[OT] Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Sat, 2014-06-14 at 09:30 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Chris Bannister > wrote: > > Son: What's a word processor Dad? > > Dad: Well, you know what a food processor does to food, right? > > Son: Ah!, I understand. Thanks Dad. > > Ah! That explains what happened on Ariel when Simon and River were to > be taken away for "processing". Think River had already been well and truly process before that point. -- Tixy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1402743857.3959.0.ca...@computer5.home
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:42 PM, Bob Proulx wrote: > Prunk Dump wrote: >> >> Yes I installed libreoffice-l10n-fr but in libreoffice draw the paper >> size stay on US letter... > > Configure the default paper settings with libpaper1. > > # dpkg-reconfigure libpaper1 > > That will present a dialog box allowing you to select the default > paper size. Because you have a large environment you will probably > want to set /etc/papersize directly. (Which is what I do.) The > package manages it with ucf. > > $ cat /etc/papersize IIRC the OP had said that neither locale nor libpaper were setting the paper size to A4 for LO or a component of LO. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=Sx=1-axjm2tp990bg8sbemqdcqheg2p1xmbc1ksusg...@mail.gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Chris Bannister wrote: > Son: What's a word processor Dad? > Dad: Well, you know what a food processor does to food, right? > Son: Ah!, I understand. Thanks Dad. Ah! That explains what happened on Ariel when Simon and River were to be taken away for "processing". ChrisA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAPTjJmp5Hzhm71mgMEdg7PYDY4HDxQvT3S3R=baark4ndr8...@mail.gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 01:18:46PM +0100, Tom Furie wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 01:21:40PM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > However, going through the tutorial is a must, especially if one is > > transitioning from word processors, otherwise you'll be very frustrated > > that pressing Enter twice doesn't have the effect you are used to :) > > Even in modern word processors (eg. MS Word or LibreOffice Writer) it > annoys me to find documents that use blank paragraphs as paragraph > spacing. All it needs is proper use of paragraph styles. Unfortunately > most people, even among those who are considered 'experts', generally > don't bother to learn how to use a word processor properly. Son: What's a word processor Dad? Dad: Well, you know what a food processor does to food, right? Son: Ah!, I understand. Thanks Dad. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140613160606.GE6187@tal
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 01:21:40PM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > However, going through the tutorial is a must, especially if one is > transitioning from word processors, otherwise you'll be very frustrated > that pressing Enter twice doesn't have the effect you are used to :) Even in modern word processors (eg. MS Word or LibreOffice Writer) it annoys me to find documents that use blank paragraphs as paragraph spacing. All it needs is proper use of paragraph styles. Unfortunately most people, even among those who are considered 'experts', generally don't bother to learn how to use a word processor properly. Cheers, Tom -- Mathematicians practice absolute freedom. -- Henry Adams signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Vi, 13 iun 14, 01:46:27, B wrote: > > There's also a word processor WYSIWYG spiting Latex > (don't remember its name, though); but it is better > to learn it manually because this way possibilities > are endless. If you mean LyX then it's WYSIWYM (What You See Is What You Mean) not WYSIWYG, i.e. you get a simple representation of what you are writing (headers, paragraphs, etc.) but for the final form you still need to process the document. Of course, it's slightly :p more intuitive than writing plain LaTeX, even with a specialized editor. However, going through the tutorial is a must, especially if one is transitioning from word processors, otherwise you'll be very frustrated that pressing Enter twice doesn't have the effect you are used to :) Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
B writes: > There's also a word processor WYSIWYG spiting Latex Two: Lyx and Gummi. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87k38lejwo@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 13/06/14 11:46, B wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 09:36:51 +1000 Chris Angelico > wrote: > >> And unlike typical binary document formats (at best, zipped XML >> like ODF), TeX source files are plain text, and work very nicely >> with source control. Efficient, clean, and you can read your >> diffs. It's kinda possible to make a readable content diff by >> dumping a text-only version of an ODT, but I've yet to see any >> useful diff from an edit that changes a line's heading level, >> for instance. > > There's also a word processor WYSIWYG spiting Latex (don't remember > its name, though); but it is better to learn it manually because > this way possibilities are endless. > You're probably talking about LyX, as Andrei mentioned :-) Richard -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTmkFyAAoJELSi8I/scBaNd5MIALFErSL4HEONOHbASEcsPjyg 85tYHe0bPFvBalV/LoKPxEujnxYN3invIpVoHAPS3w0xymA+jJCRiqZKnjOnSr1F n2moep+XU3NvWXQH5jRJgj5PZJTIV4gm6ljXynsz5Ogs06auDBR7Wy62VMxSV+ZL u8PD43BZJJnU7Tvfai0hs9lmGZ0qEO3+cNqKn7mI9L6xZahGytjYdZNuxqA5rS9r LkQmnAx1SreQtoZlUlaLIQQ1IpqCv7bDx9Sunvo+Lv+RG3M0GqUuJ7XXnavMwDek zY2h41MN00+wO7E8zXKjyI4NP7aMITye4kYTMX9JqgYuGPilfLtl4SWptBWHmKA= =EipW -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/539a4172.2000...@walnut.gen.nz
