Re: [CTRL] United States.... A Communist Nation?

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

I agree that there are serious problems with the American system.  I
agree.. the entire 'rich get richer / poor get poorer' problem that our
nation has fallen into is a horrible state of affairs, as are the facts
that the President can now put us into a war whenever he pleases by
simply calling it a 'police action', and that the separation of the
three branches of government is so twisted currently.  I simply feel
that the designation of 'Communism' or 'Socialism' for these problems is
a misnomer.  'Fascism' might be a little closer to home, but true
Fascism usually has a huge upswing of Nationalism accompanying it.
Calling our system 'Socialist' or 'Communist' because of an imbalance of
political power is as mistaken as calling the departed U.S.S.R.
'Capitalist' because there were definitely people who made more than
others for an equal amount of work.  Socialism and Communism, in their
idealized forms, do not include that large disparity of wealth.  The
U.S.S.R. did not have a 'true' (read: idealized) form of Communism and
more than the U.S.A. has a 'true' form of Democracy.  Both are very
flawed versions of what they supposedly attempt.  But just because an
animal has fleas does not necessarily make it a dog.  Semantics are
important here.  The words 'Socialism' or 'Communism' in daily usage
have meanings that carry a certain emotional baggage that, while
convincing in an argument, may not be accurate.  We aren't communists or
socialists, just deeply screwed up believers in democracy who have let
things go wrong.

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Monday, January 04, 1999 3:37 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] United States A Communist Nation?

 Jim,
 I realise this is a little "out-there" but the
Communist/Socialist
influence is and has been imposed on us for many years.  From
what I have
found it has grown a hell of a lot since WWII and isn't stopping
or holding
back at all.  Everything we say or do is regulated by laws
passed by our
"Congress" as well as our "Presidents."  Presidents aren't
supposed to make
laws.  We have no separation between the Legislative, Judicial,
and Executive
branches of government.  The "checks and balances" have all but
disappeared
and the iron boot on the face of mankind forever is becoming
more evident in
our daily lives.
 Consider this:  "Are we a Republic?"  Do Senators vote on
bills that
would benefit their State?  Is the President concerned with the
Constitution
and does he veto bills that are against it.  Does the Judiciary
really
consider the Constitution when judging laws?  Why do I pay
nearly half the
money I earn to pay taxes that support rich corporate interests
and give
welfare to those who are too lazy to work.  No, it's not  purely
Communism,
but what do you call it when the rich get richer, the middle
class pays
exorbitant taxes, and the poor just barely get by is it
Statism refined to
incorporate Communism, Socialism and Fascism?   Just some
thoughts.

Regards,
Bob Stokes

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gives no endorsement t

Re: [CTRL] United States.... A Communist Nation?

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

This kind of logic that brings us to:

God is love
Love is blind
Stevie Wonder is blind
Therefore Stevie Wonder is God

I'm not arguing against the fact that much of America is
controlled, deliberately or otherwise, by inflation, fear, lies, etc...
Just that the logic which would thereby make us Commies is severely
flawed.

__
Subj:   Re: Young Communists League "bill of rights"
Date:   99-01-03 15:57:42 EST
From:   FTUN

In communist countries, the people are controlled with
inflation, fear, lies, illusions, disease and amusememts.

Aren't Americans controlled with inflation, fear, lies,
illusions, disease and amusements?

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control pills

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

I agree.. they SHOULD be looking for a better method, but until they
find one, there is still the pill for those who choose it.

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, December 30, 1998 8:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control
pills

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/30/98 7:46:04 PM, you wrote:

>Huh?  Most of the women I know who are on the pill have chosen
to be on
>it, not because their 'man' has demanded it..  They see it as a
personal
>choice that allows them to decide what happens to their bodies.
I admit
>that there are risks involved n the pill..

True, most women CHOOSE to take the pill, but it's only because
no other safe,
equally effective method has been developed, 100% for lack of
trying. Methinks
medical science could come up with a better way to control
fertility, what
with all their fantastic god-like technology. And most of the
women I've
spoken to on the issue begrudge the fact that better methods
haven't been
developed. There's a conspiracy for you. With 80,000 women being
diagnosed
with breast cancer every year, you've gotta look hard at
something like
this...

--Charles


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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Om

Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control pills

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

If they choose that I say it's their right..  I would hope that it could
be medically reversed though in case they change their minds.

