Re: [CGUYS] silvery
puɐʇsɹǝpun ʇ,uop ı rleesimon wrote: Ë™ÇÉ¥olÊ É sÉ poÉ¹Ê Çɥʇ ʇnq 'ÉŸÇlʇsı ÊŽq ɹÇʇÇʇl ÊŽÇÊŒÉ¹Ç pÇÉɹ ʇou soÇp pıuɯ uɯÉnÉ¥ Çɥʇ ÇÉÇsnÉ”q sı sɥıʇ˙ɯlÇqɹod ʇıɥʇnoÊ Ê‡Ä± pÇÉɹ llʇıs uÉÉ” noÊŽ puÉ sÇsɯ lÉʇoʇ É Çq uÉÉ” ʇÇsɹ Çɥʇ˙ÇÉlÉ”d ʇıɥƃɹ Çɥʇ Ê‡É Çq ɹÇÇʇʇl ʇÉsl puÉ Ê‡sıɹɟ Çɥʇ ʇɥÉʇ ʇuʇÉoɯɹdı ÊŽulo s,ʇı 'ÇÉ¹É poÉ¹Ê É uı sɹÇÇʇʇl Çɥʇ ɹpÇɹo ʇɥÉÊ É¹ÇʇÉʇɯ ʇ,souÇp ʇı * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
¿¿ uʍop ǝpısdn -Original Message- From: John Duncan Yoyo [mailto:johnduncany...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:16 PM Subject: Re: silvery How did you manage to turn my monitor upside down? On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:43 PM, t.piwowar wrote: > .looɔ > > On Jul 17, 2009, at 5:05 PM, rleesimon wrote: > >> ˙ǝɥolʍ ɐ sɐ poɹʍ ǝɥʇ ʇnq 'ɟǝlʇsı ʎq ɹǝʇǝʇl ʎǝʌɹǝ pǝɐɹ ʇou soǝp pıuɯ >> uɯɐnɥ ǝɥʇ ǝɐǝsnɔq sı sɥıʇ˙ɯlǝqɹod ʇıɥʇnoʍ ʇı pǝɐɹ llʇıs uɐɔ noʎ puɐ sǝsɯ >> lɐʇoʇ ɐ ǝq uɐɔ ʇǝsɹ ǝɥʇ˙ǝɐlɔd ʇıɥƃɹ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ǝq ɹǝǝʇʇl ʇɐsl puɐ ʇsıɹɟ ǝɥʇ >> ʇɥɐʇ >> ʇuʇɐoɯɹdı ʎulo s,ʇı 'ǝɹɐ poɹʍ ɐ uı sɹǝǝʇʇl ǝɥʇ ɹpǝɹo ʇɥɐʍ ɹǝʇɐʇɯ ʇ,souǝp >> ʇı * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
How did you manage to turn my monitor upside down? On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:43 PM, t.piwowar wrote: > .looɔ > > On Jul 17, 2009, at 5:05 PM, rleesimon wrote: > >> ˙ǝɥolʍ ɐ sɐ poɹʍ ǝɥʇ ʇnq 'ɟǝlʇsı ʎq ɹǝʇǝʇl ʎǝʌɹǝ pǝɐɹ ʇou soǝp pıuɯ >> uɯɐnɥ ǝɥʇ ǝɐǝsnɔq sı sɥıʇ˙ɯlǝqɹod ʇıɥʇnoʍ ʇı pǝɐɹ llʇıs uɐɔ noʎ puɐ sǝsɯ >> lɐʇoʇ ɐ ǝq uɐɔ ʇǝsɹ ǝɥʇ˙ǝɐlɔd ʇıɥƃɹ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ǝq ɹǝǝʇʇl ʇɐsl puɐ ʇsıɹɟ ǝɥʇ >> ʇɥɐʇ >> ʇuʇɐoɯɹdı ʎulo s,ʇı 'ǝɹɐ poɹʍ ɐ uı sɹǝǝʇʇl ǝɥʇ ɹpǝɹo ʇɥɐʍ ɹǝʇɐʇɯ ʇ,souǝp >> ʇı >> > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o)
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
.looɔ On Jul 17, 2009, at 5:05 PM, rleesimon wrote: ˙ǝɥolʍ ɐ sɐ poɹʍ ǝɥʇ ʇnq 'ɟǝlʇsı ʎq ɹǝʇǝʇl ʎǝʌɹǝ pǝɐɹ ʇou soǝp pıuɯ uɯɐnɥ ǝɥʇ ǝɐǝsnɔq sı sɥıʇ˙ɯlǝqɹod ʇıɥʇnoʍ ʇı pǝɐɹ llʇıs uɐɔ noʎ puɐ sǝsɯ lɐʇoʇ ɐ ǝq uɐɔ ʇǝsɹ ǝɥʇ˙ǝɐlɔd ʇıɥƃɹ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ǝq ɹǝǝʇʇl ʇɐsl puɐ ʇsıɹɟ ǝɥʇ ʇɥɐʇ ʇuʇɐoɯɹdı ʎulo s,ʇı 'ǝɹɐ poɹʍ ɐ uı sɹǝǝʇʇl ǝɥʇ ɹpǝɹo ʇɥɐʍ ɹǝʇɐʇɯ ʇ,souǝp ʇı * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
˙ǝɥolʍ ɐ sɐ poɹʍ ǝɥʇ ʇnq 'ɟǝlʇsı ʎq ɹǝʇǝʇl ʎǝʌɹǝ pǝɐɹ ʇou soǝp pıuɯ uɯɐnɥ ǝɥʇ ǝɐǝsnɔq sı sɥıʇ˙ɯlǝqɹod ʇıɥʇnoʍ ʇı pǝɐɹ llʇıs uɐɔ noʎ puɐ sǝsɯ lɐʇoʇ ɐ ǝq uɐɔ ʇǝsɹ ǝɥʇ˙ǝɐlɔd ʇıɥƃɹ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ ǝq ɹǝǝʇʇl ʇɐsl puɐ ʇsıɹɟ ǝɥʇ ʇɥɐʇ ʇuʇɐoɯɹdı ʎulo s,ʇı 'ǝɹɐ poɹʍ ɐ uı sɹǝǝʇʇl ǝɥʇ ɹpǝɹo ʇɥɐʍ ɹǝʇɐʇɯ ʇ,souǝp ʇı -Original Message- From: b_s-wilk [mailto:b1sun...@yahoo.es] Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:43 PM Subject: Re: silvery Jeff Miles excribió: > You remind me of my uncle, fun wise. He's moving to Mexico. He's in his > mid 70s. His wife, mid 60s, but I never asked. Anyway, I've been looking at > a house two blocks up the street I've always wanted, but moving is such a > pain. I'll stick with what I've got. > It's not must moving all the stuff, that's bad enough, but all the > services and everything, what a pain. And I have a 5000 gallon pond, what > would I do with that? > Like I said, you remind me of my uncle. Don't get to attached, give > things up and off you go. My grandfather [the prestidigitator] used to say, "Don't have too many possessions because they will possess you!" [he also said, "They're all fakes!"] George Carlin sez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac -- but we still have too much stuff. I travel with a 21" carry-on and a messenger bag for trips as long as a month. I have to check my suitcase even though it's small enough to fit in the overhead cabinets above the seats, thanks to Homeland In-Security, because I have dangerous things like shampoo, hair gel, and a small Swiss army knife that I use for its corkscrew and scissors. They let me carry plastic utensils that can cut food [and people], AND unprotected passports. I could carry a sharpened credit card on board, but passports remain unprotected as delivered. Homeland In-Security is confused about safety and when profiling passengers is both appropriate and legal. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
