date:20150721

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . 
wrote:

> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the automated
> and managed flow of information between systems."
>
> I dont see any such on project website -
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> .
> You might want to correct it.
>

Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.


>
> Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding the
> description
>
> Thanks
> Amareshwari
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Apache Incubator,
> >
> > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> consensus
> > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > graduation to TLP.
> >
> > Vote thread:
> >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >
> > Summary of the vote results:
> > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >
> >1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >14. Milap Wadwa
> >
> > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >
> > Below is our proposed resolution:
> >
> > Thank you
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >
> > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > information between systems.
>

Should be:

-
"related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and transacting
on large-scale data sets in real-time"
 

>
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > Foundation; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > between systems and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > Apache Ignite Project:
> >
> > Semyon Boikov (sboi...@apache.org)
> > Konstantin Boudnik (c...@apache.org)
> > Branko Čibej (br...@apache.org)
> > Ognen Duzlevski (mak...@apache.org)
> > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdoki...@apache.org)
> > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncha...@apache.org)
> > Nikita Ivanov (nivano...@apache.org)
> > Sergey Khisamov (s...@apache.org)
> > Valentin Kulichenko (vkuliche...@apache.org)
> > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznet...@apache.org)
> > Gianfranco Murador (mura...@apache.org)
> > Andrey Novikov (anovi...@apache.org)
> > Vladimir Ozerov (voze...@apache.org)
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrak...@apache.org)
> > Roman Shaposhnik (r...@apache.org)
> > Ilya Sterin (iste...@apache.org)
> > Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikho...@apache.org)
> > Irina Vasilinets (ivasilin...@apache.org)
> > Anton Vinogradov (a...@apache.org)
> > Sergey Vladykin (svlady...@apache.org)
> > Evans Ye (evan...@apache.org)
> > Yakov Zhdanov (yzhda...@apache.org)
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> > direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > disqualifica

Re: Kylin mentor

Hi Luke,

I’d be willing to act as a mentor to Kylin.

If that’s okay with the Kylin community, let me know and I’ll update 
appropriate files.

-Taylor

> On Jul 21, 2015, at 3:13 AM, Luke Han  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Julian to step up, as previous advisor, you already give us a lot of
> help and guide.
> Really appreciated to be Apache Kylin's official mentor.
> 
> If anyone else would like to help us, please also leave message here.
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> Luke
> 
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> 
>> Done. Thanks.
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 2:02 PM, Marvin Humphrey 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
 The Kylin project has said that they would like more mentors. I have
>> been mentoring unofficially for a while, and am happy to become an official
>> mentor. I am already an IPMC member.
>>> 
>>> Sounds great!
>>> 
>>> There's no formal process for adding Mentors beyond gauging the
>>> consent of the podling community.  Please add yourself as a Kylin
>>> Mentor to...
>>> 
>>> *   content/podlings.xml
>>> *   content/projects/kylin.xml
>>> 
>>> Marvin Humphrey
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> 



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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
(Gridgrain).

Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and independece?

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan 
wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . 
> wrote:
>
> > Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the automated
> > and managed flow of information between systems."
> >
> > I dont see any such on project website -
> > http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > .
> > You might want to correct it.
> >
>
> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>
>
> >
> > Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding the
> > description
> >
> > Thanks
> > Amareshwari
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> dsetrak...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Apache Incubator,
> > >
> > > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> > consensus
> > > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > > graduation to TLP.
> > >
> > > Vote thread:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > >
> > > Summary of the vote results:
> > > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > >
> > >1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > >2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > >3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > >4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > >5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > >6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > >7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > >8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > >9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > >10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > >11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > >12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > >13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > >14. Milap Wadwa
> > >
> > > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> > > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > >
> > > Below is our proposed resolution:
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> > >
> > > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > > information between systems.
> >
>
> Should be:
>
> -
> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and transacting
> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>  
>
> >
> > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > Foundation; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > > between systems and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> > > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > > Apache Ignite Project:
> > >
> > > Semyon Boikov (sboi...@apache.org)
> > > Konstantin Boudnik (c...@apache.org)
> > > Branko Čibej (br...@apache.org)
> > > Ognen Duzlevski (mak...@apache.org)
> > > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdoki...@apache.org)
> > > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncha...@apache.org)
> > > Nikita Ivanov (nivano...@apache.org)
> > > Sergey Khisamov (s...@apache.org)
> > > Valentin Kulichenko (vkuliche...@apache.org)
> > > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznet...@apache.org)
> > > Gianfranco Murador (mura...@apache.org)
> > > Andrey Novikov (anovi...@apache.org)
> > > Vladimir Ozerov (voze...@apache.org)
> > > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrak...@apache.org)
> > > Roman Shaposhnik (r...@apache

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Twill-0.6.0-incubating

2015-07-21 Thread Henry Saputra

Signature file looks good
Hash files look good
LICENSE file looks good
NOTICE file looks good
DISCLAIMER file exist
Source compiled and passed tests

+1 (binding)

Good job guys

- Henry



On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:36 AM, Terence Yim  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> This is to call for a vote on releasing Apache Twill 0.6.0-incubating.
> This is the seventh release for Twill.
>
> Apache Twill is an abstraction over Apache Hadoop YARN that reduces
> the complexity of developing distributed applications.
>
> Vote on twill-dev:
> http://s.apache.org/ABI
>
> Result on vote on twill-dev:
> http://s.apache.org/Hk4
>
> The source tarball, including signatures, digests, etc. can be found at:
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/twill/0.6.0-incubating-rc2/src
>
> The tag to be voted upon is v0.6.0-incubating:
> https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-twill.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/tags/v0.6.0-incubating
>
> The release hash is 518cc1a24c1ae29e46b58debe0f1a177d1589321:
> https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-twill.git;a=commit;h=518cc1a24c1ae29e46b58debe0f1a177d1589321
>
> The Nexus Staging URL:
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachetwill-1017
>
> Release artifacts are signed with the following key:
> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/chtyim.asc
>
> KEYS file available:
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/twill/KEYS
>
> For information about the contents of this release, see:
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/twill/0.6.0-incubating-rc1/CHANGES.txt
>
> Please vote on releasing this package as Apache Twill 0.6.0-incubating
>
> The vote will be open for 72 hours.
>
> [ ] +1 Release this package as Apache Twill 0.6.0-incubating
> [ ] +0 no opinion
> [ ] -1 Do not release this package because ...
>
> Thanks,
> The Apache Twill Team
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>

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[RESULT] [VOTE] Apache Ignite 1.3.0 release (RC2)

2015-07-21 Thread Yakov Zhdanov

Hello!

Apache Ignite 1.3.0 release (RC2) has been accepted.

Here are the votes received:

   - Justin Mclean (binding)
   - Konstantin Boudnik (binding)
   - Branko Cibej (binding)
   - Sergey Khisamov
   - Nick Tikhonov
   - Ira Vasilinets
   - Semyon Boikov
   - Alex Kuznetsov
   - Yakov Zhdanov

Thanks!

--Yakov

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Zeppelin (incubating) 0.5.0-incubating

2015-07-21 Thread Henry Saputra

Thanks to Justin for his thorough review, as always.

I have pinged back the Apache Zeppelin community to see if we could
quickly address the issue.

- Henry

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 9:58 PM, Edward J. Yoon  wrote:
>> Has the author of 
>> zeppelin-server/src/test/java/com/webautomation/ScreenCaptureHtmlUnitDriver.java
>>  signed a ICLA?
>
> It looks like came from Selenium community -
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/selenium-developers/Ivan$20Vasiliev$20%7Csort:relevance/selenium-developers/PTR_j4xLVRM/k2yVq01Fa7oJ
>
> If license header can't be attached discretionally by a third party, I
> don't think this can be included. -1 (binding) I think it'd be nice to
> fix every LICENSE and NOTICE issues.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Justin Mclean  
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> +1 binding
>>
>> Please fix the LICENSE/NOTICE issues are fixed for next release. Given 
>> everything involved is Apache comparable it's more a documentation issue but 
>> still important to get right. If you need a hand or need it reviewed before 
>> your next release just ask.
>>
>> The LICENSE/NOTICE issues and missing DISCLAIMER from the binary files is 
>> more serious and IMO they shouldn’t be released but I’ll leave that up to 
>> the PMC/IPMC.
>>
>> I checked:
>> - signatures and hashes good
>> - incubating in source file
>> - DISCLAIMER exists
>> - LICENSE isn’t correct (see below)
>> - NOTICE also has issues (see below)
>> - All source has apache headers (except one)
>> - No unexpected binary files
>> - Can compile from source
>>
>> LICENSE and NOTICE issues
>> - LICENSE states "Copyright 2014, NFLabs inc.” when it should be ASF and 
>> specified in the NOTICE file.
>> - NOTICE contains Font Awesome (SIL + MIT), Ace (BSD), Simple line icons 
>> (MIT) but there is no need for these to be in NOTICE [1]
>> - LICENSE should contain things mentioned in NOTICE [1]
>> - Has the author of  
>> zeppelin-server/src/test/java/com/webautomation/ScreenCaptureHtmlUnitDriver.java
>>  signed a ICLA? I notice it’s missing a header and it’s not 100% clear to me 
>> what it’s licensing is.
>>
>> For the binary release:
>> - Missing NOTICE and DISCLAIMER from top level directory
>> - Unadorned LICENSE and NOTICE in META_INF or jar and war so not correct, 
>> please see [2]. There's several NOTICE files in the libs jars that would 
>> have an impact on the binary NOTICE file [3]
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>>
>> 1. http://www.apache.org/dev/licensing-howto.html#permissive-deps
>> 2. http://www.apache.org/dev/licensing-howto.html#binary
>> 3. http://www.apache.org/dev/licensing-howto.html#alv2-dep
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards, Edward J. Yoon
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>

