[amsat-bb] Re: Been A While

[Tim Cunningham]

Hi Joel,

It is great to hear you on the BB. I hope to work you on the birds when I 
get my antennas back in the air. We moved south of the Tennessee River near 
I-65.

Our daughter is now 3 years old (my classmates have grandchildren) and 
giving me a little more time to play radio.

We managed to earn Field Day bonus points using an Arrow antenna the last 2 
years. Alan, WB5RMG, brought his equipment out to the Field Day site this 
year and it worked great, but boy was it HOT outside under a canopy tent.

As soon as the honey-do list is completed at the new house, my antennas will 
be back in the air, but it is 'Arm Strong' pointing at the moment.



73's,

Tim - N8DEU




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 5:48 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Been A While


> It's been quite a while since I have been on this BB. I got out of the
> hobby for about four years but I am working my way back in. I used to be
> KS4AW then K2SAT. Now I'm W4JBB. I don't even know if some of the folks 
> who
> were involved in AMSAT are even still around. I do searches on their
> webpages and either get nothing or no updates in years - I don't dive past
> the first search results page. These are a few I remember:
>
> K5OE
> K6YK
> KF4FDJ
> N7SFI
> N8DEU
> WB6LLO
>
> There were many others too.
>
> I am getting my equipment slowly out of storage (I have it stored all over
> the house apparently). I had a FODtrack interface and found a partial 
> build
> of the G6LVB tracker. I cannot remember if I finished the LVB tracker or
> not. I have a cutout for and LCD display, but no display in it. My dad has
> my '847, but he's not using it and I'll get it back in the next week. I
> left my tower up with my 2m/70cm antennas and the G5400 rotor. Feedline is
> still there too... partially. I guess my only question about gear is what
> should I use for auto-tracking with a Vista box? Like I said, I *had* a
> FODtrack interface, but I cannot find it. I also have a partially built 
> LVB
> tracker. I have a parallel PCI card I can install in the Vista machine but
> I wonder if anyone has had any luck with that setup... I'm not opposed to
> booting up into Linux either.
>
> I have looked at the AMSAT homepage and there is only a small fraction of
> satellites still available. I have renewed my membership and am really
> looking forward to getting back on the birds. I think I have rambled 
> enough.
>
> 73,
> Joel, W4JBB
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[amsat-bb] Future satellites

[John B. Stephensen]

An interesting question for the short term is what can we do with 1 watt of 
RF from a LEO satellite. RS-10 and RS-12 were interesting as they required 
only omnidirectional antennas but they had a lot of power available as they 
were attached to much larger satellites. AO-16 was a small satellite but was 
capable of only 1200 bps data using uncoded BPSK and simple vertical 
antennas.

Given the type of hardware developed for Suitsat-2, we should be able to do 
a lot more. Using modern error-correcting codes 4800 bps is possible using 
omnidirectional antenas and with modern codecs that can carry 4 voice 
channels or 3 voice channels plus 40 PSK31-like channels. With 10 dBi of 
gain at the ground station the data rate and number of voice channels could 
be quadrupled. The downlink could also be split between 2 voice channels for 
use with omnidirectional antennas and 8 voice channels for high-gain 
antennas.

73,

John
KD6OZH

I have extracted from it the most important following part:

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

Extracted from G3RUH article "THE EARTH MOVES"

> An example, 1 watt transmitted from a 20 dbi gain dish on the Moon,
> received on a 1.2m dish at Earth with a system noise temperature of 100K
> results in a signal to noise ratio in 2.4 kHz bandwidth of 10.5 db. (Note
> that frequency matters not). This would support one rather noisy SSB voice
> signal.
> Alternatively it would carry an error-free 2400 bps binary PSK data
> transmission without coding, 9600 bps with modest coding [2].

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[amsat-bb] Re: controller and Rotator help

[Bill Howell]

Myles,

My antennas/rotor are disassembled right now, as we are trying to  
sell the house.
When it was all together, I used an older version of MacDoppler Pro,  
a Mac G4 tower with a serial card,
and an Endeavour Auto Tracker ( http://endeavour-usa.com/ 
autotracker.htm ) driving a Yaesu 5400 rotor.
The system worked FB.

Had I to do it over, I might not choose the Endeavour interface unit.  
It requires a serial port
on the Mac, and I'm not sure if a serial-to USB converter would work  
right with it
(an Imac, for instance, has no provision for a serial card).

MacDoppler is an excellent program with great support.
The 5400 was purchased used and has been up on my roof for a number  
of years with no problems.

A friend of mine (who may not subscribe to this list) is using a Mac,  
MacDoppler and a Yaesu 5400.
I will email him and see what he is using for an interface unit (I  
think his Mac is USB-only), and let you know.

