[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Tara, Given the economy, your situation might not be that unusual. I work out of several locations in NYC- some public and some private- and I've seen more than my share of folks that remind me of RC. Due to the size of most of the locations, only regulars might have noticed somewhat odd behaviors or appearances. So, I haven't witnessed anyone mention it as a problem yet (a matter of time, it seems) I am certainly not saying it is your problem to deal with given how you have tried to handle the matter, but people lie about their employment and housing situations. Is there anyone in your space working with or for public service organizations? Perhaps they may have some local references to suggest. Is there anyone who might be looking for an intern or have a job to fill? Maybe he might express interest if he didn't feel singled out and that may get him to open up a little more about his situation if he is facing personal difficulties. In terms of safety, you may have to explore issuing keys (or getting building management to do so) for a more controlled environment; even if it slightly dampens the culture of the space. I wonder what he would say if he were asked directly why he spends so much time at the space in spite of possibly getting arrested and clearly making others around him uncomfortable? Cheers, Dawn On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey all, > > So, I thought I'd relay a story...not to freak anyone out or change > anything, but just as an experience that others can learn from. > > For about 6 months, there has been a guy who drops in regularly at > Citizen Space for free - almost too regularly at times - and would > fall asleep at the communal tables in the back. I thought, "Whatever, > no biggie, really," until I got a complaint from my landlord that, > when CS wasn't open, he would sit outside of our door or wander around > the building for hours. So, the next time I saw him I told him that he > isn't allowed to be in the building hanging around when we aren't > there. So, that was problem A. But he didn't really listen and we > would still find him sleeping outside our door. I must have told him > about 10x personally. Then he hadn't come around for a while, so I > thought that the issue was done. > > But no. One day I received an email from Eddie from The Hat Factory > asking me if Ryan Cook ever hangs out at Citizen Space and that they > had to finally ask him to leave and not come back because he was doing > the same thing - sleeping in the building - as well as bringing his > clothes and showering there. Eddie and another guy had taken Ryan to > lunch to get more information from him and didn't find much out. > According to Ryan, he had a job and a place to live. So they said he > would have to limit the times he dropped in and no more showering or > sleeping there. But he continued, so they finally threatened him with > calling the police if he returned. > > After that point, he stepped up his presence at CS again, this time he > had no laptop with him and people in the space (renters and other > dropins) were starting to complain about his presence. He would come > in, eat stuff from the cupboards, make coffee and leave a mess, then > sleep at the table. So, I told him he couldn't come back to CS without > his laptop - "This isn't a shelter, it's a workspace." I said. But a > couple of nights later, I came into the office to check on a package > at around 10:00 pm and, after unlocking the security door, I found him > behind it, hanging out. Of course, this freaked me out a bit, but I > firmly told him he wasn't allowed to be there, to leave and not come > back until he gets a computer. > > A couple days later, Jonathan, one of the desk renters, found him, > again, behind the locked security door and observed a pile of luggage > and clothes. This was early in the morning. He instantly left and > called me, telling me he didn't want to have to deal with this any > longer. I was very angry at that point and went directly over there, > but he was gone. Later that day, I caught him in the building again > and told him to take his clothes and leave and that I would call the > police if he returned. That was last Friday. > > On Monday, I wasn't at the space, but Arne told me he came in to > gather 'some of his things that he had left' at the space. CS is NOT a > storage locker. Arne supervised him and walked him out of the > building. I thought that was the end of it. But no again. > > Today, I stopped by CS to check on a package and, lo and behold, he > was there again. I totally blew up and told him I was going to call > the police and locked myself in the office. The police came by and he > was STILL hanging in the building. The officer talked to him, then > came and talked with me. I told him the story and the officer told me > he would tell Ryan that he would be charged next time he came into the > building. > > I hope this is the end of it.