Jeff Miles excribió: You remind me of my uncle, fun wise. He's moving to Mexico. He's in his mid 70s. His wife, mid 60s, but I never asked. Anyway, I've been looking at a house two blocks up the street I've always wanted, but moving is such a pain. I'll stick with what I've got. It's not must moving all the stuff, that's bad enough, but all the services and everything, what a pain. And I have a 5000 gallon pond, what would I do with that? Like I said, you remind me of my uncle. Don't get to attached, give things up and off you go. My grandfather [the prestidigitator] used to say, "Don't have too many possessions because they will possess you!" [he also said, "They're all fakes!"] George Carlin sez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac -- but we still have too much stuff. I travel with a 21" carry-on and a messenger bag for trips as long as a month. I have to check my suitcase even though it's small enough to fit in the overhead cabinets above the seats, thanks to Homeland In-Security, because I have dangerous things like shampoo, hair gel, and a small Swiss army knife that I use for its corkscrew and scissors. They let me carry plastic utensils that can cut food [and people], AND unprotected passports. I could carry a sharpened credit card on board, but passports remain unprotected as delivered. Homeland In-Security is confused about safety and when profiling passengers is both appropriate and legal. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
Betty, You remind me of my uncle, fun wise. He's moving to Mexico. He's in his mid 70s. His wife, mid 60s, but I never asked. Anyway, I've been looking at a house two blocks up the street I've always wanted, but moving is such a pain. I'll stick with what I've got. It's not must moving all the stuff, that's bad enough, but all the services and everything, what a pain. And I have a 5000 gallon pond, what would I do with that? Like I said, you remind me of my uncle. Don't get to attached, give things up and off you go. Jeff M On Jul 16, 2009, at 12:00 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: > No they haven't. Calm down. If you feel danger in these places you're > being forced to travel to, then you should consider a new job. > > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: >> > People have been targeted through their RFID tagged passports in places like Yes they have. So, you don't read the Guardian or the Register or Wired? Early on, young hackers changed their grades on high school and university computers, then it was the phone phreaks, then the stolen remote codes for cars and trucks, then the hacked "blink" cards/passes. Entire bank and credit card databases have been compromised. It's a tiny step from there to hacking passports. There have been stories about hacked passport chips for at least 3 years. The US isn't the only country with chipped passports. Examples: http://tinyurl.com/yufasr, http://tinyurl.com/s2h2k, http://tinyurl.com/caswtl , http://tinyurl.com/ak67l4 Chipped passports won't stop us from enjoying our travel. The thieves did me a favor. I got my new passport one month before the RFID ones were issued. Danger? We look for disasters: Airfares and everything else are cheaper after a scare, like the time we booked a flight to Malaga after it was bombed by ETA, and paid less than 1/2 of the discounted price; luckily we left Alicante a day before it was bombed two blocks from our apartment. We also went to southern Turkey soon after 9/11 and loved it. Life is NOT boring! Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
I think it's remiss of the issuing agencies not to make the passport reliably unreadable when closed ...they claim to have done it but some show that to be untrue...hackers may not read your data but ID your country of origin for targeting...I am sure it will (or has already) happen (ed) !! -Original Message- From: b_s-wilk [mailto:b1sun...@yahoo.es] Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: silvery > No they haven't. Calm down. If you feel danger in these places you're > being forced to travel to, then you should consider a new job. > > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: >> > People have been targeted through their RFID tagged passports in places like Yes they have. So, you don't read the Guardian or the Register or Wired? Early on, young hackers changed their grades on high school and university computers, then it was the phone phreaks, then the stolen remote codes for cars and trucks, then the hacked "blink" cards/passes. Entire bank and credit card databases have been compromised. It's a tiny step from there to hacking passports. There have been stories about hacked passport chips for at least 3 years. The US isn't the only country with chipped passports. Examples: http://tinyurl.com/yufasr, http://tinyurl.com/s2h2k, http://tinyurl.com/caswtl, http://tinyurl.com/ak67l4 Chipped passports won't stop us from enjoying our travel. The thieves did me a favor. I got my new passport one month before the RFID ones were issued. Danger? We look for disasters: Airfares and everything else are cheaper after a scare, like the time we booked a flight to Malaga after it was bombed by ETA, and paid less than 1/2 of the discounted price; luckily we left Alicante a day before it was bombed two blocks from our apartment. We also went to southern Turkey soon after 9/11 and loved it. Life is NOT boring! Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
