Hi All,

Based on comments from this adoption poll and offline queries, I would like
to clarify that this call is a follow-up to the FANTEL BoF at IETF 123, as
previously shared [1].

Incubation in the RTGWG provides a forum for detailed work on
applicability, problem statements, and requirements. This is particularly
useful when a BoF does not allow sufficient time to build consensus or when
a project benefits from the diverse expertise within this group—a factor
that is very important in this case. Adrian’s email [2] captures this
sentiment well.

If successful, adoption marks the start of the Working Group's development
and consensus-building efforts. The goal here is not the usual publication
as an RFC, but rather to improve the chances of successful incubation as
requested in [1].

Thanks,
Ketan
(Responsible AD for the FANTEL BoF)

[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtgwg/9NYD38DwXj8bjLoVm3fRri4H2ck/
(https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtgwg/9NYD38DwXj8bjLoVm3fRri4H2ck/)
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtgwg/l99pktmU0nHJDYJNeXIw4MeX3Xg/
(https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtgwg/l99pktmU0nHJDYJNeXIw4MeX3Xg/)


On Fri, Jan 16, 2026 at 10:21 PM Yingzhen Qu <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The adoption call for this draft doesn't mean that RTGWG intends to
> publish it or will do the protocol work, but rather RTGWG is performing the
> incubation function. Like Adrian mentioned, the adoption call is a poll to
> gather more reviews and reach consensus on the problem scope.
>
> Assuming there is consensus, the proponents can work on a charter. "Developing
> a charter and establishing consensus for a new WG" is in RTGWG's charter,
> and RTGWG is a venue for such work. RTGWG chairs can recommend forming a
> new WG to the RTG ADs. The ADs will determine whether another BoF is needed.
>
> Thanks,
> Yingzhen (RTGWG Co-chair)
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2026 at 7:55 AM Adrian Farrel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> I was NOT speaking against adoption, but was asking the RTGWG chairs what
>> they think the next step in the incubation process is.
>>
>> It would be helpful if the chairs explained a little about the purpose of
>> the adoption poll that they issued. How does this drive the future of the
>> Fantel work?
>>
>> I would say:
>> - The chairs appear to think that the best approach to getting input and
>> opinions on the Fantel problem statement is to do an adoption poll that
>> "forces" some reviews and determines whether there is consensus that this
>> is a problem to work on.
>> - While the proponents could BoF this again, that seems to go against the
>> idea of RTGWG incubating the topic.
>> - Adopting a draft does not imply future plans for publication as an RFC,
>> but places the work under the care of the WG so that updates reflect WG
>> opinions (not just the whims of the authors).
>> - Adopting this draft does not imply that the WG will do protocol work (I
>> think it would have to recharter) or that the AD will form a Fantel WG
>> (that would require chartering). It simply advances the stability of this
>> work.
>> - Listing 13 authors on the front page of a draft is not good and must be
>> fixed before the draft is adopted.
>>
>> Separate email to follow on whether I think this draft is ready for
>> adoption.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Adrian
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Black, David <[email protected]>
>> Sent: 16 January 2026 15:27
>> To: Yingzhen Qu <[email protected]>; [email protected];
>> [email protected]; [email protected];
>> [email protected]
>> Cc: Black, David <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [fantel] Re: [rtgwg] Call for adoption:
>> draft-dong-fantel-problem-statement-03 (Ends 2026-01-30)
>>
>> At this time, I oppose adoption of this draft by itself primarily for
>> reasons already stated by Adrian and Joel.
>>
>> Adrian:
>> > Obviously, RTGWG has been doing a good job nurturing the effort and
>> giving us a place to discuss the drafts. The question is: how does this
>> incubation proceed?
>> > Do we adopt drafts into RTGWG and continue to work on them there, or do
>> we BoF Fantel now that we have a fairly clear problem statement?
>>
>> Joel:
>> > Net: While I see a nice sketch of a topic for investigation, I do not
>> see enough clarity for adoption.
>>
>> By itself, RFC publication of a problem statement (intended outcome of WG
>> adoption of a problem statement draft) without follow-on work would be a
>> waste of time and effort, so WG adoption of this draft would be an implicit
>> commitment that RTGWG will do some protocol work, but it's unclear what
>> protocol work is being implicitly committed to.  For that reason, this
>> draft needs to be accompanied by a scope and plan for initial protocol work
>> - I would suggest that the initial work focus on network operators and
>> traffic engineering, leaving end-nodes and application considerations to be
>> addressed in possible later stages, but that's only my opinion, and there
>> are other possibilities.
>>
>> A problem statement draft is not a good vehicle for proposing and
>> describing initial work because the resulting RFC will be an archive
>> document and the proposed work scope and plan will likely be "overtaken by
>> events" ;-).   Work scope and plan topics are much better addressed in a
>> draft WG charter, as WG charters are not archive documents.  If that is
>> done, then a BoF would be an appropriate next step, although not the only
>> possible one, as Adrian has observed.
>>
>> Also, the number of authors (13) of this draft is excessive - that will
>> need to change at some point (not necessarily now).  See section 4.1.1 of
>> RFC 7322 (https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7322.html#section-4.1.1).
>>
>> Thanks, --David
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Yingzhen Qu via Datatracker <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2026 2:12 PM
>> To: [email protected]; [email protected];
>> [email protected]; [email protected]
>> Subject: [rtgwg] Call for adoption:
>> draft-dong-fantel-problem-statement-03 (Ends 2026-01-30)
>>
>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
>>
>> This message starts a rtgwg WG Call for Adoption of:
>> draft-dong-fantel-problem-statement-03
>>
>> This Working Group Call for Adoption ends on 2026-01-30
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    Modern networks require adaptive traffic manipulation including
>>    Traffic Engineering (TE), load balancing, flow control, and
>>    protection, to support high-throughput, low-latency, and lossless
>>    applications such as Artificial Intelligence (AI) /Machine Learning
>>    (ML) training and real-time services.  A good and timely
>>    understanding of network operational status, such as congestion and
>>    failures, can help to improve network utilization, enable the
>>    selection of paths with reduced latency, and enable faster response
>>    to critical events.  This document describes the existing problems
>>    and why a new set of fast network notification solutions are needed.
>>
>> Please reply to this message and indicate whether or not you support
>> adoption
>> of this Internet-Draft by the rtgwg WG. Comments to explain your
>> preference
>> are greatly appreciated. Please reply to all recipients of this message
>> and
>> include this message in your response.
>>
>> Authors, and WG participants in general, are reminded of the Intellectual
>> Property Rights (IPR) disclosure obligations described in BCP 79 [2].
>> Appropriate IPR disclosures required for full conformance with the
>> provisions
>> of BCP 78 [1] and BCP 79 [2] must be filed, if you are aware of any.
>> Sanctions available for application to violators of IETF IPR Policy can be
>> found at [3].
>>
>> Thank you.
>> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bcp78/
>> [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bcp79/
>> [3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6701/
>>
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dong-fantel-problem-statement/
>>
>> There is also an HTMLized version available at:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-dong-fantel-problem-statement-03
>>
>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>
>> https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-dong-fantel-problem-statement-03
>>
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