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 9:46 AM, B wrote: > There's also a word processor WYSIWYG spiting Latex > (don't remember its name, though); but it is better > to learn it manually because this way possibilities > are endless. I agree, but then, I also build my GUIs using code rather than WYSIWYG editors, so I'm a bit biased :) ChrisA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAPTjJmpDFWpqWDL0oN4TM5Av65aYzunSEQ_heT-u8uDq=Hs=k...@mail.gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 09:36:51 +1000 Chris Angelico wrote: > And unlike typical binary document formats (at best, zipped XML > like ODF), TeX source files are plain text, and work very nicely > with source control. Efficient, clean, and you can read your > diffs. It's kinda possible to make a readable content diff by > dumping a text-only version of an ODT, but I've yet to see any > useful diff from an edit that changes a line's heading level, for > instance. There's also a word processor WYSIWYG spiting Latex (don't remember its name, though); but it is better to learn it manually because this way possibilities are endless. -- Damned dit : I'm afraid of earthquakes and I'm freaking out at each tremor Ringo dit : Really? * You sent a wizz! Damned dit : ASSHOLE signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 8:09 AM, B wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 00:56:17 +0300 > Andrei POPESCU wrote: > >> Seriously, you're looking for TeX/LaTeX/LyX/etc. > > All teachers I know use Latex to build their courses > in a (very) nice way. > The learning curve is a bit odd, but it is worth > the result. And unlike typical binary document formats (at best, zipped XML like ODF), TeX source files are plain text, and work very nicely with source control. Efficient, clean, and you can read your diffs. It's kinda possible to make a readable content diff by dumping a text-only version of an ODT, but I've yet to see any useful diff from an edit that changes a line's heading level, for instance. Strong recommendation for TeX family. ChrisA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/captjjmoqhq7bccklx86wid52wopd83zdhjyfhlkhd37lmjf...@mail.gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 00:56:17 +0300 Andrei POPESCU wrote: > Seriously, you're looking for TeX/LaTeX/LyX/etc. All teachers I know use Latex to build their courses in a (very) nice way. The learning curve is a bit odd, but it is worth the result. You can even write books with it, as most of publishers also use it (or at least know how to work with it). -- Dark_Zezette : you've got a qwerty keyboard ? Marjo : No a logitech signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Jo, 12 iun 14, 23:28:46, Thierry de Coulon wrote: > > Maybe I was not clear. I have several machines, all running either the same > version of Linux, with (seems) the same fonts, or sometime a slightly > different (e.g. upgraded) version of Linux. Or simply I update Libre Office. > > And every time, I have to reformat the whole document, because the same font > does not take the same space. This is frustrating an time consuming. Pictures > move, end of page moves, page numbers change... Seriously, you're looking for TeX/LaTeX/LyX/etc. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Thursday 12 June 2014 22.56:27 Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Jo, 12 iun 14, 17:03:18, Thierry de Coulon wrote: > > My main concern with LibreOffice is that formatting is not consistent if > > you copen your document on another machine, but th'sts another story. > > Depending on what you mean by formating, I would argue that this is not > it's purpose (and neither is Word's). For that you need ps/pdf, > preferably with embedded fonts. > > Kind regards, > Andrei Hi Andrei, Maybe I was not clear. I have several machines, all running either the same version of Linux, with (seems) the same fonts, or sometime a slightly different (e.g. upgraded) version of Linux. Or simply I update Libre Office. And every time, I have to reformat the whole document, because the same font does not take the same space. This is frustrating an time consuming. Pictures move, end of page moves, page numbers change... For example I don't update Libre Office before July because I have lots of documents that I probably need to reformat if I update, and I'll do that during the hollyday, for the next school year. I would expect a document to remain the same as long as I stay on the same platform. Of course, changing to Mac or Windows I do expect to reformat (and I use PDF as far as I can). Regards, Thierry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201406122328.46263.tcou...@decoulon.ch
