[android-developers] Any proposed changes to the Android Market?

2010-10-06 Thread ses 
While Android as a platform and the Market itself offer some brilliant
features to genuine app developers who want to produce high quality
mobile applications, they also open up the Market to sub-standard apps
which obscure other, perhaps more worthwhile ones.

Of course the quality and appropriateness of apps are matters of
opinion, and I wouldn't want a dictatorial approach, but are there any
plans for a moderation of apps on the Market?

Do other developers agree that some apps which clearly don't work or
are so poor quality they could be deemed a waste of time should be
removed, and do they think this (or any other approach) might raise
the bar in terms of applications and stimulate Android app downloads?

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Re: [android-developers] Any proposed changes to the Android Market?

2010-10-06 Thread Kumar Bibek 
True. Some apps are just crap. But to do this, Google should setup a team
specifically for this purpose, which as far as I know, is not being planned
yet in the near future.

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:56 PM, ses  wrote:

> While Android as a platform and the Market itself offer some brilliant
> features to genuine app developers who want to produce high quality
> mobile applications, they also open up the Market to sub-standard apps
> which obscure other, perhaps more worthwhile ones.
>
> Of course the quality and appropriateness of apps are matters of
> opinion, and I wouldn't want a dictatorial approach, but are there any
> plans for a moderation of apps on the Market?
>
> Do other developers agree that some apps which clearly don't work or
> are so poor quality they could be deemed a waste of time should be
> removed, and do they think this (or any other approach) might raise
> the bar in terms of applications and stimulate Android app downloads?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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http://www.kbeanie.com

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Re: [android-developers] Any proposed changes to the Android Market?

2010-10-06 Thread TreKing 
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:26 AM, ses  wrote:

> are there any plans for a moderation of apps on the Market?
>

Don't count on it.


>  Do other developers agree that some apps which clearly don't work or are
> so poor quality they could be deemed a waste of time should be removed, and
> do they think this (or any other approach) might raise the bar in terms of
> applications and stimulate Android app downloads?
>

Wholeheartedly.

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Kumar Bibek  wrote:

> But to do this, Google should setup a team specifically for this purpose,
> which as far as I know, is not being planned yet in the near future.


There's no need a for a dedicated team. Why not let the community deal with
it? All they have to do is program the Market to automatically eject any
apps that are deemed to be garbage by the community. This would be a factor
of low rating and being flagged as "inappropriate". Get a low enough rating
and enough flags and you're voted off the island. If you want back in you
have to contact Google Customer Support. In other words, you'd never be
allowed back. The mass of spam would be quickly eliminated and it would cost
Google nothing more than the initial setup.

The day I no longer see crapps from M Star LLC or Michael Quach will be a
joyous day indeed.

-
TreKing  - Chicago
transit tracking app for Android-powered devices

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Re: [android-developers] Any proposed changes to the Android Market?

2010-10-06 Thread Kumar Bibek 
>>There's no need a for a dedicated team. Why not let the community deal
with it? All they have to do is >>program the Market to automatically eject
any apps that are deemed to be garbage by the community.

Yep, but this might not be a fool proof method. Say, a competitor dev can
easily go and mark a new entrant as spam, and leave negative comments. 15-20
such comments and spam flags would obviously be a disadvantage for the new
app.



On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:15 AM, TreKing  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:26 AM, ses  wrote:
>
>> are there any plans for a moderation of apps on the Market?
>>
>
> Don't count on it.
>
>
>>  Do other developers agree that some apps which clearly don't work or are
>> so poor quality they could be deemed a waste of time should be removed, and
>> do they think this (or any other approach) might raise the bar in terms of
>> applications and stimulate Android app downloads?
>>
>
> Wholeheartedly.
>
> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Kumar Bibek  wrote:
>
>> But to do this, Google should setup a team specifically for this purpose,
>> which as far as I know, is not being planned yet in the near future.
>
>
> There's no need a for a dedicated team. Why not let the community deal with
> it? All they have to do is program the Market to automatically eject any
> apps that are deemed to be garbage by the community. This would be a factor
> of low rating and being flagged as "inappropriate". Get a low enough rating
> and enough flags and you're voted off the island. If you want back in you
> have to contact Google Customer Support. In other words, you'd never be
> allowed back. The mass of spam would be quickly eliminated and it would cost
> Google nothing more than the initial setup.
>
> The day I no longer see crapps from M Star LLC or Michael Quach will be a
> joyous day indeed.
>
>
> -
> TreKing  - Chicago
> transit tracking app for Android-powered devices
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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-- 
Kumar Bibek
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http://www.kbeanie.com

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Re: [android-developers] Any proposed changes to the Android Market?

2010-10-06 Thread TreKing 
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Kumar Bibek  wrote:

> Yep, but this might not be a fool proof method. Say, a competitor dev can
> easily go and mark a new entrant as spam, and leave negative comments. 15-20
> such comments and spam flags would obviously be a disadvantage for the new
> app.


Of course, but in my mind it would take a considerable amount of "votes" to
get one ejected - certainly more than 15-20, which still would require a
dedicated effort by either a lot of individual competitors or a single
company instructing their employees to use such tactics, which one would
hope is the exception, not the norm.

And of course there would be other criteria. For example, if one developer
has 200+ apps, with an average rating of 2 stars and each app has been
flagged as spam at least 100 unique times over the course of time, it's fair
to assume they're worthless spammers.

I'm sure some clever Google Engineer could come up with a fairly reliable
algorithm for Market spam detection.
A "20% time project", perhaps?

-
TreKing  - Chicago
transit tracking app for Android-powered devices

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Re: [android-developers] Any proposed changes to the Android Market?