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Thanks Dawn, When asked these questions (and we've asked many to fine out more), he doesn't speak up. He just stares defiantly. I think he may be autistic? T On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Dawn Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tara, > > Given the economy, your situation might not be that unusual. I work out of > several locations in NYC- some public and some private- and I've seen more > than my share of folks that remind me of RC. Due to the size of most of the > locations, only regulars might have noticed somewhat odd behaviors or > appearances. So, I haven't witnessed anyone mention it as a problem yet (a > matter of time, it seems) > > I am certainly not saying it is your problem to deal with given how you have > tried to handle the matter, but people lie about their employment and > housing situations. Is there anyone in your space working with or for public > service organizations? Perhaps they may have some local references to > suggest. Is there anyone who might be looking for an intern or have a job to > fill? Maybe he might express interest if he didn't feel singled out and that > may get him to open up a little more about his situation if he is facing > personal difficulties. > > In terms of safety, you may have to explore issuing keys (or getting > building management to do so) for a more controlled environment; even if it > slightly dampens the culture of the space. > > I wonder what he would say if he were asked directly why he spends so much > time at the space in spite of possibly getting arrested and clearly making > others around him uncomfortable? > > Cheers, > > Dawn > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Hey all, >> >> So, I thought I'd relay a story...not to freak anyone out or change >> anything, but just as an experience that others can learn from. >> >> For about 6 months, there has been a guy who drops in regularly at >> Citizen Space for free - almost too regularly at times - and would >> fall asleep at the communal tables in the back. I thought, "Whatever, >> no biggie, really," until I got a complaint from my landlord that, >> when CS wasn't open, he would sit outside of our door or wander around >> the building for hours. So, the next time I saw him I told him that he >> isn't allowed to be in the building hanging around when we aren't >> there. So, that was problem A. But he didn't really listen and we >> would still find him sleeping outside our door. I must have told him >> about 10x personally. Then he hadn't come around for a while, so I >> thought that the issue was done. >> >> But no. One day I received an email from Eddie from The Hat Factory >> asking me if Ryan Cook ever hangs out at Citizen Space and that they >> had to finally ask him to leave and not come back because he was doing >> the same thing - sleeping in the building - as well as bringing his >> clothes and showering there. Eddie and another guy had taken Ryan to >> lunch to get more information from him and didn't find much out. >> According to Ryan, he had a job and a place to live. So they said he >> would have to limit the times he dropped in and no more showering or >> sleeping there. But he continued, so they finally threatened him with >> calling the police if he returned. >> >> After that point, he stepped up his presence at CS again, this time he >> had no laptop with him and people in the space (renters and other >> dropins) were starting to complain about his presence. He would come >> in, eat stuff from the cupboards, make coffee and leave a mess, then >> sleep at the table. So, I told him he couldn't come back to CS without >> his laptop - "This isn't a shelter, it's a workspace." I said. But a >> couple of nights later, I came into the office to check on a package >> at around 10:00 pm and, after unlocking the security door, I found him >> behind it, hanging out. Of course, this freaked me out a bit, but I >> firmly told him he wasn't allowed to be there, to leave and not come >> back until he gets a computer. >> >> A couple days later, Jonathan, one of the desk renters, found him, >> again, behind the locked security door and observed a pile of luggage >> and clothes. This was early in the morning. He instantly left and >> called me, telling me he didn't want to have to deal with this any >> longer. I was very angry at that point and went directly over there, >> but he was gone. Later that day, I caught him in the building again >> and told him to take his clothes and leave and that I would call the >> police if he returned. That was last Friday. >> >> On Monday, I wasn't at the space, but Arne told me he came in to >> gather 'some of his things that he had left' at the space. CS is NOT a >> storage locker. Arne supervised him and walked him out of the >> building. I thought that was the end of it. But no again. >> >> Today, I stopped by CS to check on a package and, lo and behold, he >> was there again. I totally blew up and told him I was
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Folks, being in SF, I've seen this problem over and over in the past 5 years at my space. As a human being, you have to balance your desire to be compassionate with the need to run a business. Folks who are homeless and/or jobless or suffering from substance abuse, will frequently gravitate to an area of a city that supports or tolerates the way they are living/surviving/getting by. There are any number of root causes behind homelessness (I'm no expert) and it isn't something that fits into our rational view of the world. Once you allow someone access to a restroom or a place to sleep, they'll take it. It supports and enables them to continue their illness. A no-sleep policy in the business is good for business. Vegas does it. You probably should consider it. Zero-tolerance is really the only way. It's not a motel. Bathroom access is a dual-edged sword. Once you allow it, and word is out you have a public restroom, you invite some social problems. I've had a customer take a shower, without permission, in my bathroom at our site, and it only happened once, and I had to bar access to this customer. I felt incredibly torn about it, because at least this guy experienced a moment of dignity in an otherwise harsh city, but I'm not running a motel and wasn't paid for the time or mess this guy created. Restrict access to the restrooms with key, buzzer, or some other system, and you'll reduce the desire for some of the more troublesome folks stopping by. For the door sleeping, the only thing you can do is put a gate across the door at night. They may still sleep in front, but what I've seen is the best places to sleep are under the shelter of a doorway entry, not under the sky. Once you've removed the enabling