[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

[Andrew Muller]

Another is "Professional Adobe Flex 2" from WROX coming out in late
May, I wrote the chapter on Flex & ColdFusion!

http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Adobe-Flex-Rich-Tretola/dp/0470102675/ref=sr_1_19/102-7215316-8897767?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177742392&sr=1-19

Andrew

On 28/04/07, Angus Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ryan your best bet to get a good feel for Flex is Total Training for Adobe
> Flex 2: Rich Internet Applications. It's an example flex project from
> beginning to end. It doesn't get bogged down in all the class functionality
> and covers all the important topics, right up to flex data services. It's
> "the" resource for the exam IMO.
>
> The one I am waiting for at the moment is Programming Flex 2. The sample
> chapters are well written...
> http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/progflex.html .
> Due in April 2007.
>
> Others.. Advanced ActionScript 3 with Design Patterns, ActionScript 3.0
> Cookbook
>
> Cheers
> Angus

---
Andrew Muller
http://www.webqem.com

linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/151/905

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[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

[Peter Tilbrook]

Our UG library has a couple (all of them I think):

Adobe Flex 2: Training from the Source

http://www.actcfug.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=LibraryView&LibraryID=70

Recommended as this deals with CF integration more.

and:

Developing Rich Clients with Macromedia Flex

http://www.actcfug.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=LibraryView&LibraryID=6

also have:

ActionScript 3.0 Cookbook

http://www.actcfug.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=LibraryView&LibraryID=66

Getting quite a varied library now with 74
books(Office
2007 Missing Manual is on the way).


-- 
Peter Tilbrook
ColdGen Internet Solutions
President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
PO Box 2247
Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
AUSTRALIA

http://www.coldgen.com/
http://www.actcfug.com/

Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
Mob: +61-0432-897-437

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MSN Messenger Live: Desktop General

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[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

[Scott Barnes]

Jeremy when I get back feel free to raid my bookshelf as i have a few
FLEX 3 books you can borrow...

(sorry assumed you had books man, you could of told me that earlier)

On 4/28/07,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Angus,
>
> Yeah I 'm reading one at the moment written by some of the programmers
> at Adobe. It's pretty basic good to get a starting point. But Ted
> Patrick suggested the ActionScript3.0 Cookbook and the one that is Due
> in April.
> I have my order in already.
>
> Jeremy
>
> On Apr 28, 1:51 pm, "Angus Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ryan your best bet to get a good feel for Flex is Total Training for Adobe
> > Flex 2: Rich Internet Applications. It's an example flex project from
> > beginning to end. It doesn't get bogged down in all the class functionality
> > and covers all the important topics, right up to flex data services. It's
> > "the" resource for the exam IMO.
> >
> > The one I am waiting for at the moment is Programming Flex 2. The sample
> > chapters are well 
> > written...http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/progflex.html. Due in 
> > April 2007.
> >
> > Others.. Advanced ActionScript 3 with Design Patterns, ActionScript 
> > 3.0Cookbook
> >
> > Cheers
> > Angus
> >
> > On 28/04/07,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi Toby,
> >
> > > Thanks for you input. I agree I won't give up Flex as I believe it has
> > > potential but I won't recommend it for major/minor applications. I
> > > will stick with .NET or ColdFusion. I believe the whole RIA is just
> > > still too young.
> >
> > > I will say this one more time.
> >
> > > 1. We had an external consultancy validate code and methodologies
> > > 2. The deadline wasn't missed. (yet).
> > > 3. My disappointment was two pronged.
> > >  a.) Although they explain the concepts behind Flex it really only
> > > scratches the surface.
> > >  b.) The lack of examples.
> >
> > > I had a mate of mine warn me who knows flex back to front.
> > > "Don't do a flex app or your project will fail". It hasn't failed yet
> > > but I understand what he means now.
> >
> > > I truly hope that making Flex Open source will infact increase all
> > > aspects of its programming. But until then I will stick to what I
> > > originally stated.
> > > I have told everyone in my immediate team that we will "not" be doing
> > > another Flex application until things change.
> >
> > > Jeremy.
> >
> > > On Apr 28, 12:17 pm, Toby Tremayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your
> > > > difficulties attempting to get your head around flex in so short a
> > > > time, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make:
> >
> > > > 1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard
> > > > calls the "Elevator Pitch" - showing the bells and whistles that make
> > > > things incredibly easy, and not focusing on the long term
> > > > requirements.  But to be totally honest that's no different than
> > > > allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF.  Low entry barrier -
> > > > some things are dead easy to do.  That doesn't mean you'll be able to
> > > > build complex apps in a day.  Think about it - we all know it take 2
> > > > minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view
> > > > data in a db.  But none of us assume that means we're going to be
> > > > able to write enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things
> > > > and using complex OO frameworks etc in no time.
> >
> > > > 2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't
> > > > mean you're going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a
> > > > week.  You can knock up simple little example apps in no time at all,
> > > > but if you're looking at building anything serious, you need to take
> > > > the time to understand the event model and asynchronous calls among
> > > > other things.  I don't see this at all as a failing of the language
> > > > OR of adobe.  Anyone who leaps into a new technology for a short
> > > > fixed deadline based on just the "elevator pitch" is bound to feel pain.
> >
> > > > 3)  Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web
> > > > based request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and
> > > > very RAD.  There is yet to be a language developed that just lets you
> > > > say "I want this and this and this and this" and it magically works.
> >
> > > > I hope you get the chance to give flex another try.  When I first had
> > > > at it, I was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble
> > > > shifting paradigms in my thinking.  But with the advice of people on
> > > > the lists and reading the books I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a
> > > > seriously powerful tool and is going to be very important in the not
> > > > too distant future I think.  Don't be discouraged by the fact that it
> > > > doesn't happen overnight.
> >
> > > > Toby
> >
> > > > On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 ,

[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

Hi Angus,

Yeah I 'm reading one at the moment written by some of the programmers
at Adobe. It's pretty basic good to get a starting point. But Ted
Patrick suggested the ActionScript3.0 Cookbook and the one that is Due
in April.
I have my order in already.