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Jo, 12 iun 14, 17:03:18, Thierry de Coulon wrote: > > My main concern with LibreOffice is that formatting is not consistent if you > copen your document on another machine, but th'sts another story. Depending on what you mean by formating, I would argue that this is not it's purpose (and neither is Word's). For that you need ps/pdf, preferably with embedded fonts. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
Prunk Dump wrote: > Yes I installed libreoffice-l10n-fr but in libreoffice draw the paper > size stay on US letter... Configure the default paper settings with libpaper1. # dpkg-reconfigure libpaper1 That will present a dialog box allowing you to select the default paper size. Because you have a large environment you will probably want to set /etc/papersize directly. (Which is what I do.) The package manages it with ucf. $ cat /etc/papersize Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Thursday 12 June 2014 16.20:12 David wrote: > On 12 June 2014 16:31, Prunk Dump wrote: > > Moreover some bugs that appear insignificant for a normal Debian user > > can become critical on entreprise. A simple example is LibreOffice. > > Some of the tools of the suite does not get the defaut paper size from > > libpaper or locale. So the print jobs are sended as US Letter instead > > of A4 and the printers reject them. It's impossible for me to explain > > to 1013 users how to change the page size. So they think that linux > > works bad and I'am sad ... > > I had a perfect opportunity to advocate for libreoffice to a new > workplace colleague today. I actually recommended against using it, > (even though I use it myself) because if I was to recommend a word > processor with a longstanding bug that entirely removes embedded > images at random from a document [1] then I feel sure that I would > entirely lose the respect and friendship of that colleague. > > [1] > http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/2515/writer-with-pictures-often-fail >s/ Never had this one. Reading the thread you give, it look as: - it happens with the Windows version - it happens when you use the *.docx format Now, as far as I am concerned, I can't see the point of using the *.docx format for work, as it is a non-native, non-free format. As to using Windows... My main concern with LibreOffice is that formatting is not consistent if you copen your document on another machine, but th'sts another story. Further, there does seem to be any fix for your bug (in LibreOffice), so how could it be applied on stable? Thierry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201406121703.18649.tcou...@decoulon.ch
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Thursday 12 June 2014 11:14:22 Prunk Dump wrote: > 2014-06-12 10:06 GMT+02:00 Lisi Reisz : > > On Thursday 12 June 2014 07:31:46 Prunk Dump wrote: > >> A simple example is LibreOffice. > >> Some of the tools of the suite does not get the defaut paper size from > >> libpaper or locale. So the print jobs are sended as US Letter instead > >> of A4 and the printers reject them. It's impossible for me to explain > >> to 1013 users how to change the page size. So they think that linux > >> works bad and I'am sad ... > > > > Install the relevant language pack. US Letter comes with the default US > > English pack. With libreoffice-l10n-en-gb (British English > > internationalisation pack) installed I get a default of A4. > > > > Lisi > > Thank you Lisi, > > Yes I installed libreoffice-l10n-fr but in libreoffice draw the paper > size stay on US letter... > > Maybe a bug in the French language pack ? > > Can you comfirm that you use Debian Wheezy and that you have A4 as > default in libreoffice draw ? I have just opened up LO Draw and imported a picture. I then looked in format, and there indeed under page was A4. So I printed it, and my printer (a Samsung ML 1510) printed it out quite happily and correctly on A4 paper. So the answer to your question is yes, I can confirn it. As you say, it must sadly be a bug in the French package. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201406121549.48745.