Bill Howell N5AB


On Jul 4, 2009, at 8:12 PM, myles landstein wrote:

> Since no one has  replied  thought  I might give it another  try,
> while perhaps not many  are familiar with MacDoppler software,  I
> hope  some would  be  with the  hardware and wouldn't mind  offering
> some  help?
>
>
> thanks
>
> happy 4th
>
>
> On Jul 3, 2009, at 4:47 PM, myles landstein wrote:
>
>> Hoping to get some real world advice from those that are using
>> MacDoppler and a compatible Rotor /Controller set up as this will
>> be my first time getting a rotator and controller.
>>
>> I wanted to solicit some advice on two fronts, the rotor
>> controller basically for ease of use with MacDoppler and
>> rotor reliability.
>>
>>
>> My first thoughts were towards a Yaesu 5500 and maybe the
>> PrimeTec controller or maybe the LVB tracker as it's less costly.
>>
>> I read a few reviews but not much was out there in general but
>> especially on the PrimeTec...
>
> Anyone using the PrimeTec?
>>
>> What are you using as a controller? would appreciate any
>> comparisons pro's cons tips tricks you might have
>>
>>
>> My biggest concern really is the Rotator. I am in a situation such
>> that after installation, getting back to the roof for repairs
>> would be rather difficult. So i am trying to identify the 'best'
>> small/moderate sized rotator (az/el) as possible /practical.
>>
>> Will be turning a small M2 2m and 440 circular pol beam
>>
>>
>> Not really sure how reliable the 5500 is for long term use. so
>> if there was a 'better' more reliable and or longer lasting rotor
>> out there i'd strongly consider it
>>
>> The only thing I thought of as a alternative was the AlphaSpid but
>> comparing reviews I seem to come out about the same between it and
>> the 5500 -hoping some real world  responses might  help me break the
>> 'tie'
>>
>>
>> Since this is all new stuff and I am not finding the usual
>> quality 'google' results /reviews (PrimeTec) I would greatly
>> appreciate any
>> help or experience /advice on this from someone that went down
>> this road already and willing to share some first hand info on what
>> they use.
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks very much grateful for any advice.
>>
>>
>> Going to Dayton '10  It will get better with
>> more support!
>>
>> Myles D   Landstein
>> N2EHG
>> myles.landst...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Myles Landstein
> myles.landst...@gmail.com
> please note my   new email address
> dti will soon be eliminated , gmail is my new home  update your dir
>
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> author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite  
> program!
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[amsat-bb] Re: controller and Rotator help

[myles landstein]

Since no one has  replied  thought  I might give it another  try,  
while perhaps not many  are familiar with MacDoppler software,  I  
hope  some would  be  with the  hardware and wouldn't mind  offering  
some  help?


thanks

happy 4th


On Jul 3, 2009, at 4:47 PM, myles landstein wrote:

> Hoping to get some real world advice from those that are using
> MacDoppler and a compatible Rotor /Controller set up as this will
> be my first time getting a rotator and controller.
>
> I wanted to solicit some advice on two fronts, the rotor
> controller basically for ease of use with MacDoppler and
> rotor reliability.
>
>
> My first thoughts were towards a Yaesu 5500 and maybe the
> PrimeTec controller or maybe the LVB tracker as it's less costly.
>
> I read a few reviews but not much was out there in general but
> especially on the PrimeTec...

Anyone using the PrimeTec?
>
> What are you using as a controller? would appreciate any
> comparisons pro's cons tips tricks you might have
>
>
> My biggest concern really is the Rotator. I am in a situation such
> that after installation, getting back to the roof for repairs
> would be rather difficult. So i am trying to identify the 'best'
> small/moderate sized rotator (az/el) as possible /practical.
>
> Will be turning a small M2 2m and 440 circular pol beam
>
>
> Not really sure how reliable the 5500 is for long term use. so
> if there was a 'better' more reliable and or longer lasting rotor
> out there i'd strongly consider it
>
> The only thing I thought of as a alternative was the AlphaSpid but
> comparing reviews I seem to come out about the same between it and
> the 5500 -hoping some real world  responses might  help me break the  
> 'tie'
>
>
> Since this is all new stuff and I am not finding the usual
> quality 'google' results /reviews (PrimeTec) I would greatly  
> appreciate any
> help or experience /advice on this from someone that went down
> this road already and willing to share some first hand info on what  
> they use.
>
>
>
> thanks very much grateful for any advice.
>
>
> Going to Dayton '10  It will get better with
> more support!
>
> Myles D   Landstein
> N2EHG
> myles.landst...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

Myles Landstein
myles.landst...@gmail.com
please note my   new email address
dti will soon be eliminated , gmail is my new home  update your dir

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[amsat-bb] ANS-186 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins

[JoAnne Maenpaa]

AMSAT NEWS SERVICE
ANS-186

ANS is a free, weekly, news and information service of AMSAT North
America, The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation. ANS reports on the
activities of a worldwide group of Amateur Radio operators who share an
active interest in designing, building, launching and communicating
through analog and digital Amateur Radio satellites.

Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to:
ans-edi...@amsat.org

**
* 2009 AMSAT Space Symposium and Annual General Meeting October 9-11 *
*   Four Points Sheraton Hotel at the Baltimore Washington Airport   *
*  Details - http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/symposium/2009/index.php *
**

In this edition:

* AMSAT 2009 Space Symposium and Annual General Meeting
* AMSAT Forum videos from Dayton Hamvention
* SuitSat-2 Systems Integration
* AO-51 Engineering Team Continues to Monitor Power Levels
* Certificate Available for 13 Colonies Special Event Station
* Special Event Station 4C50C via Satellite From Mexico
* AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award #500 Issued
* Recognition for SumbandilaSat Design and Development
* Satellite Shorts From All Over

SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-186.01
AMSAT 2009 Space Symposium and Annual General Meeting

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 186.01
>From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD.
July 5, 2009
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-186.01

Now is the time for you to prepare your papers and presentations
for the 2009 AMSAT Annual Meeting and Space Symposium to be held 
October 9 - 11 at the Four Points Sheraton Hotel at the Baltimore 
Washington Airport. 