Jeremy

On Apr 28, 1:51 pm, "Angus Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ryan your best bet to get a good feel for Flex is Total Training for Adobe
> Flex 2: Rich Internet Applications. It's an example flex project from
> beginning to end. It doesn't get bogged down in all the class functionality
> and covers all the important topics, right up to flex data services. It's
> "the" resource for the exam IMO.
>
> The one I am waiting for at the moment is Programming Flex 2. The sample
> chapters are well 
> written...http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/progflex.html. Due in 
> April 2007.
>
> Others.. Advanced ActionScript 3 with Design Patterns, ActionScript 
> 3.0Cookbook
>
> Cheers
> Angus
>
> On 28/04/07,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Toby,
>
> > Thanks for you input. I agree I won't give up Flex as I believe it has
> > potential but I won't recommend it for major/minor applications. I
> > will stick with .NET or ColdFusion. I believe the whole RIA is just
> > still too young.
>
> > I will say this one more time.
>
> > 1. We had an external consultancy validate code and methodologies
> > 2. The deadline wasn't missed. (yet).
> > 3. My disappointment was two pronged.
> >  a.) Although they explain the concepts behind Flex it really only
> > scratches the surface.
> >  b.) The lack of examples.
>
> > I had a mate of mine warn me who knows flex back to front.
> > "Don't do a flex app or your project will fail". It hasn't failed yet
> > but I understand what he means now.
>
> > I truly hope that making Flex Open source will infact increase all
> > aspects of its programming. But until then I will stick to what I
> > originally stated.
> > I have told everyone in my immediate team that we will "not" be doing
> > another Flex application until things change.
>
> > Jeremy.
>
> > On Apr 28, 12:17 pm, Toby Tremayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your
> > > difficulties attempting to get your head around flex in so short a
> > > time, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make:
>
> > > 1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard
> > > calls the "Elevator Pitch" - showing the bells and whistles that make
> > > things incredibly easy, and not focusing on the long term
> > > requirements.  But to be totally honest that's no different than
> > > allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF.  Low entry barrier -
> > > some things are dead easy to do.  That doesn't mean you'll be able to
> > > build complex apps in a day.  Think about it - we all know it take 2
> > > minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view
> > > data in a db.  But none of us assume that means we're going to be
> > > able to write enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things
> > > and using complex OO frameworks etc in no time.
>
> > > 2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't
> > > mean you're going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a
> > > week.  You can knock up simple little example apps in no time at all,
> > > but if you're looking at building anything serious, you need to take
> > > the time to understand the event model and asynchronous calls among
> > > other things.  I don't see this at all as a failing of the language
> > > OR of adobe.  Anyone who leaps into a new technology for a short
> > > fixed deadline based on just the "elevator pitch" is bound to feel pain.
>
> > > 3)  Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web
> > > based request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and
> > > very RAD.  There is yet to be a language developed that just lets you
> > > say "I want this and this and this and this" and it magically works.
>
> > > I hope you get the chance to give flex another try.  When I first had
> > > at it, I was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble
> > > shifting paradigms in my thinking.  But with the advice of people on
> > > the lists and reading the books I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a
> > > seriously powerful tool and is going to be very important in the not
> > > too distant future I think.  Don't be discouraged by the fact that it
> > > doesn't happen overnight.
>
> > > Toby
>
> > > On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 ,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > Andrew,
>
> > > > I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate
> > > > decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions
> > > > are anaylsed to the endth degree.
> > > > And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion.
>
> > > > We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a
> > > > good time

[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Mike Kear]

For pete's sake Andrew, havent you got the message yet??

GIVE IT A REST FOR GOD's SAKE

Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month

On 4/28/07, Andrew Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Exactly Toby,
>
> Scott has no business coming here and preaching M$ in the manner he did.
>
> I am not alone on that, Scott just didn't see what he did. I have nothing
> against Scott personally, I respect him as a developer but not as an
> evangalist, he has gone about it wrong he just want listen.
>
>

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[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Andrew Scott]

Exactly Toby,

Scott has no business coming here and preaching M$ in the manner he did.

I am not alone on that, Scott just didn't see what he did. I have nothing
against Scott personally, I respect him as a developer but not as an
evangalist, he has gone about it wrong he just want listen.


On 4/28/07, Toby Tremayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Andrew I hate to be so blunt, and I'm genuinely not trying to be nasty
> here  but I think you're missing the point.  It's not just about your little
> wars with Scott Barnes - you (and several others) have a habit of regularly
> making posts that have absolutely no place on a professional mailing list.
> We're not interested in reading those kinds of diatribes, and we're
> certainly not interested in seeing people personally abused, ridiculed and
> called names.
>
>
> This is a resource for work - it used to be so good it attracted a lot of
> overseas posters.  Check back through the archives and you'll notice that
> the majority of posts now come from the same half a dozen people.  We all
> interact with the list less because we're sick of reading this garbage - I
> for one don't bother to check my cfaussie mail most of the time because I
> know it will just tick me off.
>
>
> If nothing else, do the posters of this rubbish not realise that the
> people who read this list are their potential employers and
> colleagues??  Off topic posts are one thing - all lists have them and they
> can be important.  But the sort of thing that's been posted here over the
> last year or so (and almost constantly in the last few months) is puerile,
> needless and a total waste of everyone's time.  I don't care whether you
> post on watercooler or whatever.  I do think it would be nice if you (and
> I'm using you as an example, not the source of all evil) could treat this
> professional list and the people on it with the respect they deserve.
>
>
> Toby
>
>  On 27/04/2007, at 17:07 , Andrew Scott wrote:
>
>  Let me make this clear
>
> Guilty as charged, it is very easy to attack Scott. He is young in his
> position at M$ and it shows how easy he is to please his employer. Which
> makes him an easy target, which is his own doing.
>
> I know Scott has been around long enough to value him as a developer, but
> Scott you really need to ease up on pushing M$ the way you do in a CF list.
> It's just a natural reaction from me, I am out spoken because I don't suffer
> fools lightly. And I don't value someone coming into this list and preach
> how good M$ is. Whether they are or not, I always tinker with their products
> and look at ways that can benefit my development.
>
> Like everyone else on this list, and I know there are a lot of people who
> agree that you came into this list after joining M$ and you have done
> nothing but be pushy. That has shown on more than one occasion, but I will
> agree that there is many OT and attacks and yes I am guilty. But it comes in
> defense of people just being plain stupid, or pushy or just being naive.
> Doesn't make it right either, but hey if you don't like it get out of the
> kitchen.
>
>
> Senior Coldfusion Developer
> Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
> www.aegeon.com.au
> Phone: +613  8676 4223
> Mobile: 0404 998 273
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
> Life is poetry, write it in your own words
>
>
> ---
>
>
> Toby Tremayne
> Senior Technical Consultant
> Lyricist Software
> 0416 048 090
> ICQ: 13107913
>
>
>
> >
>


-- 



Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613  8676 4223
Mobile: 0404 998 273

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[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

[Angus Johnson]

Ryan your best bet to get a good feel for Flex is Total Training for Adobe
Flex 2: Rich Internet Applications. It's an example flex project from
beginning to end. It doesn't get bogged down in all the class functionality
and covers all the important topics, right up to flex data services. It's
"the" resource for the exam IMO.

