Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
Russell Thank you for the clarification. Just a couple of questions below ... On 1/08/2011 11:09pm, Russell Keith-Magee wrote: Close, but not quite. * USE_I18N turns on the availability of translations at all. If USE_I18N is false, all translation-related activities are no-ops. * Assuming USE_I18N is enabled, the current language can be set using either the browsers language header*or* using a call to a url activating a specific language for a session (django.views.i18n.set_language). Any text marked for translation will use the usual ugettext tools and the .mo data files to determine the translated text. * By default, all numbers and dates are rendered using the global format settings. I can see those in django.conf.global_settings If USE_L10N is enabled, the formats.py file corresponding to the currently enabled language will be used to determine date/number formats. settings.LANGUAGE_CODE determines the "currently enabled language" as implied by the comment in the django-admin generated settings.py - if it hasn't been set in some other way as you mention above. But looking ahead to your next point below, should this one also say ".. and USE_L18N is enabled .."? * If USE_L10N is enabled, but USE_I18N isn't, then the global language code will be used to determine the formats file that is used. Do we need *both* USE_L10N and USE_I18N set true to give effect to date/number formats in the "currently enabled language"? It makes sense to me that we do. Although, I want localised formatting long before I want translations. Thanks Mike * There are a couple of edge cases in form processing around L10N. For reasons of backwards compatibility, localized formatting isn't automatically turned on for the display of form data, so you have to turn on localize=True on every field that you want to display data in a localized format. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Mike Dewhirstwrote: > On 1/08/2011 8:09am, Lucy Brennan wrote: >> >> I read Wikipedia and Django docs. Now, after all this debate, I see that I >> _did_ understand the definitions when I first read it. >> >> Given those definitions however, the meaning of USE_I18N and USE_L10N are >> not obvious. Far, far, far from obvious. There _absolutely_ has to be some >> additional explanation of what those two settings does. How can you even >> think that it is obvious??? > > Can I try and summarise from the perspective of a new user? I want to > include both in my current project so I'm hoping this summary is correct. > Please correct me if I'm wrong ... > > Localisation L10N - if switched on via USE_L10N = True - means try to detect > the user's browser header which reveals the region set in the user's > computer. IF detected AND if there is a > ../site-packages/django/conf/locale/[xx_XX]/formats.py which corresponds > THEN django will magically translate numbers, dates and times accordingly. > > Internationalisation i18n - if switched on via USE_I18N = True - means to > enable translation of string/unicode literals found in the software PROVIDED > the translation mechanism is being used AND translations of the literals > exist. This mechanism involves ugettext.py and use of the language code > deliberately selected by the user from among those on offer which you (the > developer) have made available. The ugettext function goes off and finds the > correct prepared translation file > (../site-packages/django/conf/locale/[xx_XX]/LC_MESSAGES/django.po/.mo) and > uses the literal as an index into that file and returns the translation for > display to the user. That's the django translations. For your own software > translations you have to prepare your own [app].po/.mo file. Close, but not quite. * USE_I18N turns on the availability of translations at all. If USE_I18N is false, all translation-related activities are no-ops. * Assuming USE_I18N is enabled, the current language can be set using either the browsers language header *or* using a call to a url activating a specific language for a session (django.views.i18n.set_language). Any text marked for translation will use the usual ugettext tools and the .mo data files to determine the translated text. * By default, all numbers and dates are rendered using the global format settings. If USE_L10N is enabled, the formats.py file corresponding to the currently enabled language will be used to determine date/number formats. * If USE_L10N is enabled, but USE_I18N isn't, then the global language code will be used to determine the formats file that is used. * There are a couple of edge cases in form processing around L10N. For reasons of backwards compatibility, localized formatting isn't automatically turned on for the display of form data, so you have to turn on localize=True on every field that you want to display data in a localized format. Yours, Russ Magee %-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On 1/08/2011 8:09am, Lucy Brennan wrote: I read Wikipedia and Django docs. Now, after all this debate, I see that I _did_ understand the definitions when I first read it. Given those definitions however, the meaning of USE_I18N and USE_L10N are not obvious. Far, far, far from obvious. There _absolutely_ has to be some additional explanation of what those two settings does. How can you even think that it is obvious??? Can I try and summarise from the perspective of a new user? I want to include both in my current project so I'm hoping this summary is correct. Please correct me if I'm wrong ... Localisation L10N - if switched on via USE_L10N = True - means try to detect the user's browser header which reveals the region set in the user's computer. IF detected AND if there is a ../site-packages/django/conf/locale/[xx_XX]/formats.py which corresponds THEN django will magically translate numbers, dates and times accordingly. Internationalisation i18n - if switched on via USE_I18N = True - means to enable translation of string/unicode literals found in the software PROVIDED the translation mechanism is being used AND translations of the literals exist. This mechanism involves ugettext.py and use of the language code deliberately selected by the user from among those on offer which you (the developer) have made available. The ugettext function goes off and finds the correct prepared translation file (../site-packages/django/conf/locale/[xx_XX]/LC_MESSAGES/django.po/.mo) and uses the literal as an index into that file and returns the translation for display to the user. That's the django translations. For your own software translations you have to prepare your own [app].po/.mo file. If there is someone with experience in this area who can comment on this or correct it please? Thanks Mike So since I could not figure that out, I started looking for explanations. And somewhere I found, that the settings meant respectively: translation and localized formatting. And that is why I sent this post on quite a detour. Sorry about that. Do you people realize that if a newbie reads a) Wikipedia on I/L b) Django on I/L, c) this thread. They will still not understand what those two settings do! @ Russell: I would not hesitate to help writing the documentation. But I simply don't know what those settings do. So I can't write it. (tragicomic smiley) Lucy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-users/-/d9ShQzQ7tnsJ. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
I read Wikipedia and Django docs. Now, after all this debate, I see that I _did_ understand the definitions when I first read it. Given those definitions however, the meaning of USE_I18N and USE_L10N are not obvious. Far, far, far from obvious. There _absolutely_ has to be some additional explanation of what those two settings does. How can you even think that it is obvious??? So since I could not figure that out, I started looking for explanations. And somewhere I found, that the settings meant respectively: translation and localized formatting. And that is why I sent this post on quite a detour. Sorry about that. Do you people realize that if a newbie reads a) Wikipedia on I/L b) Django on I/L, c) this thread. They will still not understand what those two settings do! @ Russell: I would not hesitate to help writing the documentation. But I simply don't know what those settings do. So I can't write it. (tragicomic smiley) Lucy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-users/-/d9ShQzQ7tnsJ. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 18:21 +1000, Mike Dewhirst wrote: > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/internationalization/ > - Internationalization > > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/localization/ - > Localization > > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/deployment/ - > Deployment of translations > > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/howto/i18n/ - Using > internationalization in your own projects > > ... and maybe when I've got it working I'll do an noob's overview. remember that all these were one page originally (and perhaps easier to understand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On 29/07/2011 5:38pm, Masklinn wrote: On 2011-07-29, at 05:56 , kenneth gonsalves wrote: On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 09:37 -0700, Lucy Brennan wrote: Before I comment, I would like to actually know if I got it right. In Django: USE_I18N: translation USE_L10N: localized formatting Right? wrong That's not what the Django documentation says, at least in my reading of it. I've been reading it since this thread began because I want to understand it. I'm finding it quite hard going but I think I'm getting somewhere. Here are the bookmarks I have on the topic so far ... https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/ - Internationalization and localization https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/internationalization/ - Internationalization https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/localization/ - Localization https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/deployment/ - Deployment of translations https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/howto/i18n/ - Using internationalization in your own projects ... and maybe when I've got it working I'll do an noob's overview. hth Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Masklinnwrote: > On 2011-07-29, at 06:58 , Russell Keith-Magee wrote: >> To the rest of this thread: I want to head something off at the pass >> right now -- consider it a core-team decision that we're not going to >> rename these settings. I18n and L10n are well understood terms to >> anyone who has been dealing with adapting software to multiple >> languages and cultures reasonable descriptions of what Django does >> with the USE_I18N and USE_L10N settings, and we're not going to change >> the values because someone comes up with a slightly better name. There >> needs to be something fundamentally wrong or misleading before we >> would even consider changing the name of a setting, and given that >> these settings have been in the wild successfully for some time (I >> think it's 4 years in the case of USE_I18N) you're not going to find >> that here. > I think the issue with USE_I18N is not so much that it's been kept, but > that it was not expanded to cover USE_L10N's scope as well, with the > ability to enable or disable each subsection of the domain > (translations and localisation of value formats) added on top of that. > > I would have made more sense, to me, if USE_I18N enabled *all* of the > relevant l10n, m17n and i18n machinery and if new processes in this > field were added to the flag's purview as they were introduced, bringing > a django project with USE_I18N enabled ever closer to full "effective" > internationalization. If you think things could work better -- we accept patches :-) However, before you embark on a massive rewrite of Django's i18n and l10n systems, keep in mind that there are entirely valid historical reasons why the settings act the way they do -- mostly to do with maintaining backwards compatibility and retaining the ability to opt into potentially expensive (and confusing) options. Any proposal to change Django in a way that loses either of those properties won't be looked upon favorably. In particular, if you think the capabilities of USE_L10N could be subsumed by an expanded interpretation of USE_I18N, I think you need to take a much closer look at Django's source code, and the mailing list discussions that led to the introduction of the USE_L10N setting. Yours, Russ Magee %-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 09:38 +0200, Masklinn wrote: > > wrong > That's not what the Django documentation says, at least in my reading > of it. i18n - preparing an app to be customised in *any* locale l10n - actually customising it for a *particular locale One can do i18n *without* doing *any* translation. i18n - marking strings for translation, l10n - translating the marked strings. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On 2011-07-29, at 06:58 , Russell Keith-Magee wrote: > Lucy: Although there are a lot of people that use L10N and I18N > interchangeably, they are very distinct terms; any source you find > that uses them interchangeably is categorically wrong. However, the > two are very closely related, because localization usually happens in > the presence of internationalization, and vice versa -- hence the > common confusion. Although they share a Wikipedia page, if you read > the rest of the page, you'll see they make a distinction between a > localized system and an internationalized system. But as far as I read her messages, Lucy was not asking what L10N and I18N are, she was asking what USE_I18N and USE_l10N do. In Django. > To the rest of this thread: I want to head something off at the pass > right now -- consider it a core-team decision that we're not going to > rename these settings. I18n and L10n are well understood terms to > anyone who has been dealing with adapting software to multiple > languages and cultures reasonable descriptions of what Django does > with the USE_I18N and USE_L10N settings, and we're not going to change > the values because someone comes up with a slightly better name. There > needs to be something fundamentally wrong or misleading before we > would even consider changing the name of a setting, and given that > these settings have been in the wild successfully for some time (I > think it's 4 years in the case of USE_I18N) you're not going to find > that here. I think the issue with USE_I18N is not so much that it's been kept, but that it was not expanded to cover USE_L10N's scope as well, with the ability to enable or disable each subsection of the domain (translations and localisation of value formats) added on top of that. I would have made more sense, to me, if USE_I18N enabled *all* of the relevant l10n, m17n and i18n machinery and if new processes in this field were added to the flag's purview as they were introduced, bringing a django project with USE_I18N enabled ever closer to full "effective" internationalization. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On 2011-07-29, at 05:56 , kenneth gonsalves wrote: > On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 09:37 -0700, Lucy Brennan wrote: >> Before I comment, I would like to actually know if I got it right. In >> Django: >> >> USE_I18N: translation >> USE_L10N: localized formatting >> >> Right? > > wrong That's not what the Django documentation says, at least in my reading of it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 12:58 +0800, Russell Keith-Magee wrote: > >> USE_I18N: translation > >> USE_L10N: localized formatting > >> > >> Right? > > > > wrong > > Ok - seriously, Kenneth - if you're not going to take the time to > provide a full answer (with sentences, capitalization and all the > trimmings), please refrain from answering at all. A single word > response doesn't contribute anything to the discussion, and just makes > the whole community seem rude. apologies - my LUG legacy still peeps out occasionally. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:56 AM, kenneth gonsalveswrote: > On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 09:37 -0700, Lucy Brennan wrote: >> Before I comment, I would like to actually know if I got it right. In >> Django: >> >> USE_I18N: translation >> USE_L10N: localized formatting >> >> Right? > > wrong Ok - seriously, Kenneth - if you're not going to take the time to provide a full answer (with sentences, capitalization and all the trimmings), please refrain from answering at all. A single word response doesn't contribute anything to the discussion, and just makes the whole community seem rude. Lucy: Although there are a lot of people that use L10N and I18N interchangeably, they are very distinct terms; any source you find that uses them interchangeably is categorically wrong. However, the two are very closely related, because localization usually happens in the presence of internationalization, and vice versa -- hence the common confusion. Although they share a Wikipedia page, if you read the rest of the page, you'll see they make a distinction between a localized system and an internationalized system. To a first approximation, your translation vs formatting dissection reflects Django's usage of the terms. I agree that Django's documentation doesn't do the best job at pointing out the distinction between the two (either in general, or in Django's interpretation. It would certainly be worth opening a ticket to point out this limitation of the existing docs. If you feel like contributing, producing a patch to Django's documentation to clarify the usage of i18n and l10n would be an excellent way to get involved. It has been my experience that newcomers often write the best high-level docs, because they're the people who don't have any preconceived ideas, so they know what isn't obvious, and what needs to be explained. To the rest of this thread: I want to head something off at the pass right now -- consider it a core-team decision that we're not going to rename these settings. I18n and L10n are well understood terms to anyone who has been dealing with adapting software to multiple languages and cultures reasonable descriptions of what Django does with the USE_I18N and USE_L10N settings, and we're not going to change the values because someone comes up with a slightly better name. There needs to be something fundamentally wrong or misleading before we would even consider changing the name of a setting, and given that these settings have been in the wild successfully for some time (I think it's 4 years in the case of USE_I18N) you're not going to find that here. Yours, Russ Magee %-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On 29/07/2011 1:56pm, kenneth gonsalves wrote: On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 09:37 -0700, Lucy Brennan wrote: Before I comment, I would like to actually know if I got it right. In Django: USE_I18N: translation USE_L10N: localized formatting Right? wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 09:37 -0700, Lucy Brennan wrote: > Before I comment, I would like to actually know if I got it right. In > Django: > > USE_I18N: translation > USE_L10N: localized formatting > > Right? wrong -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
Did anybody read the links I supplied. Or maybe you were busy plussing on Google+ :) So there seems to be two pairs of definitions for I18N / L10N: a) I18N / L10N ~ (building software so ready to be locale-language-customized / making a specific localized version ) b) I18N / L10N ~ (translation/localized formatting) When reading Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization). I understand the option a), and I don't think they mention that the terms can have different meanings. When reading Django's article https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/, I get exactly the same understanding. People in this thread talk about meaning b) as if it is a long established meaning and common knowledge. So I guess it is. But I did not find anything describing this meaning when I was trying to figure out what USE_L10N and USE_I18N meant. So if you are so certain that I18N / L10N are common knowledge for translation/localized formatting, I suggest that you add that knowledge to the abovementioned Wikipedia article and Django documentation article. Furthermore, the https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/settings/?from=olddocs#use-i18n, should not just say that it will "turn off the internationalization machinery", since that is not helpful unless "internationalization machinery" is defined. And come on, why not just add that this is translation. Lucy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-users/-/hcs0wCXkQ0EJ. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On 2011-07-28, at 18:37 , Lucy Brennan wrote: > Before I comment, I would like to actually know if I got it right. In > Django: > > USE_I18N: translation > USE_L10N: localized formatting > > Right? yes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
Before I comment, I would like to actually know if I got it right. In Django: USE_I18N: translation USE_L10N: localized formatting Right? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-users/-/bHE2JUNIyowJ. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On 28/07/2011 2:28, Lachlan Musicman wrote: > On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 16:53, kenneth gonsalves> wrote: >> On Tue, 2011-07-26 at 15:09 +0100, Tom Evans wrote: >>> I strongly disagree, i18n and l10n have explicit and well known >>> technical meanings, dating from the late 80s. It is right and proper >>> to use those names in django, as they are used in every other project >>> under the sun. >> >> +1 > > And mine makes it +2 > > > Just to add my 2 euro cents, I think both opinions have merit to some point but in the end, it's better to leave the technical terms as it forces the programmer to search more info on these topics to know what they mean. For a person with no experience with translations or internationalization, the terms don't mean a thing and aren't clear at all. A more technical person will however immediately recognize these names and know what they mean and how they work. However, you can argue that a programmer needs to check the background info on translation/internationalization before using it (which they should). If they do, they'll know the terms i18n and l10n, and that's the whole point. Cheers, Benedict -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 16:53, kenneth gonsalveswrote: > On Tue, 2011-07-26 at 15:09 +0100, Tom Evans wrote: >> I strongly disagree, i18n and l10n have explicit and well known >> technical meanings, dating from the late 80s. It is right and proper >> to use those names in django, as they are used in every other project >> under the sun. > > +1 And mine makes it +2 -- The butter lamb, also known as a buttered lamb, is a traditional butter sculpture accompanying the Easter meal for many Slovenian and Polish Catholics. Butter is shaped into a lamb either by hand or in a lamb-shaped mould. Frequently the eyes are represented by peppercorns and a white banner with a red cross on a toothpick is placed on its back. (via http://bestofwikipedia.tumblr.com/ ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Tue, 2011-07-26 at 15:09 +0100, Tom Evans wrote: > I strongly disagree, i18n and l10n have explicit and well known > technical meanings, dating from the late 80s. It is right and proper > to use those names in django, as they are used in every other project > under the sun. +1 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Andre Terrawrote: > On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 5:17 AM, Lucy Brennan > wrote: >> >> (...) >> >> For both the USE_L10N and USE_I18N their effect is not obvious from >> their naming. I suggest, that the description of these parameters in >> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/settings/?from=olddocs are >> made more precise. >> >> From what I understand, they should have had names like >> USE_TRANSLATION and USE_LOCALIZED_FORMATTING. > > +1 on that. Actually, I'd +over 9000 if I had the power. > > > Cheers, > AT > I strongly disagree, i18n and l10n have explicit and well known technical meanings, dating from the late 80s. It is right and proper to use those names in django, as they are used in every other project under the sun. Cheers Tom -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 5:17 AM, Lucy Brennanwrote: > > (...) > > For both the USE_L10N and USE_I18N their effect is not obvious from > their naming. I suggest, that the description of these parameters in > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/settings/?from=olddocs are > made more precise. > > From what I understand, they should have had names like > USE_TRANSLATION and USE_LOCALIZED_FORMATTING. > +1 on that. Actually, I'd +over 9000 if I had the power. Cheers, AT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
Sorry for the late response to your reply. For some reason, I did not get your response to my email. I only saw your answer because I went to the online archive. Here is a follow up for the googlers. I have read the Django documentation, e.g.: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/i18n/, which in my opinion says just about the same as Wikipedia, regarding the meaning of those two words. The Internationalization article (https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/ dev/topics/i18n/internationalization/), explains about internationalization in Django, but does not explain what it means to disable/enable it. I guess that disabling internationalization means disabling translation. The Localization article (https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/ i18n/internationalization/), explains about Localization in Django, and mentions in short about the USE_L10N parameter. Apparently it decides if localized formatting of e.g. dates should be used. For both the USE_L10N and USE_I18N their effect is not obvious from their naming. I suggest, that the description of these parameters in https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/settings/?from=olddocs are made more precise. >From what I understand, they should have had names like USE_TRANSLATION and USE_LOCALIZED_FORMATTING. Lucy On Jul 18, 1:36 pm, Shawn Milochikwrote: > If you look up those terms in the Django docs instead of Wikipedia I think > that will erase your confusion. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
If you look up those terms in the Django docs instead of Wikipedia I think that will erase your confusion. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
USE_I18N vs. USE_L10N
I believe I understand the general definitions of internationalization and localization, e.g. as defined on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization. Internationalization is somewhat like building/designing a piece of software for being used with different locales. And localization is then making some localized version withing the boundaries set by the , e.g. making all the translated versions and date formatting for Germany. According to those definitions, I think it makes sense to "turn off i18n and l10n". But what does it mean to turn of one and not the other? They only make sense in relation to each other, and turning one of without turning the other off, does not make sense to me. I don't think it is obvious what they do? Lucy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.