Proposals for papers, symposium presentations and poster presenta-
tions are invited on any topic of interest to the amateur satellite 
community. We request a tentative title of your presentation as soon 
as possible, with final copy submitted by September 1, 2009 for 
inclusion in the printed proceedings. 

Abstracts and papers should be sent to Dan Schultz, N8FGV, at 
n8...@amsat.org.

[ANS thanks the 2009 Symposium Committee for the above information]

/EX


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-186.02
AMSAT Forum videos from Dayton Hamvention

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 186.02
>From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD.
July 5, 2009
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-186.02

Videos of the six presentations at the AMSAT Forum at the 2009 Dayton 
Hamvention are now on the AMSAT website.  Click on this link:

http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/information/videoNews.php - or -

go to the AMSAT website and click on the AMSAT Video News icon about 
halfway down the page in the left column.

The presentations include:

1.  Richard Garriott's forum talk (mislabeled on the web site as the 
Banquet presentation, actual length about 15 minutes) on his visit 
to the ISS.

2.  AMSAT Status report, Barry Baines, WD4ASW

3.  SuitSat-2 Project Status, Gould Smith, WA4SXM

4.  Satellite Operations Status, Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA

5.  ARISS Status, Will Marchant, KC6ROL

6.  Columbus Module Antennas, Lou McFadin, W5DID

Be sure and watch Barry's presentation on the Status of AMSAT. Thanks 
go to Steve Belter, who recorded, edited and converted the video of 
the AMSAT presentations at the 2009 Dayton AMSAT Forum, Rob Meisse 
W8GSM for setting them up on his server and to Rick Hambly W2GPS for 
updates on this web page.

[ANS thanks Gould, WA4SXM and Steve, N9IP for above information]

/EX


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-186.03
SuitSat-2 Systems Integration

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 186.03
>From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD.
July 5, 2009
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-186.03

Many of the SuitSat-2 team members will converge on Phoenix during
the weekend of July 10-12 for a system integration party. The team
expects to put all of the hardware modules together that have been 
developed in many parts of the country. SuitSat-2 Project Manager,
Gould WA4SXM said, "It is great to be at the point that we can start 
testing system operations with the hardware and software. The fun 
begins Friday July 10."  You can keep up with the integration activ-
ities next weekend using Twitter  http://twitter.com/GGouldSmith.

[ANS thanks Gould, WA4SXM for the above information]

/EX


SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-186.04
AO-51 Engineering Team Continues to Monitor Power Levels

AMSAT News Service Bulletin 186.04
>From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD.
July 5, 2009
To All RADIO AMATEURS
BID: $ANS-186.04

Due to the increasing time AO-51 is spending in eclipse AMSAT 
Vice-President of Operations, Drew KO4MA reports that transmitter 
power levels have needed to be reduced. This way the batteries will 
provide enough power to keep the satellite operational when the 
solar cells are not providing charging current. AO-51 users have 
already noted the weaker signals on the downlinks.

The AO-51 Control Team Web Page for latest operating information will
carry the latest status of the satellite. See:
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/echo/

[amsat-bb] Re: More Future Thoughts

[Tony Langdon]

At 02:52 AM 7/5/2009, you wrote:

>AMSAT as a whole (I mean the membership) needs a new challenge and dream
>that will bring out the very best in it to build what ever comes up. The
>Moon could be that new challenge as we have NEVER designed anything that
>would actually LAND and operate in that hostile environment. Is it
>viable, who knows! We can only ask ourselves that question and then step
>up to the challenge.

Well, the challenge as I see it is not so much in the RF side of 
things, but being to take advantage of the available (relatively 
affordable) launch opportunities available (i.e. LEO), then coming up 
with a way to being able to move the bird into an orbit more 
suitable.  Yes, propulsion hasn't been AMSAT's strong point, but for 
most of the last 20 years, I only recall LEOs being put up (AO-40 
being the only exception I can recall in that timeframe).

So the challenge is to find a means of propulsion that is relatively 
safe, inexpensive and lightweight, but can move a satellite into a 
significantly higher orbit (e.g. MEO).  I'd imagine that such a form 
of propulsion is probably only found in science fiction, but how 
close can one get in the real world?  Are there any universities 
working on cheaper ways to move satellites around, once launched, 
that need a suitable test mass (that happens to have a transponder or 
two on board)?

