Re: [Cooker] I wish cooker was cooker and cooker only!
Actually, when I downloaded the ISO's for the beta, the Mandrake site requested I also join the Cooker mailing list. So it seems like as far as Mandrake is concerned, Cooker and Beta are the same thing. Jean-Marc Valin wrote: I wish we dedicated this list (cooker) for the development version of Mandrake Linux, namely cooker! then, why isn't there a mandrake-beta mailing list... I wanted to send a list of bugs for the beta and cooker was the closest list I found. So there are three choices: - people continue sending beta bug reports to cooker - a new mailing list is created (or if it exists, it should be more publicized) - Mandrake asks beta users NOT to send bug reports (it would slightly defeat the goals of a beta, though!) Jean-Marc Valin -- Digital Wokan Tribal mage of the electronics age Guerilla Linux Warrior
Re: [Cooker] I wish cooker was cooker and cooker only!
Eugenio Diaz wrote: I wish we dedicated this list (cooker) for the development version of Mandrake Linux, namely cooker! Every, three or four months we have this thing called "Beta Release", and good God does cooker and cooker development die ... we get like 1dB noise to signal on cooker issues! All kinds of people (mostly beta installers with limited knowledge) join in and pollute the troubleshooting of real deep problems with install reports and silly questions. I am not saying that this should not occur; I am just saying that it should occur on another separate list. I do a lot of trouble shooting of real architectural problems on the distro, and I like doing that because I like living on the edge; but every time we get into the beta cycles I just get tired of reading 200+ messages (90% unimportant) trying to look for the ones from cooker "regulars". I delete anything that has "install" or "beta" in the subject. Another thing I would like to see from Mandrake is a "**real** database driven web-based public bugtraking system" like bugzilla or Double Chocolate. Actually this was my first suggestion when I joined the list a year ago. I used to be a rawhide nut; they use bugzilla, and that provided a very efficient way to see exactly what has been happening with a bug, from its report to its resolution/closure. It provided a real way for contributors to contribute resolutions without duplicating efforts; but more (actually much much much more) important, it kept a record of problem-solution. Very often I have seen that we spend a lot of time identifing/troubleshooting/solving a problem with some package, and after it is solved it happens again, sometimes in the same package a couple of releases later. If Mandrake does not have anybody to install a bugzilla box I volunteer to do it. And please don't tell me you already have a bugtracking system, since that Debian email based system just does not compare to Bugzilla, plus it does not have a web interface. I think that bouncing back and forth a problem through email is just an inefficient way of defining/documenting/solving it; much less build a knowledge base. Which brings me to the other advantage of such a system, a "Knowledge Base". A FAQ or a mail archive are NOT reasonable a knowledge base of a modern vendor. Pardon my criticism, but I think that if we got a little more organized we could do so much more. -- Eugenio Diaz, BSEE/BSCE Linux Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, I agree with you Eugenio, and this mailing list looks very like a discution forum for every buddy ( just like the last message I sent ) ... and SO WHAT!!! ??? Regarding your opinion I am a parasite! houahahaha! But if this mailing list is the only mean for beta testing for Mandrake for now, I think they DO KNOW when they will need a separete bug tracking system for beta testing and/or newbies!!! And yes, I am not an expert and I really like Mandrake and their confident on us - hi-end users who whish to learn Linux and reports some issues in our own knowledge. This make the experience for both them an us really rich in term of public relations and "hi-end" situations. I know %80 of my requests are ignored. This means that I must waste space and bandwidth on this list. If I really disturb them ( at Mandrake) I think they will remove me from their mailing list with a polite and true message describing the ( or my ) incompatible situation. Instead I think they need us , our opinion, and are willing to help us when they feel like or when they can. because they are COOL! . This cooker list is the way for now. DOT . Serge Lussier
Re: [Cooker] I wish cooker was cooker and cooker only!
I wish we dedicated this list (cooker) for the development version of Mandrake Linux, namely cooker! then, why isn't there a mandrake-beta mailing list... I wanted to send a list of bugs for the beta and cooker was the closest list I found. So there are three choices: - people continue sending beta bug reports to cooker - a new mailing list is created (or if it exists, it should be more publicized) - Mandrake asks beta users NOT to send bug reports (it would slightly defeat the goals of a beta, though!) Jean-Marc Valin
Re: [Cooker] I wish cooker was cooker and cooker only!
Serge Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] I know %80 of my requests are ignored. This means that I must waste Actually I think 80% of "valid" and "nicely formatted" requests are not ignored. What is ignored most of the time is posts with irrelevant subject lines, badly quoted, aggressive, noisy/messy (e.g. 200 lines for only one interesting information), etc. Or, most of the time, posts than underline stuff that have already been said or, even, already fixed. [...] space and bandwidth on this list. If I really disturb them ( at Mandrake) I think they will remove me from their mailing list with a polite and true message describing the ( or my ) incompatible situation. I don't know of anyone that we would have removed from this list.. [...] Instead I think they need us , our opinion, and are willing to help us when they feel like or when they can. because they are COOL! . Oh. At least that's what we try to do -- and that's true, cooker is one of our most important resource. -- Guillaume Cottenceau -- Distribution Developer for MandrakeSoft http://www.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] I wish cooker was cooker and cooker only!
Jean-Marc Valin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wish we dedicated this list (cooker) for the development version of Mandrake Linux, namely cooker! then, why isn't there a mandrake-beta mailing list... I wanted to send a list of bugs for the beta and cooker was the closest list I found. So there are three AFAIK there's also [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Cooker] I wish cooker was cooker and cooker only!
I wish we dedicated this list (cooker) for the development version of Mandrake Linux, namely cooker! Every, three or four months we have this thing called "Beta Release", and good God does cooker and cooker development die ... we get like 1dB noise to signal on cooker issues! All kinds of people (mostly beta installers with limited knowledge) join in and pollute the troubleshooting of real deep problems with install reports and silly questions. I am not saying that this should not occur; I am just saying that it should occur on another separate list. I do a lot of trouble shooting of real architectural problems on the distro, and I like doing that because I like living on the edge; but every time we get into the beta cycles I just get tired of reading 200+ messages (90% unimportant) trying to look for the ones from cooker "regulars". I delete anything that has "install" or "beta" in the subject. Another thing I would like to see from Mandrake is a "**real** database driven web-based public bugtraking system" like bugzilla or Double Chocolate. Actually this was my first suggestion when I joined the list a year ago. I used to be a rawhide nut; they use bugzilla, and that provided a very efficient way to see exactly what has been happening with a bug, from its report to its resolution/closure. It provided a real way for contributors to contribute resolutions without duplicating efforts; but more (actually much much much more) important, it kept a record of problem-solution. Very often I have seen that we spend a lot of time identifing/troubleshooting/solving a problem with some package, and after it is solved it happens again, sometimes in the same package a couple of releases later. If Mandrake does not have anybody to install a bugzilla box I volunteer to do it. And please don't tell me you already have a bugtracking system, since that Debian email based system just does not compare to Bugzilla, plus it does not have a web interface. I think that bouncing back and forth a problem through email is just an inefficient way of defining/documenting/solving it; much less build a knowledge base. Which brings me to the other advantage of such a system, a "Knowledge Base". A FAQ or a mail archive are NOT reasonable a knowledge base of a modern vendor. Pardon my criticism, but I think that if we got a little more organized we could do so much more. -- Eugenio Diaz, BSEE/BSCE Linux Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Cooker] I wish cooker was cooker and cooker only! (really.. any sparc people out there at all?)
Eugenio Diaz [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] writes: Another thing I would like to see from Mandrake is a "**real** database driven web-based public bugtraking system" like bugzilla or Double Chocolate. [...] It provided a real way for contributors to contribute resolutions without duplicating efforts; but more (actually much much much more) important, it kept a record of problem-solution. I agree (and second) Eugenio's suggestion. It'd be nice to actually know that somebody is following up on my bug report for the Sparc build, instead of just scanning for a reply and deleting all of the inane chatter that has nothing to do with the archetecture I'm working on. And that brings up another point. How about separating out the different archetecture's to different lists, so that we DON'T have to wade through it all. It'll keep all of the problem/solutions much cleaner as well. cooker-sparc, cooker-x86, cooker-mips, cooker-ppc And if you want to cut down on the number of people joining just to find but fixes, put the darned archive link up on the website already. Then maybe people would look before they leaped? (in shah allah) ismi Leif.
Re: [Cooker] I wish cooker was cooker and cooker only! (really..anysparc people out there at all?)
Leif Sawyer wrote: Eugenio Diaz [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] writes: Another thing I would like to see from Mandrake is a "**real** database driven web-based public bugtraking system" like bugzilla or Double Chocolate. [...] It provided a real way for contributors to contribute resolutions without duplicating efforts; but more (actually much much much more) important, it kept a record of problem-solution. I agree (and second) Eugenio's suggestion. Ditto. Though not great, there used to be some form of bug tracking. It seems that since Feb/00, bug-tracking is done solely via inboxen... Definitely needs to change. It'd be nice to actually know that somebody is following up on my bug report for the Sparc build, instead of just scanning for a reply and deleting all of the inane chatter that has nothing to do with the archetecture I'm working on. Agree. And that brings up another point. How about separating out the different archetecture's to different lists, so that we DON'T have to wade through it all. It'll keep all of the problem/solutions much cleaner as well. cooker-sparc, cooker-x86, cooker-mips, cooker-ppc Yes!!! In the meanwhile, having "sparc" anywhere in the subject helps my filters. And if you want to cut down on the number of people joining just to find but fixes, put the darned archive link up on the website already. Then maybe people would look before they leaped? (in shah allah) Already requested of the new webmaster, et al... ismi Leif. Pierre
