Re: Intertesting article on Mogadishu, business, & no gov't

[James A. Donald]

 --
At 09:06 AM 8/10/2000 -0400, David Lesher wrote:
 > X-URL: 
http://www10.nytimes.com/library/world/africa/081000somalia-govern.html
 >
 > So it may come as a surprise that business people in Mogadishu,
 > the wrecked and lawless capital, are begging for a government.
 > They would love to be taxed and would gladly let politicians
 > meddle at least a bit in their affairs.


I have been following this peace conference, and I do not find it very 
worrying.

If some of these groups were saying "I want a government, and I want it so 
much I am prepared to sacrifice something important", then there would be 
some danger that the peace conference might produce a government.

Instead they are saying "It is vital to the interests of Somalia that 
someone else be sacrificed to benefit me, and we need a government in order 
to force these selfish people to make the necessary sacrifices to help me 
carry out my benevolent intentions."

While most people at the peace conference are in favor of some sort of 
government, they are in favor of very different governments, so there is 
little likelihood they will agree.

Each of the big clans wants a  powerful government dominated by their 
particular clan. (Hence the numerous and passionate disputes as to where 
the new capital shall be.)  Each of the business groups wants a limited 
government, limited to giving them special monopolistic privileges, but no 
similar privileges to any other business group "I am in favor of free 
markets, except that my business is a special case".  Each of the small 
clans wants a limited government, limited to restraining the power of the 
big clans.

And so on and so forth.

The conference has become a bid for power by the big clans at the expense 
of everyone else.  But the big clans will not agree amongst themselves, and 
if they did, they would still not have the power to make the government 
they created stick.  As soon as it becomes obvious to all the other 
interest groups that they are screwed, the shit will hit the fan.

 --digsig
  James A. Donald
  6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
  hxvGCMkAUiIUzRf2vrGH/ae8spQRH+FCIGgknv2/
  4dgJsD0P5LiyXrVuZhLczQnbuqueL3TClDQv2j/WR

Re: Non-Repudiation in the Digital Environment (was Re: First Monday August 2000)

[Tim May]

At 7:15 PM -0700 8/10/00, Ed Gerck wrote:
>Hi Salz!
>
>Saving time, labor money and gaining in the money market for transaction
>time differentials was the banks initial motivation  but the co$t advantages
>of unsupervised authentication assurances, liability confinment and 
>real-time auditing

Jesus Fucking Christ, can you people on the "Digital Bearer" and 
"dcsb" and "cryptography" and other such lists, __PLEASE__  stop 
cc:ing the Cypherpunks list on your closed-list missives?

--Tim May
-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

brains

[billp]

cypherpunks

I did a search tonight on 'pro se fights' on google.

My god!

Thanks.

If anyone doesn't think math takes a lot of work

http://www.nmol.com/users/billp/purpose.htm#We

then try software!

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/8327/load1.html

best
bill
http://www.geocities.com/computersystemsdocumentation/

[adailyjoke] August 10th, 2000

[A Daily Joke]

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  2. Once is never enough


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1.Funeral for a friend


Little Tim was in the garden filling a hole when his neighbor
peered over the fence. Interested in what the cheeky-faced
youngster was up to, he politely asked, "What are you up to
there, Tim?"

"My goldfish died," replied Tim tearfully, without looking up,
"and I've just buried him."

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The evolution of man has led to this...


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2. ONCE IS NEVER ENOUGH


A farmer wanted to have his hens serviced, so he went to the
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till Randy had finished having his way with each hen.

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all the horses, one by one and still at the same frantic pace.

Then he went to the pigpen, where he did the same. The farmer,
watching all of this with disbelief, cried out "Stop, Randy,
you'll kill yourself!" But Randy continued, seeking out each
farm animal in the same manner.

Well the next morning, the farmer looked out and saw Randy
 lying there on his lawn. His legs were up in the air, his eyes rolled
back, and his long tongue hanging out. A buzzard was already
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[adailyjoke] August 9th, 2000

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~~~Quote of the day~~~

The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys
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1. Bicycle Test


There was a young fellow who was quite inventive and was always trying
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could go before it became uncontrollable. He asked his friend, who owned
an old Mustang, if he could tie his bike to the bumper of his car to
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his theory.

His friend said, "Sure."

So the young man tied his bike to the back of the car and said to his
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With that, off they went. Things were going pretty well, with the car
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A little further down the road sat Officer John in his police cruiser,
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He called into headquarters on his radio: "Hey, you guys aren't going to
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What is Santa doing on your roof?


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2. Winning


A blonde walks up to a Coke machine and puts in a coin.
Out pops a Coke. The blonde looks amazed and runs
away to get some more coins. She returns and starts
feeding the machine madly and of course the machine
keeps feeding out drinks.

Another person walks up behind the blonde and watches
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CFP for special security section of Communications of the ACM

[Wall, Kevin]

My appologies for this late notice. This call for papers went out
awhile ago on some mailing lists and news groups, but a colleague
of mine suggested some of you readers might be interested in
responding as well.

I you are interested but don't think that you can meet
the deadline for abstracts (see CFP, below), then please contact
Imran Bashir , who is to be the guest
editor.

Thanks for your interest!
-kevin wall

===


   Call for Papers
   ---

We seek articles for a special section of the Communications of the
ACM on the security of inter-, intra-, and extranet software
applications. This special section will be published as part of the
February 2001 issue of the CACM.

The ubiquitous World Wide Web, the fastest growing element of the
Internet provides a perfect shooting target for the computer crackers,
script kiddies, and other such "bad guys". Since WWW is being utilized
equally by small and large corporations, and by governments, for
conducting their business electronically, people with malicious
intent do not have to leave their home to bring a business to its
knees. Contrary to the traditional model of distributing a software
application to a known set of "customers", today's web software model
exposes a software application to everyone alike. Any potential
security holes in the software can be exploited to cause various
kinds of damage. Similarly, the inherent nature of the internet
environment is conducive to the privacy invasion of individuals.
Others questions have been raised about the freedom of
speech, and of anonymous speech, on the internet.

The goal of this special section is to expose the software engineering
industry to the threats facing them in the development and deployment
of web-based software applications, and to expose the challenges of
the liberty-protecting software while maintaining the civil liberty
rights. We seek articles of varying length, where short articles/experience
reports could be as short as 2000 words, and other articles could be
longer but not exceeding 4000 words. We especially seek experience
reports that address a wide range of issues and ongoing developments in 
the web security, privacy, freedom of speech, including, but not limited 
to: 

- Securing Web/Application servers and their applications
- Security of the E-Commerce software applications
- Testing of the security aspect of web-based software
- Security pitfalls of programming languages
- Evaluation of existing security models
- Security architectures for the web-based software
- Protection of civil liberty rights on the web
- Privacy, freedom of speech, and the internet

The authors must adhere to the standards set out by CACM; the standards 
can be viewed by visiting:

http://www.acm.org/cacm/Authors.html

The article will be reviewed and authors will be informed of the final
selection. 

Submission deadlines are as follows:

Abstract (1-2 pages) due:   Aug 15, 2000
Full Papers Due:Aug 25, 2000
Acceptance Notification:September 4, 2000
Revision requests:  September 11, 2000
Revised copies due: September 25, 2000

Send electronic submissions to 
Imran Bashir
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

---
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]Phone: 614.932.5542
"Microsoft set the security state-of-the-art back 25 years with DOS, and
they
have continued that legacy to this day." -- Bruce Schneier, CRYPTO-GRAM,
6/15/99

Free membership request

[george natsis]

Yo hackers! We are going to see some free hardcore
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Re: Keg waiting periods

[lcs Mixmaster Remailer]

Tim May writes:

> Basically, Chaumian blinding would allow the holder of a credential 
> to selectively reveal bits of a credential, like uncovering just 
> window of an envelope with many data fields. An age credential could 
> be revealed without revealing a meatspace name credential.
>
> (There are issues of biometric authentication to consider, else this 
> envelope could be loaned to others, like driver's licenses are for 
> getting into bars.)