-Original Message-
From:   KA [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, December 30, 1998 8:20 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control
pills

 -Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Jim Kinney wrote:
>Huh?  Most of the women I know who are on the pill have chosen
to be on
>it, not because their 'man' has demanded it..  They see it as a
personal
>choice that allows them to decide what happens to their bodies.

I wonder what he has to say about those women who voluntarily
choose to
have their tubes tied as a method of permanent birthcontrol...


June


===
   Ring out the old, ring in the new,
 Ring happy bells, across the snow;
 The year is going, let him go;
   Ring out the false, ring in the true.

 -- Tennyson:  In Memoriam

===


*---
*
revcoal AT connix DOT com

*---
*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this
email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control pills

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

Probably that.. and that what woman would trust a man to take it
regularly (heck, many of us still have trouble with that leaving the
seat down thing).  [for any of you who didn't catch that.. that was
humor]  I think that birth control for men hits many men in an ego
spot.. that whole manly virility thing.  Somehow our culture (as shown
by a number of television shows at the very least) portrays infertile
(deliberate or otherwise) men as 'less than a man'.  Also
SOME-BUT-NOT-ALL  men just do not want self-control.  I'd be really
happy to have some more of it.

-Original Message-
From:   L. Shipton [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Thursday, December 31, 1998 12:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control
pills

 -Caveat Lector-

The French developed a birth control pill --""For Men""--
Haven't heard
about it over here.  Wonder Why?  I guess men just do not have
or want
self-control.  Or maybe they want it to be "ALL" the women's
responsibility...  Normal of them I suppose.
Laura
aka The Pied Piper


DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Om

Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control pills

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

And breaking the sound barrier is impossible too.. as are commercial
airplanes and bumblebees.  As to the gay population.. as far as I can
tell they've always been there.. they are just demanding more human
respect than they used to.

-Original Message-
From:   Jim Condit Jr. [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Thursday, December 31, 1998 5:27 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control
pills

 -Caveat Lector-

Birth prevention pills so violate the cycles of a woman's body
that science
will never be able to fix the side physical side effects. Also,
someone
suggested, and it should be investigated based on the incredible
phenomenon
in our day of militant homosexuals bursting out all over, that
the birth
prevention pills so upset the hormones of the women taking them
that it also
upset the hormones of the babies they later birthed, many of
which babies
are today gender confused. Jim Condit Jr.


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==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Brain Wave Paradigms

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

I suppose that the Ayahuasca, Ibogaine, Psilocybin and such substances
may have been helping transport the shaman's consciousness too  The
drum beat may have had a little less to do about it. :-)

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==
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Om

Re: [CTRL] CHRISTMAS WISHES

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

I've also seen shows pointing it out as a hoax..  It may or may not be
true, but there is still a 'leap of faith' on whether or not you want to
believe in it.

-Original Message-
From:   E Mael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, December 30, 1998 2:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] CHRISTMAS WISHES

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>It boils down to the fact that ANY religion is a 'leap of
faith'...and
>one wastes one's time by trying to argue 'objective scientific
facts' on
>such a subject...
>
>
>June


you have not seen the film about the ark on mount ararat. it is
there. any
more leaps of faith, june? it was archeological

smilin'
ever so sweetly

chris

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==
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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control pills

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

Huh?  Most of the women I know who are on the pill have chosen to be on
it, not because their 'man' has demanded it..  They see it as a personal
choice that allows them to decide what happens to their bodies.  I admit
that there are risks involved n the pill..  the first generation of the
pill used mega-doses of hormones that are not especially safe and the
third generation pills have not yet been adequately tested, but all in
all I think that it is a woman's choice, with full knowledge of the
dangers.. and none of the men I know have ever 'demanded' it from
anyone..  Maybe you should find a new group of people.

-Original Message-
From:   Jim Condit Jr. [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, December 30, 1998 1:48 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control
pills

[snip] every woman who's man demands she use
birth control has the realization at some level that she is
being used a
sex vessel rather than treated as a person.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] WAGGING WAR

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

The School of the America's.. no.. I forgot.. they took torture and
overthrowing governments out of the curriculum.  I think that your last
few posts have been good Jerry.. thanks.

-Original Message-
From:   Gerald Harp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Monday, December 28, 1998 3:17 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] WAGGING WAR

Makes one wonder where our leaders get what appears to be
training that is alien to US values.

