Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Last year we dropped the rudder on Persistence to replace the rudder bushings.

After going through that process once I cannot imagine how annoying it would be 
to remove the rudder every year! (unless I was sailing a Laser)

I have been following this thread with interest – and yes this list is amazing!

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS
www.hoytsailing.com



From: Paul Hood via CnC-List 
Sent: January 5, 2022 4:34 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: 'CHARLES SCHEAFFER' ; Paul Hood 

Subject: Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

To expand on the set screw idea.  A garboard drain would be ideal.  I have one 
in the hull and duplicating that on the rudder makes sense.  Otherwise, 
repairing the problem and keeping the water out is always best. But hey, 
sometimes you never know and having it off every winter is good insurance.

Paul Hood
REFUGE - ’81 C Georgian Bay

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: January 5, 2022 3:05 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

Set screws are a great idea for a drain.
That's why this list is so valuable.  So many different listers; so many 
alternative ideas.

I'm going to try that idea.  Heretofore, I've always drilled the quarter inch 
hole.  My rudder usually drips a few drops and stops, but It drips after a 
heavy rain, so I am pretty sure the joint, where the shaft exits the top of the 
rudder, leaks.  Drilling the hole is just insurance against ice expanding 
inside and delamination.

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Chesapeake Bay

On 01/05/2022 12:56 PM John Irvin via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Firefly (C 27 III) has a similar problem. We installed set screws for the 
drain holes which allow the 2-3 cups of water to drip out in the fall. Sealed 
with Vaseline when the set screws go in at spring launch. No issues this way.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Brian Davis via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Thank you, Spencer.

Makes sense. I'm in south Florida, so we never get a freeze. I drilled a couple 
more holes, dug around with a screwdriver, vacuumed it a lot, and have had my 
heat gun blowing in the area for about 3 hours now...at a safe distance.  Its 
seems pretty dry, but I'm going to let her set in the sun for several days. 
Fortunately, I don't think its to bad. The upper 75% seems very dry since I 
drilled out one of the foam fill holes when they made it.

Overall I think I roll with this fix and monitor it next time I haulout.

Really appreciate having this group to turn to for advice and stories.

Regards,
Brian

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 12:04 PM Spencer Johnson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Hi Brian...I replaced my rudder in 2018 after years of bringing it home over 
the winter to let it drain out of the rudder-shaft connection.  I gave up and 
had Competition Composites (cci.one) in Ontario repair it.   Their computer 
scanned the rudder, removed the fiberglass and foam confirming that the SS post 
was in good shape (because of the black/brown tarry ooze that came out of the 
rudder I was relieved), then they scanned the shaft.  After cleaning it all up 
they used a CNC milling machine to cut two halves of hard Divinycell foam - 
inside and outside - then packed with epoxy.  The outside was covered in 2 
layers of fiberglass mat, vacuum bagged, then faired and primed.  Some pics:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bz49si3Z0GdDd2sxVXNHV1Iwc0E?resourcekey=0-mxt2XK3szmOGKjPR91NARA=sharing

They have a video of the process on the website.  Cost was about 3k but the 
exchange rate US to CDN was quite favorable.  Shipping was not cheep...a crate 
cost about $100 and was very well made.  Rudder weight dropped in halffrom 
325 to 150 lbs...much easier to reinstall!

Brianif your boat is outside in the frozen tundra you can be sure it won't 
just get better.  I had the yard use G-Flex on the shaft to rudder 
joint...water still got in.  So, not a matter of IF but WHEN.  For me...I was 
done removing the rudder each fall and taking it home so it would not freeze.  
The new rudder is solid peace of mind.  Good Luck!!

Spencer Johnson
84 LF38 "Alegria"  #165
Racine, WI / Waukegan, IL

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   

Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

[Paul Hood via CnC-List]

To expand on the set screw idea.  A garboard drain would be ideal.  I have one 
in the hull and duplicating that on the rudder makes sense.  Otherwise, 
repairing the problem and keeping the water out is always best. But hey, 
sometimes you never know and having it off every winter is good insurance. 

