Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-03-19 Thread d6jg


BJW wrote: 
> Things got confused in this thread imo.  I use RG, I do not use
> normalization and wouldn't want to.
> 
> But the other issue doesn't make sense.  Think of output level as the
> volume knob.  If it's at 10, that's 100%.  If it's at 5, that's 50%.  In
> either case, RG should be applied and noticeable (vs not being applied)
> bc it's done in software, prior to reaching the output stage.
> 
> So while I never put anything past server and it's hardware
> implementation, I believe the contention that 100% output defeats RG is
> wrong.

I was wrong. RG does appear to work at 100%.



VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS)
[B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-03-19 Thread BJW


Things got confused in this thread imo.  I use RG, I do not use
normalization and wouldn't want to.

But the other issue doesn't make sense.  Think of output level as the
volume knob.  If it's at 10, that's 100%.  If it's at 5, that's 50%.  In
either case, RG should be applied and noticeable (vs not being applied)
bc it's done in software, prior to reaching the output stage.

So while I never put anything past server and it's hardware
implementation, I believe the contention that 100% output defeats RG is
wrong.



using:  win7 64 + lms 7.9 & duet & ipads w/the logitech app, and ipeng
on an ipod
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/various_artists_logic &
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/compilations

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-02-06 Thread d6jg


bakker_be wrote: 
> I have never known it not to work. I believe this is just a coincidence
> with this particular album, where the extremely low recording level
> would induce clipping when boosted to the reference level, which is
> something that ReplayGain doesn't do by default. In Foobar2K this
> behaviour can be circumvented, don't rightly know about it in LMS.

It was me that started this thread. The album in question was recorded
at a very low level and "seemed" not to be obeying the RG tags when the
player (SB3) was at fixed volume. However the player was part of a Group
created through "Group Players" plugin where there was another player
also involved but I didn't test it on its own.

I will set another single player with 100% Fixed Volume and run the
offending album through it as part of a playlist and advise. The sound
level of the recording is so low that it will be immediately obvious but
I can't do it until later.



VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS)
[B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
Everything controlled by iPeng

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-02-06 Thread bakker_be


slartibartfast wrote: 
> I have not tried myself but this thread suggests replaygain works with
> volume fixed at 100%.
> 
> https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?93913-ReplayGain-Problems
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

I have never known it not to work. I believe this is just a coincidence
with this particular album, where the extremely low recording level
would induce clipping when boosted to the reference level, which is
something that ReplayGain doesn't do by default. In Foobar2K this
behaviour can be circumvented, don't rightly know about it in LMS.



Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901
+ Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer
PDP-LX5090H
Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated)
Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer
Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel
Ultima 20 Mk 2
Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey +
Topping A30 + Focal Elear
Car: TBC ...

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-02-05 Thread slartibartfast


JJZolx wrote: 
> Does this mean that ReplayGain is disabled by LMS when a player's volume
> is fixed at 100%? Is that actually in the code?
> 
> Someone explain to me why it cannot work at 100%.I have not tried myself but 
> this thread suggests replaygain works with
volume fixed at 100%.

https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?93913-ReplayGain-Problems

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk





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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-02-05 Thread JJZolx

d6jg wrote: 
> Now I think about it I can see the logic as to why it wouldn’t but also
> how you could be fooled into thinking that even at 100% it could /
> should work.

Does this mean that's ReplayGain is disabled by LMS when a player's
volume is fixed at 100%? Is that actually in the code?

Someone explain to me why it cannot work at 100%.



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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-02-03 Thread cliveb


bakker_be wrote: 
> Probably all depends on the tools used. I haven't gone back and checked
> since discovering ReplayGain, but at the very least the "volume
> normalization" feature in Windows Mediaplayer adversely affected
> dynamics and was irreversibly applied to the files ...
> I agree that the "official" definition indeed is as you say.
Wouldn't surprise me if WMP's "volume normalisation" is some sort of
compressor that attempts to boost the perceived volume to match typical
CDs. Just guessing, though.



Transporter -> ATC SCM100A

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-01-31 Thread bakker_be


cliveb wrote: 
> I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. Normalisation is the application
> of linear amplification so as to bring the peak level to a defined value
> (usually, but not necessarily, 0db).
> It most definitely does not affect the dynamics.
> 
> My advice to the OP is to go ahead and normalise his Bob Marley needle
> drop, and then recalculate the replay gain values.

Probably all depends on the tools used. I haven't gone back and checked
since discovering ReplayGain, but at the very least the "volume
normalization" feature in Windows Mediaplayer adversely affected
dynamics and was irreversibly applied to the files ...
I agree that the "official" definition indeed is as you say.



Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901
+ Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer
PDP-LX5090H
Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated)
Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer
Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel
Ultima 20 Mk 2
Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey +
Topping A30 + Focal Elear
Car: TBC ...

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-01-25 Thread Mnyb

Yes replay gain tags only teaks the volume at playback .

