[l10n-dev] Re: [releases] Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
Hi Marcus, *, not sure why this slipped my radar, but still: On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Marcus Lange wrote: > Christian Lohmaier wrote: >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Marcus Lange >> wrote: > > if there wouldn't be a QA for langpacks, then they wouldn't get released. Of > course not every NL community is testing all files but fact is that they get > tested and released in general. > > However, using langpacks because there is no QA cannot be correct. ;-) Not the point at all. Number of full-builds provided by Sun: only a handful selected ones. Number of langpacks provided by Sun: ALL. >>> It's up to the native lang teams to test also language packs if they want >>> to >>> make them available for the endusers. :-) >> >> Don't agree with the smiley here. >> You created the page because only "power users" are aware of mirrors. >> But now you're giving the argument that you need to be power user to >> use languagepacks. How does a non-power-user know about that process >> when it is nowhere mentioned on the page? > > When you are able to install the full package, IMHO you are also able to > install a langpack. Again completely missing the point. A) There's no full installer for the desired language B) The desired language has not been approved yet, people didn't find it and did select the english version instead. So you tell them to wait until somebody did QA on the langpack to be able to find it. That's just mean. >> At least add a prominent sentence like "If your language is not >> listed, then have a look at rc directory on extended mirrors. It will >> be only listed here when it has been approved by the corresponding >> native-lang projects (link to the process description) > > This website is about released versions. I don't want to mixup with not > released versions; even when a RC is close to it. Then the whole page is useless IMHO. ciao Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org
Re: [l10n-dev] Re: [releases] Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
Dear coworker, whatever I ment: When I translate or localize gnumeric or koffice, the localized version is always available to all users 'as is' via repositories. Why should oo.o make a difference, I mean to follow some formal procedures without any real sense? Isnt that enough that translations are submitted and possible issues are filed via IZ? ain On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 23:54, Mechtilde wrote: > Hello Ain, > > Ain Vagula schrieb: >> So hard to understand? I know my NL version has issues, too serious, >> not depending on me. > > Are these issues different to the ones in the other NL versions? Are > they specific for the ee version? > > Why the heck should I follow the procedure? I >> just want that availabilility of my version is visible on oo.o main >> site? I dont want to lie. There are issues. But a version is >> available, good for 99.99% of users. But everyone says to me, that my >> NL version is not available via oo.o main website. >> > > Otherewise you are the person who decide and is responsible about your > NL version whether it can be released or not. > > Or are there too many text untranslated? > > If you decide it is good enough to release this is your decision. > > Special problems can also be discussed at #ooonlc at irc.freenode.net > > Kind regards > > > Mechtilde > > -- > Dipl. Ing. Mechtilde Stehmann > ## http://de.openoffice.org > ## Ansprechpartnerin für die deutschsprachige QA > ## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris > ## Meine Seite http://www.mechtilde.de > ## PGP encryption welcome! Key-ID: 0x53B3892B > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org
Re: [l10n-dev] Re: [releases] Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
Hello Ain, Ain Vagula schrieb: > So hard to understand? I know my NL version has issues, too serious, > not depending on me. Are these issues different to the ones in the other NL versions? Are they specific for the ee version? Why the heck should I follow the procedure? I > just want that availabilility of my version is visible on oo.o main > site? I dont want to lie. There are issues. But a version is > available, good for 99.99% of users. But everyone says to me, that my > NL version is not available via oo.o main website. > Otherewise you are the person who decide and is responsible about your NL version whether it can be released or not. Or are there too many text untranslated? If you decide it is good enough to release this is your decision. Special problems can also be discussed at #ooonlc at irc.freenode.net Kind regards Mechtilde -- Dipl. Ing. Mechtilde Stehmann ## http://de.openoffice.org ## Ansprechpartnerin für die deutschsprachige QA ## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris ## Meine Seite http://www.mechtilde.de ## PGP encryption welcome! Key-ID: 0x53B3892B - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org
Re: [l10n-dev] Re: [releases] Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
So hard to understand? I know my NL version has issues, too serious, not depending on me. Why the heck should I follow the procedure? I just want that availabilility of my version is visible on oo.o main site? I dont want to lie. There are issues. But a version is available, good for 99.99% of users. But everyone says to me, that my NL version is not available via oo.o main website. ain On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 23:32, Mechtilde wrote: > Hello, > > Ain Vagula schrieb: >> It doesnt matter at all. I have resources to distribute my native >> language version by myself. I dont have resources to follow this >> insane QA prodedure. Only a bit pity that all users who visit >> Openoffice.org main website will have a false imagination that there >> is no oo.o version in particular language. > > IMO it is very easy. > > The l10n leead decide whether they want to release there national > version or not. > > (S)He decide whether the user can install and works with it or not. > > The l10n lead is resposible about the quality of the national version > compared with the other ones. > > Kind regards > > Mechtilde > > > -- > Dipl. Ing. Mechtilde Stehmann > ## http://de.openoffice.org > ## Ansprechpartnerin für die deutschsprachige QA > ## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris > ## Meine Seite http://www.mechtilde.de > ## PGP encryption welcome! Key-ID: 0x53B3892B > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org