 

Paul Hood

REFUGE - ’81 C Georgian Bay

 

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List  
Sent: January 5, 2022 3:05 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

 

Set screws are a great idea for a drain.  

That's why this list is so valuable.  So many different listers; so many 
alternative ideas.  

 

I'm going to try that idea.  Heretofore, I've always drilled the quarter inch 
hole.  My rudder usually drips a few drops and stops, but It drips after a 
heavy rain, so I am pretty sure the joint, where the shaft exits the top of the 
rudder, leaks.  Drilling the hole is just insurance against ice expanding 
inside and delamination. 

 

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Chesapeake Bay 

 

On 01/05/2022 12:56 PM John Irvin via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Firefly (C 27 III) has a similar problem. We installed set screws for the 
drain holes which allow the 2-3 cups of water to drip out in the fall. Sealed 
with Vaseline when the set screws go in at spring launch. No issues this way. 

Sent from my iPhone 





On Jan 5, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Brian Davis via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

Thank you, Spencer. 

 

Makes sense. I'm in south Florida, so we never get a freeze. I drilled a couple 
more holes, dug around with a screwdriver, vacuumed it a lot, and have had my 
heat gun blowing in the area for about 3 hours now...at a safe distance.  Its 
seems pretty dry, but I'm going to let her set in the sun for several days. 
Fortunately, I don't think its to bad. The upper 75% seems very dry since I 
drilled out one of the foam fill holes when they made it.  

 

Overall I think I roll with this fix and monitor it next time I haulout. 

 

Really appreciate having this group to turn to for advice and stories. 

 

Regards, 

Brian 

 

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 12:04 PM Spencer Johnson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

Hi Brian...I replaced my rudder in 2018 after years of bringing it home over 
the winter to let it drain out of the rudder-shaft connection.  I gave up and 
had Competition Composites (cci.one) in Ontario repair it.   Their computer 
scanned the rudder, removed the fiberglass and foam confirming that the SS post 
was in good shape (because of the black/brown tarry ooze that came out of the 
rudder I was relieved), then they scanned the shaft.  After cleaning it all up 
they used a CNC milling machine to cut two halves of hard Divinycell foam - 
inside and outside - then packed with epoxy.  The outside was covered in 2 
layers of fiberglass mat, vacuum bagged, then faired and primed.  Some pics: 

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bz49si3Z0GdDd2sxVXNHV1Iwc0E?resourcekey=0-mxt2XK3szmOGKjPR91NARA
 

 =sharing 

 

They have a video of the process on the website.  Cost was about 3k but the 
exchange rate US to CDN was quite favorable.  Shipping was not cheep...a crate 
cost about $100 and was very well made.  Rudder weight dropped in halffrom 
325 to 150 lbs...much easier to reinstall! 

 

Brianif your boat is outside in the frozen tundra you can be sure it won't 
just get better.  I had the yard use G-Flex on the shaft to rudder 
joint...water still got in.  So, not a matter of IF but WHEN.  For me...I was 
done removing the rudder each fall and taking it home so it would not freeze.  
The new rudder is solid peace of mind.  Good Luck!! 

 

Spencer Johnson 

84 LF38 "Alegria"  #165 

Racine, WI / Waukegan, IL 



 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 

   Thanks - Stu 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 

Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Set screws are a great idea for a drain. 
That's why this list is so valuable.  So many different listers; so many 
alternative ideas. 

I'm going to try that idea.  Heretofore, I've always drilled the quarter inch 
hole.  My rudder usually drips a few drops and stops, but It drips after a 
heavy rain, so I am pretty sure the joint, where the shaft exits the top of the 
rudder, leaks.  Drilling the hole is just insurance against ice expanding 
inside and delamination.