The one I am waiting for at the moment is Programming Flex 2. The sample
chapters are well written...
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/progflex.html. Due in April 2007.

Others.. Advanced ActionScript 3 with Design Patterns, ActionScript 3.0Cookbook

Cheers
Angus


On 28/04/07,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Toby,
>
> Thanks for you input. I agree I won't give up Flex as I believe it has
> potential but I won't recommend it for major/minor applications. I
> will stick with .NET or ColdFusion. I believe the whole RIA is just
> still too young.
>
> I will say this one more time.
>
> 1. We had an external consultancy validate code and methodologies
> 2. The deadline wasn't missed. (yet).
> 3. My disappointment was two pronged.
>  a.) Although they explain the concepts behind Flex it really only
> scratches the surface.
>  b.) The lack of examples.
>
> I had a mate of mine warn me who knows flex back to front.
> "Don't do a flex app or your project will fail". It hasn't failed yet
> but I understand what he means now.
>
> I truly hope that making Flex Open source will infact increase all
> aspects of its programming. But until then I will stick to what I
> originally stated.
> I have told everyone in my immediate team that we will "not" be doing
> another Flex application until things change.
>
> Jeremy.
>
> On Apr 28, 12:17 pm, Toby Tremayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your
> > difficulties attempting to get your head around flex in so short a
> > time, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make:
> >
> > 1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard
> > calls the "Elevator Pitch" - showing the bells and whistles that make
> > things incredibly easy, and not focusing on the long term
> > requirements.  But to be totally honest that's no different than
> > allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF.  Low entry barrier -
> > some things are dead easy to do.  That doesn't mean you'll be able to
> > build complex apps in a day.  Think about it - we all know it take 2
> > minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view
> > data in a db.  But none of us assume that means we're going to be
> > able to write enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things
> > and using complex OO frameworks etc in no time.
> >
> > 2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't
> > mean you're going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a
> > week.  You can knock up simple little example apps in no time at all,
> > but if you're looking at building anything serious, you need to take
> > the time to understand the event model and asynchronous calls among
> > other things.  I don't see this at all as a failing of the language
> > OR of adobe.  Anyone who leaps into a new technology for a short
> > fixed deadline based on just the "elevator pitch" is bound to feel pain.
> >
> > 3)  Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web
> > based request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and
> > very RAD.  There is yet to be a language developed that just lets you
> > say "I want this and this and this and this" and it magically works.
> >
> > I hope you get the chance to give flex another try.  When I first had
> > at it, I was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble
> > shifting paradigms in my thinking.  But with the advice of people on
> > the lists and reading the books I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a
> > seriously powerful tool and is going to be very important in the not
> > too distant future I think.  Don't be discouraged by the fact that it
> > doesn't happen overnight.
> >
> > Toby
> >
> > On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 ,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Andrew,
> >
> > > I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate
> > > decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions
> > > are anaylsed to the endth degree.
> > > And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion.
> >
> > > We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a
> > > good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully
> > > learn a language is to get dirty
> > > with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully
> > > explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I
> > > raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe
> > > that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment.
> > > Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have
> > > 

[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Scott Barnes]

Nah Peter, they're right, I did goof off a little too much on the List
and Toby hit the nail on the head.

:)

Anywho, keep moving forward ?

On 4/28/07, Peter Tilbrook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Scottie is one of the smartest people I've ever met. Fantastic for him on
> getting a job at Microsoft. Best of both worlds really - cool OS's and
> development tools  - insider knowledge - and still a ColdFusion and Flex
> developer.
>
> --
> Peter Tilbrook
> ColdGen Internet Solutions
> President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
> PO Box 2247
> Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
> AUSTRALIA
>
> http://www.coldgen.com/
> http://www.actcfug.com/
>
> Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
> Mob: +61-0432-897-437
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> MSN Messenger Live: Desktop General
>
> >
>


-- 
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblog.com

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[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

Hi Toby,

Thanks for you input. I agree I won't give up Flex as I believe it has
potential but I won't recommend it for major/minor applications. I
will stick with .NET or ColdFusion. I believe the whole RIA is just
still too young.

I will say this one more time.

1. We had an external consultancy validate code and methodologies
2. The deadline wasn't missed. (yet).
3. My disappointment was two pronged.
 a.) Although they explain the concepts behind Flex it really only
scratches the surface.
 b.) The lack of examples.

I had a mate of mine warn me who knows flex back to front.
"Don't do a flex app or your project will fail". It hasn't failed yet
but I understand what he means now.

I truly hope that making Flex Open source will infact increase all
aspects of its programming. But until then I will stick to what I
originally stated.
I have told everyone in my immediate team that we will "not" be doing
another Flex application until things change.

Jeremy.

On Apr 28, 12:17 pm, Toby Tremayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your
> difficulties attempting to get your head around flex in so short a
> time, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make:
>
> 1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard
> calls the "Elevator Pitch" - showing the bells and whistles that make
> things incredibly easy, and not focusing on the long term
> requirements.  But to be totally honest that's no different than
> allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF.  Low entry barrier -
> some things are dead easy to do.  That doesn't mean you'll be able to
> build complex apps in a day.  Think about it - we all know it take 2
> minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view
> data in a db.  But none of us assume that means we're going to be
> able to write enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things
> and using complex OO frameworks etc in no time.
>
> 2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't
> mean you're going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a
> week.  You can knock up simple little example apps in no time at all,
> but if you're looking at building anything serious, you need to take
> the time to understand the event model and asynchronous calls among
> other things.  I don't see this at all as a failing of the language
> OR of adobe.  Anyone who leaps into a new technology for a short
> fixed deadline based on just the "elevator pitch" is bound to feel pain.
>
> 3)  Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web
> based request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and
> very RAD.  There is yet to be a language developed that just lets you
> say "I want this and this and this and this" and it magically works.
>
> I hope you get the chance to give flex another try.  When I first had
> at it, I was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble
> shifting paradigms in my thinking.  But with the advice of people on
> the lists and reading the books I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a
> seriously powerful tool and is going to be very important in the not
> too distant future I think.  Don't be discouraged by the fact that it
> doesn't happen overnight.
>
> Toby
>
> On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 ,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Andrew,
>
> > I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate
> > decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions
> > are anaylsed to the endth degree.
> > And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion.
>
> > We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a
> > good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully
> > learn a language is to get dirty
> > with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully
> > explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I
> > raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe
> > that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment.
> > Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have
> > nicked name FlexDU I spoke to Ted Patrick about the learning
> > curve of Flex and what I could do to help reduce that learning curve
> > and even he acknowledged that there is a steep learning curve with
> > Flex and it is an issue that Adobe has recognized. He said wait for
> > some more books to come out which should help. So perhaps now that
> > Flex is open source we will see alot more tutorials and better
> > resources.
>
> > Jeremy
>
> > On Apr 27, 7:32 pm, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-)
>
> >> Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without
> >> knowing
> >> your tools is dangerous.
>
> >> And like every programming language I have come across, learning
> >> them have
> >> been easy. But the surface is always just 

[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

[Ryan Sabir]

Speaking of books,
 
Can anyone recommend a set of essential Flex books for developers who are, much 
like most people on this list, quite advanced with Cold Fusion / Java 
development skills, and are starting to embark on Flex projects?
 