Re: [l10n-dev] Re: [releases] Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
ie. this fine download page would have a sense when it lists all NL projects (including official mirrors for NL versions) and points to their download pages. It is not fair at all to ignore availability of NL version of oo.o to this short lists because of some language dependent issues - what do you propose? To use en-us version because NL version has issues? Excuse me, this sucks. ain On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 23:24, Ain Vagula wrote: > It doesnt matter at all. I have resources to distribute my native > language version by myself. I dont have resources to follow this > insane QA prodedure. Only a bit pity that all users who visit > Openoffice.org main website will have a false imagination that there > is no oo.o version in particular language. > > ain > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 22:06, Sophie wrote: >> Resent with the good adress and to l10n@ also, sorry. >> Hi Bernard, >> Bernard Marcelly wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> IMHO translation work is probably too cautious, and this hinders usage of >>> OpenOffice.org. >>> >>> Take swedish (sv) or spanish (es) languages : >>> - There is no full package available for 3.1.1, only version 3.1.0. >>> - The langpacks for 3.1.1 have not been released. >>> - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2. So power users can install OOo >>> 3.1.1 in these languages, and be happy. >>> >>> Take italian (it) language : >>> - Full packages are released for 3.1.1 >>> - Langpacks for 3.1.1 are *not* released. >>> - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2. >>> I don't understand why the full package is released but not the langpack. >>> >>> I don't understand why a langpack in RC2 stays unreleased. >>> RC2 means that it seems good enough for public tests. If there are some >>> strings not yet translated, or badly translated, this does not prevent from >>> using OpenOffice.org as a whole. If a user does not master one of the >>> published languages, it is better than nothing. And then users of this >>> language will find and report residual errors. >> >> This is not a matter of strings not translated, but of the stability of the >> version as Joost mentioned. >> >> Releasing or not releasing as stable has always been a difficult choice. >> User that faces a not fully functional version or version that crashes may >> never come back to OOo, however if you don't release the version, you will >> miss testers and their feedback. >> >> We have already seen language specific bugs and for that have decided that a >> version or language pack that is not tested should not become public. OOo >> has a QA process even for localized version, this what we have agreed on >> several times ago. >> >> I've offered my help to each l10n team to help them in this process, it is >> still valid my time is still dedicated to these teams because it will give >> more visibility to their versions if they are on the main network, but also, >> and more important to my eyes, to their teams and the work they have done. >> >> Kind regards >> Sophie >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org >> >> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org
Re: [l10n-dev] Re: [releases] Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
Hello, Ain Vagula schrieb: > It doesnt matter at all. I have resources to distribute my native > language version by myself. I dont have resources to follow this > insane QA prodedure. Only a bit pity that all users who visit > Openoffice.org main website will have a false imagination that there > is no oo.o version in particular language. IMO it is very easy. The l10n leead decide whether they want to release there national version or not. (S)He decide whether the user can install and works with it or not. The l10n lead is resposible about the quality of the national version compared with the other ones. Kind regards Mechtilde -- Dipl. Ing. Mechtilde Stehmann ## http://de.openoffice.org ## Ansprechpartnerin für die deutschsprachige QA ## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris ## Meine Seite http://www.mechtilde.de ## PGP encryption welcome! Key-ID: 0x53B3892B - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org
Re: [l10n-dev] Re: [releases] Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
It doesnt matter at all. I have resources to distribute my native language version by myself. I dont have resources to follow this insane QA prodedure. Only a bit pity that all users who visit Openoffice.org main website will have a false imagination that there is no oo.o version in particular language. ain On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 22:06, Sophie wrote: > Resent with the good adress and to l10n@ also, sorry. > Hi Bernard, > Bernard Marcelly wrote: >> >> Hi, >> IMHO translation work is probably too cautious, and this hinders usage of >> OpenOffice.org. >> >> Take swedish (sv) or spanish (es) languages : >> - There is no full package available for 3.1.1, only version 3.1.0. >> - The langpacks for 3.1.1 have not been released. >> - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2. So power users can install OOo >> 3.1.1 in these languages, and be happy. >> >> Take italian (it) language : >> - Full packages are released for 3.1.1 >> - Langpacks for 3.1.1 are *not* released. >> - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2. >> I don't understand why the full package is released but not the langpack. >> >> I don't understand why a langpack in RC2 stays unreleased. >> RC2 means that it seems good enough for public tests. If there are some >> strings not yet translated, or badly translated, this does not prevent from >> using OpenOffice.org as a whole. If a user does not master one of the >> published languages, it is better than nothing. And then users of this >> language will find and report residual errors. > > This is not a matter of strings not translated, but of the stability of the > version as Joost mentioned. > > Releasing or not releasing as stable has always been a difficult choice. > User that faces a not fully functional version or version that crashes may > never come back to OOo, however if you don't release the version, you will > miss testers and their feedback. > > We have already seen language specific bugs and for that have decided that a > version or language pack that is not tested should not become public. OOo > has a QA process even for localized version, this what we have agreed on > several times ago. > > I've offered my help to each l10n team to help them in this process, it is > still valid my time is still dedicated to these teams because it will give > more visibility to their versions if they are on the main network, but also, > and more important to my eyes, to their teams and the work they have done. > > Kind regards > Sophie > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org