But never at a positive values because of clipping so there is a target
volume let’s say -10dB ( the exact value is probably something else ) so
the rg tags is an offset to reach the target volume usually negative .

Really well recorded stuff can have a small positive values .

But I suppose a reallly large positive value trips up the algorithm so
it does not dare to raise the volume to much as clipping may occur .
Or also likely the volume was so very low that you needed more than 100%
gain 0db at playback to match the other tracks .
The player can not provide more than full volume .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-01-25 Thread cliveb


bakker_be wrote: 
> Normalization is not the same as boosting the overall volume.
> Normalization loses the dynamics as it's more akin to dynamic
> compression.
I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. Normalisation is the application
of linear amplification so as to bring the peak level to a defined value
(usually, but not necessarily, 0db).
It most definitely does not affect the dynamics.

My advice to the OP is to go ahead and normalise his Bob Marley needle
drop, and then recalculate the replay gain values.



Transporter -> ATC SCM100A

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-01-24 Thread bakker_be

d6jg wrote: 
> What you say about 100% Fixed is interesting as I could have sworn it
> used to work. Where I noticed is an SB3 which is in a Group with an O2
> Joggler as a Control Point / Now Playing display but I always play the
> group. Wonder if it’s that?

It shouldn't. I've used the group player plugin as well, for a
combination SBT + SqueezePlayer, both set to 100% fixed, and it worked
as it should. I do seem to remember that RG refuses to lift the volume
to the desired level if this would induce clipping.



Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901
+ Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer
PDP-LX5090H
Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated)
Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer
Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel
Ultima 20 Mk 2
Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey +
Topping A30 + Focal Elear
Car: TBC ...

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-01-24 Thread d6jg

bakker_be wrote: 
> Normalization is not the same as boosting the overall volume.
> Normalization loses the dynamics as it's more akin to dynamic
> compression. Digitally boosting these tracks with 12dB as proposed will
> lift everything by these same 12dB, ending up at ±-3dB absolute for the
> loudest peaks and (-3dB - the difference between loudest and quietest)
> for the quietest parts. Think of it as just turning the volume knob on
> your amplifier.
> It does seem strange to me however that RG doesn't work when your volume
> is fixed at 100. I've been using RG on all my files for years and never
> once had this issue on any client with this setting in effect. I thought
> that this was done server-side befor sending out to the client ...

What you say about 100% Fixed is interesting as I could have sworn it
used to work. Where I noticed is an SB3 which is in a Group with an O2
Joggler as a Control Point / Now Playing display but I always play the
group. Wonder if it’s that?



VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS)
[B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
Everything controlled by iPeng

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-01-24 Thread bakker_be

d6jg wrote: 
> You can indeed but I adopted RG as opposed to Normalisation some while
> ago.
> There is a Normalisation option in VinylStudio but my collection is
> about 2000 CDs to 650 LPs so RG was easier when I started out. That said
> I’m still re ripping stuff that I foolishly did at 320kbps MP3 at the
> outset!

Normalization is not the same as boosting the overall volume.
Normalization loses the dynamics as it's more akin to dynamic
compression. Digitally boosting these tracks with 12dB as proposed will
lift everything by these same 12dB, ending up at ±-3dB absolute for the
loudest peaks and (-3dB - the difference between loudest and quietest)
for the quietest parts. Think of it as just turning the volume knob on
your amplifier.
It does seem strange to me however that RG doesn't work when your volume
is fixed at 100. I've been using RG on all my files for years and never
once had this issue on any client with this setting in effect. I thought
that this was done server-side befor sending out to the client ...



Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004 + TMA Premium 905 + TMA Premium 901
+ Teufel Ultima 20 Mk 2 + BK Monolith+ FF + Lenovo T460 + Kodi + Pioneer
PDP-LX5090H
Workshop: iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated)
Wherever needed: Acer Iconia Tab A700 + Squeezeplayer
Kitchen: iPhone 5s + iPeng (local playback activated) + NAD 312 + Teufel
Ultima 20 Mk 2
Headphone (cozy corner): Lenovo T550 + Squeezelite-X + Cyrus Soundkey +
Topping A30 + Focal Elear
Car: TBC ...

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-01-24 Thread d6jg

Apesbrain wrote: 
> If you don't want those big RG values, you can amplify the files.  Just
> amplify each track by the same amount.  12dB should do it.

You can indeed but I adopted RG as opposed to Normalisation some while
ago.
There is a Normalisation option in VinylStudio but my collection is
about 2000 CDs to 650 LPs so RG was easier when I started out. That said
I’m still re ripping stuff that I foolishly did at 320kbps MP3 at the
outset!



VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS)
[B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
Everything controlled by iPeng

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Re: [slim] You learn something new everyday

2019-01-23 Thread Apesbrain


If you don't want those big RG values, you can amplify the files.  Just
amplify each track by the same amount.  12dB should do it.



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