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 00:20:12 +1000 David wrote: > processor with a longstanding bug that entirely removes embedded > images at random from a document [1] then I feel sure that I would > entirely lose the respect and friendship of that colleague. Never had this one (I always embed pictures in my docs, though). -- Ernest asks Frank how long he has been working for the company. "Ever since they threatened to fire me." signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On 12 June 2014 16:31, Prunk Dump wrote: > > Moreover some bugs that appear insignificant for a normal Debian user > can become critical on entreprise. A simple example is LibreOffice. > Some of the tools of the suite does not get the defaut paper size from > libpaper or locale. So the print jobs are sended as US Letter instead > of A4 and the printers reject them. It's impossible for me to explain > to 1013 users how to change the page size. So they think that linux > works bad and I'am sad ... I had a perfect opportunity to advocate for libreoffice to a new workplace colleague today. I actually recommended against using it, (even though I use it myself) because if I was to recommend a word processor with a longstanding bug that entirely removes embedded images at random from a document [1] then I feel sure that I would entirely lose the respect and friendship of that colleague. [1] http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/2515/writer-with-pictures-often-fails/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAMPXz=qGx=nQokBuOsfGjs=sibodnflb_dywkauyz_rhkq6...@mail.gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:14:22 +0200 Prunk Dump wrote: > Yes I installed libreoffice-l10n-fr but in libreoffice draw the > paper size stay on US letter... > > Maybe a bug in the French language pack ? It is also tied to the locale you use. I force LC_NUMERIC & LC_MESSAGES to "C" to avoid silly french system messages hazardous translations and I've got Letter as LO default format. -- Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper. -- Thomas Jefferson signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
2014-06-12 10:06 GMT+02:00 Lisi Reisz : > On Thursday 12 June 2014 07:31:46 Prunk Dump wrote: >> A simple example is LibreOffice. >> Some of the tools of the suite does not get the defaut paper size from >> libpaper or locale. So the print jobs are sended as US Letter instead >> of A4 and the printers reject them. It's impossible for me to explain >> to 1013 users how to change the page size. So they think that linux >> works bad and I'am sad ... > > Install the relevant language pack. US Letter comes with the default US > English pack. With libreoffice-l10n-en-gb (British English > internationalisation pack) installed I get a default of A4. > > Lisi > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201406120906.28066.lisi.re...@gmail.com > Thank you Lisi, Yes I installed libreoffice-l10n-fr but in libreoffice draw the paper size stay on US letter... Maybe a bug in the French language pack ? Can you comfirm that you use Debian Wheezy and that you have A4 as default in libreoffice draw ? Thanks again ! Baptiste. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/calr0qzekgxcejwbbqsdajmd8tt+58+b5xhocvzwogy7vwyx...@mail.gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Jo, 12 iun 14, 08:31:46, Prunk Dump wrote: > > Yes but, as a network administrator, I'am front of a problem with > debian Stable : the distribution is not very tested for entreprise > where we use complex tools (ldap, kerberos, nfs4, ...) and eccentric > configurations ( shared home, shared wine prefix, complex pam auth, > ...). So In one year of production I was confronted to some critical > bugs difficult to fix. Here some examples : [snip examples] Which is why it's so important to test your setup against testing and invest time in getting the bugs fixed *before* it is released. > One solution, suggested by Slavko, is to create my own repository and > correct the bugs myself. Maybe it is what I will do since it is very > simple in Debian to rebuild a package. But I need before to answer to > two questions : > > 1) What version number I need to give to my local packages so that > they will be updated immediately but overwrited on next stable release > ? Is gdm-3.4.1-8-r1 authorized in Debian ? How change the package > version when rebuilding ? With dch ? Since this is a private repository you have quite a lot of liberty, but I'd try to keep it as close as possible to Debian recommended practices. Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd suggest for a package in stable with a (more or less intrusive) patch applied to use something like (using package gdm3 as example): 3.4.1-8+local1 You could use anything (or nothing) instead of 'local', but you will probably want to keep it short. Do append a number or date or something that *always* increases, in case you need +local2, +local3 versions (e.g. only the patch is updated). If you create local backports of testing or unstable packages I strongly recommend using usual backports versioning policy, e.g. something like 3.8.4-6~bpo70+1 The special meaning of '~' ensures 3.8.4-6 is *higher*, so that if Jessie releases with this version upgrades will work properly. This is also a reason to avoid if possible backporting packages from unstable, because it may happen that those packages never migrate to testing and you end up with a local version like 3.8.4-9~bpo70+1 that is higher and you need special handling for upgrading to Jessie. > 2) How priority is sets on package repository ? When I add > debian-backports the packages are not automatically installed but on > http://fai-project.org/download they are. How is this works ? The main reference for priorities is