[l10n-dev] Re: [releases] Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
Resent with the good adress and to l10n@ also, sorry. Hi Bernard, Bernard Marcelly wrote: Hi, IMHO translation work is probably too cautious, and this hinders usage of OpenOffice.org. Take swedish (sv) or spanish (es) languages : - There is no full package available for 3.1.1, only version 3.1.0. - The langpacks for 3.1.1 have not been released. - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2. So power users can install OOo 3.1.1 in these languages, and be happy. Take italian (it) language : - Full packages are released for 3.1.1 - Langpacks for 3.1.1 are *not* released. - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2. I don't understand why the full package is released but not the langpack. I don't understand why a langpack in RC2 stays unreleased. RC2 means that it seems good enough for public tests. If there are some strings not yet translated, or badly translated, this does not prevent from using OpenOffice.org as a whole. If a user does not master one of the published languages, it is better than nothing. And then users of this language will find and report residual errors. This is not a matter of strings not translated, but of the stability of the version as Joost mentioned. Releasing or not releasing as stable has always been a difficult choice. User that faces a not fully functional version or version that crashes may never come back to OOo, however if you don't release the version, you will miss testers and their feedback. We have already seen language specific bugs and for that have decided that a version or language pack that is not tested should not become public. OOo has a QA process even for localized version, this what we have agreed on several times ago. I've offered my help to each l10n team to help them in this process, it is still valid my time is still dedicated to these teams because it will give more visibility to their versions if they are on the main network, but also, and more important to my eyes, to their teams and the work they have done. Kind regards Sophie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org
[l10n-dev] Re: [releases] Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
Christian Lohmaier wrote: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Marcus Lange wrote: Hi Christian, yes, much more were built but only a few were tested and approved for release. Only these can be taken into account. That is very unfortunate - one of the reasons for using language packs is that there is no proper QA and people at first don't find their NL-Version and download the en-US one. Then people tell "doesn't matter, just download and install the small languagepack" and then again people cannot find it. if there wouldn't be a QA for langpacks, then they wouldn't get released. Of course not every NL community is testing all files but fact is that they get tested and released in general. However, using langpacks because there is no QA cannot be correct. ;-) It's up to the native lang teams to test also language packs if they want to make them available for the endusers. :-) Don't agree with the smiley here. You created the page because only "power users" are aware of mirrors. But now you're giving the argument that you need to be power user to use languagepacks. How does a non-power-user know about that process when it is nowhere mentioned on the page? When you are able to install the full package, IMHO you are also able to install a langpack. At least add a prominent sentence like "If your language is not listed, then have a look at rc directory on extended mirrors. It will be only listed here when it has been approved by the corresponding native-lang projects (link to the process description) This website is about released versions. I don't want to mixup with not released versions; even when a RC is close to it. We should think of a different way to go. After all, those projects who are doing qa, mainly do this on the full versions - and users of those languages are likely to download the localized version first and are looking for the less prominent languages as an addition. I think so, too. Best regards Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org
[l10n-dev] Re: [releases] Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Marcus Lange wrote: > Hi Rafaella, > > yes, much more were built but only a few were tested and approved for > release. Only these can be taken into account. That is very unfortunate - one of the reasons for using language packs is that there is no proper QA and people at first don't find their NL-Version and download the en-US one. Then people tell "doesn't matter, just download and install the small languagepack" and then again people cannot find it. > It's up to the native lang teams to test also language packs if they want to > make them available for the endusers. :-) Don't agree with the smiley here. You created the page because only "power users" are aware of mirrors. But now you're giving the argument that you need to be power user to use languagepacks. How does a non-power-user know about that process when it is nowhere mentioned on the page? At least add a prominent sentence like "If your language is not listed, then have a look at rc directory on extended mirrors. It will be only listed here when it has been approved by the corresponding native-lang projects (link to the process description) After all, those projects who are doing qa, mainly do this on the full versions - and users of those languages are likely to download the localized version first and are looking for the less prominent languages as an addition. ciao Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@l10n.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@l10n.openoffice.org
