellite peaks may appear later in the time of use (aging
>> of the tube produces more W L, Fe filters may corrode and get
>> perforated...). So it is strictly recommended to check the instrument
>> peridically, by measuring a full pattern of a profile standard (LaB6 or Si
>> or similar).
>> Greetings
>> Reinhard
>>
>> Zitat von Habib Boughzala <boughz...@yahoo.com>:
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>> I would like to send you my witness related to this kind of observation.
>> I can assure that our Bruker D8 is clean and optimized!
>>
>> In many cases of well conditioned thin film (spin coating or controlled
>> diffusion) material this kind of phenomenon is visible around the highest
>> reflection, especially when the preferred orientation is drastically
>> present.
>>
>> So, in my opinion, Reinhard and Alan are right, and what is observed is
>> just like reflections broadening, asymmetry, shifting ...etc ... and can be
>> related to the material behavior.
>> Now, what is the physical (crystallographic!) property responsible of
>> this phenomenon? let's open the floor for a large discussion.
>>
>>
>> Habib
>>
>>
>> ------ Message d'origine ------
>> De "Alan W Hewat" <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>
>> À "Reinhard Kleeberg" <kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de>
>> Cc rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Date 04/09/2023 09:29:08
>> Objet Re: [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline
>>
>>
>> Reinhard is right that it is best to improve the instrument to produce
>> cleaner data. I'm concerned about the advice to model all kinds of features
>> whose origin is not fully understood, simply to obtain a better fit. Shay
>> has told us nothing about his instrument or his conditions of data
>> collection. He asks "Is it a sample preparation problem", to which the
>> obvious reply is "Do you see this with other samples or different
>> materials" ? Only he can answer that. If the answer is yes, he might try
>> modifying his instrument (remove filters etc) to see what effect that has
>> on the pattern from a simple well characterised material. Again only he can
>> do that. Data collection is an experimental science, and data refinement
>> should not be reduced to a "black box" computer program where extra
>> parameters can be added to reduce the R-factor.
>> Alan.
>>
>> On Mon, 4 Sept 2023 at 08:18, Reinhard Kleeberg <
>> kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de> wrote:
>>
>> Can be modeled in the BGMN peak profile model as well, by modifying
>> the *.lam file by a series of additional Lorentzians on the 1/lambda
>> scale, see figure.
>> The same can be done for other spectral impurities, e.g. W L
>> satellites. Also "electronic effects" on the wavelength distribution
>> profile like the "edges" from the ROI settings of Si drift detectors
>> can be modelled in such a convolution based approach.
>> However, better to have a pure/simple wavelength distribution (clear
>> alpha1/2 doublet) by a monochromator or high energy resolution
>> detector, as any satellites make trouble in trace phase analysis and
>> do cause prolonged calculation time in complicated Rietveld refinements.
>>
>> Reinhard
>>
>>
>>
>> Zitat von Matthew Rowles <rowle...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> Topas can model them quite well. The functionality was introduced in
>> version 5.
>>
>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023, 00:54 Kurt Leinenweber, <ku...@asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi, Are these things modeled in Rietveld programs, by chance? It seems
>> like a lot of baggage to put in a refinement but if it makes the results
>> better…
>>
>>
>>
>> - Kurt
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> *On Behalf
>> Of *Thomas Gegan
>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 3, 2023 9:16 AM
>> *To:* Bish, David L <b...@indiana.edu>; Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com>;
>> Fernando Igoa <fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Rietveld List (rietveld_l@ill.fr) <rietveld_l@ill.fr>
>> *Subject:* RE: [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with a Ni absorption edge, possibly with a Kβ peak around 38° 2θ.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tom Gegan*
>> Chemist III
>>
>>
>>
>> Phone: +1 732 205-5111, Email: tom.ge...@basf.com
>> Postal Address: BASF Corporation, , 25 Middlesex Essex Turnpike, 08830
>> Iselin, United States
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> *On Behalf
>> Of *Bish, David L
>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 3, 2023 7:08 AM
>> *To:* Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com>; Fernando Igoa <
>> fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Rietveld List (rietveld_l@ill.fr) <rietveld_l@ill.fr>
>> *Subject:* [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline
>>
>>
>>
>> Some people who received this message don't often get email from
>> b...@indiana.edu. Learn why this is important
>> <
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fFhSHn4S5iEzkW-O9lvWG-OzoqK_2SKhRniGa71nxuOL3GcxiyD83i2mnNN0Z48HPkn4zjKqH-aqqA$
>> >
>>
>> Hello Shay,
>>
>> I think it is probably related to "tube tails". You can read about this in
>> the literature (e.g., on the BGMN web site) and you can model it in some
>> Rietveld software such as Topas. You don't normally notice this but it
>> becomes apparent with higher-intensity peaks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dave
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> on behalf
>> of Fernando Igoa <fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 3, 2023 3:06 AM
>> *To:* Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Rietveld List (rietveld_l@ill.fr) <rietveld_l@ill.fr>
>> *Subject:* [External] Re: Step-like basline
>>
>>
>>
>> This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when
>> clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Shay,
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you using a motorized slit during the measurement? These may open up
>> abruptly to compensate for the angular dependence of the footprint and
>> thus
>> generate an abrupt increase in the intensity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope it helps :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 8:50 AM Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Rietvelders
>>
>> I am attaching a zoom-in on a diffraction profile.
>>
>> My question is what is the origin of the step-like profile next to a very
>> large reflection peak?
>>
>> Is it a sample preparation problem?
>>
>> Is it part of the baseline?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Shay
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> TU Bergakademie Freiberg
>> Dr. R. Kleeberg
>> Mineralogisches Labor
>> Brennhausgasse 14
>> D-09596 Freiberg
>>
>> Tel. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3244
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>> --
>> ______________________________________________
>> Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE
>> <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> +33.476.98.41.68
>> http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat <http://www.neutronoptics.com/hewat>
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> -- TU Bergakademie Freiberg
>> Dr. R. Kleeberg
>> Mineralogisches Labor
>> Brennhausgasse 14
>> D-09596 Freiberg
>>
>> Tel. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3244
>> Fax. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3129
>>
>>
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