> No they haven't. Calm down. If you feel danger in these places you're > being forced to travel to, then you should consider a new job. > > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: >> > People have been targeted through their RFID tagged passports in places like Yes they have. So, you don't read the Guardian or the Register or Wired? Early on, young hackers changed their grades on high school and university computers, then it was the phone phreaks, then the stolen remote codes for cars and trucks, then the hacked "blink" cards/passes. Entire bank and credit card databases have been compromised. It's a tiny step from there to hacking passports. There have been stories about hacked passport chips for at least 3 years. The US isn't the only country with chipped passports. Examples: http://tinyurl.com/yufasr, http://tinyurl.com/s2h2k, http://tinyurl.com/caswtl, http://tinyurl.com/ak67l4 Chipped passports won't stop us from enjoying our travel. The thieves did me a favor. I got my new passport one month before the RFID ones were issued. Danger? We look for disasters: Airfares and everything else are cheaper after a scare, like the time we booked a flight to Malaga after it was bombed by ETA, and paid less than 1/2 of the discounted price; luckily we left Alicante a day before it was bombed two blocks from our apartment. We also went to southern Turkey soon after 9/11 and loved it. Life is NOT boring! Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
On Jul 16, 2009, at 8:57 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Would an anti static bag work as well? Anybody up for testing a Metro Smartrip card wrapped in an anti- static bag? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
Would an anti static bag work as well? Stewart At 03:32 AM 7/16/2009, you wrote: On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Constance Warner wrote: > If you're concerned about RFIDs on passports, make a RFID-proof duck tape > wallet. There are plans and how-tos all over the net, for example: > > http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Duct-Tape-Wallet If you add a layer of tin foil between the sheets of Duct tape it should be more effective. -- John Duncan Yoyo Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Constance Warner wrote: > If you're concerned about RFIDs on passports, make a RFID-proof duck tape > wallet. There are plans and how-tos all over the net, for example: > > http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Duct-Tape-Wallet If you add a layer of tin foil between the sheets of Duct tape it should be more effective. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Constance Warner wrote: (BTW, the original name of the stuff is DUCK tape, not duct tape. The original tape was used on ammunition boxes in WW II, the idea being that the tape was as waterproof as ducks.) And Duck/Duct tape is not at all good for use on duct work. There is a special tape for that, which is a lot different. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
The names or name of duck/duct tape are still under dispute. There was a duck tape that predates ww2 as well as a duct tape that predates...but it's a nice story just the same. On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Constance Warner wrote: > If you're concerned about RFIDs on passports, make a RFID-proof duck tape > wallet. There are plans and how-tos all over the net, for example: > > http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Duct-Tape-Wallet > > (BTW, the original name of the stuff is DUCK tape, not duct tape. The > original tape was used on ammunition boxes in WW II, the idea being that the > tape was as waterproof as ducks.) > > I have also heard of scan-proof wallets but have never investigated them. > > --Constance Warner > > > On Jul 15, 2009, at 5:17 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: > > > People steal identities all the time. It does not require reading a >> > passport rfid. Nor does reading a passport rfid make it any easier. >> > >> > It may be true in the future that muggers will carry rfid scanners. >> > They may be small enough that they could be concealed in the clothing, >> > and would perhaps use a projection system to display the data inside >> > the thief's retina where no one else could see what he was doing. But >> > if you're worried about real life violence *today*, then you'll want >> > to stop going to grocery stores or worse - don't ever stop to fill up >> > your gas tank! >> >> >> People like Tony don't go anywhere exciting or dangerous, so he doesn't >> have to worry. >> >> People have been targeted through their RFID tagged passports in places >> like London or Hamburg or Amsterdam or Tunis. The typical RFID scanner can >> only read a tag from a distance of around 12". The boosted RFID readers can >> read the tags in passports and other cards at a distance of 30 feet and >> more. >> >> I'd rather be safe than sorry, especially after being robbed at gunpoint >> in another country a couple of years ago, and another time being caught in >> the middle of riots. "Disaster travel" can be dangerous, but it will always >> be exciting--never boring. >> >> Betty >> >> --- >> >> >> * >> ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** >> ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** >> * >> > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
