On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 11:42:38AM +0100, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave
Ltd) wrote:
> On 28 August 2014 16:55, Vincent Delecroix <20100.delecr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2014-08-28 17:44 UTC+02:00, Jori Mantysalo <jori.mantys...@uta.fi>:
>
> >> I am now thinking for example university class using Sage as a part of
> >> some course. Teachers don't want to use time for being it-support;
> >> students do not try installing Sage, if it SEEMS to be complicated.
> >
> > Note that for teaching/installation there is an alternative: tell the
> > students to come with a USB stick and just clone the sage-debian live
> > (http://sagedebianlive.metelu.net/). It is very easy to use and all
> > students will have exactly the same system. The procedure to duplicate
> > the key is integrated inside the key, so the time to set up 200 keys
> > is in theory just log(200)/log(2) * (time of one install), ignoring
> > the fact that you could clone several keys at once.
> >
> > The key is definitely not set up for development. But it's still
> > doable using a local drive (intensive access to the filesystem on a
> > USB stick will just burn it quickly).
> >
> > It is completely self contained with no it-support needed (except that
> > you need computers that are able to boot on USB).
> >
> > Vincent
>
> I can't imagine a single *professional* system admin in a university
> would want students booting computers from USB sticks. I'm not saying
> some random lecturer who takes on a system admin role would mind, but
> from a security point of view, having PCs booting from a USB stick is
> risky. Malicious software could do any sort of nasty. I've reset
> passwords on Windows machines doing that - boot Linux, mount the NTFS
> file system, edit the files.
To give an explicit example, one comment from a teacher in Madrid says:
"I use the USB for my students, which often are scared to install linux
but have to use Sage.", so it is for student laptops.
Of course, if a professional sysadmin maintains the university's
computers, she can install Sage on the computers or serve it from a
dedicated server as they do for example in Lyon with sage notebook
(which is why i advocate having a multi-user version of Sage to actually
work, the current situation is pretty hazardous: ipython notebook is
single user (and the planned multi-user will only work with trusted
users), the multi-user part of sagemathcloud is not open-sourced, Sage
notebook might become unmaintained or lagging behind ipython notebook).
> If students have their own laptops, then it is less of a risk, but I
> would imagine the lecturer would spend all his/her time trying to help
> a student get his/her laptop to boot from a USB stick. You would need
> to get into the BIOS for that, and many computers are different about
> how that works.
My experience is that it is indeed much easier to explain how to boot
from a USB drive ("press F2/F12/Delete/whatever at boot time, search for
'boot sequence', try to put the USB drive on top (F5/F6, +/-,
PageUp/PageDown) and search for 'save and exit', not a big deal) than
explaining how to install a GNU/Linux distro (which contains the
previous step, but also making backups, reduce existing partitions,...).
Moreover, once the bootstrap is done on a few laptops, the diffusion is
pretty fast (each student with a working live system becomes a seeder).
Moreover this exercise has to be done only once, and there is no more
work to do afterwards, e.g. when upgrading. My personal strategy is to
use the live USB when i have to deal with a lot of people, and to
propose to help installing a GNU/Linux distro when i am with a single
motivated person since it takes much more time to install and explain
basics (e.g. using the package manager instead of downloading a binary
on the web). Also the live USB can be a step in the discovery of a full
featured GNU/Linux before actually willing to install it on the hard
disk.
> Of course, the same argument can be made about booting from any form
> of ISO image, such as a DVD.
>
> Maybe use of Sage should at some point be preeded by some lectures on
> the use of Linux.
+1
> I was reading in the UK today that *programming* is
> to be made part of the compulsory school curriculum in England. I'm
> not sure by what age, but given people can leave school at 16 here, it
> will be before 16. Given mathmaticians are going to be using
> Mathematical software, teaching them enough of the OS on which that
> software runs is probably not a bad idea. I believe it happens in
> Germany for example.
>
> Dave
Ciao,
Thierry
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