Thanks!
 
 



From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Toby 
Tremayne
Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2007 12:17 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down
 
I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your difficulties 
attempting to get your head around flex in so short a time, but there are a 
couple of points I'd like to make:
 
1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard calls the 
"Elevator Pitch" - showing the bells and whistles that make things incredibly 
easy, and not focusing on the long term requirements.  But to be totally honest 
that's no different than allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF.  Low 
entry barrier - some things are dead easy to do.  That doesn't mean you'll be 
able to build complex apps in a day.  Think about it - we all know it take 2 
minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view data in a 
db.  But none of us assume that means we're going to be able to write 
enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things and using complex OO 
frameworks etc in no time.
 
2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't mean you're 
going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a week.  You can knock 
up simple little example apps in no time at all, but if you're looking at 
building anything serious, you need to take the time to understand the event 
model and asynchronous calls among other things.  I don't see this at all as a 
failing of the language OR of adobe.  Anyone who leaps into a new technology 
for a short fixed deadline based on just the "elevator pitch" is bound to feel 
pain.
 
3)  Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web based 
request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and very RAD.  There 
is yet to be a language developed that just lets you say "I want this and this 
and this and this" and it magically works.
 
I hope you get the chance to give flex another try.  When I first had at it, I 
was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble shifting paradigms in 
my thinking.  But with the advice of people on the lists and reading the books 
I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a seriously powerful tool and is going to 
be very important in the not too distant future I think.  Don't be discouraged 
by the fact that it doesn't happen overnight.
 
Toby
 
On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 ,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



 
Andrew,
 
I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate
decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions
are anaylsed to the endth degree.
And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion.
 
We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a
good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully
learn a language is to get dirty
with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully
explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I
raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe
that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment.
Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have
nicked name FlexDU I spoke to Ted Patrick about the learning
curve of Flex and what I could do to help reduce that learning curve
and even he acknowledged that there is a steep learning curve with
Flex and it is an issue that Adobe has recognized. He said wait for
some more books to come out which should help. So perhaps now that
Flex is open source we will see alot more tutorials and better
resources.
 
Jeremy
 
On Apr 27, 7:32 pm, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-)
 
Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without knowing
your tools is dangerous.
 
And like every programming language I have come across, learning them have
been easy. But the surface is always just that a surface, and when delving
deeper it can be harder and CF is no differeent.
 
When you start introducing Coldspring and MG:U or reactor, to name a few it
throws in some very big complexity and Flex is no different.
 
On 4/27/07,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
 
 
I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you
hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's
interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex.
 
 
 
 
 
---
 
Life is poetry, write it in your own words
 
---
 
Toby Tremayne
Senior Technical Consultant
Lyricist Software
0416 048 090
ICQ: 13107913



 


--~--~-~--~~~-

[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Peter Tilbrook]

Scottie is one of the smartest people I've ever met. Fantastic for him on
getting a job at Microsoft. Best of both worlds really - cool OS's and
development tools  - insider knowledge - and still a ColdFusion and Flex
developer.

-- 
Peter Tilbrook
ColdGen Internet Solutions
President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
PO Box 2247
Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
AUSTRALIA

http://www.coldgen.com/
http://www.actcfug.com/

Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
Mob: +61-0432-897-437

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MSN Messenger Live: Desktop General

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[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Toby Tremayne]

Andrew I hate to be so blunt, and I'm genuinely not trying to be  
nasty here  but I think you're missing the point.  It's not just  
about your little wars with Scott Barnes - you (and several others)  
have a habit of regularly making posts that have absolutely no place  
on a professional mailing list.  We're not interested in reading  
those kinds of diatribes, and we're certainly not interested in  
seeing people personally abused, ridiculed and called names.

This is a resource for work - it used to be so good it attracted a  
lot of overseas posters.  Check back through the archives and you'll  
notice that the majority of posts now come from the same half a dozen  
people.  We all interact with the list less because we're sick of  
reading this garbage - I for one don't bother to check my cfaussie  
mail most of the time because I know it will just tick me off.

If nothing else, do the posters of this rubbish not realise that the  
people who read this list are their potential employers and  
colleagues??  Off topic posts are one thing - all lists have them and  
they can be important.  But the sort of thing that's been posted here  
over the last year or so (and almost constantly in the last few  
months) is puerile, needless and a total waste of everyone's time.  I  
don't care whether you post on watercooler or whatever.  I do think  
it would be nice if you (and I'm using you as an example, not the  
source of all evil) could treat this professional list and the people  
on it with the respect they deserve.

Toby

On 27/04/2007, at 17:07 , Andrew Scott wrote:

> Let me make this clear
>
> Guilty as charged, it is very easy to attack Scott. He is young in  
> his position at M$ and it shows how easy he is to please his  
> employer. Which makes him an easy target, which is his own doing.
>
> I know Scott has been around long enough to value him as a  
> developer, but Scott you really need to ease up on pushing M$ the  
> way you do in a CF list. It's just a natural reaction from me, I am  
> out spoken because I don't suffer fools lightly. And I don't value  
> someone coming into this list and preach how good M$ is. Whether  
> they are or not, I always tinker with their products and look at  
> ways that can benefit my development.
>
> Like everyone else on this list, and I know there are a lot of  
> people who agree that you came into this list after joining M$ and  
> you have done nothing but be pushy. That has shown on more than one  
> occasion, but I will agree that there is many OT and attacks and  
> yes I am guilty. But it comes in defense of people just being plain  
> stupid, or pushy or just being naive. Doesn't make it right either,  
> but hey if you don't like it get out of the kitchen.
>
>
> Senior Coldfusion Developer
> Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
> www.aegeon.com.au
> Phone: +613  8676 4223
> Mobile: 0404 998 273
> >



---

Life is poetry, write it in your own words

---

Toby Tremayne
Senior Technical Consultant
Lyricist Software
0416 048 090
ICQ: 13107913



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[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Toby Tremayne]

Andrew I hate to be so blunt, and I'm genuinely not trying to be  
nasty here  but I think you're missing the point.  It's not just  
about your little wars with Scott Barnes - you (and several others)  
have a habit of regularly making posts that have absolutely no place  
on a professional mailing list.  We're not interested in reading  
those kinds of diatribes, and we're certainly not interested in  
seeing people personally abused, ridiculed and called names.