features of your site, this person will move on. And if you desire to understand the root causes of the homeless problem a bit more, there are a lot of organizations in each city which have volunteer opportunities that may shed some more light on this urban issue that cities like San Francisco seem to struggle with. - David On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks Dawn, > > When asked these questions (and we've asked many to fine out more), he > doesn't speak up. He just stares defiantly. I think he may be > autistic? > > T > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Dawn Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Tara, >> >> Given the economy, your situation might not be that unusual. I work out of >> several locations in NYC- some public and some private- and I've seen more >> than my share of folks that remind me of RC. Due to the size of most of the >> locations, only regulars might have noticed somewhat odd behaviors or >> appearances. So, I haven't witnessed anyone mention it as a problem yet (a >> matter of time, it seems) >> >> I am certainly not saying it is your problem to deal with given how you have >> tried to handle the matter, but people lie about their employment and >> housing situations. Is there anyone in your space working with or for public >> service organizations? Perhaps they may have some local references to >> suggest. Is there anyone who might be looking for an intern or have a job to >> fill? Maybe he might express interest if he didn't feel singled out and that >> may get him to open up a little more about his situation if he is facing >> personal difficulties. >> >> In terms of safety, you may have to explore issuing keys (or getting >> building management to do so) for a more controlled environment; even if it >> slightly dampens the culture of the space. >> >> I wonder what he would say if he were asked directly why he spends so much >> time at the space in spite of possibly getting arrested and clearly making >> others around him uncomfortable? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Dawn >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> So, I thought I'd relay a story...not to freak anyone out or change >>> anything, but just as an experience that others can learn from. >>> >>> For about 6 months, there has been a guy who drops in regularly at >>> Citizen Space for free - almost too regularly at times - and would >>> fall asleep at the communal tables in the back. I thought, "Whatever, >>> no biggie, really," until I got a complaint from my landlord that, >>> when CS wasn't open, he would sit outside of our door or wander around >>> the building for hours. So, the next time I saw him I told him that he >>> isn't allowed to be in the building hanging around when we aren't >>> there. So, that was problem A. But he didn't really listen and we >>> would still find him sleeping outside our door. I must have told him >>> about 10x personally. Then he hadn't come around for a while, so I >>> thought that the issue was done. >>> >>> But no. One day I received an email from Eddie from The Hat Factory >>> asking me if Ryan Cook ever hangs out at Citizen Space and that they >>> had to finally ask him to
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Tara, I actually meant to call you before I left town 2 weeks ago. I had just spoken with Eddie, and lo and behold Ryan was at the space that day. Evidently, he'd been storing stuff (bags of clothes) at the Hat Factory and other residents caught him hanging out in the laundry room at night. I discussed the situation with my wife (former case manager and drop-in center manager) and she said we should be firm with him and possibly provide a list of drop-in centers and shelters. I'm so sorry it escalated so much over the last 10 days, but I'm glad the police are now informed of the situation. He definitely seems to be, well, special... Not sure if it's autism or some other retardation, but I have had a hard time communicating with him, too. Perhaps we should ask the police if he has a record. We had a neighbor that started stalking us (long story cut very short) and she had a mental break one day. When the police arrived, her doctor arrived with them and informed us that this was not the first time. If Ryan has a record, or a hospital history, then perhaps we'd see some action there. Not sure. Some necessary steps... I think David is onto something with the "No Sleep" policy. It's an office, a place of business, and we have the right to ask anyone to leave. Also, we should probably figure out how he's getting behind the security door. One thing I discussed with Johnathan is that the last person out of the office needs to do a sweep of the floor -- our bathroom, the other (unlocked) bathroom, the hallway, etc. and MAKE SURE that security door is locked. See you soon. Glad you reached out to the list, and hope you don't have to deal with this alone. I should be in tomorrow -- perhaps whoever is around the office can powwow a bit. Hillary > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Thanks Dawn, >> >> When asked these questions (and we've asked many to fine out more), he >> doesn't speak up. He just stares defiantly. I think he may be >> autistic? >> >> T >> >> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Dawn Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Tara, >>> >>> Given the economy, your situation might not be that unusual. I work out of >>> several locations in NYC- some public and some private- and I've seen more >>> than my share of folks that remind me of RC. Due to the size of most of the >>> locations, only regulars might have noticed somewhat odd behaviors or >>> appearances. So, I haven't witnessed anyone mention it as a problem yet (a >>> matter of time, it seems) >>> >>> I am certainly not saying it is your problem to deal with given how you have >>> tried to handle the matter, but people lie about their employment and >>> housing situations. Is there anyone in your space working with or for public >>> service organizations? Perhaps they may have some local references to >>> suggest. Is there anyone who might be looking for an intern or have a job to >>> fill? Maybe he might express interest if he didn't feel singled out and that >>> may get him to open up a little more about his situation if he is facing >>> personal difficulties. >>> >>> In terms of safety, you may have to explore issuing keys (or getting >>> building management to do so) for a more controlled environment; even if it >>> slightly dampens the culture of the space. >>> >>> I wonder what he would say if he were asked directly why he spends so much >>> time at the space in spite of possibly getting arrested and clearly making >>> others around him uncomfortable? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Dawn >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey all, So, I thought I'd relay a story...not to freak anyone out or change anything, but just as an experience that others can learn from. For about 6 months, there has been a guy who drops in regularly at Citizen Space for free - almost too regularly at times - and would fall asleep at the communal tables in the back. I thought, "Whatever, no biggie, really," until I got a complaint from my landlord that, when CS wasn't open, he would sit outside of our door or wander around the building for hours. So, the next time I saw him I told him that he isn't allowed to be in the building hanging around when we aren't there. So, that was problem A. But he didn't really listen and we would still find him sleeping outside our door. I must have told him about 10x personally. Then he hadn't come around for a while, so I thought that the issue was done. But no. One day I received an email from Eddie from The Hat Factory asking me if Ryan Cook ever hangs out at Citizen Space and that they had to finally ask him to leave and not come back because he was doing the same thing - sleeping in the building - as well as bringing his clothes and showering there. Eddie and another guy had taken Ryan to lunch to get more information from
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Hmmm... That's a tough one and I am probably pointing out the obvious (forgive me). Here's a few links that might be useful: I would check in with the community affairs division of the San Francisco Police Department, because they are more likely to be better equipped to deal with him if another public complaint involves them the police than regular officers. That's not a slight; just something I've learned from my friends in law enforcement that are trained in counseling. http://www.sfgov.org/site/police_index.asp?id=21707 [EMAIL PROTECTED] The United Way in your area may also be able to help out. A friend and long time public servant suggested it might be a better way to go. http://uwba.org/211/contact.php I didn't even know about 211 (I think we have everything routed through 311), which seems like it would come in handy for more specific direction. Since UW operates as a bit of a filter to other organizations, they should be in a position to provide relevant information specific to your situation. Also, connect with the SF Department of Health: http://www.sfdph.org/dph/default.asp I wouldn't be shy about contacting their affiliated foundation because you may be able to avoid red tape in gaining assistance even if your situation is not their focus: http://sfpublichealthfoundation.org/ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T: (415) 956-0768 Fax: (951) 769-2840 SF Public Health Foundation 1450 Sutter Street, #101 San Francisco, CA 94104 Of course, you need to keep yourself from getting too frustrated. I am sure everyone supports you and hopes this can get resolved in a way that benefits you, your fellow Co-workers and RC. Keep me posted. Cheers, d [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks Dawn, > > When asked these questions (and we've asked many to fine out more), he > doesn't speak up. He just stares defiantly. I think he may be > autistic? > > T > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Dawn Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Tara, > > > > Given the economy, your situation might not be that unusual. I work out > of > > several locations in NYC- some public and some private- and I've seen > more > > than my share of folks that remind me of RC. Due to the size of most of > the > > locations, only regulars might have noticed somewhat odd behaviors or > > appearances. So, I haven't witnessed anyone mention it as a problem yet > (a > > matter of time, it seems) > > > > I am certainly not saying it is your problem to deal with given how you > have > > tried to handle the matter, but people lie about their employment and > > housing situations. Is there anyone in your space working with or for > public > > service organizations? Perhaps they may have some local references to > > suggest. Is there anyone who might be looking for an intern or have a job > to > > fill? Maybe he might express interest if he didn't feel singled out and > that > > may get him to open up a little more about his situation if he is facing > > personal difficulties. > > > > In terms of safety, you may have to explore issuing keys (or getting > > building management to do so) for a more controlled environment; even if > it > > slightly dampens the culture of the space. > > > > I wonder what he would say if he were asked directly why he spends so > much > > time at the space in spite of possibly getting arrested and clearly > making > > others around him uncomfortable? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> Hey all, > >> > >> So, I thought I'd relay a story...not to freak anyone out or change > >> anything, but just as an experience that others can learn from. > >> > >> For about 6 months, there has been a guy who drops in regularly at > >> Citizen Space for free - almost too regularly at times - and would > >> fall asleep at the communal tables in the back. I thought, "Whatever, > >> no biggie, really," until I got a complaint from my landlord that, > >> when CS wasn't open, he would sit outside of our door or wander around > >> the building for hours. So, the next time I saw him I told him that he > >> isn't allowed to be in the building hanging around when we aren't > >> there. So, that was problem A. But he didn't really listen and we > >> would still find him sleeping outside our door. I must have told him > >> about 10x personally. Then he hadn't come around for a while, so I > >> thought that the issue was done. > >> > >> But no. One day I received an email from Eddie from The Hat Factory > >> asking me if Ryan Cook ever hangs out at Citizen Space and that they > >> had to finally ask him to leave and not come back because he was doing > >> the same thing - sleeping in the building - as well as bringing his > >> clothes and showering there. Eddie and another guy had taken Ryan to > >> lunch to
