Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[Jim Brown]

On 9/23/2018 11:46 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
Since this is for 6m which kind of considered VHF, then use of a 
sequencer should be considered.


By definition, 6M is VHF, which is defined as 30-300 MHz.

The need TX delay/sequencing is related to relay switching times, NOT 
operating frequency. The relationship to VHF/UHF has to do with slow 
relays in equipment like power amps and mast-mounted preamps.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[John Stengrevics]

Thanks Ed, I have Jim’s control board in the amp.  Just trying to figure out 
the connections.

John
WA1EAZ

> On Sep 24, 2018, at 2:46 AM, Edward R Cole  wrote:
> 
> Since this is for 6m which kind of considered VHF, then use of a sequencer 
> should be considered.  With either K3 or K3S the last stage of the sequencer 
> can control TX INHIBIT control line of the K3/K3S which will delay RF output 
> into the PA until after LNA and TR relay switching has occurred.  W6PQL sells 
> both an amplifier control board with sequencing or separate sequencer:
> http://www.w6pql.com/v63control.htm
> http://www.w6pql.com/relay_sequencer.htm
> or from DEMI:
> http://01895fa.netsolhost.com/PDF/LTRS_PD.pdf
> 
> See:  http://www.kl7uw.com/TX-INHIBIT.htm
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
> dubus...@gmail.com 
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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[Edward R Cole]

Since this is for 6m which kind of considered VHF, then use of a 
sequencer should be considered.  With either K3 or K3S the last stage 
of the sequencer can control TX INHIBIT control line of the K3/K3S 
which will delay RF output into the PA until after LNA and TR relay 
switching has occurred.  W6PQL sells both an amplifier control board 
with sequencing or separate sequencer:

http://www.w6pql.com/v63control.htm
http://www.w6pql.com/relay_sequencer.htm
or from DEMI:
http://01895fa.netsolhost.com/PDF/LTRS_PD.pdf

See:  http://www.kl7uw.com/TX-INHIBIT.htm

73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[Peter Torry via Elecraft]

Hi John,

The acc cable is used to convey the control signal from the sequencer to 
the K3 so that the TX INH will inhibit the K3 when configured correctly 
and can be used whether or not the band is built in or not.  It may be 
possible to use the ALC output from the sequencer dependent upon its 
level and polarity  but I do not know how that is configured.  If you 
read the section in the manual that describes the inhibit and compare it 
with the sequencer output you should be able to arrange it correctly.


73

Peter

G3SMT


On 23/09/2018 22:03, John Stengrevics wrote:

Hi Peter,

I appreciate what you are saying, but I have no use for an ACC cable.  The K3S 
has 6 meters built in.

I am using the W6PQL amp with the control board.  But, the control board has to 
connect to ALC on the transceiver.  The K3S has no ALC jack.

I have asked Jim, W6PQL, if setting the TX DELAY to 20 milliseconds will 
provide enough time for relays to switch.

73,

John
WA1EAZ


On Sep 23, 2018, at 5:58 PM, Peter Torry  wrote:

Hi John,

Pin 7 of the Acc connector is the transmit inhibit input that is enabled in the 
config menu.  That is the only way to ensure that the K3 remains in Rx until 
the sequencer has completed its cycle. I use this with all my transverters and 
LNAs to ensure their correct sequencing.

It is described in both the manual and the F Caddy book.

As you are using the PQL amplifier I assume that you are also using the PQL 
control board V6 that has an output that may be used for this purpose, just 
check the polarity of the output as it may need inverting.

Good luck with your project

73

Peter

G3SMT



On 23/09/2018 19:54, John Stengrevics wrote:

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the reply.  But, what would I be using an ACC cable for?

73,

John
WA1EAZ


On Sep 23, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Peter Torry  wrote:

Hi John,

I agree with Don's comments as I use a K3 with an amplifier and an LNA in a 
similar configuration to yourself.  I would never use ALC under any 
circumstances to avoid radiating a poor signal. To protect the LNA I use a 
signal from the sequencer in the amplifier to inhibit the K3 from transmitting 
until the sequencer has done its stuff.  Setting the delay on the K3 still 
leaves you at risk as 20ms is too short a time for all the relays to operate 
satisfactorily.  Use pin7 on the acc connector as detailed in the manual on 
transverter control - TX INH.

73

Peter

G3SMT


On 23/09/2018 15:29, John Stengrevics wrote:

Hi Don,

That was timely as I just got off Skype with Jim, W6PQL.  He mentioned that the 
ALC should be held high for some milliseconds to allow for the amp’s relays to 
switch over thereby protecting the LNA.

Since the K3S works differently than most, he suggested that I look for an RF 
Hold-Off setting on the K3S and set it for around 50 milliseconds.  That being 
said, I don’t see that in the manual or in Fred’s book.  Any suggestions?

73,

John
WA1EAZ


On Sep 23, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

John,

I do not understand how the amplifier or the ALC could protect the LNA.
I assume the LNA is only used on receive, so if you have good sequencing 
between receive and transmit, no damage could occur.
ALC is only applicable to transmit, and Elecraft does not recommend using ALC 
to limit the drive to the amplifier.  Set the power to the amp properly and all 
will be well.
Using ALC to control the exciter power is a bad way to do things, it will only 
lead to distortion and spurious emissions from the amplifier.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/23/2018 10:58 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:

My apologies - I should have added that I am using a Downeast Microwave DTR 
relay to take the LNA out of the line when voltage applied to the relay drops 
as a result of transmission.

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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[Jim Brown]

On 9/23/2018 1:35 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

The KPA500 doesn't work that way so I'd be surprised if the KPA1500 did.


Some amps have more protection than others. Some have none. :)

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[Jim Brown]

On 9/23/2018 8:12 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Using ALC to control the exciter power is a bad way to do things, it 
will only lead to distortion and spurious emissions from the amplifier.


RIGHT! The ONLY good use of ALC between rig and amp is to protect the 
amp from a failure in the antenna system. To do that, set output power 
from the rig to get the desired output level.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[John Stengrevics]

Hi Don,

Ordinarily, the W6PQL amp’s control board does this via ALC on the exciter.  
But, since that is not an option with the K3S, setting TX DELAY on the K3S to 
20 milliseconds should do the trick.  That is what Jim, W6PQL, suggested I do.

I have been using the W6PQL amp with the K3S without any problems heretofore.

73,

John
WA1EAZ

> On Sep 23, 2018, at 12:17 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
> There is TX Inhibit that will prevent RF from the K3 until that signal is 
> dropped.
> Of course, it requires a signal from the amplifier or sequencer to indicate 
> that it is ready for RF.
> 
> Trying to use ALC for that purpose is not a good idea.
> Does the amplifier control the high on ALC, or is that left to the exciter to 
> implement?
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 9/23/2018 11:29 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:
>> Hi Don,
>> 
>> That was timely as I just got off Skype with Jim, W6PQL.  He mentioned that 
>> the ALC should be held high for some milliseconds to allow for the amp’s 
>> relays to switch over thereby protecting the LNA.
>> 
>> Since the K3S works differently than most, he suggested that I look for an 
>> RF Hold-Off setting on the K3S and set it for around 50 milliseconds.  That 
>> being said, I don’t see that in the manual or in Fred’s book.  Any 
>> suggestions?
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> John
>> WA1EAZ
>> 
>>> On Sep 23, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>>> 
>>> John,
>>> 
>>> I do not understand how the amplifier or the ALC could protect the LNA.
>>> I assume the LNA is only used on receive, so if you have good sequencing 
>>> between receive and transmit, no damage could occur.
>>> ALC is only applicable to transmit, and Elecraft does not recommend using 
>>> ALC to limit the drive to the amplifier.  Set the power to the amp properly 
>>> and all will be well.
>>> Using ALC to control the exciter power is a bad way to do things, it will 
>>> only lead to distortion and spurious emissions from the amplifier.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>> 
>>> On 9/23/2018 10:58 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:
 My apologies - I should have added that I am using a Downeast Microwave 
 DTR relay to take the LNA out of the line when voltage applied to the 
 relay drops as a result of transmission.
>> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[Don Wilhelm]

John,

There is TX Inhibit that will prevent RF from the K3 until that signal 
is dropped.
Of course, it requires a signal from the amplifier or sequencer to 
indicate that it is ready for RF.


Trying to use ALC for that purpose is not a good idea.
Does the amplifier control the high on ALC, or is that left to the 
exciter to implement?


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/23/2018 11:29 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:

Hi Don,

That was timely as I just got off Skype with Jim, W6PQL.  He mentioned that the 
ALC should be held high for some milliseconds to allow for the amp’s relays to 
switch over thereby protecting the LNA.

Since the K3S works differently than most, he suggested that I look for an RF 
Hold-Off setting on the K3S and set it for around 50 milliseconds.  That being 
said, I don’t see that in the manual or in Fred’s book.  Any suggestions?

73,

John
WA1EAZ


On Sep 23, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

John,

I do not understand how the amplifier or the ALC could protect the LNA.
I assume the LNA is only used on receive, so if you have good sequencing 
between receive and transmit, no damage could occur.
ALC is only applicable to transmit, and Elecraft does not recommend using ALC 
to limit the drive to the amplifier.  Set the power to the amp properly and all 
will be well.
Using ALC to control the exciter power is a bad way to do things, it will only 
lead to distortion and spurious emissions from the amplifier.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/23/2018 10:58 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:

My apologies - I should have added that I am using a Downeast Microwave DTR 
relay to take the LNA out of the line when voltage applied to the relay drops 
as a result of transmission.




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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[John Stengrevics]

Hi John,

Aha!  I see that now.  OK, I will follow the instruction in Fred’s book to set 
this.

Thanks & 73,

John
WA1EAZ

> On Sep 23, 2018, at 11:53 AM, John Simmons  wrote:
> 
> I think it is called TX DELAY. I know the setting is in there.
> 
> -John NI0K
> 
> John Stengrevics wrote on 9/23/2018 10:29 AM:
>> Hi Don,
>> 
>> That was timely as I just got off Skype with Jim, W6PQL.  He mentioned that 
>> the ALC should be held high for some milliseconds to allow for the amp’s 
>> relays to switch over thereby protecting the LNA.
>> 
>> Since the K3S works differently than most, he suggested that I look for an 
>> RF Hold-Off setting on the K3S and set it for around 50 milliseconds.  That 
>> being said, I don’t see that in the manual or in Fred’s book.  Any 
>> suggestions?
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> John
>> WA1EAZ
>> 
>>> On Sep 23, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>>> 
>>> John,
>>> 
>>> I do not understand how the amplifier or the ALC could protect the LNA.
>>> I assume the LNA is only used on receive, so if you have good sequencing 
>>> between receive and transmit, no damage could occur.
>>> ALC is only applicable to transmit, and Elecraft does not recommend using 
>>> ALC to limit the drive to the amplifier.  Set the power to the amp properly 
>>> and all will be well.
>>> Using ALC to control the exciter power is a bad way to do things, it will 
>>> only lead to distortion and spurious emissions from the amplifier.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>> 
>>> On 9/23/2018 10:58 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:
 My apologies - I should have added that I am using a Downeast Microwave 
 DTR relay to take the LNA out of the line when voltage applied to the 
 relay drops as a result of transmission.
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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[John Simmons]

I think it is called TX DELAY. I know the setting is in there.

-John NI0K

John Stengrevics wrote on 9/23/2018 10:29 AM:

Hi Don,

That was timely as I just got off Skype with Jim, W6PQL.  He mentioned that the 
ALC should be held high for some milliseconds to allow for the amp’s relays to 
switch over thereby protecting the LNA.

Since the K3S works differently than most, he suggested that I look for an RF 
Hold-Off setting on the K3S and set it for around 50 milliseconds.  That being 
said, I don’t see that in the manual or in Fred’s book.  Any suggestions?

73,

John
WA1EAZ


On Sep 23, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

John,

I do not understand how the amplifier or the ALC could protect the LNA.
I assume the LNA is only used on receive, so if you have good sequencing 
between receive and transmit, no damage could occur.
ALC is only applicable to transmit, and Elecraft does not recommend using ALC 
to limit the drive to the amplifier.  Set the power to the amp properly and all 
will be well.
Using ALC to control the exciter power is a bad way to do things, it will only 
lead to distortion and spurious emissions from the amplifier.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/23/2018 10:58 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:

My apologies - I should have added that I am using a Downeast Microwave DTR 
relay to take the LNA out of the line when voltage applied to the relay drops 
as a result of transmission.

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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[John Stengrevics]

Hi Don,

That was timely as I just got off Skype with Jim, W6PQL.  He mentioned that the 
ALC should be held high for some milliseconds to allow for the amp’s relays to 
switch over thereby protecting the LNA.

Since the K3S works differently than most, he suggested that I look for an RF 
Hold-Off setting on the K3S and set it for around 50 milliseconds.  That being 
said, I don’t see that in the manual or in Fred’s book.  Any suggestions?

73,

John
WA1EAZ

> On Sep 23, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
> I do not understand how the amplifier or the ALC could protect the LNA.
> I assume the LNA is only used on receive, so if you have good sequencing 
> between receive and transmit, no damage could occur.
> ALC is only applicable to transmit, and Elecraft does not recommend using ALC 
> to limit the drive to the amplifier.  Set the power to the amp properly and 
> all will be well.
> Using ALC to control the exciter power is a bad way to do things, it will 
> only lead to distortion and spurious emissions from the amplifier.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 9/23/2018 10:58 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:
>> My apologies - I should have added that I am using a Downeast Microwave DTR 
>> relay to take the LNA out of the line when voltage applied to the relay 
>> drops as a result of transmission.

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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[Don Wilhelm]

John,

I do not understand how the amplifier or the ALC could protect the LNA.
I assume the LNA is only used on receive, so if you have good sequencing 
between receive and transmit, no damage could occur.
ALC is only applicable to transmit, and Elecraft does not recommend 
using ALC to limit the drive to the amplifier.  Set the power to the amp 
properly and all will be well.
Using ALC to control the exciter power is a bad way to do things, it 
will only lead to distortion and spurious emissions from the amplifier.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/23/2018 10:58 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:

My apologies - I should have added that I am using a Downeast Microwave DTR 
relay to take the LNA out of the line when voltage applied to the relay drops 
as a result of transmission.


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Re: [Elecraft] Using A 6 Meter LNA & Amplifier with the K3S

[John Stengrevics]

My apologies - I should have added that I am using a Downeast Microwave DTR 
relay to take the LNA out of the line when voltage applied to the relay drops 
as a result of transmission.

73,

John
WA1EAZ
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