This is a resource for work - it used to be so good it attracted a  
lot of overseas posters.  Check back through the archives and you'll  
notice that the majority of posts now come from the same half a dozen  
people.  We all interact with the list less because we're sick of  
reading this garbage - I for one don't bother to check my cfaussie  
mail most of the time because I know it will just tick me off.

If nothing else, do the posters of this rubbish not realise that the  
people who read this list are their potential employers and  
colleagues??  Off topic posts are one thing - all lists have them and  
they can be important.  But the sort of thing that's been posted here  
over the last year or so (and almost constantly in the last few  
months) is puerile, needless and a total waste of everyone's time.  I  
don't care whether you post on watercooler or whatever.  I do think  
it would be nice if you (and I'm using you as an example, not the  
source of all evil) could treat this professional list and the people  
on it with the respect they deserve.

Toby

On 27/04/2007, at 17:07 , Andrew Scott wrote:

> Let me make this clear
>
> Guilty as charged, it is very easy to attack Scott. He is young in  
> his position at M$ and it shows how easy he is to please his  
> employer. Which makes him an easy target, which is his own doing.
>
> I know Scott has been around long enough to value him as a  
> developer, but Scott you really need to ease up on pushing M$ the  
> way you do in a CF list. It's just a natural reaction from me, I am  
> out spoken because I don't suffer fools lightly. And I don't value  
> someone coming into this list and preach how good M$ is. Whether  
> they are or not, I always tinker with their products and look at  
> ways that can benefit my development.
>
> Like everyone else on this list, and I know there are a lot of  
> people who agree that you came into this list after joining M$ and  
> you have done nothing but be pushy. That has shown on more than one  
> occasion, but I will agree that there is many OT and attacks and  
> yes I am guilty. But it comes in defense of people just being plain  
> stupid, or pushy or just being naive. Doesn't make it right either,  
> but hey if you don't like it get out of the kitchen.
>
>
> Senior Coldfusion Developer
> Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
> www.aegeon.com.au
> Phone: +613  8676 4223
> Mobile: 0404 998 273
> >



---

Life is poetry, write it in your own words

---

Toby Tremayne
Senior Technical Consultant
Lyricist Software
0416 048 090
ICQ: 13107913



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[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

[Toby Tremayne]

I'd like to weigh in on this too - Jeremy i can understand your  
difficulties attempting to get your head around flex in so short a  
time, but there are a couple of points I'd like to make:

1) All companies are guilty of focusing on what the good Dr Hilliard  
calls the "Elevator Pitch" - showing the bells and whistles that make  
things incredibly easy, and not focusing on the long term  
requirements.  But to be totally honest that's no different than  
allaire/macromedia et al have ever done with CF.  Low entry barrier -  
some things are dead easy to do.  That doesn't mean you'll be able to  
build complex apps in a day.  Think about it - we all know it take 2  
minutes to use cfquery and cfoutput and write a dynamic page to view  
data in a db.  But none of us assume that means we're going to be  
able to write enterprise apps integrating with all manner of things  
and using complex OO frameworks etc in no time.

2) AS3 is pretty easy to learn in and of itself - but that doesn't  
mean you're going to know the whole API and all the ins and outs in a  
week.  You can knock up simple little example apps in no time at all,  
but if you're looking at building anything serious, you need to take  
the time to understand the event model and asynchronous calls among  
other things.  I don't see this at all as a failing of the language  
OR of adobe.  Anyone who leaps into a new technology for a short  
fixed deadline based on just the "elevator pitch" is bound to feel pain.

3)  Once you've learned the basic differences and gotten past the web  
based request/response paradigm, you'll find flex magnificent -and  
very RAD.  There is yet to be a language developed that just lets you  
say "I want this and this and this and this" and it magically works.

I hope you get the chance to give flex another try.  When I first had  
at it, I was in exactly the same boat as you - and I had trouble  
shifting paradigms in my thinking.  But with the advice of people on  
the lists and reading the books I'm absolutely loving it now - it's a  
seriously powerful tool and is going to be very important in the not  
too distant future I think.  Don't be discouraged by the fact that it  
doesn't happen overnight.

Toby

On 27/04/2007, at 22:38 ,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Andrew,
>
> I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate
> decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions
> are anaylsed to the endth degree.
> And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion.
>
> We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a
> good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully
> learn a language is to get dirty
> with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully
> explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I
> raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe
> that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment.
> Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have
> nicked name FlexDU I spoke to Ted Patrick about the learning
> curve of Flex and what I could do to help reduce that learning curve
> and even he acknowledged that there is a steep learning curve with
> Flex and it is an issue that Adobe has recognized. He said wait for
> some more books to come out which should help. So perhaps now that
> Flex is open source we will see alot more tutorials and better
> resources.
>
> Jeremy
>
> On Apr 27, 7:32 pm, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-)
>>
>> Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without  
>> knowing
>> your tools is dangerous.
>>
>> And like every programming language I have come across, learning  
>> them have
>> been easy. But the surface is always just that a surface, and when  
>> delving
>> deeper it can be harder and CF is no differeent.
>>
>> When you start introducing Coldspring and MG:U or reactor, to name  
>> a few it
>> throws in some very big complexity and Flex is no different.
>>
>> On 4/27/07,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you
>>> hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's
>>> interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex.
>
>
> 


---

Life is poetry, write it in your own words

---

Toby Tremayne
Senior Technical Consultant
Lyricist Software
0416 048 090
ICQ: 13107913



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[cfaussie] Flex 2 - PayPal intergration

[Allan Browning]

Anyone had any experience in intergrating paypal payments into a flex
2 app.

Allan


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[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

[Haikal Saadh]

It's true. And I don't really want to sound like a snob (but hey, I'm a 
mac user, I have ample amount of smugness) but don't you think that as 
developers, we should know this stuff (OOP)? I understand that it can be 
a bit hard to wrap your head around, but if you persevere, the bounties 
are lavish.

It took me about two rather stressful, sleepless nights to wrap my head 
around Flash 8's component framework. That has paid off, though, because 
not only do I have a better understanding of how mixins work, I can 
build Flash Components (some will say they are bad, but that's a 
separate topic), and the resulting exposure to patterns has made it easy 
for me to absorb how a lot of Java and Flex stuff work. Admittedly, I 
have very little practical flex experience, but I can read all about 
without scratching my head. I am also picking up Spring, and the little 
understanding I had about Flash8's Comp. Framework has been a 
springboard to understanding all the AOP/MVC stuff Spring does. I win.