73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com

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[amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question

[Joel Black]

That's them.  Thanks, George and, David, I got the dog off the webpage.  ;)

Tnx,
Joel, W4JBB

George Henry wrote:
> Sounds like the "QHTennas", made by N4QH.  Reviewed in QST in 2005, then he 
> stopped producing them just a few months later.
> Near as I could figure out, they are a conventional turnstile design, but 
> with the 2 dipoles separated by the length of the phasing line, and no 
> reflector.
>
> George, KA3HSW
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Joel Black" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 9:50 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Antenna Question
>
>
> Happy Independence Day.
>
> Does anyone recognize the following antennas?  I purchased them years
> ago and they were part of a system I never installed.  Over the years,
> one of the elements has been damaged and, even though I can fix it
> myself, I'd like to know who made these.
>
> Doggonit, I cannot upload to my webpage (something else yet to figure
> out).  Suffice it to say, my description may not do the antennas
> justice.  There are two of them, a 2m and 70cm made out of sched 40
> PVC.  They appear to be a "turnstile" type antenna with two aluminum
> elements at the top and two at the  bottom 90° out of phase from each
> other (top and bottom).  In other words, if looking at a compass, the
> top two elements would be at N and S, the bottom two at E and W.  This
> is the same on both antennas as they are a matching set.
>
> These antennas were in an old QST, but I have since gotten rid of all
> those magazines and cannot find the article online.  Any ideas or
> suggestions?
>
> Tnx,
> Joel, W4JBB
>
>
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>   

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[amsat-bb] Re: More Future Thoughts

[Tony Langdon]

At 11:13 PM 7/4/2009, Jeff Davis wrote:

>What about other orbits that may not be as desirable as HEO but that offer
>better coverage than low-earth?
>
>I recall reading something from G0RMF about adapting a CubeSat to include
>some sort of a propulsion system to get to a mid-Earth orbit:

This idea does have merit.  As you've implied, we'd probably never 
get a ride directly to such an orbit, so some means of (relatively) 
foolproof and (relatively) inexpensive means of propulsion would need 
to be utilised.

Someone would also need to do the delta-V calculations, to see what 
sort of orbit would be feasible for such a small satellite to 
achieve.   There's also the possible issue of the satellite spending 
most of its life in the Van Allen belts, unless we can get the 
altitude "just right".

73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com

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[amsat-bb] Subject: Re: Antenna Question

[Mike Ryan]

QHTenna was back for a little while in 2008 but is again no longer making 
antennas for Amateurs. This is the last website.

http://www.qhtenna.com 

I have a pair of his antennas. They were your basic turnstile (no reflector ) 
made of aluminum rods and PVC. They did the job as omnis go and I'm still using 
them. Like most omnis a preamp greatly improves the experience. My primary 
antennas for LEO Sats now are the WAVJB cheap yagis. 8 element 440 and 3 
elements 2M all on same boom at 15 degrees fixed elevation. I went with PVC 
instead of wood construction as it was easier to weather proof. 

As for other omnis, QST also recently (Nov 2008) reviewed a QFH (quadrifilar) 
from antennas.us and really liked it. Its more expensive than a turnstile.  
QFHs have a good reputation for performance and a bad reputation for 
construction, particularly on 440. I tried several times to build one to no 
avail though I've managed to build functional Eggbeater and Moxons.  The 
Eggbeater (no reflector) performed about the same as the turnstile. The Moxon 
was fantastic over 30 degrees or so but pretty poor below that. Made sense 
since its similar to a 2 element beam pointing at the sky.

I rather had my eye on the antennas.us model but havent gotten around to buying 
one yet.  

Mike WB1AAT



Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:54:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Jerzycke 
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question
To: amsat bb , George Henry 
Message-ID: <237207.42610...@web80606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

The product review is in the August 2004 QST. If you have access to the reviews 
page you can find it under the "Q" listings by manufacturer.
Jim? KQ6EA

--- On Sat, 7/4/09, George Henry  wrote:

From: George Henry 
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question
To: "amsat bb" 
Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 8:51 AM

Sounds like the "QHTennas", made by N4QH.? Reviewed in QST in 2005, then he 
stopped producing them just a few months later.
Near as I could figure out, they are a conventional turnstile design, but 
with the 2 dipoles separated by the length of the phasing line, and no 
reflector.

George, KA3HSW

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[amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question

[Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF]

I would suggest that you don't need a phasing line if the dipoles are spaces a 
quarter wave and that both are fed by 
equal length cables.

George Henry wrote:

> Looking at the pictures, it appears that the dipoles are separated by about 
> 1/4 wave in free space, which is physically longer than a 1/4 wave phasing 
> line would be.  And I'd think that the phasing line would have to be 1/2 
> wavelength, after introducing a 1/4 wave offset between the dipoles, 
> correct?
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[amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question

[George Henry]

Yeah, I found the review on the ARRL web site by searching for "QHTenna".

Looking at the pictures, it appears that the dipoles are separated by about 
1/4 wave in free space, which is physically longer than a 1/4 wave phasing 
line would be.  And I'd think that the phasing line would have to be 1/2 
wavelength, after introducing a 1/4 wave offset between the dipoles, 
correct?

In answer to Joel's original question, there is a link at www.qhtenna.com 
for questions or support for owners of existing QHTennas.

They should be pretty easy to duplicate, at any rate.


George, KA3HSW


- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Jerzycke" 
To: "amsat bb" ; "George Henry" 
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question


The product review is in the August 2004 QST. If you have access to the 
reviews page you can find it under the "Q" listings by manufacturer.
Jim KQ6EA

--- On Sat, 7/4/09, George Henry  wrote:

From: George Henry 
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question
To: "amsat bb" 
Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 8:51 AM

Sounds like the "QHTennas", made by N4QH. Reviewed in QST in 2005, then he
stopped producing them just a few months later.
Near as I could figure out, they are a conventional turnstile design, but
with the 2 dipoles separated by the length of the phasing line, and no
reflector.