2010-10-06 Thread Kumar Bibek 
Agree, but before removing such an app, Google should atleast intimate the
dev the reason, else, it won't be fair for the developer. And for this,
someone will definitely have to checkout the app in person, before taking it
down.

Also, if Google wishes to include such a condition in Terms and Conditions,
say for example, if you app has 2000 downloads with avg rating of 1.5 stars,
your app will be automatically removed, I am not sure, if all the devs would
like this.

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:33 AM, TreKing  wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Kumar Bibek  wrote:
>
>> Yep, but this might not be a fool proof method. Say, a competitor dev can
>> easily go and mark a new entrant as spam, and leave negative comments. 15-20
>> such comments and spam flags would obviously be a disadvantage for the new
>> app.
>
>
> Of course, but in my mind it would take a considerable amount of "votes" to
> get one ejected - certainly more than 15-20, which still would require a
> dedicated effort by either a lot of individual competitors or a single
> company instructing their employees to use such tactics, which one would
> hope is the exception, not the norm.
>
> And of course there would be other criteria. For example, if one developer
> has 200+ apps, with an average rating of 2 stars and each app has been
> flagged as spam at least 100 unique times over the course of time, it's fair
> to assume they're worthless spammers.
>
> I'm sure some clever Google Engineer could come up with a fairly reliable
> algorithm for Market spam detection.
> A "20% time project", perhaps?
>
>
>
> -
> TreKing  - Chicago
> transit tracking app for Android-powered devices
>
>  --
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>



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Re: [android-developers] Any proposed changes to the Android Market?

2010-10-06 Thread TreKing 
Rereading the OP, I think I veered a little OT (again). ses is talking about
moderating quality (which is much more difficult and I don't think needs to
be done or should be) while I'm specifically talking moderating the spam
(which automatically implies poor quality).

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Kumar Bibek  wrote:

> Agree, but before removing such an app, Google should atleast intimate the
> dev the reason, else, it won't be fair for the developer. And for this,
> someone will definitely have to checkout the app in person, before taking it
> down.
>

Google wouldn't have to do anything unless the developer challenged the
"eviction". That's why I said you'd have to contact Google Support to get
re-listed. I'd love to see a spammer take the time to go through that hassle
and try to defend their actions.


> Also, if Google wishes to include such a condition in Terms and Conditions,
> say for example, if you app has 2000 downloads with avg rating of 1.5 stars,
> your app will be automatically removed, I am not sure, if all the devs would
> like this.
>

Honestly, the only devs that wouldn't like this are the ones that are
causing the problem to begin with. Any self-respecting developer with a
half-decent app can stay above 3 stars. And even if an app is utter crap,
I'm saying it would still have to be flagged as spam A LOT before being
pulled.

Crap apps that don't spam or fake updates to get in the Just In list don't
bother anyone. It's the dicks that flood the market with "updates" every day
to get the just-in bump that need to be forcibly and permanently removed.

-
TreKing  - Chicago
transit tracking app for Android-powered devices

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Re: [android-developers] Any proposed changes to the Android Market?

2010-10-06 Thread Brad Gies 

 The market does this by default already

They only have roughly 22 categories, and there are 70,000 apps... which 
means roughly 3,000 apps per category, and they only show 800...


If your app is in the bottom half of your category... it's effectively 
not there :).


Not to say the Market works well at all but in this case it's 
filtering out the worst of the worst by default :).


But, as long as the Market is the only game in town, it's probably not 
possible for Google to filter it because they are effectively a monopoly 
and not allowing any app would be a PR nightmare. Apple doesn't really 
have the same problem because they are not even trying to claim any kind 
of openness.



Sincerely,

Brad Gies
---
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---

Everything in moderation, including abstinence

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can
change the world. Indeed. It is the only thing that ever has - Margaret Mead


On 06/10/2010 1:08 PM, Kumar Bibek wrote:
Agree, but before removing such an app, Google should atleast intimate 
the dev the reason, else, it won't be fair for the developer. And for 
this, someone will definitely have to checkout the app in person, 
before taking it down.


Also, if Google wishes to include such a condition in Terms and 
Conditions, say for example, if you app has 2000 downloads with avg 
rating of 1.5 stars, your app will be automatically removed, I am not 
sure, if all the devs would like this.


On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 1:33 AM, TreKing > wrote:


On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Kumar Bibek mailto:coomar@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yep, but this might not be a fool proof method. Say, a
competitor dev can easily go and mark a new entrant as spam,
and leave negative comments. 15-20 such comments and spam
flags would obviously be a disadvantage for the new app.


Of course, but in my mind it would take a considerable amount of
"votes" to get one ejected - certainly more than 15-20, which
still would require a dedicated effort by either a lot of
individual competitors or a single company instructing their
employees to use such tactics, which one would hope is the
exception, not the norm.

And of course there would be other criteria. For example, if one
developer has 200+ apps, with an average rating of 2 stars and
each app has been flagged as spam at least 100 unique times over
the course of time, it's fair to assume they're worthless spammers.

I'm sure some clever Google Engineer could come up with a fairly
reliable algorithm for Market spam detection.
A "20% time project", perhaps?



-
TreKing  -
Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices

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Re: [android-developers] Any proposed changes to the Android Market?

2010-10-07 Thread TreKing 
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:33 PM, Brad Gies  wrote:

> If your app is in the bottom half of your category... it's effectively not
> there :).


Unless you have 200+ apps and update a set of them every day in a weekly
rotation to continuously hog the Just-In list. Then you're ALWAYS there,
regardless of how low you're actually rated or ranked.

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TreKing  - Chicago
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