I can feel your pain, though. I tried to learn Mach-ii a few years ago, 
when I first started to learn CF, and boy what a headache... Spring 
seems so much better written... but then again, it might also be because 
I've matured more as a developer.

It's the same thing with those people who say 'java is hard, it takes 
forever to build anything'... that's true... if your java is limited to 
public static void main.

I'm learning Spring, and really, it's been the most pleasurable learning 
experience I've had in the 2 or 3 years I've been a developer.

(Sorry for ranting. I even forgot my own point... )


Bjorn Schultheiss wrote:
> It's easier to learn coming from a Java or Flash background.
>
>
> If your lucky enough for a company to pay you for 6 months while you 
> learn any software, all the best.
>
> But to set commercial deadlines on such a proposal, madness..
>
>
>
> On 27/04/2007, at 2:18 PM, Scott Barnes wrote:
>
>> Bah :) no such thing is a perfectly executed project in software, we 
>> are all humans. Flex is RAD initially but it hurts after you want to 
>> get deeper into mucking about with the code base. I blame mix-ins to 
>> be honest (decorater pattern) as it's quite confusing for the 
>> untrained folks.
>>  
>> Secondly, what company is going to say let Jeremy sit on Flex for 6 
>> months to get up to speed on it? I see this quite a lot in the years 
>> of doing FLEX, I actually used to get a lot of my work bailing out 
>> the "Jeremy's" so it's not isolated :)
>>  
>> Personally if both Adobe or Micosoft can't get the "Jeremy''s" of 
>> this world up to speed in under 6 months with GUI tier development, 
>> we failed. We need to work harder..
>>  
>>
>>
>>  
>> On 4/27/07, *Bjorn Schultheiss* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> So let me get this straight.
>>
>>  
>> You set an expectation of how long it would take to complete a
>> project in software you are not familiar with and now
>> your disappointed because your expectation was not met.
>>
>>  
>> Please, spare me...
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> On 27/04/2007, at 2:05 PM, Lucas wrote:
>>
>>> cool - send one our way, I am sure that you don't need em anymore...
>>>
>>> Oh, I have an old Javascript book here that we don't use
>>> anymore, wanna swap?
>>>
>>> On 4/27/07, *Scott Barnes* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I got some Flex 3 books i can hand out btw?
>>>
>>> On 4/27/07, grant < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > wrote:
>>> > i agree, learning actionscript was like that. adobe/mm just
>>> don't do good
>>> > developer cultivation.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 27/04/07,  < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying
>>> did you
>>> > > hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts
>>> was that's
>>> > > interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with
>>> flex.
>>> > >
>>> > > I started a project about 2 months ago which was only
>>> going to take a
>>> > > few weeks. Without going into a massive post about the
>>> project we
>>> > > found a need to try out some Flex. I was Whoa stoked. We
>>> started off
>>> > > very small a simple form posting to a database. My
>>> background is
>>> > > mainly CF so I tackled Flex like a CF programmer would.
>>> It's sad to
>>> > > say that I totally under estimated the complexity of
>>> programming Flex.
>>> > > Now guys/gals, this page was the most BASIC page you
>>> could imagine.
>>> > >
>>> > > Where I felt Adobe let me down was the fact that all their PR
>>> > > explained how easy it was to pic

[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

[M@ Bourke]

> So when is a good time to start working with the new tools? The only way
to fully
>learn a language is to get dirty

In your own time or to send the developers to training, or to have a
consultant/experienced dev with that technology to come in and train/help
out with the first project or 2.
or have spare time at work and an intranet that ain't to important or one of
those "learn a language while you sleep" cd's and just hope it doesn't skip
during ya sleep or ya might end up writing never ending loops.

M@


On 4/27/07,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Andrew,
>
> I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate
> decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions
> are anaylsed to the endth degree.
> And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion.
>
> We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a
> good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully
> learn a language is to get dirty
> with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully
> explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I
> raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe
> that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment.
> Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have
> nicked name FlexDU I spoke to Ted Patrick about the learning
> curve of Flex and what I could do to help reduce that learning curve
> and even he acknowledged that there is a steep learning curve with
> Flex and it is an issue that Adobe has recognized. He said wait for
> some more books to come out which should help. So perhaps now that
> Flex is open source we will see alot more tutorials and better
> resources.
>
> Jeremy
>
> On Apr 27, 7:32 pm, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-)
> >
> > Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without
> knowing
> > your tools is dangerous.
> >
> > And like every programming language I have come across, learning them
> have
> > been easy. But the surface is always just that a surface, and when
> delving
> > deeper it can be harder and CF is no differeent.
> >
> > When you start introducing Coldspring and MG:U or reactor, to name a few
> it
> > throws in some very big complexity and Flex is no different.
> >
> > On 4/27/07,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you
> > > hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's
> > > interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex.
>
>
> >
>

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[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

Andrew,

I didn't go into this decision lightly. In fact it wasn't my ultimate
decision at all. I work for a HUGE company in which those decisions
are anaylsed to the endth degree.
And yes in high-end sight we should have done it in HTML/ColdFusion.

We actually discussed it with a Third party i.e. NOT me. So when is a
good time to start working with the new tools? The only way to fully
learn a language is to get dirty
with it. My issue that I have with Adobe is that they DID not fully
explain the complexity and learning curve that Flex has. The reason I
raised this issue with all of you, is I truly believe
that flex IS not ready for the main stream development environment.
Its close but its just not ready. When I went to WebDU which I have
nicked name FlexDU I spoke to Ted Patrick about the learning
curve of Flex and what I could do to help reduce that learning curve
and even he acknowledged that there is a steep learning curve with
Flex and it is an issue that Adobe has recognized. He said wait for
some more books to come out which should help. So perhaps now that
Flex is open source we will see alot more tutorials and better
resources.

Jeremy

On Apr 27, 7:32 pm, "Andrew Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-)
>
> Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without knowing
> your tools is dangerous.
>
> And like every programming language I have come across, learning them have
> been easy. But the surface is always just that a surface, and when delving
> deeper it can be harder and CF is no differeent.
>
> When you start introducing Coldspring and MG:U or reactor, to name a few it
> throws in some very big complexity and Flex is no different.
>
> On 4/27/07,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you
> > hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's
> > interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex.