George, KA3HSW

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[amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is not our future

[Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF]

You mean no orbiting nuclear power station?

john heath wrote:
>
> 
> I don't believe there is any likelyhood that we can fly a radioactive source 
> on an amateur radio payload.
> 
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[amsat-bb] The Moon is not our future

[john heath]

Thanks to all contributors for an enjoyable thread, with some very 
interesting ideas, however, there is a fundamental obstacle to transponders 
on the Moon. The science packages used and left on the Moon by the Apollo 
astonauts had radioactive heat sources which prevented the electronics from 
being destroyed by the extreem cold of the lunar night.

I don't believe there is any likelyhood that we can fly a radioactive source 
on an amateur radio payload.

73 John G7HIA 

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[amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is our Future / antennas

[i8cvs]

- Original Message -
From: 
To: ; 
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 1:21 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Moon is our Future / antennas
>
> In a message dated 03/07/2009 20:46:44 GMT Standard Time,
> kd6...@comcast.net writes:
>
> Building  a prototype that works on Earth for project like this is only a
> few percent of  the effort required. Treating it as a radio club project
> won't be effective as  people need to sign up for a 5-year project.
>
> Hi all.
>
> John is absolutely right in saying the complexity cannot be easily
> compared to a terrestrial radio project. One other thing that stands an
> almost zero chance of succeeding is a dish antenna that needs to point
> towards the earth. If  NASA and the ISS have trouble with moving parts
> on the solar array you can  imagine how much more difficult it would
> be on the moon.
>
> However, how about this.
> The problem with the higher bands is power generation / path loss /
> antenna gain. Any higher band like 1.2, 2.4 or 5.8G would need a high
> gain antenna to offset the increased path loss.
>
> But, instead of a conventional steerable dishwith its unreliable
> moving joints...How about an electrically steerable array of patches /
> dipoles / or any  other type of antenna element.
>
> But how to 'point' it?
>
> Well. actually I think Tom Clark provided the answer for that  with his
> proposal of a few years ago.  The principle is this: If you have 2
> arrays. One say on 5.6G uplink and one on 5.8G downlink, then the
> receiving array can electrically look in different directions for a signal
> from the Earth.
> Once the receiver has identified a signal and optimised the RX  Antenna,
> the information on the direction of the Earth i.e. the direction of the
> strongest incoming signal can be used to configure the transmit array
> which will then beam a signal back to earth with high ERP.
>
> Directional, high gain, and no moving parts.
>
> Thanks
>
> David  G0MRF

Hi David, G0MRF

The following article from G3RUH is a good additional answere to your
message.

http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/110.html

I have extracted from it the most important following part:

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

Extracted from G3RUH article "THE EARTH MOVES"

> Moon Downlink

> The maximum total excursion of 9.5° is the same as the beamwidth of a 5
> wavelength diameter dish antenna. This has a gain of some 20 dbi, and
> represents an upper limit for an unsteered Moon-based antenna. However the
> higher the frequency used, the smaller mechanically is the antenna, which
> makes 2.4 or 5.6 GHz a good choice. Five wavelengths is 60 cm and 26 cm
> diameter respectively; quite small.

> For a given TX e.i.r.p., signal strength received at Earth depends only on
> the mechanical size of the RX antenna; frequency is irrelevant [1]. Noise
> level however is not, and S-band (2.4 GHz) is a sensible downlink choice
> because very low noise performance is robustly obtainable "off the shelf".

> An example, 1 watt transmitted from a 20 dbi gain dish on the Moon,
> received on a 1.2m dish at Earth with a system noise temperature of 100K
> results in a signal to noise ratio in 2.4 kHz bandwidth of 10.5 db. (Note
> that frequency matters not). This would support one rather noisy SSB voice
> signal.
> Alternatively it would carry an error-free 2400 bps binary PSK data
> transmission without coding, 9600 bps with modest coding [2].



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[amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question

[Jim Jerzycke]

The product review is in the August 2004 QST. If you have access to the reviews 
page you can find it under the "Q" listings by manufacturer.
Jim  KQ6EA

--- On Sat, 7/4/09, George Henry  wrote:

From: George Henry 
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question
To: "amsat bb" 
Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 8:51 AM

Sounds like the "QHTennas", made by N4QH.  Reviewed in QST in 2005, then he 
stopped producing them just a few months later.
Near as I could figure out, they are a conventional turnstile design, but 
with the 2 dipoles separated by the length of the phasing line, and no 
reflector.

George, KA3HSW


- Original Message - 
From: "Joel Black" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 9:50 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Antenna Question


Happy Independence Day.

Does anyone recognize the following antennas?  I purchased them years
ago and they were part of a system I never installed.  Over the years,
one of the elements has been damaged and, even though I can fix it
myself, I'd like to know who made these.

Doggonit, I cannot upload to my webpage (something else yet to figure
out).  Suffice it to say, my description may not do the antennas
justice.  There are two of them, a 2m and 70cm made out of sched 40
PVC.  They appear to be a "turnstile" type antenna with two aluminum
elements at the top and two at the  bottom 90° out of phase from each
other (top and bottom).  In other words, if looking at a compass, the
top two elements would be at N and S, the bottom two at E and W.  This
is the same on both antennas as they are a matching set.

These antennas were in an old QST, but I have since gotten rid of all
those magazines and cannot find the article online.  Any ideas or
suggestions?