Right, and this is why all the whining about biometrics is misplaced.
Biometrics are a perfectly reasonable and useful technology.  They are
absolutely essential for a world which protects privacy via cryptography.
Biometrics enable is-a-person credentials which can be used to prevent
improper sharing of other credentials.  They allow for anonymous credit
ratings, where you can prove that you have paid your debts without
revealing your ID.  There are a host of other applications which depend
on people not being able to freely swap credentials and being able to
prove membership in various groups.

Of course it is a long way from here to there.  Power-hungry institutions
have little incentive to move away from a world in which people
are increasingly tracked and recorded in every detail.  And paranoid
cypherpunks shy away from any system which will add accountability even
when wrapped in a shield of pseudonymity.  The result is that there is
little or no market for this technology.  The fact that it's patented
up the wazoo doesn't help, either, of course.

Carnivore diversionary tactics ...

[Ernest Hua]

Title: Carnivore diversionary tactics ...





Someone here mentioned that Carnivore is just
another public relations diversionary tactic, and
while I am not willing to grant that theory 100%, I
suspect it has become one anyway.


Think about this for a moment ...


If the FBI plays this right, most Congress critters
will say, "Okay, they are being totally honest, and
I can see why they will not allow source to be 100%
public.  An univeristy review is probably good
enough ... I guess I'll trust them."  Chances are,
they will not convince the harshest critics like
Bob Barr, but the majority will get off their
backs.


But of course, there are basic flaws no matter how
"good" this review gets ...


1.  Every time the FBI walks into an ISP with a box
labelled "CARNIVORE - FBI USE ONLY", no one really
knows what kind of software is being used.  After
all, it is suppose to just sniff packets passively.
No one gets to review each USE of this box.  This
comes down to the, "You can sue us if you find us
in violation, but there is a law that says you may
not know what we are doing ..."  Official Secrets
Act, take two.


2.  The ISP will still have to route all the target
packets to this box, hence defeating the
effeciency of switched architectures, unless the
FBI gets to install this damn thing anywhere it
feels like (probably still not sufficient for huge
dial-in banks).


In the mean time, once the FBI has earned back the
trust of Congress critters, they will once again be
Feinstein-esque and blindly trust everything scare
story the FBI feeds them.


"Yes, Director Freeh, you're right!  We need to let
you take over Echelon!  Here are the keys to the
kingdom ..."


Ern

Re: Keg waiting periods

[Tim May]

At 1:30 PM -0400 8/10/00, dmolnar wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Gil Hamilton wrote:
>
>
>>  On the other hand, I wonder if you folks aren't much more than a
>>  couple of sensational newspaper articles away from the same thing.
>
>I'm a little too young to remember this, but wasn't this what happened in
>the U.S. in the 1980s ? I remember hearing from others that the drinking
>age was raised to 21 during that period; before it had been 18.
>
>of course, the way this is administered makes one wish for physical
>credentials without identity. you don't need to see everything on my
>driver's license (prominently emblazoned with "UNDER 21") to know
>that I'm not allowed to drink...

Yep. Chaumian credentials are sorely needed.

And I'll bet there are many newcomers on this list who don't even 
know what we're talking about here, as we don't often discuss it. It 
was heavily discussed in '92-94, and my Cyphernomicon has stuff on it.

Basically, Chaumian blinding would allow the holder of a credential 
to selectively reveal bits of a credential, like uncovering just 
window of an envelope with many data fields. An age credential could 
be revealed without revealing a meatspace name credential.

(There are issues of biometric authentication to consider, else this 
envelope could be loaned to others, like driver's licenses are for 
getting into bars.)