If you're concerned about RFIDs on passports, make a RFID-proof duck tape wallet. There are plans and how-tos all over the net, for example: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Duct-Tape-Wallet (BTW, the original name of the stuff is DUCK tape, not duct tape. The original tape was used on ammunition boxes in WW II, the idea being that the tape was as waterproof as ducks.) I have also heard of scan-proof wallets but have never investigated them. --Constance Warner On Jul 15, 2009, at 5:17 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: > People steal identities all the time. It does not require reading a > passport rfid. Nor does reading a passport rfid make it any easier. > > It may be true in the future that muggers will carry rfid scanners. > They may be small enough that they could be concealed in the clothing, > and would perhaps use a projection system to display the data inside > the thief's retina where no one else could see what he was doing. But > if you're worried about real life violence *today*, then you'll want > to stop going to grocery stores or worse - don't ever stop to fill up > your gas tank! People like Tony don't go anywhere exciting or dangerous, so he doesn't have to worry. People have been targeted through their RFID tagged passports in places like London or Hamburg or Amsterdam or Tunis. The typical RFID scanner can only read a tag from a distance of around 12". The boosted RFID readers can read the tags in passports and other cards at a distance of 30 feet and more. I'd rather be safe than sorry, especially after being robbed at gunpoint in another country a couple of years ago, and another time being caught in the middle of riots. "Disaster travel" can be dangerous, but it will always be exciting--never boring. Betty --- ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
No they haven't. Calm down. If you feel danger in these places you're being forced to travel to, then you should consider a new job. On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: > People have been targeted through their RFID tagged passports in places like * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
> People steal identities all the time. It does not require reading a > passport rfid. Nor does reading a passport rfid make it any easier. > > It may be true in the future that muggers will carry rfid scanners. > They may be small enough that they could be concealed in the clothing, > and would perhaps use a projection system to display the data inside > the thief's retina where no one else could see what he was doing. But > if you're worried about real life violence *today*, then you'll want > to stop going to grocery stores or worse - don't ever stop to fill up > your gas tank! People like Tony don't go anywhere exciting or dangerous, so he doesn't have to worry. People have been targeted through their RFID tagged passports in places like London or Hamburg or Amsterdam or Tunis. The typical RFID scanner can only read a tag from a distance of around 12". The boosted RFID readers can read the tags in passports and other cards at a distance of 30 feet and more. I'd rather be safe than sorry, especially after being robbed at gunpoint in another country a couple of years ago, and another time being caught in the middle of riots. "Disaster travel" can be dangerous, but it will always be exciting--never boring. Betty --- * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
Are there inexpensive scanners available? Seems like a good thing for one to have... countermeasures / escalation is inherent with every technology. db Judy Cosler wrote: what items have RFID? how does one tell? (I saw the version of US passport online that has RFID) On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 2:12 PM, rleesimon wrote: Good point, old film, clearly states "proposed" shield system ...I think it was just to demo it. Still, I think there is food for thought here (not in the trash can). -Original Message- From: Eric S. Sande [mailto:esa...@erols.com] Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:48 PM Subject: Re: silvery Except that the passport shown was not RFID equipped. RFID passports have a symbol under the "United States of America" part on the front cover. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Us-passport.jpg * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