Tnx,
Joel, W4JBB


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[amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question

[R. Chastain]

Oh My! Somebody else has my warped sence of humor:-) Just ask my granddaughter. 
I goof with her all the time with stuff like this.
Like when she asks to get on the computer and I tell her she will break it if 
she does:-)

RoD
KD0XX

--- On Sat, 7/4/09, David - KG4ZLB  wrote:

> From: David - KG4ZLB 
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question
> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 11:28 AM
> How can you upload a web page if you
> have your "dog on it" ? Move the 
> dog first then try! ;-)
> 
> Happy 4th all!
> 
> 73
> 
> -- 
> David
> KG4ZLB
> www.kg4zlb.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joel Black wrote:
> > Happy Independence Day.
> >
> >
> >
> > Doggonit, I cannot upload to my webpage (something
> else yet to figure 
> > out).  
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> ___
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> Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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> satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 


  

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[amsat-bb] Re: More Future Thoughts

[James French]

On Sat, 2009-07-04 at 09:13 -0400, Jeff Davis wrote:
> It's interesting to watch how the desperation to have assets in high orbit 
> has driven the ideas ever more grandiose here on the old -BB. We've moved 
> from putting a "simple" transponder (as if there were such a thing) 35,000 
> miles over our head to landing a repeater a quarter million miles away on 
> the Moon and using robotic rovers to lay directional antennas along the 
> lunar surface...

Yes, people have grandiose designs and wishes for life.

> 
> What's next, a Jovian constellation of amateur satellites?
> 
> This is almost directly the result of having added the "government" into the 
> fictional scenario. Whenever a new idea starts with, "maybe we can get the 
> government to give us a ride..." then what follows can be as ostentatious as 
> we like because of the perception that the government can afford to do 
> really BIG things.

I brought 'government' up as an entity that we night help shave a few
dollars off a proposed project that MIGHT come up to supply the
transponder equipment for. I never mentioned anything about a financial
gain for AMSAT.

> 
> And we invariably try to justify that they should want to do this because of 
> "emergency communication".

This was NEVER brought up during the discussion about placing a
transponder on the Moon. NEVER!!

> 
> It would seem to be more constructive to substitute the words "big magical 
> genie" in your plans everywhere you use the word "government" or "NASA". 
> That way when you write, "if we could just get a big magical genie to give 
> us a ride to the Moon..." the reality will sink in and it probably won't 
> seem like such a grand idea before it sees the light of day.

As I mentioned a moment ago, I never said anything about financial gains
from ANY government. I mentioned 'IF' we could get a ride, MAYBE we
could help justify it with providing equipment.

> 
> We need to disabuse ourselves of the ridiculous notion that the government 
> is anxious and willing to stuff our pockets with cash just because "when all 
> else fails". Need we be reminded that we're in the midst of the worst global 
> economic recession since the great depression? Tax revenues are low while 
> debt is unbelievably high. Politicians may be stupid but they're going to 
> easily sniff out the nonsense of spending millions of dollars so a few 
> hundred radio hams can enjoy their high-tech hobby.
> 
> (And who really wants  them to do that anyway? What would be your reaction 
> if you read the news tomorrow that the government was going to spend $20 
> million tax dollars to help promote Frisbee golf, coin collecting, or some 
> other hobby?)

In the current scheme of things, it wouldn't surprise me that ANY
government is supporting ANY hobby with admendments and pork-belly
add-ons to things right now. Do you read everything that ANY government
proposes to make sure they are spending the taxpayers money CORRECTLY?

> 
> When life gives you lemons you make lemonade. We can't get to HEO, so what 
> can we do?
> 
> I think our best option is to create a lot more interesting things to do at 
> LEO since we know we can get there; but let's make sure we aren't leaving a 
> stone un-turned.
> 
> What about other orbits that may not be as desirable as HEO but that offer 
> better coverage than low-earth?
> 
> I recall reading something from G0RMF about adapting a CubeSat to include 
> some sort of a propulsion system to get to a mid-Earth orbit:
> 
> http://g0mrf.com/MEOSAT.htm
> 
> I have no idea if this is viable, but it seems to me that if we want to 
> place assets higher than LEO these are the kinds of ideas we should be 
> kicking around on the BB and perhaps leave the moon base installation ideas 
> for AMSAT members in 2050 to figure out how to make work and to fund.

And I have no idea if any of these things that everyone is talking about
is viable given the current state of economy. Things have changed and
not for the better for ANYONE. NOTHING is for free and if offered for
'free', I would take a good look to see why it was free and what it was
going to cost me in the long run.

The only thing we as AMSAT can do right now is think of ideas and make
suggestions right now. AMSAT has plans for making 'off-the-shelf'
transponders that would be ready for a ride if the option comes up. But
the kicker is, what should that transponder be? L/s? U/v? S/u? V/v?
Personally, I am tired of V/u transponders. There is NO challenge in
that mode anymore. Been there, done that! I want the challenge of the
higher frequencies - 1.2GHz, 2.4GHz, 3.4GHZ, 5.7GHz, and 10GHz, even
24GHz. AO-40 should that 24GHz was feasible. 

AMSAT as a whole (I mean the membership) needs a new challenge and dream
that will bring out the very best in it to build what ever comes up. The
Moon could be that new challenge as we have NEVER designed anything that
would actually LAND and operate in that hostile environment. Is it
viable, who knows! We ca

[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Forum videos from Dayton Hamvention

[David - KG4ZLB]

Yes indeed. Richard's presentation at the AMSAT forum was a much shorter 
version of the one he gave at the Banquet the night before and it would 
be great to have that in the archives.