BTW, an interesting online variation of this is the issuance of 
"AdultCheck"-type credentials. Once such a credential has been 
issued, it can't be invalidated by the passage of time, now can it?

"I'm sorry, Mr. May, but your AdultCheck credential was valid last 
year, but it has expired. You'll have to pay them again so we know 
your aging hasn't reversed and turned you into a 17-year-old."

--Tim May
-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

Re: Keg waiting periods

[dmolnar]

On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Gil Hamilton wrote:


> On the other hand, I wonder if you folks aren't much more than a
> couple of sensational newspaper articles away from the same thing.

I'm a little too young to remember this, but wasn't this what happened in
the U.S. in the 1980s ? I remember hearing from others that the drinking
age was raised to 21 during that period; before it had been 18. 

of course, the way this is administered makes one wish for physical
credentials without identity. you don't need to see everything on my
driver's license (prominently emblazoned with "UNDER 21") to know
that I'm not allowed to drink...

-David

Puritans ( was Re: Keg waiting periods )

[Michael Motyka]

> It was all those damn puritans you guys sent over here in the
> 17th century; many of them are still alive and kicking. :-)
> 
> - GH
> 
You're so right - they are alive and well and they should all be Alpo by
next Friday but that's only my ignorant, short-sighted and selfish
opinion. 

Which Puritan sect is the nastiest :

A) The Classical Puritan who dictates your behavior because he is an
agent of God?

or 

B) The Modern Puritan who dictates your behavior because he is an agent
of Science?

or

C) The Psycho Puritan who dictates your behavior because he is an agent
of his own FFUD ( Frustration + FUD )?

Hints :

No A's are B's
No B's are A's
All A's are C's
All B's are C's

There's a bit of a political party line visible here I think.

Re: Keg waiting periods

[Gil Hamilton]

>But then what do we mere Europeans know? I was horrified to learn that
>in some parts of north America underage drinking did not mean (as it
>does here) an underage person buying alcohol in a bar, but an underage
>person drinking alcohol anywhere, even in their own homes.  The idea
>that in some states someone of 20 years old could be committing a crime
>by drinking a can of beer in private is astonishing.

It was all those damn puritans you guys sent over here in the
17th century; many of them are still alive and kicking. :-)

On the other hand, I wonder if you folks aren't much more than a
couple of sensational newspaper articles away from the same thing.
A few more incidents like the Blair boy's; mix in some newspaper
reports on the extent of teenage alcoholism and "binge drinking"
(in US studies, this is usually defined such that it's equivalent
to having three or four pints within a two hour period [oh, and
anyone who does this 3 or 4 times in a single week is said to be a
hardcore "alcoholic"]); throw in a couple of right-wing anti-drug
extremists talking about the evil spirits (pun intended); and a
couple of left-wing types that are sure they know what's best for
you, and who knows?

- GH


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Intertesting article on Mogadishu, business, & no gov't

[David Lesher]

X-URL: http://www10.nytimes.com/library/world/africa/081000somalia-govern.html


August 10, 2000

MOGADISHU JOURNAL

Somali Businesses Stunted by Too-Free Enterprise

By IAN FISHER

 M OGADISHU, Somalia, Aug. 7 -- There are five competing airlines here; three 
phone companies, which have
 some of the cheapest rates in the world; at least two pasta factories; 45 private 
hospitals; 55 providers
 of electricity; 1,500 wholesalers for imported goods; and an infinite number of 
guys with donkeys who will
 deliver 55 gallons of clean water to your house for 25 cents.
 
 What Somalia does not have is a government, and in many ways, that makes it the 
world's purest laboratory
 for capitalism. No one collects taxes. Business is booming. Libertarians of the 
world, unite!
 
 So it may come as a surprise that business people in Mogadishu, the wrecked and 
lawless capital, are
 begging for a government. They would love to be taxed and would gladly let 
politicians meddle at least a
 bit in their affairs.

..


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