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Chesapeake Bay


> On 01/05/2022 12:56 PM John Irvin via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Firefly (C 27 III) has a similar problem. We installed set screws for 
> the drain holes which allow the 2-3 cups of water to drip out in the fall. 
> Sealed with Vaseline when the set screws go in at spring launch. No issues 
> this way.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> > > On Jan 5, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Brian Davis via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > Thank you, Spencer.
> > 
> > Makes sense. I'm in south Florida, so we never get a freeze. I 
> > drilled a couple more holes, dug around with a screwdriver, vacuumed it a 
> > lot, and have had my heat gun blowing in the area for about 3 hours 
> > now...at a safe distance.  Its seems pretty dry, but I'm going to let her 
> > set in the sun for several days. Fortunately, I don't think its to bad. The 
> > upper 75% seems very dry since I drilled out one of the foam fill holes 
> > when they made it. 
> > 
> > Overall I think I roll with this fix and monitor it next time I 
> > haulout.
> > 
> > Really appreciate having this group to turn to for advice and 
> > stories.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Brian
> > 
> > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 12:04 PM Spencer Johnson via CnC-List 
> > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > 
> > > > > Hi Brian...I replaced my rudder in 2018 after 
> > years of bringing it home over the winter to let it drain out of the 
> > rudder-shaft connection.  I gave up and had Competition Composites 
> > (cci.one) in Ontario repair it.   Their computer scanned the rudder, 
> > removed the fiberglass and foam confirming that the SS post was in good 
> > shape (because of the black/brown tarry ooze that came out of the rudder I 
> > was relieved), then they scanned the shaft.  After cleaning it all up they 
> > used a CNC milling machine to cut two halves of hard Divinycell foam - 
> > inside and outside - then packed with epoxy.  The outside was covered in 2 
> > layers of fiberglass mat, vacuum bagged, then faired and primed.  Some pics:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bz49si3Z0GdDd2sxVXNHV1Iwc0E?resourcekey=0-mxt2XK3szmOGKjPR91NARA=sharing
> > >  
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fdrive%2Ffolders%2F0Bz49si3Z0GdDd2sxVXNHV1Iwc0E%3Fresourcekey%3D0-mxt2XK3szmOGKjPR91NARA%26usp%3Dsharing=04%7C01%7C%7Cdc1a51cde9014505e83c08d9d07125f4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637770006649032316%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=tWxxqTees3bfSInxG7TCXsiOgiEfMUwKog%2BV55robOM%3D=0
> > > 
> > > They have a video of the process on the website.  Cost was 
> > > about 3k but the exchange rate US to CDN was quite favorable.  Shipping 
> > > was not cheep...a crate cost about $100 and was very well made.  Rudder 
> > > weight dropped in halffrom 325 to 150 lbs...much easier to reinstall!
> > > 
> > > Brianif your boat is outside in the frozen tundra you can 
> > > be sure it won't just get better.  I had the yard use G-Flex on the shaft 
> > > to rudder joint...water still got in.  So, not a matter of IF but WHEN.  
> > > For me...I was done removing the rudder each fall and taking it home so 
> > > it would not freeze.  The new rudder is solid peace of mind.  Good Luck!!
> > > 
> > > Spencer Johnson
> > > 84 LF38 "Alegria"  #165
> > > Racine, WI / Waukegan, IL
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list 
> > > to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the 
> > > list - use PayPal to send contribution --   
> > > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.me%2Fstumurray=04%7C01%7C%7Cdc1a51cde9014505e83c08d9d07125f4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637770006649042308%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=XzxD13hEzIXh1ImQuh8t812CFle3xYM710fnuSeIbRg%3D=0
> > >Thanks - Stu
> > > 
> > > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to 
> > > the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your 
> > > support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   
> > > 

Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

Firefly (C 27 III) has a similar problem. We installed set screws for the 
drain holes which allow the 2-3 cups of water to drip out in the fall. Sealed 
with Vaseline when the set screws go in at spring launch. No issues this way.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Brian Davis via CnC-List  
wrote:


Thank you, Spencer.