73

-- 
David
KG4ZLB
www.kg4zlb.com




Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
> Hi Steve!
>
>   
>
> Thanks for your work with the camcorder at Dayton!  During the
> AMSAT Forum, I had asked if videos would be made available in
> some form - and it's nice that they have.  I will look at them when
> I return home tomorrow, and have access to broadband.
>
> A question... regarding Richard Garriott, you uploaded one video of
> Richard speaking during the AMSAT Forum at the HamVention:
>
>   
>
> Is there any chance of posting Richard's talk at the AMSAT/TAPR
> Banquet the night before the AMSAT Forum?   I thought I saw you
> with the camcorder there as well.  That talk was longer, and would
> be a great addition to what Richard said at the Forum.
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>
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>
>   

-- 
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KG4ZLB
www.kg4zlb.com

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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Forum videos from Dayton Hamvention

[Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)]

Hi Steve!

> Videos of the six presentations at the AMSAT Forum at the
> 2009 Dayton Hamvention are now on the AMSAT website.  Click on
> this link
>
> http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/information/videoNews.php
>
> or go to the AMSAT website and click on AMSAT Video News about
> halfway down the page in the left column.

Thanks for your work with the camcorder at Dayton!  During the
AMSAT Forum, I had asked if videos would be made available in
some form - and it's nice that they have.  I will look at them when
I return home tomorrow, and have access to broadband.

A question... regarding Richard Garriott, you uploaded one video of
Richard speaking during the AMSAT Forum at the HamVention:

> 1.  Richard Garriott's forum talk (mislabeled on the web site as the
> Banquet presentation, actual length about 15 minutes) on his visit to the ISS.

Is there any chance of posting Richard's talk at the AMSAT/TAPR
Banquet the night before the AMSAT Forum?   I thought I saw you
with the camcorder there as well.  That talk was longer, and would
be a great addition to what Richard said at the Forum.

73!




Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/

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[amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question

[George Henry]

Sounds like the "QHTennas", made by N4QH.  Reviewed in QST in 2005, then he 
stopped producing them just a few months later.
Near as I could figure out, they are a conventional turnstile design, but 
with the 2 dipoles separated by the length of the phasing line, and no 
reflector.

George, KA3HSW


- Original Message - 
From: "Joel Black" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 9:50 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Antenna Question


Happy Independence Day.

Does anyone recognize the following antennas?  I purchased them years
ago and they were part of a system I never installed.  Over the years,
one of the elements has been damaged and, even though I can fix it
myself, I'd like to know who made these.

Doggonit, I cannot upload to my webpage (something else yet to figure
out).  Suffice it to say, my description may not do the antennas
justice.  There are two of them, a 2m and 70cm made out of sched 40
PVC.  They appear to be a "turnstile" type antenna with two aluminum
elements at the top and two at the  bottom 90° out of phase from each
other (top and bottom).  In other words, if looking at a compass, the
top two elements would be at N and S, the bottom two at E and W.  This
is the same on both antennas as they are a matching set.

These antennas were in an old QST, but I have since gotten rid of all
those magazines and cannot find the article online.  Any ideas or
suggestions?

Tnx,
Joel, W4JBB


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[amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question

[David - KG4ZLB]

How can you upload a web page if you have your "dog on it" ? Move the 
dog first then try! ;-)

Happy 4th all!

73

-- 
David
KG4ZLB
www.kg4zlb.com




Joel Black wrote:
> Happy Independence Day.
>
>
>
> Doggonit, I cannot upload to my webpage (something else yet to figure 
> out).  
>
>
>
>   

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[amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is our Future / antennas

[john hackett]

Hello David,
Principally, the same as the Fyllingsdales BMEWS steerable 
phased array, yes ??.

We have some info on it on OBSERVATIONS.

 From: g0...@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 19:21:08 -0400
> To: kd6...@comcast.net; amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb]  The Moon is our Future / antennas
> 
>  
> In a message dated 03/07/2009 20:46:44 GMT Standard Time,  
> kd6...@comcast.net writes:
> 
> Building  a prototype that works on Earth for project like this is only a 
> few percent of  the effort required. Treating it as a radio club project 
> won't be effective as  people need to sign up for a 5-year project.
> 
> 
> Hi all.
>  
> John is absolutely right in saying the complexity cannot be easily compared 
>  to a terrestrial radio project. One other thing that stands an almost zero 
>  chance of succeeding is a dish antenna that needs to point towards the 
> earth. If  NASA and the ISS have trouble with moving parts on the solar array 
> you can  imagine how much more difficult it would be on the moon.
>  
> However, how about this.
> The problem with the higher bands is power generation / path loss / antenna 
>  gain. Any higher band like 1.2, 2.4 or 5.8G would need a high gain antenna 
>  to offset the increased path loss.
>  
> But, instead of a conventional steerable dishwith its unreliable moving 
>  joints...How about an electrically steerable array of patches / dipoles / 
> or any  other type of antenna element.
>  
> But how to 'point' it?
>  
> Well. actually I think Tom Clark provided the answer for that  with his 
> proposal of a few years ago.  The principle is this: If you have 2  arrays. 
> One 
> say on 5.6G uplink and one on 5.8G downlink, then the receiving  array can 
> electrically look in different directions for a signal from the  Earth.  
> Once the receiver has identified a signal and optimised the RX  Antenna, the 
> information on the direction of the Earth i.e. the direction of the  
> strongest 
> incoming signal can be used to configure the transmit array which will  
> then beam a signal back to earth with high ERP.
>  
> Directional, high gain, and no moving parts.
>  
> Thanks
>  
> David  G0MRF
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[amsat-bb] Antenna Question

[Joel Black]

Happy Independence Day.