Jerry


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[CTRL] We are at war: Ramadan

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

I think a lot of it had to do with trying to attack and get it over with
to avoid the Islamic Holy month of Ramadan which begins Sunday.  We
would have no allies in the Middle East (except Israel) if we attacked
during Ramadan, and I don't think that we want to piss off Kuwait, Saudi
Arabia, Egypt and the rest that much.

-Original Message-
From:   Rock4life [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, December 16, 1998 7:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] We are at war

 -Caveat Lector-

Yep, just in time to delay the vote on impeachment. But of
course they say that
was not intended for that purpose, but look at all the other so
called stories
they have come up with...he'll try to stay in office at all
costs no matter what
has to be done...Rock

Hilary Thomas wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> For those of you who aren't listening to the news, we are at
war again.
> Bombing of Iraq began about 2 hours ago.  I've been watching
for the past 2
> hours.
>
> Hilary
>
> Together We Create Heaven on Earth
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> =
>
> Come join exploration - a discussion list dedicated to keeping
up-to-date on
> new technologies, advancements in medicine, environmental
concerns,
> 'conspiracy theories' and, of course, UFO stuff.  Discussion
is encouraged.
> Bashing and soapboxing will get you bounced off the list.
>
> To subscribe to exploration go to:
>
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>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
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Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are
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> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and
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> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being
said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
suggests to readers;
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>
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>
>

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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Re: [CTRL] CIVIL RIGHTS FOR EVERY ONE

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

Or we could just let them get married legally and limit benefits to
those who do.. then we wouldn't have to change anything else.  But then
again.. I have gay friends who live in Columbus.  I will write my local
politicians.. and thank them.

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, December 16, 1998 4:27 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:[CTRL] CIVIL RIGHTS FOR EVERY ONE

*   Caveat Lector-

If you have friends in the Columbus Ohio area, you might
want to have them relay this letter to the concearned paties.
(Copy and distribute to all Ohio news sources)
(Fax to civil rights law firms in Columbus
Ohio)
Here in Columbus Ohio, the politicians just gave
insurance benefits to homosexuals with out even a vote.
(Some of the info below is crude)
Public speaking is weird. Kind of like someone being
able to kill cut some one's throat with out scorn, but blurting out the
words describing they cut another's throat is wrong.
It has become a sick society when it is wrong to
describe what someone does, but there is nothing wrong in tha act they
are engaged in.
Take a look at some of the hot videos they buy.
Homos can stick their penis up each other's rectum and
then suck each other and that is a "right", but one who just describes
exactly what they did is some kind of evil bigot?
DOMESTIC PARTNERS
Such insurance was established because men were usually
the providers of the household and women stayed home with the children.
While children may be an emotional asset, they are a
finical burden. Even if a woman has a job, they still have to pay to
keep the kids and a baby sitter.
There is no way a government can track all male/female
partners to know what is happening with kids.
Companies began to offer these benefits because of the
burden of A FAMILY  KIDS !
Unlike hets, homos do not have kids, there is no reason
why one of them must stay home ... HOMOS with the same jobs MAKE MORE
MONEY then het couples, they do not have the same finical burdens.
Insurance/benefits was not established because of any romance/love
between people. If this were a fact every couple who claimed to "love"
each other would be able to force employers to give them benefits.
Will employers cease giving benefits to those who no
longer love each or those who just got married for convenience?
A domestic partner has nothing to do with love
or sex.
Everyone living in the same household, 2 or 10 is a
domestic
partner.
DO HETS GET INSURANCE BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THEIR SEX
IN BED?
Then will Columbus take away every married couple's
insurance IF they are no longer having sex?
Is Columbus going to give insurance to lesbians because
they lick each other between the legs?
Is Columbus going to give insurance to homos because
they shove their penis up each other's rectum?
IF the nature of sex or lack of it has nothing to do
with Columbus granting insurance to homos, then what is it?
DOMESTIC PARTNERS
Everyone living in the same house is a domestic partner.
If people are going to get insurance and benefits because they are
domestic partners, then :
*   A daughter living with her mother * A man living with his
brother
*   A daughter living with her sister* A couple of friends
living together
*   Two people sharing the same home just to make ends meet?
EVERY EMPLOYEE WORKING FOR COLUMBUS  LIVING WITH ANYONE ELSE,
MUST
GET THE SAME EQUAL DOMESTIC PARTNER BENEFITS AS HOMOSEXUALS!
Let's begin to put this issue in front of every lawyer in
Columbus and begin class action suites to ensure that EVERY DOMESTIC
PARTNER gets equal pay and equal benefits.
To start this action have someone in the Columbus area put an ad
in the paper for all domestic partners who want to be involved in a
class action law suite to get equal benefits for their domestic
partners.
While you are gathering people to join the suite, begin to fax a
letter similar to every civil rights law firm in Columbus...  at least
until you find an interested firm.
After you get your body of people together, take them to ensure
that they are compensated and gain the same equal benefits as
homosexuals.
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not
soapboxing!  These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its
many half-truths,