Makes sense. I'm in south Florida, so we never get a freeze. I drilled a couple 
more holes, dug around with a screwdriver, vacuumed it a lot, and have had my 
heat gun blowing in the area for about 3 hours now...at a safe distance.  Its 
seems pretty dry, but I'm going to let her set in the sun for several days. 
Fortunately, I don't think its to bad. The upper 75% seems very dry since I 
drilled out one of the foam fill holes when they made it.

Overall I think I roll with this fix and monitor it next time I haulout.

Really appreciate having this group to turn to for advice and stories.

Regards,
Brian

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 12:04 PM Spencer Johnson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Hi Brian...I replaced my rudder in 2018 after years of bringing it home over 
the winter to let it drain out of the rudder-shaft connection.  I gave up and 
had Competition Composites (cci.one) in Ontario repair it.   Their computer 
scanned the rudder, removed the fiberglass and foam confirming that the SS post 
was in good shape (because of the black/brown tarry ooze that came out of the 
rudder I was relieved), then they scanned the shaft.  After cleaning it all up 
they used a CNC milling machine to cut two halves of hard Divinycell foam - 
inside and outside - then packed with epoxy.  The outside was covered in 2 
layers of fiberglass mat, vacuum bagged, then faired and primed.  Some pics:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bz49si3Z0GdDd2sxVXNHV1Iwc0E?resourcekey=0-mxt2XK3szmOGKjPR91NARA=sharing

They have a video of the process on the website.  Cost was about 3k but the 
exchange rate US to CDN was quite favorable.  Shipping was not cheep...a crate 
cost about $100 and was very well made.  Rudder weight dropped in halffrom 
325 to 150 lbs...much easier to reinstall!

Brianif your boat is outside in the frozen tundra you can be sure it won't 
just get better.  I had the yard use G-Flex on the shaft to rudder 
joint...water still got in.  So, not a matter of IF but WHEN.  For me...I was 
done removing the rudder each fall and taking it home so it would not freeze.  
The new rudder is solid peace of mind.  Good Luck!!

Spencer Johnson
84 LF38 "Alegria"  #165
Racine, WI / Waukegan, IL



Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Donations

[Jeff Nelson via CnC-List]

In the footer of the message...

On 2022-01-05 13:32, Brian Davis via CnC-List wrote:

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray   Thanks - Stu



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Donations

[Brian Davis via CnC-List]

Hi Stu,

Whats the link for PayPal donations again please? Its been over a year
since I sent you some bucks and I want to show my appreciation again.

Regards,
Brian Davis
West Palm Beach, Florida
s/v Nina
1980 Landfall 38SL
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

[Brian Davis via CnC-List]

Thank you, Spencer.

Makes sense. I'm in south Florida, so we never get a freeze. I drilled a
couple more holes, dug around with a screwdriver, vacuumed it a lot, and
have had my heat gun blowing in the area for about 3 hours now...at a safe
distance.  Its seems pretty dry, but I'm going to let her set in the sun
for several days. Fortunately, I don't think its to bad. The upper 75%
seems very dry since I drilled out one of the foam fill holes when they
made it.

Overall I think I roll with this fix and monitor it next time I haulout.

Really appreciate having this group to turn to for advice and stories.