Does anyone recognize the following antennas?  I purchased them years 
ago and they were part of a system I never installed.  Over the years, 
one of the elements has been damaged and, even though I can fix it 
myself, I'd like to know who made these.

Doggonit, I cannot upload to my webpage (something else yet to figure 
out).  Suffice it to say, my description may not do the antennas 
justice.  There are two of them, a 2m and 70cm made out of sched 40 
PVC.  They appear to be a "turnstile" type antenna with two aluminum 
elements at the top and two at the  bottom 90° out of phase from each 
other (top and bottom).  In other words, if looking at a compass, the 
top two elements would be at N and S, the bottom two at E and W.  This 
is the same on both antennas as they are a matching set.

These antennas were in an old QST, but I have since gotten rid of all 
those magazines and cannot find the article online.  Any ideas or 
suggestions?

Tnx,
Joel, W4JBB


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[amsat-bb] More Future Thoughts

[Jeff Davis]

It's interesting to watch how the desperation to have assets in high orbit 
has driven the ideas ever more grandiose here on the old -BB. We've moved 
from putting a "simple" transponder (as if there were such a thing) 35,000 
miles over our head to landing a repeater a quarter million miles away on 
the Moon and using robotic rovers to lay directional antennas along the 
lunar surface...

What's next, a Jovian constellation of amateur satellites?

This is almost directly the result of having added the "government" into the 
fictional scenario. Whenever a new idea starts with, "maybe we can get the 
government to give us a ride..." then what follows can be as ostentatious as 
we like because of the perception that the government can afford to do 
really BIG things.

And we invariably try to justify that they should want to do this because of 
"emergency communication".

It would seem to be more constructive to substitute the words "big magical 
genie" in your plans everywhere you use the word "government" or "NASA". 
That way when you write, "if we could just get a big magical genie to give 
us a ride to the Moon..." the reality will sink in and it probably won't 
seem like such a grand idea before it sees the light of day.

We need to disabuse ourselves of the ridiculous notion that the government 
is anxious and willing to stuff our pockets with cash just because "when all 
else fails". Need we be reminded that we're in the midst of the worst global 
economic recession since the great depression? Tax revenues are low while 
debt is unbelievably high. Politicians may be stupid but they're going to 
easily sniff out the nonsense of spending millions of dollars so a few 
hundred radio hams can enjoy their high-tech hobby.

(And who really wants  them to do that anyway? What would be your reaction 
if you read the news tomorrow that the government was going to spend $20 
million tax dollars to help promote Frisbee golf, coin collecting, or some 
other hobby?)

When life gives you lemons you make lemonade. We can't get to HEO, so what 
can we do?

I think our best option is to create a lot more interesting things to do at 
LEO since we know we can get there; but let's make sure we aren't leaving a 
stone un-turned.

What about other orbits that may not be as desirable as HEO but that offer 
better coverage than low-earth?

I recall reading something from G0RMF about adapting a CubeSat to include 
some sort of a propulsion system to get to a mid-Earth orbit:

http://g0mrf.com/MEOSAT.htm

I have no idea if this is viable, but it seems to me that if we want to 
place assets higher than LEO these are the kinds of ideas we should be 
kicking around on the BB and perhaps leave the moon base installation ideas 
for AMSAT members in 2050 to figure out how to make work and to fund.

-- 
73 de Jeff, KE9V
AMSAT-NA
AMSAT-DL






 

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[amsat-bb] Re: SuitSat-II question

[Gould Smith]

Greg has picked up on the basic point of the endeavor for AMSAT.  We are 
learning about and developing a modular system that will be adaptable to 
many projects. This particular project is useful for both ARISS and AMSAT

We will have an array of building blocks to configure for missions as they 
become available, as well as test new technology.

Gould
- Original Message - 
From: "Greg D." 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 10:17 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] SuitSat-II question



Hi folks,

I just watched the video of Gould Smith talking about SuitSat-II.  Nice job.

But it left me wondering...  With a new battery, solar cells, custom 
electronics package, switches, and antennas, what is the Suit itself needed 
for?  At least in the original SuitSat, we used the battery pack (I think), 
and even that's being replaced.

Don't get me wrong, the use of the suit is a marketing master-stroke.  But 
am I right that it's basically only there for support (both mechanically and 
politically)?

Greg  KO6TH


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[amsat-bb] Re: SuitSat-II question

[Rich Dailey (Gmail)]

>Don't get me wrong, the use of the suit is a marketing master-stroke.  But am 
>I right that it's basically only there for support (both mechanically and 
>politically)?

Yeah, I think it's mostly for media impact.  The sight of a lifeless suit 
floating away from
the station is Stanley Kubrick-ish creepy.

Rich, N8UX 

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