Re: [CTRL] Benedict Arnold

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

When was this?  Which airport in Newark, Ohio?  The air force base has
been closed for a number of years and the only other airport is so small
it is lucky to send up airplane rides on biplanes in the summertime (my
parents live there).  Just curious.

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, December 16, 1998 6:28 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:[CTRL] Benedict Arnold

 -Caveat Lector-

How many people know that Arnold was a great
American hero?

It seems he couldn't control his  and that is what
got him in trouble ... a woman who happen to have
British connections.

People talk a lot of patriot talk but of those of you
who love your wives, how many love your country
more than you love your wife?

If a man will betray his own wife, what would keep
him from betraying his country?

Ask the guy who gave our missile secrets to the Chinese.

Several months after Clinton signed the Brady bill to
get evil guns off the streets, how many people know that
Clinton made a deal with the Chinese and they sent
plane loads of guns to the airport in Newark Ohio?

Did you know that the guy who did the chinese bribe
thingy could have gotten 37 years in prison, but instead
he got 5 years probation?

Clinton will betray his country for political bribes and he
will betray his own wife for beautiful women...
No, this slime ball will betray his own wife for women
who have to sneak up on a glass of water.

It is past time for congress to remove the bad marks
from Benedict Arnold's records and correct all history
books, for Benedict Arnold was a better man than
Bill Clinton.

.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are
sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and
minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being
said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust
denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.



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Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

[CTRL] Decommissioned Government Base

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

http://www.postfun.com/pfp/features/98/dec/atomic.html


Just thought people might enjoy this description of one of the
government's little hide-aways.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] "Heads Up": Bill Clinton Is Finished

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

(Parts of this are in reference to the message being responded to in the
message quoted)

Exactly which form of communism are you referring to?  The failed
authoritarian right-wing Russian and Chinese models or the idealistic
left-wing view (I hate this whole Aristolean dualistic thing, but it
seems to be the model used here) that has never been seen in any world
government to the best of my knowledge?  They are definitely not the
same thing.  I think that a strong argument can be made that the Chinese
version of communism is actually a very conservative and extreme
right-wing (if we have to label these things so) organization.  Also, to
the best of my knowledge the presidential impeachment proceedings have
nothing to do with Mena.  I'm not arguing that isn't guilty in the whole
Mena fiasco, I feel that he may be, but the impeachment proceedings just
don't have anything to do with it (yet at least).  He cannot be
impeached due to Mena if no one ever brings it up in the proceedings.

-Original Message-
From:   Kenn Thomas [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Monday, December 14, 1998 10:52 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] "Heads Up": Bill Clinton Is Finished

 -Caveat Lector-

> Why is it that every time something is posted about Commie
Lover Clinton
> all we hear about is Bush and Reagan.

Which part of the Mena operation do you not understand?

>  Seems to be a conspiracy to keep any
> topic off Clinton and some people on this list said they were
"conservative."
> Clinton is as far to the left as anyone can get without being
called
> "Comrade."  "IF" the media is owned by the Republicans why
does it support
> Clinton all the time?

The media is controlled by the same corporate interests that
control the
Republicans and the Democrats. That political reality cares
little about these
"left" and "conservative" word games.

> Reagan and Bush have nothing to do with a discussion about
Clinton,

You can only say this by ignoring the facts.

> they were not subject to impeachment no matter what you
say...Clinton is.

