*Timeo advocatos a communa lege loquentes... *The relevant precedents in 
(what passes for) american law strongly hint at a very complicated 
resolution (which would enrich lawyers and nobody else...).

I do not know if William's analysis is right, but it seems to be *prudent*, 
and therefore a sound advice for preventive behavior. This is even stronger 
in his case, since his company *sells* Cocalc access/use... this point may 
be weaker for Sagecell (nothing is *sold*...), but I wouldn't bet on it : 
as far as I know, what passes for legal logic has never been proved 
complete nor consistent.

Where is Kurt Gödel when you need him ;-)...

Le mercredi 30 novembre 2022 à 10:26:17 UTC+1, dim...@gmail.com a écrit :

> On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 7:59 PM William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:25 AM kcrisman <kcri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Though see this: 
> https://www.wolfram.com/engine/faq/#can-i-use-the-free-engine-in-an-open-source-project
> >
> > That says " However, the Free Engine license does not permit end-user
> > use, except when this use is for further development. For end-user
> > uses, users must have a separate license for the Wolfram Engine."
> > which seems to me to make it crystal clear that it would not be legal
> > to install cocalc-docker (or even Jupyter notebook) and along with
> > Wolfram Engine and use it for any purpose except for development of
> > cocalc or Jupyter itself (i.e., to make sure the UI works).
> > Everything in that FAQ is about "developing a product".
>
> I'm not a lawyer, but in Wolfram's mindset a scientific paper is a
> product, too, no ?
> (Especially assuming it has enough self-promotion hype in it - not
> sure, if this is a joke :-))
>
> Would putting Wolfram Engine on cocalc with a warning saying "read
> their terms of use" be
> too dangerous, risking more than just being slapped with a "cease and
> desist" letter?
>
> Dima
>
> > This is a
> > license aimed at increasing the number of reasons people will buy
> > Mathematica, by being nice to developers who are building products
> > that use Mathematica.
> >
> > The discussions like this
> >
> > 
> https://mathematica.stackexchange.com/questions/274333/wolfram-engine-jupyter-stackrel-mathematica
> >
> > (and the corresponding reddit thread) seem to me to be wildly
> > optimistic in their interpretation.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm not a lawyer, though I applaud Wolfram, Inc. for posting
> > that very clearly worded plain language FAQ instead of just some
> > massive wall of legalese.
> >
> > William
> >
> > > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 2:24:15 PM UTC-5 kcrisman wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> The same could also apply to Cocalc ... except that Cocalc is also a 
> commercial product, therefore excluded from Wolfram terms for the *gratis* 
> Wolfram engine...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Technically if someone ran a Cocalc instance (say, from a Docker 
> image) that was not commercial, maybe that would be okay? (IANAL as usual.)
> > >
> > > --
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> .
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > William (http://wstein.org)
> >
> > --
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