apt_preferences(5), but in short, the backports repository has a priority of 100 (same as any installed package), which means you have to "force" installation of backports (with the '-t wheezy-backports' switch to apt-get), but upgrades with new *backports* will happen automatically. I'm guessing the fai repository doesn't have any special priority, so will be assigned the default (500), but 'apt-cache policy' will tell. Hope this explains, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Thursday 12 June 2014 07:31:46 Prunk Dump wrote: > A simple example is LibreOffice. > Some of the tools of the suite does not get the defaut paper size from > libpaper or locale. So the print jobs are sended as US Letter instead > of A4 and the printers reject them. It's impossible for me to explain > to 1013 users how to change the page size. So they think that linux > works bad and I'am sad ... Install the relevant language pack. US Letter comes with the default US English pack. With libreoffice-l10n-en-gb (British English internationalisation pack) installed I get a default of A4. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201406120906.28066.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
2014-06-11 1:48 GMT+02:00 Bob Proulx : >> The only problem I found with this release system it that, for the >> users like me that use Debian stable, it is not very motivating to >> find bug fixes because they are never applied to my version. > > On the contrary for me. For me it is very important to test out > Unstable and Testing so that when the next Stable release is made that > it will not have bugs that affect me. I depend upon Stable. But that > means I must test with Testing/Unstable so that bugs get fixed. > Therefore I am more motivated to report bugs and to work through bugs. > Yes but, as a network administrator, I'am front of a problem with debian Stable : the distribution is not very tested for entreprise where we use complex tools (ldap, kerberos, nfs4, ...) and eccentric configurations ( shared home, shared wine prefix, complex pam auth, ...). So In one year of production I was confronted to some critical bugs difficult to fix. Here some examples : -> pulseaudio won't start on cifs home, I needed to switch to nfs4 (http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/pulseaudio-discuss/2014-April/020351.html) Bug reported upstream, corrected on git version. -> gdm hang when disable_user_list = true (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=751140) Bug reported and patch proposed. I hope It will corrected on next point release since this is CVE-2013-7273. ->cups crash on unknown http state 0 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+bug/512220) Bug origin found but complex to fix. -> Kernel oops on aufs mount of nfs or cifs filesystems. Reported on many places. May be corrected on next kernel. Moreover some bugs that appear insignificant for a normal Debian user can become critical on entreprise. A simple example is LibreOffice. Some of the tools of the suite does not get the defaut paper size from libpaper or locale. So the print jobs are sended as US Letter instead of A4 and the printers reject them. It's impossible for me to explain to 1013 users how to change the page size. So they think that linux works bad and I'am sad ... Only this two tiny bugs (gdm login windows crash, print job rejected) make that my users have not a very good experience of my network. On my second mail I say that I will give a try to lighdm. It works well but with it, it is impossible to swith users in gnome. So if someone forget to close his session, the screen locks and it is impossible to log on the station for the other users. And I don't want to disable screen locks. >> Moreover, in my network, I need to manage 120 Debian Wheezy clients. >> So if I made the patch myself and create a new Debian package et is >> difficult for me to deploy the patched version to the client. > > At 120 machines you have plenty enough to justify putting some work > into automating the infrastructure. How are you applying security > upgrades now? Are you logging into each of them individually and > applying upgrades? Hopefully not. Let me point to a somewhat > academic gathering of articles on the topic. > > http://www.infrastructures.org/ > > I don't prefer pushing. I prefer that the systems pull updates. I > use my own infrastructure. My clients pull upgrades from a gold > server. > > http://www.infrastructures.org/bootstrap/pushpull.shtml > > There are many infrastructures available. Puppet is well known. > There is also Ansible, Chef, Salt, others. I suggest taking a peek at > one of those or others and adding some automation to your machines. > It will take some effort up front but it will pay it back many times > later with easier maintenance. > > Bob Yes, I use Debian FAI to install the base stations by PXE and puppet to make configurations. Therefore it is very easy for me to install a new package or change a configuration files. But when bugs are not corrected on Stable I always need to find a workaround. One solution, suggested by Slavko, is to create my own repository and correct the bugs myself. Maybe it is what I will do since it is very simple in Debian to rebuild a package. But I need before to answer to two questions : 1) What version number I need to give to my local packages so that they will be updated immediately but overwrited on next stable release ? Is gdm-3.4.1-8-r1 authorized in Debian ? How change the package version when rebuilding ? With dch ? 