what items have RFID? how does one tell? (I saw the version of US passport online that has RFID) On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 2:12 PM, rleesimon wrote: > Good point, old film, clearly states "proposed" shield system ...I think it > was just to demo it. Still, I think there is food for thought here (not in > the trash can). > > -Original Message- > From: Eric S. Sande [mailto:esa...@erols.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:48 PM > Subject: Re: silvery > > Except that the passport shown was not RFID equipped. > > RFID passports have a symbol under the "United States of America" part on > the front cover. > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Us-passport.jpg > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
Good point, old film, clearly states "proposed" shield system ...I think it was just to demo it. Still, I think there is food for thought here (not in the trash can). -Original Message- From: Eric S. Sande [mailto:esa...@erols.com] Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:48 PM Subject: Re: silvery Except that the passport shown was not RFID equipped. RFID passports have a symbol under the "United States of America" part on the front cover. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Us-passport.jpg * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
Except that the passport shown was not RFID equipped. RFID passports have a symbol under the "United States of America" part on the front cover. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Us-passport.jpg * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XXaqraF7pI -Original Message- From: db [mailto:db...@att.net] Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:35 PM Subject: Re: silvery What "trash can" video ? db rleesimon wrote: > The real thing is, even not decoded, the rfid file may have a certain > "signature" or other recognizable stuff that would let one ID you as an > American and set off a bomb with a simple switch unattended to get a high > value target ...did you watch the "trash can" video link ?? > > -Original Message- > From: t.piwowar [mailto:t...@tjpa.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 1:13 PM > Subject: Re: silvery > > On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Art Clemons wrote: > >> Muggers don't need a display to capture the data. >> > > In addition to RFID tags on all your possessions, I'm told that > during the Bush administration, RFID tags were added to high > denomination US currency. With a little bit of tech development, this > would make mugging much more efficient. The muggie could be scanned > much like at a supermarket check out and a total value displayed. > Perhaps there could be a "pro" model that displays a top-10 list of > the most valuable items the muggie was carrying. The mugger could > them make a quick go/no-go decision and skip the low value targets. > This would also thwart dishonesty on the part of the muggie who might > otherwise deny possession of certain valuables or perhaps carry a > second wallet. > ** > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Fred Holmes wrote: > Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that you aren't being targeted. Another intended use for RFID chips is to allow merchants to be able to obtain information about who a particular customer is, their name, address and other personal matters. This info would be contained within an RFID chip embedded in a credit or bonus card that was issued to the consumer by the retailer. This information would be read as the customer approaches a sales desk, kiosk or other area of a store. This will provide a store employee with access to info that they can then use to quickly obtain a profile on the customer, which can include prior purchasing proclivities and habits, dollar amounts spent, areas of interest, etc., etc., etc. This would give the salesperson a tremendous advantage in terms of pertinent info that can be used to steer the customer in a certain direction that would probably not be to the advantage of the consumer, but to the advantage of the retailer. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
At 02:49 PM 7/12/2009, Rich Schinnell wrote: >I am not paranoid, are you? Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that you aren't being targeted. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
Just pay cash. At 06:57 AM 7/12/2009, Tony B wrote: >It may be true in the future that muggers will carry rfid scanners. >They may be small enough that they could be concealed in the clothing, >and would perhaps use a projection system to display the data inside >the thief's retina where no one else could see what he was doing. But >if you're worried about real life violence *today*, then you'll want >to stop going to grocery stores or worse - don't ever stop to fill up >your gas tank! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
On Jul 12, 2009, at 2:26 PM, Tony B wrote: This is a great idea, and would certainly be advantageous to me, as everyone around me is likely to be carrying more valuables than myself. Finally an advantage we can ascribe to PC use. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