Regards,
Brian

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 12:04 PM Spencer Johnson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Brian...I replaced my rudder in 2018 after years of bringing it home
> over the winter to let it drain out of the rudder-shaft connection.  I gave
> up and had Competition Composites (cci.one) in Ontario repair it.   Their
> computer scanned the rudder, removed the fiberglass and foam confirming
> that the SS post was in good shape (because of the black/brown tarry ooze
> that came out of the rudder I was relieved), then they scanned the shaft.
> After cleaning it all up they used a CNC milling machine to cut two halves
> of hard Divinycell foam - inside and outside - then packed with epoxy.  The
> outside was covered in 2 layers of fiberglass mat, vacuum bagged, then
> faired and primed.  Some pics:
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bz49si3Z0GdDd2sxVXNHV1Iwc0E?resourcekey=0-mxt2XK3szmOGKjPR91NARA=sharing
>
> They have a video of the process on the website.  Cost was about 3k but
> the exchange rate US to CDN was quite favorable.  Shipping was not
> cheep...a crate cost about $100 and was very well made.  Rudder weight
> dropped in halffrom 325 to 150 lbs...much easier to reinstall!
>
> Brianif your boat is outside in the frozen tundra you can be sure it
> won't just get better.  I had the yard use G-Flex on the shaft to rudder
> joint...water still got in.  So, not a matter of IF but WHEN.  For me...I
> was done removing the rudder each fall and taking it home so it would not
> freeze.  The new rudder is solid peace of mind.  Good Luck!!
>
> Spencer Johnson
> 84 LF38 "Alegria"  #165
> Racine, WI / Waukegan, IL
>
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

[Spencer Johnson via CnC-List]

Hi Brian...I replaced my rudder in 2018 after years of bringing it home over 
the winter to let it drain out of the rudder-shaft connection.  I gave up and 
had Competition Composites (cci.one) in Ontario repair it.   Their computer 
scanned the rudder, removed the fiberglass and foam confirming that the SS post 
was in good shape (because of the black/brown tarry ooze that came out of the 
rudder I was relieved), then they scanned the shaft.  After cleaning it all up 
they used a CNC milling machine to cut two halves of hard Divinycell foam - 
inside and outside - then packed with epoxy.  The outside was covered in 2 
layers of fiberglass mat, vacuum bagged, then faired and primed.  Some pics:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bz49si3Z0GdDd2sxVXNHV1Iwc0E?resourcekey=0-mxt2XK3szmOGKjPR91NARA=sharing
They have a video of the process on the website.  Cost was about 3k but the 
exchange rate US to CDN was quite favorable.  Shipping was not cheep...a crate 
cost about $100 and was very well made.  Rudder weight dropped in halffrom 
325 to 150 lbs...much easier to reinstall!
Brianif your boat is outside in the frozen tundra you can be sure it won't 
just get better.  I had the yard use G-Flex on the shaft to rudder 
joint...water still got in.  So, not a matter of IF but WHEN.  For me...I was 
done removing the rudder each fall and taking it home so it would not freeze.  
The new rudder is solid peace of mind.  Good Luck!!
Spencer Johnson84 LF38 "Alegria"  #165Racine, WI / Waukegan, IL



Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

[Brian Davis via CnC-List]

Thank you,  Nathan! I appreciate it. The rudder itself seems super strong
and otherwise very solid. I drilled 2 more holes this morning near where I
did the other spacing them a few inches apart. I got some more water out
but not a lot. I put my shop vac on each one for a while and now I have my
heat gun pointed at it on medium from about a foot away so I don't burn it.
It seems to be drying out

I'll be gone for a few days so that'll give it more time to drain and air
out. Then I'll epoxy it up and carry on.