2) How priority is sets on package repository ? When I add debian-backports the packages are not automatically installed but on http://fai-project.org/download they are. How is this works ? Thank you very much to all ! Baptiste. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/calr0qzgwfswg9nox0v8lxpb9dzq_cyqnenqkaoc7xum8zad...@mail.gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
Prunk Dump wrote: > This is exactly what I want to know. On Debian, the stable release is > very stable ! Only the critical bugs are corrected. Yes. And I for one count upon this to be able to maintain production systems and to enable setting up new production systems. On any given day the Unstable release may not be installable. It might be broken in various ways. Testing is better but even Testing might have problems. Stable is by design stable. Which for me means I can install it on any day and it will operate as expected. I can train other people to install it. I can automate the installation so that anyone can image or re-image systems and it will behave as expected. That is very important in my environment. > The only problem I found with this release system it that, for the > users like me that use Debian stable, it is not very motivating to > find bug fixes because they are never applied to my version. On the contrary for me. For me it is very important to test out Unstable and Testing so that when the next Stable release is made that it will not have bugs that affect me. I depend upon Stable. But that means I must test with Testing/Unstable so that bugs get fixed. Therefore I am more motivated to report bugs and to work through bugs. > Moreover, in my network, I need to manage 120 Debian Wheezy clients. > So if I made the patch myself and create a new Debian package et is > difficult for me to deploy the patched version to the client. At 120 machines you have plenty enough to justify putting some work into automating the infrastructure. How are you applying security upgrades now? Are you logging into each of them individually and applying upgrades? Hopefully not. Let me point to a somewhat academic gathering of articles on the topic. http://www.infrastructures.org/ I don't prefer pushing. I prefer that the systems pull updates. I use my own infrastructure. My clients pull upgrades from a gold server. http://www.infrastructures.org/bootstrap/pushpull.shtml There are many infrastructures available. Puppet is well known. There is also Ansible, Chef, Salt, others. I suggest taking a peek at one of those or others and adding some automation to your machines. It will take some effort up front but it will pay it back many times later with easier maintenance. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
Ahoj, Dňa Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:32:34 +0200 Prunk Dump napísal: > The only problem I found with this release system it that, for the > users like me that use Debian stable, it is not very motivating to > find bug fixes because they are never applied to my version. Yes and no :-) First, there is a chance that the same version of the software is in testing too. Next, there is a chance that the same bug (if unknown yet) will stay in next versions too. For finding bugs (and fixing) there are unstable and testing. The latest's name pointing to testing of the software (for the next stable), then if you are willing to play with bugs (finding, fixing) to help make Debian better, you can consider to switch to the testing (jessie now). The unstable (sid) is more intended for developers (mainly Debian's developers), than for testers, but can be usable too. IMHO testing is good choice for desktop computer – i am using it for years, in latest two or three years i encounter only with minimal problems, but yes – they sometime happens. There is one beside effect with testing - things (software properties and functions) can and will change, often without any info before, then you can need to customize your configuration more often than in stable, but you will learn new things with this too :) > Moreover, in my network, I need to manage 120 Debian Wheezy clients. > So if I made the patch myself and create a new Debian package et is > difficult for me to deploy the patched version to the client. I can suggest to create own repository on the LAN, where you can place the patched package and install from it in all clients. Yes, this can be time consuming, but if you have remote root access via (e.g.) SSH with keys, you can simple automate the package upgrade process by some bash (or similar) script. Very simple example (here only echo): LAN="192.168.0." for IP in $(seq 1 10); do echo ssh root@$LAN$IP apt-get update echo ssh root@$LAN$IP apt-get install some_package done There are some packages to maintain more remote computers at once, but i am not using any. > Thanks your very much Bob ! And excuse my English. Don't worry about your English :) regards -- Slavko http://slavino.sk signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