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[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[M@ Bourke]

>show them paths in and out of Microsoft products,
>illustrate the pro's and con's

Sweet give me a pro of using flex over WPF

thanks
Matt

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[cfaussie] Re: Flash File Uploads

[Peter Tilbrook]

No. But I have with a solution (for CFML) with code by ASFUSION.com - the
sort of stuff that should be a lot easier in ColdFusion - but is not at this
stage.

I think ASFUSION's workaround (which works) is hardcoded for CFML.


On 27/04/07, Steve Onnis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Hey guys
>
> Has anyone managed to get Flash file uploads to work with an ASP file
> upload process?
>
> Steve Onnis Director / Head Developer
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> +61 3 9001 2258
>
> 0401 667 996
>
> www.inevative.com.au
>   
> 
>
> >
>


-- 
Peter Tilbrook
ColdGen Internet Solutions
President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
PO Box 2247
Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
AUSTRALIA

http://www.coldgen.com/
http://www.actcfug.com/

Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
Mob: +61-0432-897-437

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MSN Messenger Live: Desktop General

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<>
<>

<>
<>

<>

[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Scott Barnes]

I was waiting for your response Grant ;) heh

> With every post now I cringe as do others. I know your having fun and
> all and to not expect a passionate response by a lot of people who
> have build their companies and reputations on the software base is
> naive at best.

I take onboard what you're saying, but you're seeing it from one
perspective which isn't accurate. My role is to engage developers,
listen to them and show them paths in and out of Microsoft products,
illustrate the pro's and con's of executing certain objectives and how
they will stack. Part of this job also is get substantial answers from
Adobe, given certain staffers are more focused on politics then
actually listening, that's sadly what you're seeing. I've sent them an
email (again) last night asking for a truce? "Let's stop the dance we
appear to be doing". As to be honest, it's just an annoyance (but it's
their call in the end).

I ask simple point blank questions, and their reaction is "FUD" or
nit-pick at my signature or something along those lines as somehow
this changes the question? Questions never get answered and it ends in
political B.S. It's their way of side-stepping the issue, and like
your "others" Grant, lots of picked up on this and is why I get a lot
of offline comments like this:

---
"I'm not even close to your level of experience, but I've been around the
block more times than I care to discuss, and I've been burned by MM so
badly, it's not even funny.  I am a single employee, consulting firm -
and I've spent every hard-earned dollar on MM products - just to see the
software either be dropped altogether, or be repackaged in a much more
inexpensive bundle (of course, AFTER I blow all my damn money on their
Server products).

Not to ramble, but I just wanted to tell you much I appreciated your
post - it was well written, clear & concise, and most of all - ACCURATE.

I look forward to all of your future posts on the list - regardless of
topic :)
---

I've even gotten emails from members on this very list with a email
being typed up in draft form, but backed off and sent it to me instead
saying "This is what I was going to say but thought after watching how
they reacted to you, I wouldn't".. (in reference to when I joined
Microsoft they took an aggressive stance immediately)

Ok, this just baffles me and I have forwarded these to Mike & Co
saying "If this is what you want from your customers, this is flawed"
(I can forward you the dates/times as well if you like).

Point: How did we all get to this stage? I know how, It's easier to
hate Microsoft (it is, I get it a lot from non-Microsoft shops, its
the "cool" thing to do?)

>
> Right now if i was given a sales pitch on the opposing technologies by
> yourself or Mike I would believe Mikes was sincere and your one was
> coming out of a MS marketing brochure.

Well you're a fool in both ways to be honest as you're buying based on
persona's and not product's merits. This is a classic case of why i
made a quip today that Mike loves the camera, as you're associating a
persona to the product and not weighing up he product itself.

You've complained just as much as I have about their direction over
the years, only you don't blog it or voice it out loud? because you
know if you do those exclusive backstage passes you have gotten over
the years will suddenly dry up if you rock that boat?

> Carry on posting the way you are but I can tell you that you will win
> a few  battles but you'll lose the war.

What war? there's no war here other then two personalities having a
pi$$ing contest (I flicked Mike & Co an email tonight asking for a
truce on this political b.s, it's the second time i've asked so I'm
working on getting some of this scratch match offline if need be
instead of annoying folks like Tom?)

Bottom line Grant, I get what you're saying and agree in parts- but in
the end, I can't fully agree with someone whom has been just as
critical about them as I have, only my choice of voicing such opinions
is online, loud and clear (Since 2002) ?

I've known you for years Grant, and If you were also sincere in you
concerne you would of flicked me an email offline so...

Anywho, appreciate the feedback and have taken the undercurrent of it onboard

> My $0.2 worth.
>
> Grant
>
> On Apr 27, 7:52 pm, "Scott Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > *rolls eyes* let it go Mike :) (4 months of this online
> > scratchmatch/nit picking at everything I do & say? I'm over it to be
> > honest) heh.
> >
> > As for Tom,
> > *shrug* yeah fair point, I guess it can be easy to get carried away
> > sometimes, i'll take it on board and endeavor to reign it in :)
> >
> > On 4/27/07, Mike Chambers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Tom,
> >
> > > I wouldn't leave the list just because of all of the trolling. We have
> > > had the same trolling issues (with some of the same people) recently on
> > > the Flex coders list, as well as Adobe blogs.
> >
> > > This list and other can be a r

[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

[Andrew Scott]

With a post like this, no wonder people are jumped on:-)

Serioulsy, I applaud your atempt but to go into a project without knowing
your tools is dangerous.

And like every programming language I have come across, learning them have
been easy. But the surface is always just that a surface, and when delving
deeper it can be harder and CF is no differeent.

When you start introducing Coldspring and MG:U or reactor, to name a few it
throws in some very big complexity and Flex is no different.



On 4/27/07,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I walked into worked today with everyone around me saying did you
> hear? Flex has been open- sourced. My imediate thoughts was that's
> interesting. But honestly it won't make me continue with flex.
>

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[cfaussie] Re: SOT:Adobe & Flex let me down

[M@ Bourke]

Maybe what you were planning on doing would have been best done in html
anyway.
what were you building was flex the right job?

we use some flex/apollo at work,  but more as a win application replacement
then a web application replacement.
the department that uses the app simply sits there all day swiping bar codes
with a bar code reader, the app gets all the details for that order and
displays em and updates the order status, the user never uses the keyboard
once (except to log in) is quite cool, but the coolness wasn't the reason it
was chosen.

M@

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[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Grant Straker]

Scott,

I have no idea of the agenda for being so active on the various Adobe
product lists you are posting to. All I can say is that if it is
anyway to make people want to start using MS products then it isn't
working for me ( and a large number of other people on this list I
have spoken too). If anything it is actively turning us away from
anything to do with it.