On Jul 12, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Rich Schinnell wrote: I am not paranoid, are you? I'm not, but everyone around me is. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
What "trash can" video ? db rleesimon wrote: The real thing is, even not decoded, the rfid file may have a certain "signature" or other recognizable stuff that would let one ID you as an American and set off a bomb with a simple switch unattended to get a high value target ...did you watch the "trash can" video link ?? -Original Message- From: t.piwowar [mailto:t...@tjpa.com] Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 1:13 PM Subject: Re: silvery On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Art Clemons wrote: Muggers don't need a display to capture the data. In addition to RFID tags on all your possessions, I'm told that during the Bush administration, RFID tags were added to high denomination US currency. With a little bit of tech development, this would make mugging much more efficient. The muggie could be scanned much like at a supermarket check out and a total value displayed. Perhaps there could be a "pro" model that displays a top-10 list of the most valuable items the muggie was carrying. The mugger could them make a quick go/no-go decision and skip the low value targets. This would also thwart dishonesty on the part of the muggie who might otherwise deny possession of certain valuables or perhaps carry a second wallet. ** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
I am not paranoid, are you? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
This is a great idea, and would certainly be advantageous to me, as everyone around me is likely to be carrying more valuables than myself. Could they tell if you had the newest gadgets with you? On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 1:12 PM, t.piwowar wrote: > On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Art Clemons wrote: >> >> Muggers don't need a display to capture the data. > > In addition to RFID tags on all your possessions, I'm told that during the > Bush administration, RFID tags were added to high denomination US currency. > With a little bit of tech development, this would make mugging much more > efficient. The muggie could be scanned much like at a supermarket check out > and a total value displayed. Perhaps there could be a "pro" model that > displays a top-10 list of the most valuable items the muggie was carrying. > The mugger could them make a quick go/no-go decision and skip the low value > targets. This would also thwart dishonesty on the part of the muggie who > might otherwise deny possession of certain valuables or perhaps carry a > second wallet. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
The real thing is, even not decoded, the rfid file may have a certain "signature" or other recognizable stuff that would let one ID you as an American and set off a bomb with a simple switch unattended to get a high value target ...did you watch the "trash can" video link ?? -Original Message- From: t.piwowar [mailto:t...@tjpa.com] Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 1:13 PM Subject: Re: silvery On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Art Clemons wrote: > Muggers don't need a display to capture the data. In addition to RFID tags on all your possessions, I'm told that during the Bush administration, RFID tags were added to high denomination US currency. With a little bit of tech development, this would make mugging much more efficient. The muggie could be scanned much like at a supermarket check out and a total value displayed. Perhaps there could be a "pro" model that displays a top-10 list of the most valuable items the muggie was carrying. The mugger could them make a quick go/no-go decision and skip the low value targets. This would also thwart dishonesty on the part of the muggie who might otherwise deny possession of certain valuables or perhaps carry a second wallet. ** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Art Clemons wrote: Muggers don't need a display to capture the data. In addition to RFID tags on all your possessions, I'm told that during the Bush administration, RFID tags were added to high denomination US currency. With a little bit of tech development, this would make mugging much more efficient. The muggie could be scanned much like at a supermarket check out and a total value displayed. Perhaps there could be a "pro" model that displays a top-10 list of the most valuable items the muggie was carrying. The mugger could them make a quick go/no-go decision and skip the low value targets. This would also thwart dishonesty on the part of the muggie who might otherwise deny possession of certain valuables or perhaps carry a second wallet. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