2014-06-05 10:41 GMT+02:00 Bob Proulx : > Prunk Dump wrote: >> My debian wheezy clients are all affected by the following bug in gdm-3.4.1 : >> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=683338 >> >> This bug is marked as Fixed, because it does not appear in gdm-3.8.3-1 >> witch is in the Debian archive. > > Ah, yes. A typical situation. The Debian BTS is designed around the > Unstable Sid track. Bugs get reported against versions. If a newer > version appears in Unstable then the bug is closed. > >> This bug is forwarded to the gdm bug tracking system but it was never >> fixed in the 3.4.1 version. >> >> My question is when this bug will be fixed on Debian Stable ? > > It will be fixed when the version that no longer has the bug is > released as a Debian Stable rlease. > >> -> On the next wheezy release ? > > No. Or rather very unlikely. It is not up to the package > maintainer. Most package maintainers would like their packages to be > released into the next minor point release. But it is not up to the > package maintainer. It is up to the Debian release team what goes > into a minor point release. > > Packages are updated in point releases for security issues. They are > updated when the package has a bug that makes it significantly > unusable. But being a production stable release packages are not > normally updated for normal bugs. > > https://www.debian.org/News/2014/20140426 > > If someone were really motivated this could be patched into 3.4.1 and > a package submitted to stable-proposed-updates. Of course then you > could simply use that patched package yourself outside of the official > Debian packages. When you upgrade to the next Stable they would be > replaced and all would be normal. > > If the package were one that was available in debian-backports then > you could install it from there. Unfortunately for your problem with > gdm3 that package isn't in backports. Someone could prepare a > backported package however. Using debian-backports is generally much > easier than pushing something through stable-proposed-updates. > > http://backports.debian.org/ > >> -> Never on wheezy, I need to wait for the stable Jessie ? > > Correct. Unlikely on Wheezy due to it not meeting the criteria for a > stable point release update. Would need to convince the Debian > Release team. Normally the fix would appear in the next release. The > next release is Jessie. > >> -> When the bug will be fixed by the gdm maintainers in the 3.4.1 version ? > > My best advice is to use one of the other xdm programs such as lightdm > which does not suffer from that problem. Give lightdm a try and you > might find it superior to gdm3. I did. > > apt-get install lightdm > > Bob Thank you very much Bob for your detailed explanation ! This is exactly what I want to know. On Debian, the stable release is very stable ! Only the critical bugs are corrected. The only problem I found with this release system it that, for the users like me that use Debian stable, it is not very motivating to find bug fixes because they are never applied to my version. Moreover, in my network, I need to manage 120 Debian Wheezy clients. So if I made the patch myself and create a new Debian package et is difficult for me to deploy the patched version to the client. I have started to try switching to lighdm. Thanks your very much Bob ! And excuse my English. Baptiste. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/calr0qzgg4hkomh28ckgm6r4se5ij6tgenkvdd2+scdfv0gy...@mail.gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
Ahoj, Dňa Thu, 5 Jun 2014 16:52:05 +0100 Joe napísal: > > > > dpkg-reconfigure gdm3 > > > > There is. I've edited /etc/X11/default-display-manager in the past. I > believe reconfiguring any *dm that may be installed should offer the > choice of all of them. > You are right. I have no GDM3, but i was slim & lightdm at once, when i was switching from the ligthdm to slim. Te selection the default one was done by reconfigure the one or the second one. There was only one thing, the old DM i need to stop and new to start manually, e.g. invoke.rc-d lightdm stop invoke.rc-d slim start Of course, the it can be done in once by computer restart. -- Slavko http://slavino.sk signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 09:22:07 + (UTC) Curt wrote: > On 2014-06-05, Bob Proulx wrote: > > > > My best advice is to use one of the other xdm programs such as > > lightdm which does not suffer from that problem. Give lightdm a > > try and you might find it superior to gdm3. I did. > > > > apt-get install lightdm > > > > I asked myself, "How do you change the default display manager?" > because I didn't know how, having little know-how; first I suspected > the modification might be made through the update-alternatives > system, but apparently not. > > dpkg-reconfigure gdm3 > > seems to be the way to do it from what I've read so far. Maybe there's > more than one way to skin this cat (I love cats by the way and no > actual animals were damaged or maligned writing this post). > > There is. I've edited /etc/X11/default-display-manager in the past. I believe reconfiguring any *dm that may be installed should offer the choice of all of them. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140605165205.289d7...@jretrading.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On Thursday 05 June 2014 10:22:07 Curt wrote: > dpkg-reconfigure gdm3 > > seems to be the way to do it from what I've read so far. Yes. The DE I use (Trinity) had a bug in the upgrade script such taht the dm always reverted to gdm on upgrade (I use, and prefer, kdm-trinity). I took to using dpkg-reconfigure every time before leaving the command line where I had been upgrading. You will be offered all the installed dms. If you install a new dm, my experience has been taht at the time of installation you will be asked which dm you want as default. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201406051033.51103.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
On 2014-06-05, Bob Proulx wrote: > > My best advice is to use one of the other xdm programs such as lightdm > which does not suffer from that problem. Give lightdm a try and you > might find it superior to gdm3. I did. > > apt-get install lightdm > I asked myself, "How do you change the default display manager?" because I didn't know how, having little know-how; first I suspected the modification might be made through the update-alternatives system, but apparently not. dpkg-reconfigure gdm3 seems to be the way to do it from what I've read so far. Maybe there's more than one way to skin this cat (I love cats by the way and no actual animals were damaged or maligned writing this post). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnlp0dj8.29v.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
Prunk Dump wrote: > My debian wheezy clients are all affected by the following bug in gdm-3.4.1 : > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=683338 > > This bug is marked as Fixed, because it does not appear in gdm-3.8.3-1 > witch is in the Debian archive. Ah, yes. A typical situation. The Debian BTS is designed around the Unstable Sid track. Bugs get reported against versions. If a newer version appears in Unstable then the bug is closed. > This bug is forwarded to the gdm bug tracking system but it was never > fixed in the 3.4.1 version. > > My question is when this bug will be fixed on Debian Stable ? It will be fixed when the version that no longer has the bug is released as a Debian Stable rlease. > -> On the next wheezy release ? No. Or rather very unlikely. It is not up to the package maintainer. Most package maintainers would like their packages to be released into the next minor point release. But it is not up to the package maintainer. It is up to the Debian release team what goes into a minor point release. Packages are updated in point releases for security issues. They are updated when the package has a bug that makes it significantly unusable. But being a production stable release packages are not normally updated for normal bugs. https://www.debian.org/News/2014/20140426 If someone were really motivated this could be patched into 3.4.1 and a package submitted to stable-proposed-updates. Of course then you could simply use that patched package yourself outside of the official Debian packages. When you upgrade to the next Stable they would be replaced and all would be normal. If the package were one that was available in debian-backports then you could install it from there. Unfortunately for your problem with gdm3 that package isn't in backports. Someone could prepare a backported package however. Using debian-backports is generally much easier than pushing something through stable-proposed-updates. http://backports.debian.org/ > -> Never on wheezy, I need to wait for the stable Jessie ? Correct. Unlikely on Wheezy due to it not meeting the criteria for a stable point release update. Would need to convince the Debian Release team. Normally the fix would appear in the next release. The next release is Jessie. > -> When the bug will be fixed by the gdm maintainers in the 3.4.1 version ? My best advice is to use one of the other xdm programs such as lightdm which does not suffer from that problem. Give lightdm a try and you might find it superior to gdm3. I did. apt-get install lightdm Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: When bug fixes are applied on stable ?
Ahoj, Dňa Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:44:17 +0200 Prunk Dump napísal: > My question is when this bug will be fixed on Debian Stable ? > -> On the next wheezy release ? > -> Never on wheezy, I need to wait for the stable Jessie ? > -> When the bug will be fixed by the gdm maintainers in the 3.4.1 > version ? By my knowledge, to the stable will be applied only security fixes. -- Slavko http://slavino.sk signature.asc Description: PGP signature