With every post now I cringe as do others. I know your having fun and
all and to not expect a passionate response by a lot of people who
have build their companies and reputations on the software base is
naive at best.

Right now if i was given a sales pitch on the opposing technologies by
yourself or Mike I would believe Mikes was sincere and your one was
coming out of a MS marketing brochure.

Carry on posting the way you are but I can tell you that you will win
a few  battles but you'll lose the war.

My $0.2 worth.

Grant

On Apr 27, 7:52 pm, "Scott Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> *rolls eyes* let it go Mike :) (4 months of this online
> scratchmatch/nit picking at everything I do & say? I'm over it to be
> honest) heh.
>
> As for Tom,
> *shrug* yeah fair point, I guess it can be easy to get carried away
> sometimes, i'll take it on board and endeavor to reign it in :)
>
> On 4/27/07, Mike Chambers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tom,
>
> > I wouldn't leave the list just because of all of the trolling. We have
> > had the same trolling issues (with some of the same people) recently on
> > the Flex coders list, as well as Adobe blogs.
>
> > This list and other can be a really good resource, so instead of leaving
> > I suggest you just set up mail filters to automatically delete the
> > offending posters. I know it is not idea, but I think it is better than
> > dropping out of what is otherwise a great resource and community.
>
> > mike chambers
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > Tom MacKean wrote:
> > > OK. Had enough. I'm unsubscribing from cfaussie as of now.
>
> > > Let me make this perfectly clear. I am dropping off this list for one
> > > reason only, and that is that every time someone comes up with a
> > > sensible post about something Scott and Andrew turn it into a flame war.
>
> > > Scott - this is a list for people who have problems or questions about
> > > all things COLDFUSION - it is not a forum for "Well you could do it with
> > > CF but look at this alternative from MS".
>
> > > Andrew - To quote from Bambi "If ya can't say nuffin' nice, don't say
> > > nuffin' at all." Have a look through your posts and see how many have
> > > ADDED to people's knowledge of a subject and how many have just been
> > > having a dig at something someone (usually Scott) has said.
>
> > > They went and set up a whole new watercooler newsgroup for you guys so
> > > you could take your crap off cfaussie but your egos keep you posting in
> > > other people's topics.
>
> > > What a couple of pricks.
>
> > > Don't bother replying, I'm gone.
>
> > > Tom MacKean
>
> --
> Regards,
> Scott Barneshttp://www.mossyblog.com


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[cfaussie] Re: Western Sydney User Group - anyone interested?

[Mike Kear]

G'day Ian,

you're a surprise!  I thought i knew where most of the coldfuson
developers were out our way.  Never knew you were there!   Welcome!

Looks like this user group is a goer  There are some technical things
to set up before we get validated by Adobe.   They dont want more than
one user group in a metro area, so we're going to see if calling it
Blue Mountains User Group will get us through that rule. '

Rod Higgins has a boardroom at his place in High Street Penrith we can
use for a venue, and he's not going to charge us for it, so it looks
like there's only two things to do - get Adobe to accredit the group
as an official User Group and get people to agree to come along.

We want to see if we can get some dialogue going between coldfusion
developers west of Auburn.  We think there must be quite a few like
you and me sitting toiling away in our front rooms or one-person
offices who could use some networking opportunities, chances to talk
about coldfusion techniques etc and just get out of the office once a
month for a little like-minded conviviality.

Thanks for putting your hand up.   I'll let you know when the next
step is going to happen.

Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month



On 4/27/07, Ian Marshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yup, I'd be interested too.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> ian
>
>
>
>
> ***
>
>

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[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Scott Barnes]

*rolls eyes* let it go Mike :) (4 months of this online
scratchmatch/nit picking at everything I do & say? I'm over it to be
honest) heh.

As for Tom,
*shrug* yeah fair point, I guess it can be easy to get carried away
sometimes, i'll take it on board and endeavor to reign it in :)



On 4/27/07, Mike Chambers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> I wouldn't leave the list just because of all of the trolling. We have
> had the same trolling issues (with some of the same people) recently on
> the Flex coders list, as well as Adobe blogs.
>
> This list and other can be a really good resource, so instead of leaving
> I suggest you just set up mail filters to automatically delete the
> offending posters. I know it is not idea, but I think it is better than
> dropping out of what is otherwise a great resource and community.
>
> mike chambers
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Tom MacKean wrote:
> > OK. Had enough. I'm unsubscribing from cfaussie as of now.
> >
> > Let me make this perfectly clear. I am dropping off this list for one
> > reason only, and that is that every time someone comes up with a
> > sensible post about something Scott and Andrew turn it into a flame war.
> >
> > Scott - this is a list for people who have problems or questions about
> > all things COLDFUSION - it is not a forum for "Well you could do it with
> > CF but look at this alternative from MS".
> >
> > Andrew - To quote from Bambi "If ya can't say nuffin' nice, don't say
> > nuffin' at all." Have a look through your posts and see how many have
> > ADDED to people's knowledge of a subject and how many have just been
> > having a dig at something someone (usually Scott) has said.
> >
> > They went and set up a whole new watercooler newsgroup for you guys so
> > you could take your crap off cfaussie but your egos keep you posting in
> > other people's topics.
> >
> > What a couple of pricks.
> >
> > Don't bother replying, I'm gone.
> >
> > Tom MacKean
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
>


-- 
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblog.com

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[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Barry Beattie]

> but hey if you don't like it get out of the
> kitchen.

wot, and get around the CF_watercooler instead? great suggestion,
Andrew. Good on yer.


anyhoo, it's friday a'noon. Outa here.
this week's officially dead and buried
(like some OT threads, eh?)

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[cfaussie] Re: Scott and Andrew have driven me away

[Andrew Scott]

Let me make this clear

Guilty as charged, it is very easy to attack Scott. He is young in his
position at M$ and it shows how easy he is to please his employer. Which
makes him an easy target, which is his own doing.

I know Scott has been around long enough to value him as a developer, but
Scott you really need to ease up on pushing M$ the way you do in a CF list.
It's just a natural reaction from me, I am out spoken because I don't suffer
fools lightly. And I don't value someone coming into this list and preach
how good M$ is. Whether they are or not, I always tinker with their products
and look at ways that can benefit my development.

Like everyone else on this list, and I know there are a lot of people who
agree that you came into this list after joining M$ and you have done
nothing but be pushy. That has shown on more than one occasion, but I will
agree that there is many OT and attacks and yes I am guilty. But it comes in
defense of people just being plain stupid, or pushy or just being naive.
Doesn't make it right either, but hey if you don't like it get out of the
kitchen.


Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613  8676 4223
Mobile: 0404 998 273

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