> People steal identities all the time. It does not require reading a > passport rfid. Nor does reading a passport rfid make it any easier. Ah but it does make it easier. Your place of birth, full name and birth date are encoded and at the least available for recovery. It's a bigger risk than you realize. If you have a Drivers License with RFID, you present legal address is available along with your License number. I suggest that if skimmers are interested in getting the information off ATM cards, RFID info is even more valuable. > It may be true in the future that muggers will carry rfid scanners. > They may be small enough that they could be concealed in the clothing, > and would perhaps use a projection system to display the data inside > the thief's retina where no one else could see what he was doing. But > if you're worried about real life violence *today*, then you'll want > to stop going to grocery stores or worse - don't ever stop to fill up > your gas tank! Muggers don't need a display to capture the data. All they need is some means of later recovering said data. I shudder to think of what one skimmer equivalent for RFID at an airport could accomplish. Paranoia may not be a desirable state, but RFID has lots of risks unless encryption schemes greatly improve. The passport scheme has apparently been hacked, as have many credit card rfid schemes. In a society where people are advised not to wear clothing with a first name, is having a passport that broadcasts your info on command such a good idea? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
But, for those who do travel where Americans are targeted (which has, sadly, become just about everywhere, i.e. northern & central EU where the border relaxation and liberal asylum has led to large populations from the middle east most of whom are fine people but amongst whom there is a small element bent on this), this can be of interest. Some countries are having a close look at this: i.e. Belgium. http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/crypto/passport/index.html -Original Message- From: Tony B [mailto:ton...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:34 PM Subject: Re: silvery Ho hum. With all the _real_ stuff we have to worry about on a daily basis, WTF should I care if some yahoo drives around and picks up my passport RFID? Really, on a 10-scale, with 10 being a great real-world danger such as driving to work in traffic, and 5 being household accidents, I'd have to place RFID passports down around a 1 or less. If you travel a lot in countries where Americans may be targeted, then perhaps the scale would change. But I'm no fool - I simply avoid going to places like that! On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 7:02 PM, rleesimon wrote: > 1 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090711/ap_on_bi_ge/us_chipping_america_iv > > 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XXaqraF7pI * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
People steal identities all the time. It does not require reading a passport rfid. Nor does reading a passport rfid make it any easier. It may be true in the future that muggers will carry rfid scanners. They may be small enough that they could be concealed in the clothing, and would perhaps use a projection system to display the data inside the thief's retina where no one else could see what he was doing. But if you're worried about real life violence *today*, then you'll want to stop going to grocery stores or worse - don't ever stop to fill up your gas tank! On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 2:03 AM, db wrote: > Cause he could be trying to steal your credit identity etc... > > Or maybe 'cause if you have enough things with RFID tags on you, you make a > guaranteed high yield target for mugging. Why both risking a crime over > someone who only has $30 in his wallet? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
Tony B wrote: Ho hum. With all the _real_ stuff we have to worry about on a daily basis, WTF should I care if some yahoo drives around and picks up my passport RFID? Cause he could be trying to steal your credit identity etc... Or maybe 'cause if you have enough things with RFID tags on you, you make a guaranteed high yield target for mugging. Why both risking a crime over someone who only has $30 in his wallet? db Really, on a 10-scale, with 10 being a great real-world danger such as driving to work in traffic, and 5 being household accidents, I'd have to place RFID passports down around a 1 or less. If you travel a lot in countries where Americans may be targeted, then perhaps the scale would change. But I'm no fool - I simply avoid going to places like that! On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 7:02 PM, rleesimon wrote: 1 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090711/ap_on_bi_ge/us_chipping_america_iv 2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XXaqraF7pI * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