The occupant of the White House is fully aware of the
non-electoral, extra-legal
processes that put him there. I don't cheer Clinton's weaseling
out of impeachment
(and he will; no way to get 2/3s in the Senate), and I almost
admire your naivete
in insisting that it was different with Reagan/Bush. But at the
half-century mark,
that naivete can only be willful.

kt


DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The Wonderful Wizard of Oz- Willy Wonka

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

Interesting..  now someone needs to do a conspiracy view of "Charlie and
the Chocolate Factory"

Five children...
Augustus: dresses in brown, falls into thick brown muck (earth)
Violet: dresses in blue, fills with liquid (water)
Veruca: dresses in red, is sent to the furnaces (fire)
Mike: dresses in white, is broken into particles and shot into the air
(air)
Charlie: Floats upwards gently..  (spirit)

All of the adults (except Willy Wonka and 'Slugworth') come in matched
pairs (George and Georgina, Joe and Josephine, Henry and Henrietta,
etc...).  In alchemy a frequently used symbol of an alchemical union is
a hermaphrodite.. a being with both male and female attributes.

Secret knowledge (the 'everlasting' Gobstopper, etc..) abounds, as well
as trials used to weed out the weak and undeserving of this knowledge.
The odd phrase by the tinker, 'No one goes in and nobody ever comes out'
(or something like that).

Is this actually some secret message about something?  I don't know, I
just picked this stuff up the other night while watching it.  Maybe
Marilyn Manson caught on and that's why the video for "Dope Hat" was
made.  Maybe not.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

I agree, but let's make sure we label it then as speculation rather than
fact.  Phrases like 'I think', 'it seems' and 'I believe' are handy ways
of pointing out where we jump off of facts and into speculation.  I do
agree though.. lets show every tidbit we find, but lets label them
properly to make sure we minimize the confusion.

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Friday, December 11, 1998 12:18 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

You certainly have a point, but the disemination of knowledge is
the least of
what can be done.  When a tidbit falls down to us we should work
on it.
Sometimes we can't always KNOW the facts, and simply must
speculate.
Teo1000


DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

I'm just as curious, as it is titled after the thread I started in which
everyone has (so far) been rather understanding.  It was probably about
the 'intelligence' comment in the other posting that brought it on, but
I didn't take that one too personally.. when you look at some of the
angry people posting here I agree that anyone who will rationally give
their point of view is welcome and that they may actually increase the
overall intelligence shown here (maybe.. I make no absolute claims
here).

-Original Message-
From:   Gerald Harp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Friday, December 11, 1998 10:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/10/98 4:55:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>
>  If we are allowed a vote in the matter, I'm getting a little
tired of
>  deleting all the hate/ bashing nonsense that seems to be
growing on this
>  list.  Save my delete button ware and tear and take these
discussions into
>  private e mail.

I'm puzzled by this post because it references my welcoming
response to a post
by someone who hadn't posted for a while.  While i feel great
angst regarding
your distress, how does my post relate to hate?  Are you, by any
chance, Rogue
Butterfly coming back under an alias?

Jerry Harp


DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

I have not read the Murray work, thank you for the reference.  Actually,
I think it is not so much the sacrificed king motif that is prevalent
throughout myth and occult philosophy though, but that of the
resurrected king.  We have stories of Arthur waiting until he is needed
again, Barbarossa (sic) is the same.  Resurrection cults include the
Osiris cult, Attis, Dionysis, Mithras and Christ (and that's just a
sampling).  It isn't the fact that the king dies that is important, it
is the fact that the king is born again.  In this way I think that Elvis
is probably much closer to the Divine King in most traditions that I've
seen (like I said, I haven't read the Murray book) than Kennedy is.
(Elvis is still thought by many to be alive and apparently hanging out
at Dunkin Donuts).

-Original Message-
From:   William Hugh Tunstall [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Thursday, December 10, 1998 11:18 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

 -Caveat Lector-

Mr. Kinney,

You will find information on "the killing of the divine king" in
Margaret
Alice Murray's THE DIVINE KING IN ENGLAND  London: Faber and
Faber, 1954.

You will read that the sacrificial slaughter of a king is an
integral
part of the occult lore of Europe and, interestingly, in the
Native
American civilizations of mesoamerica...

The sacrificial king motif goes back to Egypt to the Osiris-Isis
cult..  Osiris's body is dismembered in order to life to
others...etc.
The myth is embedded in the teachings of a number of secret
societies..