Regards,
Brian

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 10:00 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> There are differing views on wet rudders.  Mine fills up with seawater
> over the season - the first few seasons I drilled a hole near the bottom
> and let it drain while hauled out for the winter (don't want it to freeze
> and break the rudder).  Each spring I filled the hole, sanded, barrier coat
> and paint.  A year ago I installed threaded bronze fitting so that I can
> plug it with a set screw instead of drilling and patching each year.  My
> guess is a previous owner on your boat was doing something similar,
> exploring your rudder for water and perhaps poorly or not at all repairing
> the holes afterwards.  Depending on how you use the boat (e.g. offshore vs.
> coastal cruising) and where, getting it rebuilt may be a good idea or might
> be unnecessary - e.g. is getting help and a tow reasonable if it was to
> fail? The main concern would be if it is still structurally sound or if the
> metal components are too corroded and could fail at some point which is
> hard to tell without opening it up and rebuilding it. There are lots of
> different opinions on how likely a problem is but nearly all older boats
> have wet rudders it seems and they don't appear to fail very often on the
> C at least as far as I know.
>
> Nathan
> S/V Wisper
> Lynn MA
> 1981 C 34 CB
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Drill a few more drain holes top middle bottom and let it drain and dry out
inside. When dry fill holes with thickened epoxy fair and barrier coat. Pay
careful attention to cleaning out the gap around the rudder post. Dental
tools work good for that. Let it dry and reseal with thickened epoxy.
Tapping with a small hammer may give you an idea where water is trapped. A
dull thud might mean water.

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:45 AM Brian Davis via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Good morning everyone! Happy New Year!
>
> I've spent the last 2 weeks totally sanding Nina's bottom down to the gel
> coat in prep for a new paint job using The Black Widow from Pettit.
>
> I came across some issues with the rudder yesterday and was wondering if
> any of you have fixed similar.   After sand it down too, I could tell there
> was some glass and bondo work done on the trailing edge. I Dremeled out the
> spots and have a great marine epoxy to fill since they aren't deep.
>
> However, there was water dripping from a hole or shaft of sorts on the
> underside near the leading edge about a few inches back. I inserted a dowel
> stick about 5" up and it seems solid. So drilled a hole where a previous
> hole was on the bottom face of the starboard side. About 3oz of water came
> out. The yard lead tech suggest I pull the rudder and send to FossFoam near
> Gainesville FL to rebuild it. They quoted $2,000 and said that they were
> probably the original manufacturer.
>
> Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.  Here is a link to some
> pics.
>
> Regards,
> Brian
> 1980 Landfall 38SL
>
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1kFXgarL4apwcKsr6cjQxp41_qsU12Kcw
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Rudder issues

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

There was a Landfall 38 for sale that had in the description of the boat that 
they had injected about 2 gallons of epoxy into the rudder. I wouldn’t go buy a 
new rudder quite yet, it may be as fine as the rudders on all the other old 
C On the few occasions I have been out in freezing weather I definitely 
drilled a drain hole. I saw a relatively new Freedom out of the water on a cold 
day with a split-open rudder, so ice can wreck them.

Joe
Coquina
C 35 MK I

From: Nathan Post via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 10:00 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Nathan Post 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

Hi Brian,

There are differing views on wet rudders.  Mine fills up with seawater over the 
season - the first few seasons I drilled a hole near the bottom and let it 
drain while hauled out for the winter (don't want it to freeze and break the 
rudder).  Each spring I filled the hole, sanded, barrier coat and paint.  A 
year ago I installed threaded bronze fitting so that I can plug it with a set 
screw instead of drilling and patching each year.  My guess is a previous owner 
on your boat was doing something similar, exploring your rudder for water and 
perhaps poorly or not at all repairing the holes afterwards.  Depending on how 
you use the boat (e.g. offshore vs. coastal cruising) and where, getting it 
rebuilt may be a good idea or might be unnecessary - e.g. is getting help and a 
tow reasonable if it was to fail? The main concern would be if it is still 
structurally sound or if the metal components are too corroded and could fail 
at some point which is hard to tell without opening it up and rebuilding it. 
There are lots of different opinions on how likely a problem is but nearly all 
older boats have wet rudders it seems and they don't appear to fail very often 
on the C at least as far as I know.

Nathan
S/V Wisper
Lynn MA
1981 C 34 CB
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

There is a good chance that every rudder in the yard is wet.  The biggest
risk is that the web that is welded to the shaft may rust to the point of
failure and the shaft could then rotate in the rudder.  Very worst case the
fiberglass would fall away from the shaft.