Ho hum. With all the _real_ stuff we have to worry about on a daily basis, WTF should I care if some yahoo drives around and picks up my passport RFID? Really, on a 10-scale, with 10 being a great real-world danger such as driving to work in traffic, and 5 being household accidents, I'd have to place RFID passports down around a 1 or less. If you travel a lot in countries where Americans may be targeted, then perhaps the scale would change. But I'm no fool - I simply avoid going to places like that! On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 7:02 PM, rleesimon wrote: > 1 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090711/ap_on_bi_ge/us_chipping_america_iv > > 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XXaqraF7pI * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
I opted for IdentityStronghold.com selling sleeves for $5.99 (a buk off each if you get 3) and with each you get free a sleeve for your credit card "blink" or driver's license if it has RFID. Pretty gud! -Original Message- From: John Duncan Yoyo [mailto:johnduncany...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:00 PM Subject: Re: silvery You could make a duct tape wallet with a layer of tin foil in the middle of the duct tape. Easy, cheap and as guady or dowdy as you desire. They also sell passport wallets with a liner that blocks RFID as well. On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 7:02 PM, rleesimon wrote: > When you get electronic parts they come in an "antistatic" envelope which > is > silvery on one face and clear on the other face. Everyone has some of > these > around. Passports have the RFID chips; so do credit cards and other stuff. > > > > What is in there? If it is static shielding, will it also absorb or shield > partially or fully passive RFID antennas so a guy could put it into a > passport wallet and "improve" the safety against the RFID being "seen" at a > distance (which is supposed to be less than a yard but some say can be > detected up to 69 feet) which may, as is pointed out, have encrypted data > which makes ID theft a remote possibility. But, might it make one > identifiable1 as even having a passport or more so what country the > passport > represents which makes for a terrorist threat with some simple cheap > electronics goods2. > > > > See these: > > > > 1 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090711/ap_on_bi_ge/us_chipping_america_iv > > 2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XXaqraF7pI > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] silvery
You could make a duct tape wallet with a layer of tin foil in the middle of the duct tape. Easy, cheap and as guady or dowdy as you desire. They also sell passport wallets with a liner that blocks RFID as well. On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 7:02 PM, rleesimon wrote: > When you get electronic parts they come in an "antistatic" envelope which > is > silvery on one face and clear on the other face. Everyone has some of > these > around. Passports have the RFID chips; so do credit cards and other stuff. > > > > What is in there? If it is static shielding, will it also absorb or shield > partially or fully passive RFID antennas so a guy could put it into a > passport wallet and "improve" the safety against the RFID being "seen" at a > distance (which is supposed to be less than a yard but some say can be > detected up to 69 feet) which may, as is pointed out, have encrypted data > which makes ID theft a remote possibility. But, might it make one > identifiable1 as even having a passport or more so what country the > passport > represents which makes for a terrorist threat with some simple cheap > electronics goods2. > > > > See these: > > > > 1 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090711/ap_on_bi_ge/us_chipping_america_iv > > 2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XXaqraF7pI > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] silvery
When you get electronic parts they come in an "antistatic" envelope which is silvery on one face and clear on the other face. Everyone has some of these around. Passports have the RFID chips; so do credit cards and other stuff. What is in there? If it is static shielding, will it also absorb or shield partially or fully passive RFID antennas so a guy could put it into a passport wallet and "improve" the safety against the RFID being "seen" at a distance (which is supposed to be less than a yard but some say can be detected up to 69 feet) which may, as is pointed out, have encrypted data which makes ID theft a remote possibility. But, might it make one identifiable1 as even having a passport or more so what country the passport represents which makes for a terrorist threat with some simple cheap electronics goods2. See these: 1 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090711/ap_on_bi_ge/us_chipping_america_iv 2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XXaqraF7pI * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