Best wishes,
    Wm
On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jim Kinney wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Mr. Caulfield (or do you go by 'Catcher?),
>
> Thanks for the Kennedy material.  It was interesting
Screwy But
> interesting.  Ok, how many of you out there really think that
Kennedy
> was killed as an occult conspiracy?  Show of hands.  How many
of you out
> there think that there are more holes in that theory than in
the whole
> 'I tried it and I didn't like it.  I never inhaled' story?
How many
> think that the CIA and Mafia working together, implausible
though it
> might seem, has a much, much higher probabilty of being right?
(I'm not
> saying that that's what happened, just that it seems much more
probable
> given the evidence)  Who's 'occult ritual' is the 'killing of
the divine
> king'?  Please try to give me a reference that ISN'T using it
in
> reference to Kennedy.  I want an alchemical or occult text.  I
believe
> it may exist, but I want to see it quoted.  Please also
provide the name
> of the Project Pegasus 'deep cover agent' and proof he once
lived or at
> the very least where I can download the sound files from the
tapes.
> Otherwise all of that info is completely unverifiable.  Like I
said..
> very interesting, but I need more independent verification,
not the
> mutual pat-on-the-back aren't-we-so-clever conspiracy journals
that all
> use each other as references.  Verifiable government documents
would be
> nice.  Please understand that I am not trying to say that
these things
> don't exist, just that if you want to get to the heart of it
you need to
> work on more than 'so-and-so said they talked to someone who
claimed
> they knew.'  Thanks though..  some of the info was very valid
I think.
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are
sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and
minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being
said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust
denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>

> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send
email:
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Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

Maybe the PoS doesn't exist now except as a red herring.. (maybe).
Maybe the Kennedy assassination hasn't been revealed because the one's
who could do the revealing are the ones who did it.  I'm not saying that
this isn't possible, just that we need to work towards verifiability.
Always ask yourself.. WWMD (What would Mulder do).  There needs to be
verifiability before any of this means anything.  To think you know
something is not sufficient in my eyes.  I feel we need something to
point at that is valid.

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Thursday, December 10, 1998 12:31 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/10/98 12:00:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Organizations, being made up of
 people, tend to evolve over time, and I feel that it is quite
possible
 that over generations that information, power and control can
be lost.
 How do you know that this has not happened? >>

If I may jump in here.  There is no way to "know" such things.
I would,
however, point to the builder's of the Egyptian Pyramids.  It is
my belief
that they excercised a great deal of control in their day and
that they kept
their technology absolutely secret, even 'til today.  Secrecy is
easy to
maintain when the members of the group are recruited for having
the very same
drives and motivating forces in their lives, thus it is in thier
OWN best
interests to keep it a secret.  Of course in mentioning the PoS
I would ask
you, if this is true, why don't we know something SOLID about
this group, who
some of the members are, etc. . . it would seem that if what you
say is true
then some of it would have come out (mind you Holy Blood Holy
Grail has some
info. on this BUT it is highly suspect by many).
The Kennedy assassination is a much better example.  Even you
must admit that
there were many people involved in that one and we the people
still have no
PROOF of anything.  We know it was a conspiracy but that is
about all, why
didn't this one fall apart?  The CIA still has stuff classified
in it's files
from 50 years ago, so secrecy can and is routinely kept for long
periods of
time.  The secrecy itself is part of the problem, it begets
itself and leads
to more secrecy which Usually leads to nefarious activity.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list.
Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are
sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and
minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being
said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust
denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.



To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send
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Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

Moe, Larry or Curly?  Seriously... thanks for the Golden Bough info.
That is just the kind of info I was looking for.  Now what 'occult'
group is actually using this?  I understood (inferred) that passage was
referring to 'pagan' fertility festivals.. the May Queen and all that
type of thing, but I haven't heard of anyone (including the Wiccans)
having actually used human sacrifice for fertility purposes in a while..
(for other purposes perhaps, but not fertility)  Heck, who was Frasier
talking about?  The group he is refering to does not appear in the
snippit and without that ifo even he is unverifiable (a shame too.. a
love his work.. I simply don't have my copy here right now.  Really..
thanks.  This is the kind of info we need.  Now how does Frasier tie to
Kennedy any more than it does John Lennon?  He wasn't a king.. but he
was the Walrus.

-Original Message-
From:   H. Caulfield [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Friday, December 11, 1998 12:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

I'll bet it was one of the 3 tramps.


DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

Thanks RoadsEnd for the info.  I still think that there is a fairly
significant amount of hooey in some of it, but I have to admit that much
of it is fairly well documented.  I'm not sure I buy a 'Luciferian'
angle to it though.  I'm also not sure that 'getting in early, sizing it
up and spending lots of money' qualifies as a 'conspiracy' per se.
Seems like good business sense.  Look at Microsoft.  One question for
you is this..  Does the fact that an organization was once a
manipulative organizational 'conspiracy' (such as the Masons seem to
have been, as well as Skull and Bones) mean that they will always be a
secret 'conspiracy' organization?  Organizations, being made up of
people, tend to evolve over time, and I feel that it is quite possible
that over generations that information, power and control can be lost.
How do you know that this has not happened?  How do you know that groups
like the Illuminati or the Priory of Sion or the Templars have a
continuous history?  Is it possible that the names have remained the
same but everything else has changed?  That is almost certainly what has
happened with the Rosicrucians (unless the AMORC is one heck of a lot
sneakier than they look).  Why not the Masons?  How can people know that
the goals of the 'conspiracies' have remained constant?  If they
haven't, then we are back to my original premise.. that we have small
groups of people working, perhaps within an established system, in their
own 'enlightened' self interest.  The system (such as the 'good ol' boys
club) may remain the same, but its goals and players change.  This does
not seem like the kind of conspiracy we are looking for, unless we are
willing to label the democratic and republican parties conspiracies.
The system may be wrong, putting too much power into people's hands, but
that does not make it a conspiracy, just a flawed system.

Once again, thanks for the info.  I appreciate your patience and the
understanding tone of your  reply.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

Mr. Caulfield (or do you go by 'Catcher?),

Thanks for the Kennedy material.  It was interesting Screwy But
interesting.  Ok, how many of you out there really think that Kennedy
was killed as an occult conspiracy?  Show of hands.  How many of you out
there think that there are more holes in that theory than in the whole
'I tried it and I didn't like it.  I never inhaled' story?  How many
think that the CIA and Mafia working together, implausible though it
might seem, has a much, much higher probabilty of being right?  (I'm not
saying that that's what happened, just that it seems much more probable
given the evidence)  Who's 'occult ritual' is the 'killing of the divine
king'?  Please try to give me a reference that ISN'T using it in
reference to Kennedy.  I want an alchemical or occult text.  I believe
it may exist, but I want to see it quoted.  Please also provide the name
of the Project Pegasus 'deep cover agent' and proof he once lived or at
the very least where I can download the sound files from the tapes.
Otherwise all of that info is completely unverifiable.  Like I said..
very interesting, but I need more independent verification, not the
mutual pat-on-the-back aren't-we-so-clever conspiracy journals that all
use each other as references.  Verifiable government documents would be
nice.  Please understand that I am not trying to say that these things
don't exist, just that if you want to get to the heart of it you need to
work on more than 'so-and-so said they talked to someone who claimed
they knew.'  Thanks though..  some of the info was very valid I think.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

Linda Minor said:
I research history wherever I go--local "good ol' boy" stuff.
In Texas we
call it "bidness."  Look around you, Jim.  This is what the real
conspiracy
is all about--making money for the wife and kiddies and in the
process maybe
becoming a shining member of the community.

My point exactly.. but I hardly consider this a 'conspiracy' in the same
sense that the Kennedy assassination seems to be.  I agree, we are a
'conspiracy' when you look at the way in which all of us seem to be more
comfortable dealing with people we know.. dealing with people like us.
This though is usually an 'unconscious' conspiracy, not a 'conscious'
one that seems to be the topic of so much conversation around here.
This does not mean that there is no 'dirty work' out there.  I think
that there are 'conspiracies' involved in our daily lives.  Banks which
refuse loans to people trying to move into the 'wrong' neighborhood for
instance, but I think that there are several steps missing between the
daily prejudices and the world-controlling versions.

I'm really curious as to your sources about the 'linking up' of the
lodges.  I know that there are several different Masonic orders, and I
will admit that I think that they do hold some political clout, but in
what way do you feel that they are a unified group?  Please give me some
references.  Thank you for your input.  I find this all very
interesting.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

My point in the earlier message was not to decrease the amount
of discussion or debate used around here, but to put the debate onto a
more sound reasoning.  If you wish to claim that ALL Masons are part of
a huge conspiracy, then I would like to say that I have Mason friends
who most assuredly do not have world domination in mind.  Since I am
assuming that you have to have some knowledge of a conspiracy to be a
'part' of it, then I would say that you are wrong.

If, on the other hand, you don't need to know that you are part
of a conspiracy, then how do you know that there is one?  It could be
just a small, small group of people 'in the know' who can push a whole
lot of buttons.  I think that this small group is possible, but even
then, individuals (and we have now narrowed the 'in the know' group to
individuals, not huge organizations) tend to work on gaining things in
their own lifetime if they are in it for power.  If they are not in it
for power, what are they in it for?  If they are in it for power, don't
you imagine that they would occasionally duke it out amongst themselves?
Then we don't have a single conspiracy at all, but a number of very
small conspiracies that sometimes work together, and sometimes work
against each other.  Kind of sounds like what I said in the last
message.

If knowledge of conspiracy is not needed to be a part of it,
does anyone involved need to know about it?  Could we have some kind of
monstrous unconscious conspiracy striking at us?  Creatures of the Id
straight from Forbidden Planet?  No.. I'm fairly sure that You are
looking for a secret society of incredibly powerful white men who
magically get along together perfectly and control everything (probably
all descended from Merovingians).  Kind of like the Smoking Man and
company on the X-Files, but with even more control over things.  I love
it, but I really don't think it works that way.  Incredibly powerful
people tend to get that way because they plow over people who get in
their way.  Bill Gates is a wonderful example.  I simply can't imagine
that a group (please tell me.. how many are we talking here?  A dozen?
A hundred?  A thousand?  How many are 'in the know'?) of powerful men
like that could tolerate each other for long at all.  But hey, I could
be wrong.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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[CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Jim Kinney]

 -Caveat Lector-

I have to admit that by reading this list I have become a little bit
frightened.. not by the theorized conspiracies or black-ops that are
constantly being reported, but by the frightening level of bad reasoning
used on all sides here..

In debate there is something called a "fallacy of association".
Associating Clinton's presidency with the Nazi's in Germany is an
obvious example of this.  No matter how bad Clinton is, Hitler's
government really wasn't all that much like ours.  Trying to tie the two
together is simply an attempt to paint them with the same brush.  They
are not the same.  Repeat after me.. They are not the same.

Also, to assume that there are monstrous, world-spanning unified
conspiracies is, in my humble opinion, ludicrous.  Let's face it, most
people work in their own interests.  We don't need informed conspiracies
to do most of the garbage we see out there today.  There need be no
conspiracy to impeach the President, just a whole lot of powerful people
who feel that they would be better off without him.  If each of these
people simply does what they can to get rid of him, even without knowing
that anyone else is doing the same, then he's in trouble.

This is not to say that there are not small 'conspiracies'.. agreements
between people to mutually work in their common interests.  I think that
many corporations work together in these kinds of 'conspiracies', even
though it may work against the public interest.  The thing to remember
though is that these types of 'conspiracies' rarely (although they
sometimes do) survive more than a few years or involve too many
'players'.. sooner or later the guard changes, policy changes or someone
gets caught.

Please remember that absolutes are dangerous here.  To claim that ALL of
a group of people control EVERYTHING is insane.  ALL of the Nazi's were
not responsible for the Holocaust.  Many were not even really aware of
what was going on.  Some were good and patriotic people.  Others were
heartless monsters, but ALL of them weren't anything.

ALL of the Jews were not innocent either.  There were collaborators
amongst the Jews.  There were also a whole hell of a lot of nice,
innocent people out there who died senseless deaths.  To claim that the
Jews had NO part in what happened is wrong.  I think that there was a
proud ethnic bond between SOME BUT NOT ALL of the Jewish people that did
tend to alienate them and probably made them easier targets for the
hatred of SOME BUT NOT ALL Germans at the time, but to claim that they
somehow CAUSED the Holocaust is as stupid as claiming that a rapist is
innocent because 'she was askin' for it'.  Trying to point at an
accusing finger at ALL members of a group is wrong.

Try these out for me..

"Freemasons are involved in the Illuminati!"
How many of you actually believe that their Uncle Joe is a member of a
huge conspiracy?  What is actually meant seems closer to..
"Some, but not all, Freemasons are involved in the Illuminati."

Or possibly..

"The Jews control the international banks."
The implication here is that all the Jews control all the banks.. Nope.
Try..
"Some, but not all, of the Jews control some (maybe even most) but not
all of the international banks."

If this is supposedly a research oriented list, then lets all try to use
language that actually makes sense instead of these emotional tirades.
I know it makes conspiracies less fun, but hey, I thought that this was
supposed to be about Truth.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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