In the interim the water can freeze in the rudder and crack the
fiberglass.  Lots of owners drill drain holes in the fall and bondo them in
the spring.  I've heard of others wrapping the rudder in black plastic to
help draw heat to prevent freezing.

I had mine rebuilt by a local guy and while the rudder was completely water
logged it is my assessment that it probably would have continued to be safe
and functional indefinitely.  The welds were immaculate and the web was
bonded appropriately to the one of the fiberglass sides - port in this
case.  Attached are the pictures he took during the job.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA=0-0YHF96cEkxjrvru4nk9bbA


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 08:45 Brian Davis via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Good morning everyone! Happy New Year!
>
> I've spent the last 2 weeks totally sanding Nina's bottom down to the gel
> coat in prep for a new paint job using The Black Widow from Pettit.
>
> I came across some issues with the rudder yesterday and was wondering if
> any of you have fixed similar.   After sand it down too, I could tell there
> was some glass and bondo work done on the trailing edge. I Dremeled out the
> spots and have a great marine epoxy to fill since they aren't deep.
>
> However, there was water dripping from a hole or shaft of sorts on the
> underside near the leading edge about a few inches back. I inserted a dowel
> stick about 5" up and it seems solid. So drilled a hole where a previous
> hole was on the bottom face of the starboard side. About 3oz of water came
> out. The yard lead tech suggest I pull the rudder and send to FossFoam near
> Gainesville FL to rebuild it. They quoted $2,000 and said that they were
> probably the original manufacturer.
>
> Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.  Here is a link to some
> pics.
>
> Regards,
> Brian
> 1980 Landfall 38SL
>
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1kFXgarL4apwcKsr6cjQxp41_qsU12Kcw
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder issues

[Nathan Post via CnC-List]

Hi Brian,

There are differing views on wet rudders.  Mine fills up with seawater over
the season - the first few seasons I drilled a hole near the bottom and let
it drain while hauled out for the winter (don't want it to freeze and
break the rudder).  Each spring I filled the hole, sanded, barrier coat and
paint.  A year ago I installed threaded bronze fitting so that I can plug
it with a set screw instead of drilling and patching each year.  My guess
is a previous owner on your boat was doing something similar, exploring
your rudder for water and perhaps poorly or not at all repairing the holes
afterwards.  Depending on how you use the boat (e.g. offshore vs. coastal
cruising) and where, getting it rebuilt may be a good idea or might be
unnecessary - e.g. is getting help and a tow reasonable if it was to fail?
The main concern would be if it is still structurally sound or if the metal
components are too corroded and could fail at some point which is hard to
tell without opening it up and rebuilding it. There are lots of
different opinions on how likely a problem is but nearly all older boats
have wet rudders it seems and they don't appear to fail very often on the
C at least as far as I know.

Nathan
S/V Wisper
Lynn MA
1981 C 34 CB
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Rudder issues

[Brian Davis via CnC-List]

Good morning everyone! Happy New Year!

I've spent the last 2 weeks totally sanding Nina's bottom down to the gel
coat in prep for a new paint job using The Black Widow from Pettit.

I came across some issues with the rudder yesterday and was wondering if
any of you have fixed similar.   After sand it down too, I could tell there
was some glass and bondo work done on the trailing edge. I Dremeled out the
spots and have a great marine epoxy to fill since they aren't deep.

However, there was water dripping from a hole or shaft of sorts on the
underside near the leading edge about a few inches back. I inserted a dowel
stick about 5" up and it seems solid. So drilled a hole where a previous
hole was on the bottom face of the starboard side. About 3oz of water came
out. The yard lead tech suggest I pull the rudder and send to FossFoam near
Gainesville FL to rebuild it. They quoted $2,000 and said that they were
probably the original manufacturer.

Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.  Here is a link to some
pics.

Regards,
Brian
1980 Landfall 38SL



https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1kFXgarL4apwcKsr6cjQxp41_qsU12Kcw
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu