OT for OSX as its almost turned into a bit of a Java discussion. Java has its problems, the main one being write once test everywhere although it generally works OK as long as you don't go over board with complicated libraries you plug into. You normally just get stupid problems like fonts wrapping because they are different sizes on different systems and the like.
I'm not the worlds best Java expert by any stretch but over the last 5 years of professionally using it, I've programmed a call handling system built on top of asterisk that handled about 2,000 calls a day (at its peak) without skipping a beat. I even have the complication of having to share data between the UK and India but even that didn't break anything once I had a MySQL slave over there. All I'm trying to say is like any language if you're a crap programmer you'll make crap programs regardless of the language (I hope none of you have had the misfortune of using the Cisco firewall management stuff, 1GB of RAM minimum reqs for a firewall GUI in Java is ridiculous). In general the big corp Java apps I've used seem to be overly complicated junk, thankfully I don't have to use them anymore as I'm in a tiny IT shop these days. I'd be all for converting to Java as I can write it while I sleep instead of having to think about all this C stuff but I think I'm leaning towards the fact that its a lot of work with not a great pay off. I don't know a lot about QT but I know that QT5 is going web orientated and QT is quite cross platform once you set it up so it seems like the Java cross platform advantages will disappear. Finally I need to quickly defend Eclipse (Netbeans is OK but I found the auto generated GUI code it produces to be a complete mess and it put me off using the whole thing), I haven't found any IDE that comes close to it once you get used to it, with the tool tip API lookups, auto completion and an awesome debugger its pretty much Visual Studio but free (albeit without a gui builder, which suits me). Its a rude awakening going from that to gedit for C++/QT stuff where the only way I know of debugging is to throw in lots of console writes and keep compiling until the errors go away (I have the same problems with PHP so its not just a C/QT thing). Regards, Wayne -----Original Message----- From: rivendell-dev-boun...@lists.rivendellaudio.org on behalf of Gregg Wonderly Sent: Fri 31/08/2012 01:53 To: User discussion about the Rivendell Radio Automation System Subject: Re: [RDD] OSX On Aug 30, 2012, at 6:05 PM, Fred Gleason <fr...@paravelsystems.com> wrote: > On Aug 30, 2012, at 18:11 08, Dan Mills wrote: > >> I don't know if it is just me (And I have not worked on Riv for a >> while), but EVERY major java application (Possibly except Chrome, I have >> not used it much) I have ever run across has been a right pain to >> install, xml infested, massive, slow to start up, and generally slightly >> crash happy, maybe it just comes with the "Enterprise" label or >> something..... > > This has been my experience as well, with the addition of extreme sensitivity > to the precise version of JRE being used, to the point where I've even had to > *downgrade* it to get a working setup. Not a particularly impressive showing > for a system that purports to deliver 'write once, run anywhere' > functionality. This was several years ago however, so perhaps things have > improved since then. Many people seem to have experience with JavaEE servers as their "Java" experience. There, too many large scale, mismanaged resources and "code-by-tools" creates a lot of problems. I've been using JavaSE for a data brokering system that I wrote from scratch, deployed in the petroleum products market, for the past decade. My experience has been that I haven't had to worry about Java versions, except for some point releases with actual bugs. I understand the GC at the wrong moment won't be good. That's why I'd prefer to leave the play out system in a native C/C++ application framework. It could still load the JVM in that process, and call out to it, if that was a useful part of the system. GC in that JVM would happen on threads independent of the play out mechanisms. > >> I mean eclipse, really, come back emacs (or vim) all is forgiven, and a >> glorified text editor really should not crash! > > I'm there, baby! Using emacs v23.1 (and yes, it's available for OS X as > well). :) I'm a VI user and I am not always excited about IDEs. The Netbeans IDE, is much preferable to Eclipse for me, because it seems to be more like an editor with a navigation tree, instead of some kinds of systems engineering nightmare. >> Now as it happens the log playback logic is somewhat too tightly tied to >> the gui in rivendell, and could very usefully be abstracted into a >> logplayd process (Or three), but remember that even this is fairly hard >> realtime if you want the transitions to sound smooth. GC at the wrong >> time there would be a dead air situation, possibly making the next >> transition also miss its timing. > > This is the real crux of the matter, I think. Multimedia systems that demand > realtime performance remain the almost exclusive province of C/C++. > Unpredictable GC in languages with automatic memory management is one of the > major reasons for that. As I said above. I'd prefer to leave the play out system outside of the realm of a Java implementation. That would not be a great thing without some careful engineering. Don't get excited or too argumentative, because I'm just thinking out loud here. Gregg > Cheers! > > > |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| > | Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer | > | | Paravel Systems | > |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| > | The UNIX philosophy basically involves giving you enough rope to hang | > | yourself. And then a couple of feet more, just to be sure. | > | -- Anonymous | > |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| > > _______________________________________________ > Rivendell-dev mailing list > Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org > http://lists.rivendellaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev _______________________________________________ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://lists.rivendellaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev label or ####################### Scanned by MailMarshal ####################### ############ Attention: The information contained in this message is confidential and intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error or there are any problems, please notify the originator immediately. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. 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