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Tara, This is something we almost expect to see once we open our space in downtown Reno. We have a river that runs through downtown and there are always people looking for places to sleep and loiter 24/7. We too will be offering free drop-in space and expect to have our fair share of curious loiterers. It can be a very frightening situation to deal with, especially when finding someone unexpectedly at night, but I think you handled it well. If I were in your shoes, I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt for a few visits but once the visits start to infringe on the other's comfort, I would take action. It is sad to have to take action against individuals who are less fortunate than ourselves but as you mentioned, Citizen Space and similar spaces are workspaces, not shelters. Colin On Oct 1, 3:02 pm, "Tara Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks Dawn, > > When asked these questions (and we've asked many to fine out more), he > doesn't speak up. He just stares defiantly. I think he may be > autistic? > > T > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Dawn Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Tara, > > > Given the economy, your situation might not be that unusual. I work out of > > several locations in NYC- some public and some private- and I've seen more > > than my share of folks that remind me of RC. Due to the size of most of the > > locations, only regulars might have noticed somewhat odd behaviors or > > appearances. So, I haven't witnessed anyone mention it as a problem yet (a > > matter of time, it seems) > > > I am certainly not saying it is your problem to deal with given how you have > > tried to handle the matter, but people lie about their employment and > > housing situations. Is there anyone in your space working with or for public > > service organizations? Perhaps they may have some local references to > > suggest. Is there anyone who might be looking for an intern or have a job to > > fill? Maybe he might express interest if he didn't feel singled out and that > > may get him to open up a little more about his situation if he is facing > > personal difficulties. > > > In terms of safety, you may have to explore issuing keys (or getting > > building management to do so) for a more controlled environment; even if it > > slightly dampens the culture of the space. > > > I wonder what he would say if he were asked directly why he spends so much > > time at the space in spite of possibly getting arrested and clearly making > > others around him uncomfortable? > > > Cheers, > > > Dawn > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Hey all, > > >> So, I thought I'd relay a story...not to freak anyone out or change > >> anything, but just as an experience that others can learn from. > > >> For about 6 months, there has been a guy who drops in regularly at > >> Citizen Space for free - almost too regularly at times - and would > >> fall asleep at the communal tables in the back. I thought, "Whatever, > >> no biggie, really," until I got a complaint from my landlord that, > >> when CS wasn't open, he would sit outside of our door or wander around > >> the building for hours. So, the next time I saw him I told him that he > >> isn't allowed to be in the building hanging around when we aren't > >> there. So, that was problem A. But he didn't really listen and we > >> would still find him sleeping outside our door. I must have told him > >> about 10x personally. Then he hadn't come around for a while, so I > >> thought that the issue was done. > > >> But no. One day I received an email from Eddie from The Hat Factory > >> asking me if Ryan Cook ever hangs out at Citizen Space and that they > >> had to finally ask him to leave and not come back because he was doing > >> the same thing - sleeping in the building - as well as bringing his > >> clothes and showering there. Eddie and another guy had taken Ryan to > >> lunch to get more information from him and didn't find much out. > >> According to Ryan, he had a job and a place to live. So they said he > >> would have to limit the times he dropped in and no more showering or > >> sleeping there. But he continued, so they finally threatened him with > >> calling the police if he returned. > > >> After that point, he stepped up his presence at CS again, this time he > >> had no laptop with him and people in the space (renters and other > >> dropins) were starting to complain about his presence. He would come > >> in, eat stuff from the cupboards, make coffee and leave a mess, then > >> sleep at the table. So, I told him he couldn't come back to CS without > >> his laptop - "This isn't a shelter, it's a workspace." I said. But a > >> couple of nights later, I came into the office to check on a package > >> at around 10:00 pm and, after unlocking the security door, I found him > >> behind it, hanging out. Of course, this freaked me out a bit, but I > >> firmly told him he wasn't allowed to be there, to leave and n
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Wow, freaky! I wish I had some sage wisdom for you, Tara. I think keeping the police informed is the safest solution for you and your coworkers. It is unfortunate that this guy has no other place to go and you have been very generous, but you are right that you are not running a shelter. All the best, Felicity Cubes&Crayons www.cubesandcrayons.com cubes.typepad.com/blog On Oct 1, 2:31 pm, "Tara Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey all, > > So, I thought I'd relay a story...not to freak anyone out or change > anything, but just as an experience that others can learn from. > > For about 6 months, there has been a guy who drops in regularly at > Citizen Space for free - almost too regularly at times - and would > fall asleep at the communal tables in the back. I thought, "Whatever, > no biggie, really," until I got a complaint from my landlord that, > when CS wasn't open, he would sit outside of our door or wander around > the building for hours. So, the next time I saw him I told him that he > isn't allowed to be in the building hanging around when we aren't > there. So, that was problem A. But he didn't really listen and we > would still find him sleeping outside our door. I must have told him > about 10x personally. Then he hadn't come around for a while, so I > thought that the issue was done. > > But no. One day I received an email from Eddie from The Hat Factory > asking me if Ryan Cook ever hangs out at Citizen Space and that they > had to finally ask him to leave and not come back because he was doing > the same thing - sleeping in the building - as well as bringing his > clothes and showering there. Eddie and another guy had taken Ryan to > lunch to get more information from him and didn't find much out. > According to Ryan, he had a job and a place to live. So they said he > would have to limit the times he dropped in and no more showering or > sleeping there. But he continued, so they finally threatened him with > calling the police if he returned. > > After that point, he stepped up his presence at CS again, this time he > had no laptop with him and people in the space (renters and other > dropins) were starting to complain about his presence. He would come > in, eat stuff from the cupboards, make coffee and leave a mess, then > sleep at the table. So, I told him he couldn't come back to CS without > his laptop - "This isn't a shelter, it's a workspace." I said. But a > couple of nights later, I came into the office to check on a package > at around 10:00 pm and, after unlocking the security door, I found him > behind it, hanging out. Of course, this freaked me out a bit, but I > firmly told him he wasn't allowed to be there, to leave and not come > back until he gets a computer. > > A couple days later, Jonathan, one of the desk renters, found him, > again, behind the locked security door and observed a pile of luggage > and clothes. This was early in the morning. He instantly left and > called me, telling me he didn't want to have to deal with this any > longer. I was very angry at that point and went directly over there, > but he was gone. Later that day, I caught him in the building again > and told him to take his clothes and leave and that I would call the > police if he returned. That was last Friday. > > On Monday, I wasn't at the space, but Arne told me he came in to > gather 'some of his things that he had left' at the space. CS is NOT a > storage locker. Arne supervised him and walked him out of the > building. I thought that was the end of it. But no again. > > Today, I stopped by CS to check on a package and, lo and behold, he > was there again. I totally blew up and told him I was going to call > the police and locked myself in the office. The police came by and he > was STILL hanging in the building. The officer talked to him, then > came and talked with me. I told him the story and the officer told me > he would tell Ryan that he would be charged next time he came into the > building. > > I hope this is the end of it. It's driving me nuts. I don't know if > he's a physical threat - he hasn't made any threats or moves. However, > his continued presence feels like a fear tactic and he makes everyone > at CS extremely uneasy...even the big guys. > > I'm looking for advice here...but also to open up a discussion on > whether others have shared this problem and, if so, how have you dealt > with it? > > Tara > > -- > -- > tara 'missrogue' hunt > > Book: The Whuffie Factor: Using the Power of Social Networks to Build > Your Business > (http://www.amazon.com/Whuffie-Factor-Capital-Winning-Communities/dp/0...) > Company: Citizen Agency (http://www.citizenagency.com) > Blog: HorsePigCow: Marketing Uncommon (http://www.horsepigcow.com) > Twitter:http://www.twitter.com/missrogue > phone: 415-694-1951 > fax: 415-727-5335 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. To post to this gr
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Here are my two suggestions: 1. Build a strong relationship with the SFPD, and let them know that their officers are free to complete paperwork at your site. 2. Call the police. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if you don't want a sleeper in your workplace, you will need to document and report. Police can and will arrest individuals for becoming a public nuisance and/or discivil conduct. Take it from someone who has had a student arrested for talking too much! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
>> let them know that their officers are free to complete paperwork at your site. AWESOME idea. -Mike Schinkel President; NewClarity LLC Organizer: Atlanta Web Entrepreneurs http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeschinkel http://mikeschinkel.com http://atlanta-web.org -Original Message- From: coworking@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JDean Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 2:06 PM To: Coworking Subject: [Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space Here are my two suggestions: 1. Build a strong relationship with the SFPD, and let them know that their officers are free to complete paperwork at your site. 2. Call the police. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if you don't want a sleeper in your workplace, you will need to document and report. Police can and will arrest individuals for becoming a public nuisance and/or discivil conduct. Take it from someone who has had a student arrested for talking too much! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Tara, We at PariSoMa had a small coworker party about a month ago. I knew pretty much every one there, except there was one tall, balding guy kind of lurking around that no one knew. He introduced himself as Ryan and said he was interested in renting a desk from us. I asked him how he knew about the very small gathering and he just kind of mumbled something incomprehensible about a website. For the next hour and a half, he hung around our office and kind of creeped about and made everyone uncomfortable. When the party was over, a handful of us went to dinner and of course someone invited Ryan. Throughout dinner, his erratic behavior really weirded us out. He got up about 3 or 4 times to use the bathroom announcing loudly "I GOTTA PEE", disappearing for 10 minutes at a time. He knocked over his glass of water and then pushed the water onto the floor. After I'd finished my meal there were still some scraps left (mostly chicken bones and a pile of greasy rice) and he asked my boyfriend if I was going to finish my plate. He then ate the tiny bits of chicken left on the bones and scarfed all the rice. We all pretty much sat there WTFing the whole time. The next day, I told everyone in the office that if a guy named Ryan came by looking to rent a space, to politely tell him no. I felt bad because he seemed kind of lonely and lost, but he obviously has problems and made everyone really uncomfortable. He must be hitting up all the coworking spaces in SF. I wonder if anyone else has had any experiences with him. Anyway, wow. I will definitely be on the lookout. Melanie Berlin PariSoMa On Oct 1, 2:31 pm, "Tara Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey all, > > So, I thought I'd relay a story...not to freak anyone out or change > anything, but just as an experience that others can learn from. > > For about 6 months, there has been a guy who drops in regularly at > Citizen Space for free - almost too regularly at times - and would > fall asleep at the communal tables in the back. I thought, "Whatever, > no biggie, really," until I got a complaint from my landlord that, > when CS wasn't open, he would sit outside of our door or wander around > the building for hours. So, the next time I saw him I told him that he > isn't allowed to be in the building hanging around when we aren't > there. So, that was problem A. But he didn't really listen and we > would still find him sleeping outside our door. I must have told him > about 10x personally. Then he hadn't come around for a while, so I > thought that the issue was done. > > But no. One day I received an email from Eddie from The Hat Factory > asking me if Ryan Cook ever hangs out at Citizen Space and that they > had to finally ask him to leave and not come back because he was doing > the same thing - sleeping in the building - as well as bringing his > clothes and showering there. Eddie and another guy had taken Ryan to > lunch to get more information from him and didn't find much out. > According to Ryan, he had a job and a place to live. So they said he > would have to limit the times he dropped in and no more showering or > sleeping there. But he continued, so they finally threatened him with > calling the police if he returned. > > After that point, he stepped up his presence at CS again, this time he > had no laptop with him and people in the space (renters and other > dropins) were starting to complain about his presence. He would come > in, eat stuff from the cupboards, make coffee and leave a mess, then > sleep at the table. So, I told him he couldn't come back to CS without > his laptop - "This isn't a shelter, it's a workspace." I said. But a > couple of nights later, I came into the office to check on a package > at around 10:00 pm and, after unlocking the security door, I found him > behind it, hanging out. Of course, this freaked me out a bit, but I > firmly told him he wasn't allowed to be there, to leave and not come > back until he gets a computer. > > A couple days later, Jonathan, one of the desk renters, found him, > again, behind the locked security door and observed a pile of luggage > and clothes. This was early in the morning. He instantly left and > called me, telling me he didn't want to have to deal with this any > longer. I was very angry at that point and went directly over there, > but he was gone. Later that day, I caught him in the building again > and told him to take his clothes and leave and that I would call the > police if he returned. That was last Friday. > > On Monday, I wasn't at the space, but Arne told me he came in to > gather 'some of his things that he had left' at the space. CS is NOT a > storage locker. Arne supervised him and walked him out of the > building. I thought that was the end of it. But no again. > > Today, I stopped by CS to check on a package and, lo and behold, he > was there again. I totally blew up and told him I was going to call > the police and locked myself in the office. The police came by and he > wa
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Don't waste your time with the SFPD (or any pd). They love messing with the homeless but this is a temporary fix and is just part of the endless cycle. Your only hope is cutting off the enabling factors, and only resort to the sfpd if someone becomes a danger. As someone mentioned, there are agencies that can help, and sometimes if you know the right people in city hall, you can get some special assistance. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: JDean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:05:41 To: Coworking Subject: [Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space Here are my two suggestions: 1. Build a strong relationship with the SFPD, and let them know that their officers are free to complete paperwork at your site. 2. Call the police. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if you don't want a sleeper in your workplace, you will need to document and report. Police can and will arrest individuals for becoming a public nuisance and/or discivil conduct. Take it from someone who has had a student arrested for talking too much! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Tara thanks so much for posting about this. I think we all have a lot to gain by sharing not only our successes but our stumbling blocks with one another. This is a super tough one, but it sounds as if you guys are doing the absolute best you can to remedy the situation in a way that keeps your space safe and hopefully directs this guy to someone who can help him. Know that this story and the conversations thereafter are incredibly helpful to voice, and help the rest of us feel more confident in addressing similar situations if they ever arise in the future (we'll certainly hope they don't...). Take good care of yourself and best of luck. Susan On Oct 1, 2:31 pm, "Tara Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey all, > > So, I thought I'd relay a story...not to freak anyone out or change > anything, but just as an experience that others can learn from. > > For about 6 months, there has been a guy who drops in regularly at > Citizen Space for free - almost too regularly at times - and would > fall asleep at the communal tables in the back. I thought, "Whatever, > no biggie, really," until I got a complaint from my landlord that, > when CS wasn't open, he would sit outside of our door or wander around > the building for hours. So, the next time I saw him I told him that he > isn't allowed to be in the building hanging around when we aren't > there. So, that was problem A. But he didn't really listen and we > would still find him sleeping outside our door. I must have told him > about 10x personally. Then he hadn't come around for a while, so I > thought that the issue was done. > > But no. One day I received an email from Eddie from The Hat Factory > asking me if Ryan Cook ever hangs out at Citizen Space and that they > had to finally ask him to leave and not come back because he was doing > the same thing - sleeping in the building - as well as bringing his > clothes and showering there. Eddie and another guy had taken Ryan to > lunch to get more information from him and didn't find much out. > According to Ryan, he had a job and a place to live. So they said he > would have to limit the times he dropped in and no more showering or > sleeping there. But he continued, so they finally threatened him with > calling the police if he returned. > > After that point, he stepped up his presence at CS again, this time he > had no laptop with him and people in the space (renters and other > dropins) were starting to complain about his presence. He would come > in, eat stuff from the cupboards, make coffee and leave a mess, then > sleep at the table. So, I told him he couldn't come back to CS without > his laptop - "This isn't a shelter, it's a workspace." I said. But a > couple of nights later, I came into the office to check on a package > at around 10:00 pm and, after unlocking the security door, I found him > behind it, hanging out. Of course, this freaked me out a bit, but I > firmly told him he wasn't allowed to be there, to leave and not come > back until he gets a computer. > > A couple days later, Jonathan, one of the desk renters, found him, > again, behind the locked security door and observed a pile of luggage > and clothes. This was early in the morning. He instantly left and > called me, telling me he didn't want to have to deal with this any > longer. I was very angry at that point and went directly over there, > but he was gone. Later that day, I caught him in the building again > and told him to take his clothes and leave and that I would call the > police if he returned. That was last Friday. > > On Monday, I wasn't at the space, but Arne told me he came in to > gather 'some of his things that he had left' at the space. CS is NOT a > storage locker. Arne supervised him and walked him out of the > building. I thought that was the end of it. But no again. > > Today, I stopped by CS to check on a package and, lo and behold, he > was there again. I totally blew up and told him I was going to call > the police and locked myself in the office. The police came by and he > was STILL hanging in the building. The officer talked to him, then > came and talked with me. I told him the story and the officer told me > he would tell Ryan that he would be charged next time he came into the > building. > > I hope this is the end of it. It's driving me nuts. I don't know if > he's a physical threat - he hasn't made any threats or moves. However, > his continued presence feels like a fear tactic and he makes everyone > at CS extremely uneasy...even the big guys. > > I'm looking for advice here...but also to open up a discussion on > whether others have shared this problem and, if so, how have you dealt > with it? > > Tara > > -- > -- > tara 'missrogue' hunt > > Book: The Whuffie Factor: Using the Power of Social Networks to Build > Your Business > (http://www.amazon.com/Whuffie-Factor-Capital-Winning-Communities/dp/0...) > Company: Citizen Agency (http://www.citizenagency.com) > Blog: HorsePigCow: Marketing Uncommon
[Coworking] Re: Drama at Citizen Space
Hello, My name is Allyson, and I'm new here, but I thought I'd comment since I used to manage a large public housing development in the state of Rhode Island. It sounds as though this person may have some mental disability issues. Lots of times the police know to bring a person like this to a local hospital to be evaluated for psychiatric care, but sometimes they can't be bothered (lots of paperwork) so they just "shoo" them away. It might be helpful to call the local shelter and find out if there is a state agency you can contact for assistance - for example, a Department of Human Services type agency that might be able to send a social worker out to talk to him. These people are trained to deal with these illnesses, and will be able to advise you how to dissuade him from returning AND get him some much needed assistance (including public housing). good luck, Allyson On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 10:35 AM, felicity at cubes < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Wow, freaky! I wish I had some sage wisdom for you, Tara. I > think keeping the police informed is the safest solution for > you and your coworkers. It is unfortunate that this guy has no other > place to go and you have been very generous, but you are > right that you are not running a shelter. > > All the best, > Felicity > > Cubes&Crayons > www.cubesandcrayons.com > cubes.typepad.com/blog > > On Oct 1, 2:31 pm, "Tara Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > So, I thought I'd relay a story...not to freak anyone out or change > > anything, but just as an experience that others can learn from. > > > > For about 6 months, there has been a guy who drops in regularly at > > Citizen Space for free - almost too regularly at times - and would > > fall asleep at the communal tables in the back. I thought, "Whatever, > > no biggie, really," until I got a complaint from my landlord that, > > when CS wasn't open, he would sit outside of our door or wander around > > the building for hours. So, the next time I saw him I told him that he > > isn't allowed to be in the building hanging around when we aren't > > there. So, that was problem A. But he didn't really listen and we > > would still find him sleeping outside our door. I must have told him > > about 10x personally. Then he hadn't come around for a while, so I > > thought that the issue was done. > > > > But no. One day I received an email from Eddie from The Hat Factory > > asking me if Ryan Cook ever hangs out at Citizen Space and that they > > had to finally ask him to leave and not come back because he was doing > > the same thing - sleeping in the building - as well as bringing his > > clothes and showering there. Eddie and another guy had taken Ryan to > > lunch to get more information from him and didn't find much out. > > According to Ryan, he had a job and a place to live. So they said he > > would have to limit the times he dropped in and no more showering or > > sleeping there. But he continued, so they finally threatened him with > > calling the police if he returned. > > > > After that point, he stepped up his presence at CS again, this time he > > had no laptop with him and people in the space (renters and other > > dropins) were starting to complain about his presence. He would come > > in, eat stuff from the cupboards, make coffee and leave a mess, then > > sleep at the table. So, I told him he couldn't come back to CS without > > his laptop - "This isn't a shelter, it's a workspace." I said. But a > > couple of nights later, I came into the office to check on a package > > at around 10:00 pm and, after unlocking the security door, I found him > > behind it, hanging out. Of course, this freaked me out a bit, but I > > firmly told him he wasn't allowed to be there, to leave and not come > > back until he gets a computer. > > > > A couple days later, Jonathan, one of the desk renters, found him, > > again, behind the locked security door and observed a pile of luggage > > and clothes. This was early in the morning. He instantly left and > > called me, telling me he didn't want to have to deal with this any > > longer. I was very angry at that point and went directly over there, > > but he was gone. Later that day, I caught him in the building again > > and told him to take his clothes and leave and that I would call the > > police if he returned. That was last Friday. > > > > On Monday, I wasn't at the space, but Arne told me he came in to > > gather 'some of his things that he had left' at the space. CS is NOT a > > storage locker. Arne supervised him and walked him out of the > > building. I thought that was the end of it. But no again. > > > > Today, I stopped by CS to check on a package and, lo and behold, he > > was there again. I totally blew up and told him I was going to call > > the police and locked myself in the office. The police came by and he > > was STILL hanging in the building. The officer talked to him, then > > came and talked with me. I told him the story and th