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Re: [RESULT] [VOTE] Apache Ignite 1.3.0 release (RC2)

2015-07-21 Thread Anton Vinogradov

Apache Ignite 1.3.0 released.
Maven artifacts released, sources and convenience binaries moved to
svn/~/release, site updated.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Yakov Zhdanov  wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Apache Ignite 1.3.0 release (RC2) has been accepted.
>
> Here are the votes received:
>
>- Justin Mclean (binding)
>- Konstantin Boudnik (binding)
>- Branko Cibej (binding)
>- Sergey Khisamov
>- Nick Tikhonov
>- Ira Vasilinets
>- Semyon Boikov
>- Alex Kuznetsov
>- Yakov Zhdanov
>
> Thanks!
>
> --Yakov
>

Re: [NOTICE] Yetus TLP proposal

2015-07-21 Thread Sean Busbey

Added. Thanks for the suggestion David.

On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 11:57 AM, David Nalley  wrote:

> Please consider using commits@ - that's a well known design pattern
> that is used pervasively.
>
> If you need notifications@ in addition, that's okay too, but there are
> lots of things that assume commits@
>
> --David
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Sean Busbey  wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Henry Saputra 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> What is the "notificati...@yetus.apache.org" list for?
> >>
> >> - Henry
> >>
> >>
> > internal build notifications, commits to git. basically all the automated
> > message stuff.
> >
> > --
> > Sean
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Sean

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
to look it up in the archives MessageId is 
73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):

[quote]
There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
and I have no cycles to spare.

A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
[/quote]

Regards,
  Cos

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> (Gridgrain).
> 
> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and independece?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the automated
> > > and managed flow of information between systems."
> > >
> > > I dont see any such on project website -
> > > http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > > Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> > >
> > >
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > .
> > > You might want to correct it.
> > >
> >
> > Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding the
> > > description
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Amareshwari
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > dsetrak...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Apache Incubator,
> > > >
> > > > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> > > consensus
> > > > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > > > graduation to TLP.
> > > >
> > > > Vote thread:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > > >
> > > > Summary of the vote results:
> > > > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > > >
> > > >1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > > >2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > > >3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > > >4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > > >5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > > >6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > > >7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > > >8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > > >9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > > >10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > > >11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > > >12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > > >13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > > >14. Milap Wadwa
> > > >
> > > > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> > > > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > > >
> > > > Below is our proposed resolution:
> > > >
> > > > Thank you
> > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> > > >
> > > > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > > >
> > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > > > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > > > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > > > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > > > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > > > information between systems.
> > >
> >
> > Should be:
> >
> > -
> > "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> > integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and transacting
> > on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >  
> >
> > >
> > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > > Foundation; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > > > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > > > between systems and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > > > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > > > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > > > of the Apache Ign

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

Actually, given that this project was a spin-out of an internal project,
this is a stunningly low number to have achieved so quickly (assuming that
the 37% are actually active, that is).

Kudos.

+1


On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . 
wrote:

> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the automated
> and managed flow of information between systems."
>
> I dont see any such on project website -
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> .
> You might want to correct it.
>
> Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding the
> description
>
> Thanks
> Amareshwari
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Apache Incubator,
> >
> > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> consensus
> > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > graduation to TLP.
> >
> > Vote thread:
> >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >
> > Summary of the vote results:
> > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >
> >1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >14. Milap Wadwa
> >
> > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >
> > Below is our proposed resolution:
> >
> > Thank you
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >
> > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > information between systems.
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > Foundation; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > between systems and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > Apache Ignite Project:
> >
> > Semyon Boikov (sboi...@apache.org)
> > Konstantin Boudnik (c...@apache.org)
> > Branko Čibej (br...@apache.org)
> > Ognen Duzlevski (mak...@apache.org)
> > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdoki...@apache.org)
> > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncha...@apache.org)
> > Nikita Ivanov (nivano...@apache.org)
> > Sergey Khisamov (s...@apache.org)
> > Valentin Kulichenko (vkuliche...@apache.org)
> > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznet...@apache.org)
> > Gianfranco Murador (mura...@apache.org)
> > Andrey Novikov (anovi...@apache.org)
> > Vladimir Ozerov (voze...@apache.org)
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrak...@apache.org)
> > Roman Shaposhnik (r...@apache.org)
> > Ilya Sterin (iste...@apache.org)
> > Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikho...@apache.org)
> > Irina Vasilinets (ivasilin...@apache.org)
> > Anton Vinogradov (a...@apache.org)
> > Sergey Vladykin (svlady...@apache.org)
> > Evans Ye (evan...@apache.org)
> > Yakov Zhdanov (yzhda...@apache.org)
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> > direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> > and be it further
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
nowhere.

If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
regarding healthiness.

Best regards,


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik  wrote:

> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
>
> [quote]
> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> and I have no cycles to spare.
>
> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> [/quote]
>
> Regards,
>   Cos
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> > (Gridgrain).
> >
> > Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and independece?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> dsetrak...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> amareshw...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> automated
> > > > and managed flow of information between systems."
> > > >
> > > > I dont see any such on project website -
> > > > http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > > > Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > > .
> > > > You might want to correct it.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding the
> > > > description
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Amareshwari
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > > dsetrak...@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Apache Incubator,
> > > > >
> > > > > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> > > > consensus
> > > > > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > > > > graduation to TLP.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vote thread:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Summary of the vote results:
> > > > > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > > > >
> > > > >1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > > > >2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > > > >3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > > > >4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > > > >5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > > > >6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > > > >7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > > > >8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > > > >9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > > > >10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > > > >11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > > > >12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > > > >13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > > > >14. Milap Wadwa
> > > > >
> > > > > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> consensus
> > > > > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > > > >
> > > > > Below is our proposed resolution:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you
> > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> > > > >
> > > > > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > > > >
> > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > > > > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > > > > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > > > > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > > > > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > > > > information between systems.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Should be:
> > >
> > > -
> > > "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a hig

[NOTICE] Lens VOTEing for graduation

2015-07-21 Thread Jakob Homan

FYI,  Lens is currently VOTEing on a graduation resolution following
successful discussions thereof.

-Jakob

-- Forwarded message --
From: Jakob Homan 
Date: 21 July 2015 at 13:27
Subject: [VOTE] Graduate Lens from Incubator
To: d...@lens.incubator.apache.org

Following two positive discussions[1][2] regarding Lens' current
status, I'm calling a VOTE to graduate the project from the Incubator
to TLP status.  After this VOTE succeeds, its resolution will be
forwarded to the Incubator list for another VOTE, after which the
resolution will be sent to the Board for consideration at its next
meeting.  I've removed myself and Chris Douglas (checked with him
offline), now that our roles as mentors have finished and we've not
been involved otherwise with the community.

The vote will run for 72 hours, ending 2pm PST July 24th.  Everyone in
the Lens community is invited and encouraged to vote, although only
PPMC votes are binding

[ ] +1 Graduate Apache Lens from the Incubator.
[ ] +0 Don't care.
[ ] -1 Don't graduate Apache Lens from the Incubator because ...

Here's my binding vote: +1.

-Jakob

[1] http://s.apache.org/LensGradDiscuss1
[2] http://s.apache.org/LensGradDiscuss2

 Apache Lens graduation resolution draft
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests of
the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to establish
a Project Management Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
of open-source software, for distribution at no charge to the public,
related to unified analytics across multiple tiered data stores.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee
(PMC), to be known as the "Apache Lens Project", be and hereby is
established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the Apache Lens Project be and hereby is responsible
for the creation and maintenance of software related to unified analytics
across multiple tiered data stores; and be it further RESOLVED, that the
office of "Vice President, Apache Lens" be and hereby is created, the
person holding such office to serve at the direction of the Board of
Directors as the chair of the Apache Lens Project, and to have primary
responsibility for management of the projects within the scope of
responsibility of the Apache Lens Project; and be it further RESOLVED,
that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are appointed to
serve as the initial members of the Apache Lens Project:

* Amareshwari Sriramadasu 
* Arshad Matin 
* Gunther Hagleitner 
* Himanshu Gahlaut 
* Jaideep Dhok 
* Jean Baptiste Onofre 
* Raghavendra Singh 
* Rajat Khandelwal 
* Raju Bairishetti 
* Sharad Agarwal 
* Sreekanth Ramakrishnan 
* Srikanth Sundarrajan 
* Suma Shivaprasad 
* Vikram Dixit 
* Vinod Kumar Vavilapalli 
* Yash Sharma 

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Amareshwari Sriramadasu
be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Lens, to serve in
accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors
and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement,
removal or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be
it further

RESOLVED, that the Apache Lens Project be and hereby is tasked with
the migration and rationalization of the Apache Incubator Lens
podling; and be it further

RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache Incubator
Lens podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator Project are
hereafter discharged.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.

What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
understand how to make releases and are building community.



On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> nowhere.
>
> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> regarding healthiness.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
> wrote:
>
> > The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> > number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> > 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> > to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> > 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> >
> > [quote]
> > There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> > requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> > We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> > diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> > out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> > I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> > and I have no cycles to spare.
> >
> > A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> > status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> > create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> > [/quote]
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Cos
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > > It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> > > (Gridgrain).
> > >
> > > Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> independece?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Pierre Smits
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > dsetrak...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> > amareshw...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> > automated
> > > > > and managed flow of information between systems."
> > > > >
> > > > > I dont see any such on project website -
> > > > > http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > > > > Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > > > .
> > > > > You might want to correct it.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding
> the
> > > > > description
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Amareshwari
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > > > dsetrak...@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Apache Incubator,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> > > > > consensus
> > > > > > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > > > > > graduation to TLP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vote thread:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Summary of the vote results:
> > > > > > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > > > > >
> > > > > >1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > > > > >2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > > > > >3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > > > > >4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > > > > >5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > > > > >6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > > > > >7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > > > > >8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > > > > >9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > > > > >10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > > > > >11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > > > > >12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > > > > >13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > > > > >14. Milap Wadwa
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> > consensus
> > > > > > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Below is our proposed resolution:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:30PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> nowhere.

Or, I didn't know that unique message Id isn't enough nowadays. Here's the
easier link for your convenience ;)

http://markmail.org/message/5l5hsygvntcx5fqb

with the link to the overarching thread

http://apache.markmail.org/message/5l5hsygvntcx5fqb?q=flume+diversity+list:org%2Eapache%2Eincubator%2Egeneral+from:+%22Roy%22

Cos

> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> regarding healthiness.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik  wrote:
> 
> > The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> > number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> > 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> > to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> > 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> >
> > [quote]
> > There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> > requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> > We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> > diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> > out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> > I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> > and I have no cycles to spare.
> >
> > A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> > status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> > create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> > [/quote]
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Cos
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > > It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> > > (Gridgrain).
> > >
> > > Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and independece?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Pierre Smits
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > dsetrak...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> > amareshw...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> > automated
> > > > > and managed flow of information between systems."
> > > > >
> > > > > I dont see any such on project website -
> > > > > http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > > > > Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > > > .
> > > > > You might want to correct it.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding the
> > > > > description
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Amareshwari
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > > > dsetrak...@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Apache Incubator,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> > > > > consensus
> > > > > > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > > > > > graduation to TLP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vote thread:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Summary of the vote results:
> > > > > > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > > > > >
> > > > > >1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > > > > >2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > > > > >3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > > > > >4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > > > > >5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > > > > >6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > > > > >7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > > > > >8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > > > > >9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > > > > >10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > > > > >11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > > > > >12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > > > > >13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > > > > >14. Milap Wadwa
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> > consensus
> > > > > > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Below is our proposed resolution:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Igni

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

2015-07-21 Thread jan i

On 21 July 2015 at 22:39, Ted Dunning  wrote:

> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>
Reading other lists, it seems to me that board is very concerned about TLPs
that are dominated by one company.

We (ASF) want to ensure that a project is not controlled by a company, and
also that the project can survive if
the company decides to do something else. That is diversity to me, and I
hope to many others.

It might not be a bar for leaving the incubator, but I sure hope it is a
bar for getting a board approval.
(and actually I thought it was a concern for incubator too).

rgds
jan i.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator


On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.

So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
meritocratic community."?

I think not.


> 
> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> understand how to make releases and are building community.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>> nowhere.
>>
>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>> regarding healthiness.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>> 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
>>>
>>> [quote]
>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>
>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>> status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>> [/quote]
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>   Cos
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
 It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
 (Gridgrain).

 Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>> independece?

 Best regards,

 Pierre Smits

 On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>> dsetrak...@apache.org>
 wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>> amareshw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>>> automated
>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>
>> I dont see any such on project website -
>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>
>>
>
>>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>> .
>> You might want to correct it.
>>
>
> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>
>
>>
>> Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding
>> the
>> description
>>
>> Thanks
>> Amareshwari
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> dsetrak...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>
>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>> consensus
>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>
>>> Vote thread:
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>>>
>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>
>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>
>>>1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>14. Milap Wadwa
>>>
>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>>> consensus
>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>
>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>
>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>
>>> WHEREAS, the

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

2015-07-21 Thread jan i

On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

>
> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>
> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> meritocratic community."?
>
> I think not.
>

If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html

Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:

   -

   it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
   all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of seeing all
   of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater than
   with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
   -

   it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
   guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
   higher change of finding real-life use of the software.

http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting

   -

   PMC and committer diversity

   A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
   or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
   parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
   committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
   with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
   number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
   committership.

If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and guidelines
are false


I think not.


rgds

jan I.


>
>
> >
> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >> nowhere.
> >>
> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> and
> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> intended
> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
> to
> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >> regarding healthiness.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Pierre Smits
> >>
> >> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
> for a
> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
> in
> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
> want
> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>> 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> >>>
> >>> [quote]
> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>
> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>> [/quote]
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>   Cos
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>  It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>  (Gridgrain).
> 
>  Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >> independece?
> 
>  Best regards,
> 
>  Pierre Smits
> 
>  On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>> dsetrak...@apache.org>
>  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >>> amareshw...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >>> automated
> >> and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>
> >> I dont see any such on project website -
> >> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >>
> >>
> >
> >>>
> >>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >> .
> >> You might want to correct it.
> >>
> >
> > Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Correct me if descriptio

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

Nitpicking time.

Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
"GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
and features that will be included into the future official Apache
Ignite releases."

- I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page). You start off by
saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's either or.

Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
project whatsoever.

You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
this is also not acceptable.

I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.

With regards,
Daniel.

On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> 
> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> 
> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> meritocratic community."?
> 
> I think not.
> 
> 
>>
>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>>> nowhere.
>>>
>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>>> regarding healthiness.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
 number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
 to look it up in the archives MessageId is
 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):

 [quote]
 There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
 requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
 We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
 diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
 out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
 I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
 and I have no cycles to spare.

 A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
 status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
 create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
 [/quote]

 Regards,
   Cos

 On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> (Gridgrain).
>
> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>>> independece?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
 dsetrak...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
 amareshw...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
 automated
>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>
>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>
>>>
>>

>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>> .
>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>
>>
>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding
>>> the
>>> description
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Amareshwari
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>> dsetrak...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello Apache Incubator,

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

Yet, the graduation of the projects like Apache Tez had happened with close to
100% PPMC employed by the same company. Shall IPMC first workout what
diversity means in numbers and then apply it to all podlings, instead of doing
this arbitrary?

And what that number should be? Would it need to be 47%? Why not 26% perhaps?
May be Pierre can share his thoughts on why 63% seems to be low. Perhaps he
would care to produce some statistical evidences that anything above 62%
doesn't work?

A project isn't controlled by a company but by its PMC. If PMC doesn't do its
job then the board@ has ways of interfere, and so far was doing just that very
effectively.

Cos

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:44PM, jan i wrote:
> On 21 July 2015 at 22:39, Ted Dunning  wrote:
> 
> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >
> Reading other lists, it seems to me that board is very concerned about TLPs
> that are dominated by one company.
> 
> We (ASF) want to ensure that a project is not controlled by a company, and
> also that the project can survive if
> the company decides to do something else. That is diversity to me, and I
> hope to many others.
> 
> It might not be a bar for leaving the incubator, but I sure hope it is a
> bar for getting a board approval.
> (and actually I thought it was a concern for incubator too).
> 
> 
> rgds
> jan i.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

It seems to me the spirit of the diversity statement is about project survival:

>   A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
>   or employer of contributors.

So I would think satisfying that requirement wouldn’t necessarily involve a 
percentage, but rather a simple number: At least 3 PMC members who are not 
affiliated with the employer of the majority.

That way if the employer of the majority departed, there would be enough 
remaining members for form consensus.

-Taylor


> On Jul 21, 2015, at 4:55 PM, jan i  wrote:
> 
> On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>> 
>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>> meritocratic community."?
>> 
>> I think not.
>> 
> 
> If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> 
> Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
> 
>   -
> 
>   it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
>   all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of seeing all
>   of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater than
>   with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
>   -
> 
>   it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
>   guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
>   higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
> 
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> 
>   -
> 
>   PMC and committer diversity
> 
>   A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
>   or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
>   parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
>   committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
>   with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
>   number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
>   committership.
> 
> If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and guidelines
> are false
> 
> 
> I think not.
> 
> 
> rgds
> 
> jan I.
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
 nowhere.
 
 If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
>> and
 yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
>> intended
 project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
>> to
 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
 regarding healthiness.
 
 Best regards,
 
 
 Pierre Smits
 
 *ORRTIZ.COM *
 Services & Solutions for Cloud-
 Based Manufacturing, Professional
 Services and Retail & Trade
 http://www.orrtiz.com
 
 On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
 wrote:
 
> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
>> for a
> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
>> in
> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
>> want
> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> 
> [quote]
> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> and I have no cycles to spare.
> 
> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> [/quote]
> 
> Regards,
>  Cos
> 
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>> (Gridgrain).
>> 
>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
 independece?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Pierre Smits
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> dsetrak...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> amareshw...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:08PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> Nitpicking time.
> 
> Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
> "GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
> by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
> Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
> continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
> and features that will be included into the future official Apache
> Ignite releases."
> 
> - I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
> considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
> how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page). You start off by
> saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's either or.
> 
> Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
> While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
> is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
> project whatsoever.
> 
> You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
> this is also not acceptable.
> 
> I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
> vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.

Fair points! Thanks Daniel, I was sure these very fixed a while ago. 

As for the affiliation of the members: pretty much every other ASF project
does the same. Shall we make sure that established TLPs aren't doing this
either?

Regards,
Cos

> 
> With regards,
> Daniel.
> 
> 
> On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> > 
> > On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> > 
> > So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> > major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> > meritocratic community."?
> > 
> > I think not.
> > 
> > 
> >>
> >> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >> understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >>> nowhere.
> >>>
> >>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> >>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of 
> >>> intended
> >>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> >>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >>> regarding healthiness.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pierre Smits
> >>>
> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> >>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
>  number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
>  2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
>  to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>  73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> 
>  [quote]
>  There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
>  requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>  We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>  diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>  out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>  I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>  and I have no cycles to spare.
> 
>  A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>  status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
>  create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>  [/quote]
> 
>  Regards,
>    Cos
> 
>  On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> > (Gridgrain).
> >
> > Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >>> independece?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>  dsetrak...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>  amareshw...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>  automated
> >>> and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>>
> >>> I dont see any such on project website -
> >>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> 
> >>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/inc

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:13PM, P. Taylor Goetz wrote:
> It seems to me the spirit of the diversity statement is about project 
> survival:
> 
> >   A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
> >   or employer of contributors.
> 
> So I would think satisfying that requirement wouldn’t necessarily involve a
> percentage, but rather a simple number: At least 3 PMC members who are not
> affiliated with the employer of the majority.

I think it sounds reasonable! And looks like it's all right here: there's more
than 3 PMC members not affiliated with the majority's employer.

Cos

> That way if the employer of the majority departed, there would be enough
> remaining members for form consensus.
> 
> -Taylor
> 
> 
> > On Jul 21, 2015, at 4:55 PM, jan i  wrote:
> > 
> > On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> > 
> >> 
> >> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >> 
> >> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> >> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> >> meritocratic community."?
> >> 
> >> I think not.
> >> 
> > 
> > If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> > 
> > Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
> > 
> >   -
> > 
> >   it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
> >   all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of seeing all
> >   of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater than
> >   with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
> >   -
> > 
> >   it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
> >   guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
> >   higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
> > 
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> > 
> >   -
> > 
> >   PMC and committer diversity
> > 
> >   A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
> >   or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
> >   parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
> >   committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
> >   with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
> >   number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
> >   committership.
> > 
> > If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and guidelines
> > are false
> > 
> > 
> > I think not.
> > 
> > 
> > rgds
> > 
> > jan I.
> > 
> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> 
> >>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
> >>> wrote:
> >>> 
>  Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>  nowhere.
>  
>  If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> >> and
>  yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> >> intended
>  project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
> >> to
>  77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>  regarding healthiness.
>  
>  Best regards,
>  
>  
>  Pierre Smits
>  
>  *ORRTIZ.COM *
>  Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>  Based Manufacturing, Professional
>  Services and Retail & Trade
>  http://www.orrtiz.com
>  
>  On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
>  wrote:
>  
> > The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
> >> for a
> > number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
> >> in
> > 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
> >> want
> > to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> > 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> > 
> > [quote]
> > There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> > requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> > We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> > diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> > out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> > I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> > and I have no cycles to spare.
> > 
> > A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> > status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> > create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> > [/quote]
> > 
> > Regards,
> >  Cos
> > 
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

2015-07-21 Thread Roman Shaposhnik

Please re-read the quote from Roy:

"There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
We must not confuse the two."

and later

"I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
and I have no cycles to spare."

Thanks,
Roman.


On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i  wrote:
> On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>>
>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>> meritocratic community."?
>>
>> I think not.
>>
>
> If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>
> Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
>
>-
>
>it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
>all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of seeing all
>of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater than
>with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
>-
>
>it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
>guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
>higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
>
>-
>
>PMC and committer diversity
>
>A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
>or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
>parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
>committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
>with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
>number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
>committership.
>
> If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and guidelines
> are false
>
>
> I think not.
>
>
> rgds
>
> jan I.
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>> >> nowhere.
>> >>
>> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
>> and
>> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
>> intended
>> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
>> to
>> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>> >> regarding healthiness.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Pierre Smits
>> >>
>> >> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> >> Services and Retail & Trade
>> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
>> for a
>> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
>> in
>> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
>> want
>> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>> >>> 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
>> >>>
>> >>> [quote]
>> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
>> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>> >>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>> >>>
>> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
>> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>> >>> [/quote]
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>>   Cos
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>  It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>>  (Gridgrain).
>> 
>>  Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>> >> independece?
>> 
>>  Best regards,
>> 
>>  Pierre Smits
>> 
>>  On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>> >>> dsetrak...@apache.org>
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>> >>> amareshw...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>> >>> automated
>> >> and managed flow of information between system

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator


While Roy is indeed a smart man, there is no BDFL in the ASF.
Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can just throw out 
there when someone disagrees with you.


Several people, including several IPMC members have expressed concerns.
Address them properly instead of insisting on your way or the high way.

The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough 
men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate 
entity with a deciding vote in the project?".


What I am concerned with here is the responses to this. Instead of 
saying "We don't believe that to be the case", the PPMC is saying 
"there's no rule against that!" as if there _is_ an issue but it's being 
swept under the rug.


With regards,
Daniel.

On 2015-07-21 23:19, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:

Please re-read the quote from Roy:

"There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
We must not confuse the two."

and later

"I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
and I have no cycles to spare."

Thanks,
Roman.


On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i  wrote:

On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno  wrote:


On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:

Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.

So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
meritocratic community."?

I think not.


If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html

Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:

-

it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of seeing all
of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater than
with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
-

it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
higher change of finding real-life use of the software.

http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting

-

PMC and committer diversity

A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
committership.

If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and guidelines
are false


I think not.


rgds

jan I.





What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
understand how to make releases and are building community.



On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:


Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
nowhere.

If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman

and

yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of

intended

project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows

to

77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
regarding healthiness.

Best regards,


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
wrote:


The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list

for a

number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back

in

2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who

want

to look it up in the archives MessageId is
73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):

[quote]
There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
and I have no cycles to spare.

A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
[/quote]

Regards,
   Cos

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:

It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
(Gridgrain).

Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and

independece?

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <

dsetrak...@apac

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

A lot has changed in the period after the posting of Roy. Back then there
seemed to have been less concern regarding independence and diversity. We
now have a code of conduct (even though some are convinced that these are
mere guidelines when it comes to a project's independence).

Diversity is not the same as having 3 independent (p)PMC members. The
diversity aspect is also intended to ensure that there is some kind of
balance, before a project goes bust. If such happens, it might be to late.

Best regards,


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik 
wrote:

> Please re-read the quote from Roy:
>
> "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> We must not confuse the two."
>
> and later
>
> "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> and I have no cycles to spare."
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i  wrote:
> > On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >>
> >> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> >> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> >> meritocratic community."?
> >>
> >> I think not.
> >>
> >
> > If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> >
> > Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
> >
> >-
> >
> >it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
> >all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of
> seeing all
> >of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater
> than
> >with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
> >-
> >
> >it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
> >guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
> >higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> >
> >-
> >
> >PMC and committer diversity
> >
> >A healthy project should survive the departure of any single
> contributor
> >or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
> >parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
> >committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
> >with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
> >number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
> >committership.
> >
> > If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and
> guidelines
> > are false
> >
> >
> > I think not.
> >
> >
> > rgds
> >
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits  >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >> >> nowhere.
> >> >>
> >> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> >> and
> >> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> >> intended
> >> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number
> grows
> >> to
> >> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >> >> regarding healthiness.
> >> >>
> >> >> Best regards,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Pierre Smits
> >> >>
> >> >> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> >> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> >> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
> >> for a
> >> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project
> (back
> >> in
> >> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
> >> want
> >> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >> >>> 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> >> >>>
> >> >>> [quote]
> >> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> >> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

2015-07-21 Thread Roman Shaposhnik

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> Quoting Roy out of context

Daniel, unless you can substantiate the above claim I suggest
you retract your statement. In open communities an accusation
that you just threw at me carries a lot of weight and I will absolutely
NOT tolerate baseless accusations of that kind.

I really hope I've done enough around IPMC over the years to
earn at least a modicum of respect.

Thanks,
Roman.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

2015-07-21 Thread Henry Saputra

I have seen top level projects, with majority of PMCs come from paid
employees of a single company, suffer of growth and development when
the employees of such company stop contributing to the project.

Going back to Apache Ignite, since it is the main core of GridGain I
doubt the project will be abandoned, unless the whole company shift
gear or go bankrupt.
The proposed PMCs also includes the mentors, which I could bring some
check and balance to the project, and I know they have done great job
bringing the Ignite initial committers to the Apache way.


- Henry

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> While Roy is indeed a smart man, there is no BDFL in the ASF.
> Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can just throw out there
> when someone disagrees with you.
>
> Several people, including several IPMC members have expressed concerns.
> Address them properly instead of insisting on your way or the high way.
>
> The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough
> men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate
> entity with a deciding vote in the project?".
>
> What I am concerned with here is the responses to this. Instead of saying
> "We don't believe that to be the case", the PPMC is saying "there's no rule
> against that!" as if there _is_ an issue but it's being swept under the rug.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> On 2015-07-21 23:19, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
>>
>> Please re-read the quote from Roy:
>>
>> "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>> We must not confuse the two."
>>
>> and later
>>
>> "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>> and I have no cycles to spare."
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
>>>
 On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>
> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.

 So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
 major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
 meritocratic community."?

 I think not.

>>> If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>>>
>>> Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact,
>>> with
>>> all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of
>>> seeing all
>>> of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater
>>> than
>>> with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
>>> -
>>>
>>> it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
>>> guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
>>> higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> PMC and committer diversity
>>>
>>> A healthy project should survive the departure of any single
>>> contributor
>>> or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of
>>> many
>>> parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
>>> committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
>>> with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
>>> number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
>>> committership.
>>>
>>> If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and
>>> guidelines
>>> are false
>>>
>>>
>>> I think not.
>>>
>>>
>>> rgds
>>>
>>> jan I.
>>>
>>>

> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>> nowhere.
>>
>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman

 and
>>
>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of

 intended
>>
>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows

 to
>>
>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>> regarding healthiness.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list

 for a
>>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:44PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> A lot has changed in the period after the posting of Roy. Back then there
> seemed to have been less concern regarding independence and diversity. We
> now have a code of conduct (even though some are convinced that these are
> mere guidelines when it comes to a project's independence).

I fail to see how CoC has  to do with the numbers you just quoted, so let's
not sway the conversation that way.

That said - can you quote any empirical evidences (or any evidences at all) on
why %63 seems low? I have asked you this very question in a different message
and would appreciate if the person who started this discussion can add some
factual information to support the claim.

Thank you.
  Cos

> Diversity is not the same as having 3 independent (p)PMC members. The
> diversity aspect is also intended to ensure that there is some kind of
> balance, before a project goes bust. If such happens, it might be to late.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik 
> wrote:
> 
> > Please re-read the quote from Roy:
> >
> > "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> > requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> > We must not confuse the two."
> >
> > and later
> >
> > "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> > and I have no cycles to spare."
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i  wrote:
> > > On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > >> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> > >>
> > >> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> > >> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> > >> meritocratic community."?
> > >>
> > >> I think not.
> > >>
> > >
> > > If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> > >
> > > Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
> > >
> > >-
> > >
> > >it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
> > >all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of
> > seeing all
> > >of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater
> > than
> > >with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
> > >-
> > >
> > >it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
> > >guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
> > >higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
> > >
> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> > >
> > >-
> > >
> > >PMC and committer diversity
> > >
> > >A healthy project should survive the departure of any single
> > contributor
> > >or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
> > >parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
> > >committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
> > >with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
> > >number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
> > >committership.
> > >
> > > If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and
> > guidelines
> > > are false
> > >
> > >
> > > I think not.
> > >
> > >
> > > rgds
> > >
> > > jan I.
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> > >> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits  > >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> > >> >> nowhere.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> > >> and
> > >> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> > >> intended
> > >> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number
> > grows
> > >> to
> > >> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> > >> >> regarding healthiness.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Best regards,
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Pierre Smits
> > >> >>
> > >> >> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> > >> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > >> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > >> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> > >> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
> > >> for a
> > >> >>> number of

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

Another minor nitpick:

On the people page of the ignite website, some are tagged as "PMC" and there is 
a tag for "PMC Chair." Until official graduation, that should probably change 
to "PPMC" and the "PMC Chair" tag be removed, since AFAIK podlings don't have 
VPs.

-Taylor

> On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:08 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> 
> Nitpicking time.
> 
> Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
> "GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
> by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
> Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
> continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
> and features that will be included into the future official Apache
> Ignite releases."
> 
> - I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
> considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
> how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page). You start off by
> saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's either or.
> 
> Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
> While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
> is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
> project whatsoever.
> 
> You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
> this is also not acceptable.
> 
> I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
> vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.
> 
> With regards,
> Daniel.
> 
> 
>> On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>> 
>>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>> 
>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>> meritocratic community."?
>> 
>> I think not.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
 nowhere.
 
 If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
 yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
 project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
 regarding healthiness.
 
 Best regards,
 
 
 Pierre Smits
 
 *ORRTIZ.COM *
 Services & Solutions for Cloud-
 Based Manufacturing, Professional
 Services and Retail & Trade
 http://www.orrtiz.com
 
 On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
 wrote:
 
> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> 
> [quote]
> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> and I have no cycles to spare.
> 
> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> [/quote]
> 
> Regards,
>  Cos
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>> (Gridgrain).
>> 
>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
 independece?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Pierre Smits
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> dsetrak...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> amareshw...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> automated
 and managed flow of information between systems."
 
 I dont see any such on project website -
 http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
 Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
 http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKi

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator


Accusation of what exactly?
To the best of my knowledge, Roy has not been a part of the Ignite 
discussion, nor is he quoting policy in that particular sentence, but 
stating his opinion that the published Incubator policy should be 
overlooked (to which I disagree). Yes, he explains in rigorous detail 
why he thinks the way he thinks, but that is still an _opinion_, and 
quoting it as if it is policy (our published policy still begs to 
differ) is something I will consider as being out of context, as it does 
not convey the exact sentiment but rather, in my view, warps it into a 
truth of sorts.


Yes, I value your hard work and I think you have immense amounts of 
merit, but I really dislike people always throwing Roy into every single 
discussion, and I tend to point it out.


With regards,
Daniel.

On 2015-07-21 23:48, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

Quoting Roy out of context

Daniel, unless you can substantiate the above claim I suggest
you retract your statement. In open communities an accusation
that you just threw at me carries a lot of weight and I will absolutely
NOT tolerate baseless accusations of that kind.

I really hope I've done enough around IPMC over the years to
earn at least a modicum of respect.

Thanks,
Roman.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out? 

For easy reference, here's the link
https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html

to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence supporting
your claim.

Thanks
  Cos

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> 
> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> 
> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> meritocratic community."?
> 
> I think not.
> 
> 
> > 
> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >> nowhere.
> >>
> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >> regarding healthiness.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Pierre Smits
> >>
> >> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>> 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> >>>
> >>> [quote]
> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>
> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>> [/quote]
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>   Cos
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>  It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>  (Gridgrain).
> 
>  Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >> independece?
> 
>  Best regards,
> 
>  Pierre Smits
> 
>  On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>> dsetrak...@apache.org>
>  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >>> amareshw...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >>> automated
> >> and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>
> >> I dont see any such on project website -
> >> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >>
> >>
> >
> >>>
> >> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >> .
> >> You might want to correct it.
> >>
> >
> > Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding
> >> the
> >> description
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Amareshwari
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > dsetrak...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Apache Incubator,
> >>>
> >>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> >> consensus
> >>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> >>> graduation to TLP.
> >>>
> >>> Vote thread:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >>>
> >> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >>>
> >>> Summary of the vote results:
> >>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >>>
> >>>1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >>>2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >>>3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >>>4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >>>5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >>>6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

2015-07-21 Thread Roman Shaposhnik

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> Accusation of what exactly?

Quoting Roy out of context.

Here's what you said: "Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can
just throw out there when someone disagrees with you."

> To the best of my knowledge, Roy has not been a part of the Ignite
> discussion, nor is he quoting policy in that particular sentence, but
> stating his opinion that the published Incubator policy should be overlooked
> (to which I disagree). Yes, he explains in rigorous detail why he thinks the
> way he thinks, but that is still an _opinion_, and quoting it as if it is
> policy (our published policy still begs to differ) is something I will
> consider as being out of context,

Then you should've said "quoting it as if it is policy". Because you see:
   "quoting it as if it is policy" != "Quoting Roy out of context"

Precision of language in contentious online discussions is of paramount
importance.

This time I'll chalk up our misunderstanding to your sloppy use of language
in that particular sentence.

Which brings us back to what you actually wanted to say, which is: "quoting it
as if it is policy". That was NOT my intent. My intent was to *highlight* what
I took as a very insightful statement made in discussion extremely similar
to the one we're having here 3 years after the original discussion.

Roy's statement changed the way I think about ASF and IPMC. That was all I
was trying to communicate.

Thanks,
Roman.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

Is this a reply to me or to Pierre?

I have not mentioned 63% anywhere. I have stated that we have a policy
that states that a podling must have an open and diverse meritocratic
community. The link you put in your reply says exactly that.

With regards,
Daniel.

On 2015-07-22 00:16, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:

Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out?

For easy reference, here's the link
https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html

to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence supporting
your claim.

Thanks
Cos

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:

On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:

Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.

So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
meritocratic community."?

I think not.

What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
understand how to make releases and are building community.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits
wrote:

Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
nowhere.

If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
regarding healthiness.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik
wrote:

The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
to look it up in the archives MessageId is
73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):

[quote]
There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
and I have no cycles to spare.

A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
[/quote]

Regards,
Cos

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:

It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
(Gridgrain).

Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and

independece?

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <

dsetrak...@apache.org>

wrote:

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <

amareshw...@gmail.com>

wrote:

Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the

automated

and managed flow of information between systems."

I dont see any such on project website -
http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E

.
You might want to correct it.

Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.

Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding

the

description

Thanks
Amareshwari

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <

dsetrak...@apache.org>

wrote:

Hello Apache Incubator,

At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established

consensus

and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
graduation to TLP.

Vote thread:

http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html

Summary of the vote results:
+1 (non-binding) = 14

1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
14. Milap Wadwa

We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a

consensus

within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.

Below is our proposed resolution:

Thank you
Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)

SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP

WHEREAS, the Board of Director

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator




On 2015-07-22 00:15, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

Accusation of what exactly?

Quoting Roy out of context.

Here's what you said: "Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can
just throw out there when someone disagrees with you."


To the best of my knowledge, Roy has not been a part of the Ignite
discussion, nor is he quoting policy in that particular sentence, but
stating his opinion that the published Incubator policy should be overlooked
(to which I disagree). Yes, he explains in rigorous detail why he thinks the
way he thinks, but that is still an _opinion_, and quoting it as if it is
policy (our published policy still begs to differ) is something I will
consider as being out of context,

Then you should've said "quoting it as if it is policy". Because you see:
"quoting it as if it is policy" != "Quoting Roy out of context"

Precision of language in contentious online discussions is of paramount
importance.

This time I'll chalk up our misunderstanding to your sloppy use of language
in that particular sentence.


I don't believe I was being sloppy in my use of language, but I don't 
want to turn this into a battle over which dictionary is the best, 
despite your counter-accusation of my sloppy verbal skills.




Which brings us back to what you actually wanted to say, which is: "quoting it
as if it is policy". That was NOT my intent. My intent was to *highlight* what
I took as a very insightful statement made in discussion extremely similar
to the one we're having here 3 years after the original discussion.

Roy's statement changed the way I think about ASF and IPMC. That was all I
was trying to communicate.
Be that as it may, if people have concerns about it, and it's still in 
the policy docs, you either acknowledge and try your best to deal with 
these concerns, or you work to change the policy, preferably in a 
_separate channel_, you don't just dismiss it.


I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with whether it is the _right_ 
policy, I am merely stating that it IS in our published policy and that 
concerns have been raised relating to this. This particular bit has 
nothing to do with Ignite, but graduation in general.


With regards,
Daniel.



Thanks,
Roman.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:17AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> Is this a reply to me or to Pierre?
> 
> I have not mentioned 63% anywhere. I have stated that we have a
> policy that states that a podling must have an open and diverse
> meritocratic community.  The link you put in your reply says exactly
> that.

it was question to Daniel because I don't see where proposed podling fails to
have "an open and diverse meritocratic community"; alas I don't see where the
alleged "policy scraping" is happening. The only quantitative data point I
have seen so far is these "63%" - hence my reference.

If this conversation has any attempt to be actionable - let's at least try to
be fact-of-matter. So far it was just a vague pointing to the out-of-context
quotes from the Incubator's guidelines.

Regards,
  Cos

> With regards,
> Daniel.
> 
> On 2015-07-22 00:16, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> >Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out?
> >
> >For easy reference, here's the link
> > https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >
> >to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
> >community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence 
> >supporting
> >your claim.
> >
> >Thanks
> >   Cos
> >
> >On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >>On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >>>Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >>So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> >>major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> >>meritocratic community."?
> >>
> >>I think not.
> >>
> >>
> >>>What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >>>understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> nowhere.
> 
> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of 
> intended
> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> regarding healthiness.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
> wrote:
> 
> >The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> >number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> >2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> >to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> >
> >[quote]
> >There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> >requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >and I have no cycles to spare.
> >
> >A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> >create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >[/quote]
> >
> >Regards,
> >   Cos
> >
> >On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> >>(Gridgrain).
> >>
> >>Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> independece?
> >>Best regards,
> >>
> >>Pierre Smits
> >>
> >>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >dsetrak...@apache.org>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >amareshw...@gmail.com>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >automated
> and managed flow of information between systems."
> 
> I dont see any such on project website -
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> 
> 
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> .
> You might want to correct it.
> 
> >>>Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >>>
> >>>
> Correct me if descr

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:04 PM, P. Taylor Goetz  wrote:

> Another minor nitpick:
>
> On the people page of the ignite website, some are tagged as "PMC" and
> there is a tag for "PMC Chair." Until official graduation, that should
> probably change to "PPMC" and the "PMC Chair" tag be removed, since AFAIK
> podlings don't have VPs.
>

Done.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On 2015-07-22 00:41, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:17AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:

Is this a reply to me or to Pierre?

I have not mentioned 63% anywhere. I have stated that we have a
policy that states that a podling must have an open and diverse
meritocratic community. The link you put in your reply says exactly
that.

it was question to Daniel because I don't see where proposed podling fails to
have "an open and diverse meritocratic community"; alas I don't see where the
alleged "policy scraping" is happening. The only quantitative data point I
have seen so far is these "63%" - hence my reference.
I wrote "scrap", not "scrape". They are two different words with
different meanings.
I was referring to Ted's argument that diversity was not a bar to
graduation, which seems to contradict our policy.

Either that published policy needs to be changed (and that should be
done outside this podling discussion), or the graduation needs to adhere
to that policy. But simply ignoring it is not something I am willing to do.

WIth regards,
Daniel.

If this conversation has any attempt to be actionable - let's at least try to
be fact-of-matter. So far it was just a vague pointing to the out-of-context
quotes from the Incubator's guidelines.

Regards,
Cos

With regards,
Daniel.

On 2015-07-22 00:16, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:

Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out?

For easy reference, here's the link
https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html

to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence supporting
your claim.

Thanks
Cos

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:

On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:

Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.

So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
meritocratic community."?

I think not.

What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
understand how to make releases and are building community.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits
wrote:

Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
nowhere.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik
wrote:

A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
[/quote]

Regards,
Cos

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:

It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
(Gridgrain).

Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and

independece?

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <

dsetrak...@apache.org>

wrote:

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <

amareshw...@gmail.com>

wrote:

Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the

automated

and managed flow of information between systems."

I dont see any such on project website -
http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E

.
You might want to correct it.

Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.

Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding

the

description

Thanks
Amareshwari

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <

dsetrak...@apache.org>

wrote:

Hello Apache Incubator,

At the suggestion of ou

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:33AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> 
> On 2015-07-22 00:15, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> >On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> >>Accusation of what exactly?
> >Quoting Roy out of context.
> >
> >Here's what you said: "Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can
> >just throw out there when someone disagrees with you."
> >
> >>To the best of my knowledge, Roy has not been a part of the Ignite
> >>discussion, nor is he quoting policy in that particular sentence, but
> >>stating his opinion that the published Incubator policy should be overlooked
> >>(to which I disagree). Yes, he explains in rigorous detail why he thinks the
> >>way he thinks, but that is still an _opinion_, and quoting it as if it is
> >>policy (our published policy still begs to differ) is something I will
> >>consider as being out of context,
> >Then you should've said "quoting it as if it is policy". Because you see:
> >"quoting it as if it is policy" != "Quoting Roy out of context"
> >
> >Precision of language in contentious online discussions is of paramount
> >importance.
> >
> >This time I'll chalk up our misunderstanding to your sloppy use of language
> >in that particular sentence.
> 
> I don't believe I was being sloppy in my use of language, but I
> don't want to turn this into a battle over which dictionary is the
> best, despite your counter-accusation of my sloppy verbal skills.
> 
> >
> >Which brings us back to what you actually wanted to say, which is: "quoting 
> >it
> >as if it is policy". That was NOT my intent. My intent was to *highlight* 
> >what
> >I took as a very insightful statement made in discussion extremely similar
> >to the one we're having here 3 years after the original discussion.
> >
> >Roy's statement changed the way I think about ASF and IPMC. That was all I
> >was trying to communicate.
> Be that as it may, if people have concerns about it, and it's still
> in the policy docs, you either acknowledge and try your best to deal
> with these concerns, or you work to change the policy, preferably in
> a _separate channel_, you don't just dismiss it.

The guidelines - not the _policy_ mind you - says exactly this:

"A major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
meritocratic community."

So far there wasn't a single fact showing that the proposed podling has failed
to do this. If such facts aren't brought to the attention of the IPMC I'd
suggest we just drop the matter and/or move the further "policy" discussions to
a separate thread to establish the semantics of that statements, if so
desired.

Cos

> I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with whether it is the _right_
> policy, I am merely stating that it IS in our published policy and
> that concerns have been raised relating to this. This particular bit
> has nothing to do with Ignite, but graduation in general.
> 
> With regards,
> Daniel.
> 
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Roman.
> >
> >-
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator




On 2015-07-22 00:47, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:33AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:

On 2015-07-22 00:15, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

Accusation of what exactly?

Quoting Roy out of context.

Here's what you said: "Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can
just throw out there when someone disagrees with you."


To the best of my knowledge, Roy has not been a part of the Ignite
discussion, nor is he quoting policy in that particular sentence, but
stating his opinion that the published Incubator policy should be overlooked
(to which I disagree). Yes, he explains in rigorous detail why he thinks the
way he thinks, but that is still an _opinion_, and quoting it as if it is
policy (our published policy still begs to differ) is something I will
consider as being out of context,

Then you should've said "quoting it as if it is policy". Because you see:
"quoting it as if it is policy" != "Quoting Roy out of context"

Precision of language in contentious online discussions is of paramount
importance.

This time I'll chalk up our misunderstanding to your sloppy use of language
in that particular sentence.

I don't believe I was being sloppy in my use of language, but I
don't want to turn this into a battle over which dictionary is the
best, despite your counter-accusation of my sloppy verbal skills.


Which brings us back to what you actually wanted to say, which is: "quoting it
as if it is policy". That was NOT my intent. My intent was to *highlight* what
I took as a very insightful statement made in discussion extremely similar
to the one we're having here 3 years after the original discussion.

Roy's statement changed the way I think about ASF and IPMC. That was all I
was trying to communicate.

Be that as it may, if people have concerns about it, and it's still
in the policy docs, you either acknowledge and try your best to deal
with these concerns, or you work to change the policy, preferably in
a _separate channel_, you don't just dismiss it.

The guidelines - not the _policy_ mind you - says exactly this:

"A major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
meritocratic community."
The policy says the podling SHALL "Demonstrate an active and diverse 
development community".

One can argue that this is somewhat open to interpretation.



So far there wasn't a single fact showing that the proposed podling has failed
to do this.
While there is a high concentration of PMC members from one company, 
yes, it is not axiomatic that this leads to bad things.

I have not stated that this particular issue is a problem.


If such facts aren't brought to the attention of the IPMC I'd
suggest we just drop the matter and/or move the further "policy" discussions to
a separate thread to establish the semantics of that statements, if so
desired.


I would very much like that :)
Clearly there is disagreement in the Incubator on the importance and 
meaning of this specific element of the published policy.


With regards,
Daniel.


Cos


I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with whether it is the _right_
policy, I am merely stating that it IS in our published policy and
that concerns have been raised relating to this. This particular bit
has nothing to do with Ignite, but graduation in general.

With regards,
Daniel.


Thanks,
Roman.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

The following page of the Incubator project states 'The project is not
highly dependent on any single contributor (there are at least 3 legally
independent committers and there is no single company or entity that is
vital to the success of the project)'.

https://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Minimum+Graduation+Requirements

The latter part of that statement ( there is no single company or entity
that is vital to the success of the project) in the policy document is very
clear. Proposing a group of privileged contributors of which 63% is
affiliated to one organisation can not be regarded as anything else than
that a single company has a disproportional influence on the project.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:38AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2015-07-22 00:41, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> >On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:17AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >>Is this a reply to me or to Pierre?
> >>
> >>I have not mentioned 63% anywhere. I have stated that we have a
> >>policy that states that a podling must have an open and diverse
> >>meritocratic community.  The link you put in your reply says exactly
> >>that.
> >it was question to Daniel because I don't see where proposed podling fails to
> >have "an open and diverse meritocratic community"; alas I don't see where the
> >alleged "policy scraping" is happening. The only quantitative data point I
> >have seen so far is these "63%" - hence my reference.
> I wrote "scrap", not "scrape". They are two different words with
> different meanings.

Sorry, of course "scrap" - damn phone auto-incorrect ;)

> I was referring to Ted's argument that diversity was not a bar to
> graduation, which seems to contradict our policy.

I let Ted to address your comment.

> Either that published policy needs to be changed (and that should be
> done outside this podling discussion), or the graduation needs to
> adhere to that policy. But simply ignoring it is not something I am
> willing to do.

Ignoring what exactly? The "diverse" language in the Incubator guidelines
(again, not the policy) is extremely vague and is evidently a subject to all
sorts of interpretations. But let's have a further discussion about the exact
semantics of it elsewhere, if desired.

Cos

> WIth regards,
> Daniel.
> 
> >
> >If this conversation has any attempt to be actionable - let's at least try to
> >be fact-of-matter. So far it was just a vague pointing to the out-of-context
> >quotes from the Incubator's guidelines.
> >
> >Regards,
> >   Cos
> >
> >>With regards,
> >>Daniel.
> >>
> >>On 2015-07-22 00:16, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> >>>Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out?
> >>>
> >>>For easy reference, here's the link
> >>> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >>>
> >>>to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
> >>>community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence 
> >>>supporting
> >>>your claim.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>   Cos
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> meritocratic community."?
> 
> I think not.
> 
> 
> >What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >
> >
> >
> >On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >>nowhere.
> >>
> >>If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman 
> >>and
> >>yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of 
> >>intended
> >>project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows 
> >>to
> >>77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >>regarding healthiness.
> >>
> >>Best regards,
> >>
> >>
> >>Pierre Smits
> >>
> >>*ORRTIZ.COM *
> >>Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>Services and Retail & Trade
> >>http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>
> >>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list 
> >>>for a
> >>>number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back 
> >>>in
> >>>2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who 
> >>>want
> >>>to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>>73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> >>>
> >>>[quote]
> >>>There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
> >>>requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >>>We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >>>diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >>>out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>>I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>>and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>
> >>>A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>>status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
> >>>create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>>[/quote]
> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>   Cos
> >>>
> >>>On T

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

> The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough
> men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate
> entity with a deciding vote in the project?".
>

Actually, I would hope that the criterion is whether there is a single
corporate entity, the distraction of which would effectively kill the
project.

And we do need to look at Ambari as a precedent.  Even now the PMC has 30
members from one company and 7 from other companies.  No other company has
more than two PMC members and all of the top 24 contributors are from the
majority company.  I would be very surprised if this project could survive
a withdrawal of support from that one company.

Yet we graduated Ambari without a peep.  Not surprisingly, most of the
votes were cast by employees of that one company.  But nobody complained at
all.

So it behooves us as some critique Ignite for lack of diversity to ask
whether precedent matters at all here.

Does it?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

> Nitpicking time.
>
> Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
> "GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
> by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
> Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
> continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
> and features that will be included into the future official Apache
> Ignite releases."
>
> - I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
> considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
> how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page).


Good point. I have added text specifying how other companies can provide
their community editions for Apache Ignite.

You start off by saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's
> either or.


We started out by providing just a blank link, but it became very confusing
to our users, and we allowed GridGain to add a brief description.

I have just updated the text of the description to strip it out of anything
other than facts. I don't think it conflicts with Ignite not officially
endorsing this edition.


>
> Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
> While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
> is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
> project whatsoever.
>

Although I see your point, I don't think it's harmful one way or another.
All the community members voluntarily and willingly provided their company
affiliation.


>
> You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
> this is also not acceptable.
>

This is not on purpose. The documentation was initially migrated from
GridGain and some old links might have sneaked in.

I cannot find any places with gridgain.org links you are referencing. Can
you please point those out, so I can quickly fix them?


>
> I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
> vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
> On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >
> > On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >
> > So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> > major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> > meritocratic community."?
> >
> > I think not.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >> understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >>> nowhere.
> >>>
> >>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> and
> >>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> intended
> >>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
> to
> >>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >>> regarding healthiness.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pierre Smits
> >>>
> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> >>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
> for a
>  number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
> in
>  2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
> want
>  to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>  73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):
> 
>  [quote]
>  There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
>  requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>  We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>  diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>  out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>  I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>  and I have no cycles to spare.
> 
>  A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>  status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
>  create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>  [/quote]
> 
>  Regards,
>    Cos
> 
>  On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1
> organisation
> > (Gridgrain).
> >
> > Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >>> independece?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 20

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

2015-07-21 Thread David Nalley

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:10 PM, Ted Dunning  wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
>
>> The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough
>> men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate
>> entity with a deciding vote in the project?".
>>
>
> Actually, I would hope that the criterion is whether there is a single
> corporate entity, the distraction of which would effectively kill the
> project.
>
> And we do need to look at Ambari as a precedent.  Even now the PMC has 30
> members from one company and 7 from other companies.  No other company has
> more than two PMC members and all of the top 24 contributors are from the
> majority company.  I would be very surprised if this project could survive
> a withdrawal of support from that one company.
>
> Yet we graduated Ambari without a peep.  Not surprisingly, most of the
> votes were cast by employees of that one company.  But nobody complained at
> all.
>
> So it behooves us as some critique Ignite for lack of diversity to ask
> whether precedent matters at all here.
>
> Does it?

Speaking generally:
I don't think so.
No one noticed or complained is hardly reason to ignore problems, (if
it is indeed a problem) or to say that such decisions are now binding.
It might be a different matter if it was explicitly acknowledged.

--David

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator




On 2015-07-22 01:17, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:


Nitpicking time.

Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
"GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
and features that will be included into the future official Apache
Ignite releases."

- I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page).


Good point. I have added text specifying how other companies can provide
their community editions for Apache Ignite.


Excellent!



You start off by saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's

either or.


We started out by providing just a blank link, but it became very confusing
to our users, and we allowed GridGain to add a brief description.

I have just updated the text of the description to strip it out of anything
other than facts. I don't think it conflicts with Ignite not officially
endorsing this edition.

Thanks :)
I still find it a bit problematic that the text infers that GridGain's 
3rd party binary is somehow "potentially upstream" from Apache Ignite, 
but I will defer to Shane to decide whether that is allowed or not.





Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
project whatsoever.


Although I see your point, I don't think it's harmful one way or another.
All the community members voluntarily and willingly provided their company
affiliation.


To be clear, I am not about to veto a graduation vote because of company 
affiliations, I just don't think it belongs on the page.
If/when you graduate, the PMC has every right to decide this for 
themselves, I believe.





You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
this is also not acceptable.


This is not on purpose. The documentation was initially migrated from
GridGain and some old links might have sneaked in.

I cannot find any places with gridgain.org links you are referencing. Can
you please point those out, so I can quickly fix them?


http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/features/datagrid.html
http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/features/igniterdd.html
etc.
I think you should just grep for it in your features directory, there 
may be more pages that refer to it.


With regards,
Daniel




I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.

With regards,
Daniel.


On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:

On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:

Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.

So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
meritocratic community."?

I think not.



What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
understand how to make releases and are building community.



On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:


Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
nowhere.

If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman

and

yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of

intended

project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows

to

77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
regarding healthiness.

Best regards,


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik 
wrote:


The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list

for a

number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back

in

2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who

want

to look it up in the archives MessageId is
73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com):

[quote]
There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
and I have no cycles to spare.

A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
[/quote]

Regards,
   Cos

Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

2015-07-21 Thread Chris Douglas

Daniel-

This has been discussed recently in graduations for Tez [1], Drill
[2], and other projects whose continued incubation serves no purpose.
They've completed a curriculum that clears their IP and introduces
them to the ASF's infrastructure, procedures, and culture. The project
must be open, and not threatened by the challenges that open
development poses. We encourage transparency by creating a climate for
projects to report honestly about diversity, rather than incentivizing
corruption of that metric.

As this thread demonstrates, the IPMC cannot do more. -C

P.S. Please fix your quoting, or delete the tail of the message as you reply.

[1] http://s.apache.org/uT4
[2] http://s.apache.org/m2u

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

(Sorry if the placement of this reply is wrong, but this thread is getting long 
and tarting to branch a bit...)

Maybe the question we should be asking is:

Has the ignite podling demonstrated sufficient dedication to diversity that it 
can survive as a TLP, and not be overly influenced by a single corporate entity?

If the answer is "yes," then I would vote +1.

-Taylor

> On Jul 21, 2015, at 7:21 PM, David Nalley  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:10 PM, Ted Dunning  wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough
>>> men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate
>>> entity with a deciding vote in the project?".
>> 
>> Actually, I would hope that the criterion is whether there is a single
>> corporate entity, the distraction of which would effectively kill the
>> project.
>> 
>> And we do need to look at Ambari as a precedent.  Even now the PMC has 30
>> members from one company and 7 from other companies.  No other company has
>> more than two PMC members and all of the top 24 contributors are from the
>> majority company.  I would be very surprised if this project could survive
>> a withdrawal of support from that one company.
>> 
>> Yet we graduated Ambari without a peep.  Not surprisingly, most of the
>> votes were cast by employees of that one company.  But nobody complained at
>> all.
>> 
>> So it behooves us as some critique Ignite for lack of diversity to ask
>> whether precedent matters at all here.
>> 
>> Does it?
> 
> Speaking generally:
> I don't think so.
> No one noticed or complained is hardly reason to ignore problems, (if
> it is indeed a problem) or to say that such decisions are now binding.
> It might be a different matter if it was explicitly acknowledged.
> 
> --David
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 

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[DISCUSS] Diversity policy (WAS: Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator)

On 07/22/2015 01:36 AM, Chris Douglas wrote:
> Daniel-
> This has been discussed recently in graduations for Tez [1], Drill
> [2], and other projects whose continued incubation serves no purpose.

If by this you mean the Incubator has taught the podling what it needs
to know, and the podling is following the best practices of the Apache
Way, then we are in full agreement. I don't see the need to single me
out here, I am not disagreeing with that.

I am saying that we have a published policy which states that a podling
SHALL "demonstrate an active and diverse development community". Some
people are having concerns about this particular item, some are saying
it's irrelevant.

I don't think it's irrelevant when it is in our policy. If the IPMC
feels this policy is too vague or outright wrong, then we should have a
discussion about what we're going to do about that, and then act on it.

But as it stand, the policy states that for a project to be considered
for graduation, it shall demonstrate diversity, and people are in their
right to raise that as a concern, as it is _in the policy_, regardless
of what a segment of the IPMC have decided in other graduation
discussions or votes.

There was a discussion 3 years ago about this, but it did not result in
a change in our published policy. The policy is still there.

If we are interested in changing that policy, we should agree on a
change in a discussion with that as the main topic, and then _write it
down_. We should not have to refer to discussions where this _may have
come up off-topic or as a side note_, that is not fair to people trying
to find out what our practices are.

With regards,
Daniel.

> They've completed a curriculum that clears their IP and introduces
> them to the ASF's infrastructure, procedures, and culture. The project
> must be open, and not threatened by the challenges that open
> development poses. We encourage transparency by creating a climate for
> projects to report honestly about diversity, rather than incentivizing
> corruption of that metric.
> 
> As this thread demonstrates, the IPMC cannot do more. -C
> 
> P.S. Please fix your quoting, or delete the tail of the message as you reply.
> 
> [1] http://s.apache.org/uT4
> [2] http://s.apache.org/m2u
> 
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

>
>
> On 2015-07-22 01:17, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Daniel Gruno 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Nitpicking time.
>>>
>>> Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
>>> "GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
>>> by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
>>> Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
>>> continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
>>> and features that will be included into the future official Apache
>>> Ignite releases."
>>>
>>> - I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
>>> considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
>>> how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page).
>>>
>>
>> Good point. I have added text specifying how other companies can provide
>> their community editions for Apache Ignite.
>>
>
> Excellent!
>
>
>> You start off by saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it -
>> it's
>>
>>> either or.
>>>
>>
>> We started out by providing just a blank link, but it became very
>> confusing
>> to our users, and we allowed GridGain to add a brief description.
>>
>> I have just updated the text of the description to strip it out of
>> anything
>> other than facts. I don't think it conflicts with Ignite not officially
>> endorsing this edition.
>>
> Thanks :)
> I still find it a bit problematic that the text infers that GridGain's 3rd
> party binary is somehow "potentially upstream" from Apache Ignite, but I
> will defer to Shane to decide whether that is allowed or not.
>
>
>>  Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
>>> While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
>>> is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
>>> project whatsoever.
>>>
>>>  Although I see your point, I don't think it's harmful one way or
>> another.
>> All the community members voluntarily and willingly provided their company
>> affiliation.
>>
>
> To be clear, I am not about to veto a graduation vote because of company
> affiliations, I just don't think it belongs on the page.
> If/when you graduate, the PMC has every right to decide this for
> themselves, I believe.
>

Looking at how this discussion is going, I think we should leave it as is
for now in the interest of transparency.


>
>
>>  You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
>>> this is also not acceptable.
>>>
>>>  This is not on purpose. The documentation was initially migrated from
>> GridGain and some old links might have sneaked in.
>>
>> I cannot find any places with gridgain.org links you are referencing. Can
>> you please point those out, so I can quickly fix them?
>>
>
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/features/datagrid.html
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/features/igniterdd.html
> etc.
> I think you should just grep for it in your features directory, there may
> be more pages that refer to it.
>

I fixed it in a bunch of places by doing a grep. If you find anything I
missed, please let me know.

Re: [DISCUSS] Diversity policy (WAS: Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator)

2015-07-21 Thread Chris Douglas

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> If by this you mean the Incubator has taught the podling what it needs
> to know, and the podling is following the best practices of the Apache
> Way, then we are in full agreement. I don't see the need to single me
> out here, I am not disagreeing with that.

Please don't feel singled out. The response was addressed to you
because you had raised the question.

> There was a discussion 3 years ago about this, but it did not result in
> a change in our published policy. The policy is still there.

Since the policy doesn't document the current consensus, could you
draft an update? A discussion of specific text is more likely to
converge. -C

> If we are interested in changing that policy, we should agree on a
> change in a discussion with that as the main topic, and then _write it
> down_. We should not have to refer to discussions where this _may have
> come up off-topic or as a side note_, that is not fair to people trying
> to find out what our practices are.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
>> They've completed a curriculum that clears their IP and introduces
>> them to the ASF's infrastructure, procedures, and culture. The project
>> must be open, and not threatened by the challenges that open
>> development poses. We encourage transparency by creating a climate for
>> projects to report honestly about diversity, rather than incentivizing
>> corruption of that metric.
>>
>> As this thread demonstrates, the IPMC cannot do more. -C
>>
>> P.S. Please fix your quoting, or delete the tail of the message as you reply.
>>
>> [1] http://s.apache.org/uT4
>> [2] http://s.apache.org/m2u
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
>
> -
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator