Re: [OT] DTV switch-over
virgins...@vfemail.net writes: > > In message <51ab7d3a-d3ee-49db-b44f-70bca4f1b...@wilsonet.com>, Jarod Wilson > wr > ites: > > > thereby requiring subscribers to rent more cable boxes... > > You got it. Selling less and charging more for it has been this > company's mantra since... well, when did they become "Comcast"? > > Last June (almost 1 year ago), I lost three channels (4, 40, and 58 if > I recall correctly) because they "moved" them to the digital tier. > > I, personally, find it disgusting how Comcast is using the *OTA* DTV > transition as an opportunity to rob analog *cable* TV subscribers of > service in the name of "digital" programming. Most people don't > understand that "digital" cable has nothing at all to do with what's > "digital" on the air. As a result, the uninformed perception is that > what Comcast's doing is government-mandated. It's patent deception. > > To drive the point home... the DTV transition began in February, and > Comcast is *still* broadcasting commercials (on analog cable, mind > you) urging people to "be ready" for the end of the transition in > June. Let me ask you this: if you're watching that commercial on > analog cable, don't you already have at least basic cable??! Clearly, > the intent here is to mislead the uninformed. More clearly than you know: I remember that, back before my wife and I cancelled our Comcast subscription, they were running advertisements that said: Worried about the DTV transition? Don't worry--Comcast's got you covered: people who receive television signals over the air will need to upgrade their televisions or else lose their ability to watch television. But, as a Comcast cable-television customer, your existing set will *continue to work*. I'm quoting from memory, so the exact wording is likely a little off, but I'm pretty sure they said something remarkably close to that in syntax, and identical to that in semantics. In other words, it's not merely a question of *intent* but of actual *action*, and the action was that they didn't merely `mislead' the *uninformed* by way of /suggestion/--they flat-out *lied*. But, on the up (or, at least, not-so-down) side, the only actual damage that I can see that they may have done anyone via that lie (ignoring things like the /prospective/ damage that may come in the form of vendor-locking encrypted signals, or whatever) would be new customers who signed extended-commitment-for-a-teaser-rate contracts with them because they figured they might as well finally go to cable (or something like that) now that their TV can't receive anything but cable without a separate converter with yet another remote control. -- Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:22 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: > ... [Comcast] flat-out *lied*. For it to be a lie would require them to have planned all along to cease analog transmission at the same time as OTA, but still claim that they would not.It's also possible they just decided to change their schedule. That would simply mean they're not very good at delivering what they promise in their sales pitches, and we already know that to be the case. > ... ignoring things like the /prospective/ damage that may come in the > form of vendor-locking encrypted signals ... Oh, that isn't prospective. When I switched to digital cable reception when I got my Tivo Series 3, I lost the ability to download many of the recordings from my TiVo. Local broadcasts are unrestricted, per FCC rule, but many other recordings appear as "Protected". TiVo's CableCARD certification requires them to honor restrictions indicated by the cable operator. Interestingly, the restrictions don't appear to be applied the way I expected. I've got several high-def recordings from Discovery and History which I can retrieve via HTTP, but everything from Comedy Central -- which doesn't even *have* a high-def capable feed -- is restricted. > ... new customers who signed extended-commitment-for-a-teaser-rate > contracts ... As far as I know, all of Comcast's currently advertised offerings don't have a term requirement. Comcast's Standard ToS allow for the possibility, but none of the actual purchase plans appear to exercise it. You can cancel anytime. This, more than anything, suggests to me they have real monopoly power -- a company as evil as Comcast would surely be looking to lock-in customers contractually if they thought there was any real competition. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over
"Greg Rundlett (freephile)" writes: > > btw, at least in Newburyport, Comcast has been advertising this > heavily with automated calls, mailings, newspaper ads. Today they > even called me live. In the process, they are also shifting some of > the lineup (emphasizing the new channels you get, not the ones they're > removing). Yeesh. Hearing things like this makes me glad that I don't have to deal with them anymore. How? I just gave up television. ;) And it's been really interesting--I've occasionally found myself going through this routine where I sit wander into the living-room, sit down on the couch, spend a minute trying to remember why I'm there..., and then I remember that I have something else that I want to be doing--and I go do it :) My wife and I are thinking about doing webcasts of a homegrown sitcom or something, using all of the now-free time that used to be allocated to television. -- Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over
Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: > "Greg Rundlett (freephile)" writes: > > btw, at least in Newburyport, Comcast has been advertising this > > heavily with automated calls, mailings, newspaper ads. Today they > > even called me live. In the process, they are also shifting some > > of the lineup (emphasizing the new channels you get, not the ones > > they're removing). > Yeesh. Hearing things like this makes me glad that I don't have to > deal with them anymore. > > How? I just gave up television. ;) > > And it's been really interesting--I've occasionally found myself > going through this routine where I sit wander into the living-room, > sit down on the couch, spend a minute trying to remember why I'm > there..., and then I remember that I have something else that I want > to be doing--and I go do it :) I stopped watching over ten years ago. I had a similar habit until I moved to a new house. I did gain a lot more time, which I now waste frivolously in other areas. :-) -- Dan Jenkins, Rastech Inc. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over (was: Mythtv users + Comcast subscribers)
On May 29, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Ben Scott wrote: > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Greg Rundlett (freephile) > wrote: >> ... Comcast is distributing little Digital to Analog converters >> (along >> with their switchover to DTV broadcasts) ... > > I thought the DTV switchover was mainly a problem for people > receiving TV via OTA broadcast (over-the-air, i.e., antennas). I > thought the CATV companies could basically keep sending analog signals > forever. Or are they jumping on the digital-only bandwagon, too? Bandwagon jumping for self-serving purposes. If I recall correctly, the digital version of a standard-def program actually consumes less bandwidth to transmit than the analog variant of the same, so they can cram more digital channels into a multiplexed QAM channel than they can analog channels. On top of that, they can encrypt the digital channels, making it harder for 3rd-party tuners to be useful (be they tuners in a mythtv box or the built-in tuner in an HDTV), thereby requiring subscribers to rent more cable boxes... My own Verizon FiOS TV service has been purely digital for quite a while now. But at least they provided digital->analog adapter thingies for free, so I can still record all my SDTV channels if I really want to (usually, I don't anyway though). -- Jarod Wilson ja...@wilsonet.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over (was: Mythtv users + Comcast subscribers)
On Friday 29 May 2009 04:21:52 pm Ben Scott wrote: > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Greg Rundlett (freephile) > > wrote: > > ... Comcast is distributing little Digital to Analog converters (along > > with their switchover to DTV broadcasts) ... > > I thought the DTV switchover was mainly a problem for people > receiving TV via OTA broadcast (over-the-air, i.e., antennas). I > thought the CATV companies could basically keep sending analog signals > forever. Or are they jumping on the digital-only bandwagon, too? Oh boy, that would be pretty awful. Do we know what kind of timeline the cable companies are planning to persue with this? I've got 3 analog tuners and no plans to pay for digital cable anytime soon. Greg, do you have any information on those digital->analog converters they've got? Are they freebies? Is Comcast publishing this switchover? Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to research some of those things a bit more. I guess I was getting complacent in my Myth box just running for so many years without much effort. -N ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over (was: Mythtv users + Comcast subscribers)
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Jarod Wilson wrote: > If I recall correctly, the digital version of a standard-def program > actually consumes less bandwidth to transmit than the > analog variant of the same ... That much I know is accurate. You can compress a digital signal. I seem to recall that standard definition compresses at roughly a 5:1 ratio. So the bandwidth savings could be significant. I'm not surprised to hear the CATV providers want to do this. But I predict significant confusion, as much of the DTV transition guidance I've seen has been saying that "if you've got cable, you don't have to worry". -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over (was: Mythtv users + Comcast subscribers)
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Neil Joseph Schelly wrote: > I've got 3 analog tuners and no plans to pay for digital cable anytime soon. Depending on what you want, you may not have to. FCC rules say that the cable provider has to provide all the local broadcast signals at no additional cost. That includes digital and high-definition. When I got the CableCARD for my TiVo, there was no additional charge unless I also wanted the cable channels (e.g., CNN, Discovery, ESPN) in high-definition. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over (was: Mythtv users + Comcast subscribers)
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Ben Scott wrote: > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Neil Joseph Schelly > wrote: >> I've got 3 analog tuners and no plans to pay for digital cable anytime soon. > > Depending on what you want, you may not have to. FCC rules say that > the cable provider has to provide all the local broadcast signals at > no additional cost. That includes digital and high-definition. > > When I got the CableCARD for my TiVo, there was no additional charge > unless I also wanted the cable channels (e.g., CNN, Discovery, ESPN) > in high-definition. > > -- Ben Right. The DTA converters are given to subscribers on request (up to two per household). Additional ones are charged. Like Ben said, I think you can also get a cablecard for no fee. The DTA thingies bother me because it's one more thing you have to plug in, that is always on, and you need another remote, that uses another battery, and another receiver to place on top of your set/furniture. "Free" in this case means we pay for it in our service fees (there is a lot of cost and overhead to implement this), and we obviously pay for it in the above ways. btw, at least in Newburyport, Comcast has been advertising this heavily with automated calls, mailings, newspaper ads. Today they even called me live. In the process, they are also shifting some of the lineup (emphasizing the new channels you get, not the ones they're removing). > ___ > gnhlug-discuss mailing list > gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ > -- Greg Rundlett Web Developer - Initiative in Innovative Computing http://iic.harvard.edu camb 617-384-5872 nbpt 978-225-8302 m. 978-764-4424 -skype/aim/irc/twitter freephile http://profiles.aim.com/freephile ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over (was: Mythtv users + Comcast subscribers)
In message <51ab7d3a-d3ee-49db-b44f-70bca4f1b...@wilsonet.com>, Jarod Wilson wr ites: > thereby requiring subscribers to rent more cable boxes... You got it. Selling less and charging more for it has been this company's mantra since... well, when did they become "Comcast"? Last June (almost 1 year ago), I lost three channels (4, 40, and 58 if I recall correctly) because they "moved" them to the digital tier. I, personally, find it disgusting how Comcast is using the *OTA* DTV transition as an opportunity to rob analog *cable* TV subscribers of service in the name of "digital" programming. Most people don't understand that "digital" cable has nothing at all to do with what's "digital" on the air. As a result, the uninformed perception is that what Comcast's doing is government-mandated. It's patent deception. To drive the point home... the DTV transition began in February, and Comcast is *still* broadcasting commercials (on analog cable, mind you) urging people to "be ready" for the end of the transition in June. Let me ask you this: if you're watching that commercial on analog cable, don't you already have at least basic cable??! Clearly, the intent here is to mislead the uninformed. Comcast gets to cram more signal into less bandwidth... saving them money. At the same time, if I want the Hallmark Channel back (that was channel 58, I think), I have to rent one of their cable boxes. And, don't forget... Comcast's new TOS declare that their cable boxes, as well as ALL software and settings on them, are Comcast "property". That means they can change settings, upgrade software, etc. on your box without your knowledge. (Someone on this list recently complained about surprise changes made to a cable modem.) IIRC, the TOS even grant Comcast explicit permission to come into your home and physically change out cards in their CPE. (No joke!) Because the digital boxes have channels back to Comcast, and they can change set-top software at will, it's possible for Comcast to track subscriber viewing habits. Warrantless set-top surveillance, anyone? No, I'm afraid I'll have to pass. I'm plenty "ready" with my analog tuner card, thank you! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over (was: Mythtv users + Comcast subscribers)
AFAIK Comcast will continue to provide analog signals until the 2012 deadline. However, they can also follow some other cable companies by providing free converter boxes to basic cable subscribers. On 05/29/2009 04:21 PM, Ben Scott wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Greg Rundlett (freephile) wrote: ... Comcast is distributing little Digital to Analog converters (along with their switchover to DTV broadcasts) ... I thought the DTV switchover was mainly a problem for people receiving TV via OTA broadcast (over-the-air, i.e., antennas). I thought the CATV companies could basically keep sending analog signals forever. Or are they jumping on the digital-only bandwagon, too? http://www.dtv.gov/topfaqs.html#faq3 -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over (was: Mythtv users + Comcast subscribers)
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:59 PM, wrote: > To drive the point home... the DTV transition began in February, and > Comcast is *still* broadcasting commercials (on analog cable, mind > you) urging people to "be ready" for the end of the transition in > June. Speaking of misleading The DTV transition didn't "begin" in February 2009. It's been a long, drawn-out process, going back years. Analog cut-offs happened in 2008 in some areas. But the nation-wide analog cut-off date was scheduled for 31 Dec *2006*[1]. For a few years, it was scheduled for 17 Feb 2009[2]. It was then postponed again (in 2009), to 12 June 2009. Special permission was then required to cut-off analog broadcasts in Feb 2009; about 36% of OTA broadcast operators have done so.[3] [1] http://www.dtv.gov/DTVAct.pdf [2] ibid [3] http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-288641A1.pdf Practically all of the "commercials" I've seen have either been (1) public service announcements mandated by government or (2) from OTA broadcast operators. Comcast is legally prohibited from interfering with either. But hey, by all means, go on blaming Comcast for everything. I hear they started the Iraq war, too. (Note that I'm not saying Comcast isn't a an evil, money-grubbing organization. They are. But I dislike untruths of all kinds.) > And, don't forget... Comcast's new TOS declare that their cable boxes, > as well as ALL software and settings on them, are Comcast "property". This is not new. They've *always* been cable company property. That's why you have to rent them, and you get billed if you don't return them if you cancel service. Owning your own cable box used to be *illegal*. It wasn't until CableCARDs were mandated by the FCC that you even had the option of owning your own cable decoder. Even then, the CableCARD's remain the property of the cable operator. > IIRC, the TOS even grant Comcast explicit permission to come into your home > and > physically change out cards in their CPE. (No joke!) This is also not new. Comcast also owns the cable wire up to a certain point; I forget where. The telephone company owns the wiring in your house up to the Network Interface Device, and the NID itself. The power company owns the wiring up to the attachment point. They also own the meter; and opening the meter box is regulated. All three companies have the legal right and responsibility to maintain the infrastructure they own. Sorry if you weren't paying attention before now. > Because the digital boxes have channels back to Comcast, and they can > change set-top software at will, it's possible for Comcast to track > subscriber viewing habits. Indeed. I know TiVo does the same thing with their stuff, and has for years. If you're worried about Comcast, I would advise using a third-party tuner that accepts CableCARDs. The current generation of CableCARD's can't send data back to Comcast, I believe. However, once the cable industry gets around to agreement on/deployment of CableCARD 2.0, which enables video-on-demand and pay-per-view, viewer monitoring may become possible. > Warrantless set-top surveillance, anyone? Only the government is supposed to have a warrant to watch you. And apparently, they don't always bother even then... > Selling less and charging more for it has been this > company's mantra since... well, when did they become "Comcast"? That's also wrong. They've been like this since *at least* back to when they were Continental Cablevision. ;-) > No, I'm afraid I'll have to pass. I'm plenty "ready" with my analog > tuner card, thank you! It's always been an inevitability that everything is eventually going to migrate to digital; it's only a question of "when". I had been hearing thet CATV analog cut-off's were still a few years away; my question was just about Comcast accelerating their schedule, not that it was happening. If you dislike Comcast (and I don't blame you for doing so; they're a lousy company to deal with, even if some of your claims are false), I would suggest sticking with OTA signals, where are unencrypted, one-way, cannot be monitored, and "free". You'll have to use digital tuners starting 12 June, of course. I've got an PCHDTV HD-5500 I'm looking to sell... -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over (was: Mythtv users + Comcast subscribers)
In message <155dc4110905301641w60a1f846nae13a3aa775f8...@mail.gmail.com>, Ben S cott writes: > The DTV transition didn't "begin" in February 2009. It's been a > long, drawn-out process, going back years. Analog cut-offs happened > in 2008 in some areas. But the nation-wide analog cut-off date was > scheduled for 31 Dec *2006*[1]. For a few years, it was scheduled for > 17 Feb 2009[2]. It was then postponed again (in 2009), to 12 June > 2009. Oh, I didn't know that it had been postponed. I'd briefly considered tuning in an OTA station right at 00:00 Feb 17 2009 to see the station wink out... Alas, I didn't have an antenna on hand. From what you're saying, it sounds like I didn't really miss much. :) > But hey, by all means, go on blaming Comcast for everything. I hear > they started the Iraq war, too. LOL. Of course they did! That's why they have the new menu on Comcast Channel 1: "War on Demand". ;) > > And, don't forget... Comcast's new TOS declare that their cable boxes, > > as well as ALL software and settings on them, are Comcast "property". > > This is not new. They've *always* been cable company property. One of my neighbors recently (two months ago?) showed me a flyer he got from Comcast, describing changes to his TOS. This was among the changes the flyer advertised. > > IIRC, the TOS even grant Comcast explicit permission to come into your ho= > me and > > physically change out cards in their CPE. =A0(No joke!) > > This is also not new. This, too, was in the flyer announcing supposedly "new" changes to my neighbor's TOS. Maybe these TOS changes aren't new. It wouldn't be the first time Comcast did anything *misleading*, now would it? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] DTV switch-over (was: Mythtv users + Comcast subscribers)
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Ben Scott wrote: > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Greg Rundlett (freephile) > wrote: > > ... Comcast is distributing little Digital to Analog converters (along > > with their switchover to DTV broadcasts) ... > > I thought the DTV switchover was mainly a problem for people > receiving TV via OTA broadcast (over-the-air, i.e., antennas). I > thought the CATV companies could basically keep sending analog signals > forever. Or are they jumping on the digital-only bandwagon, too? > FWIW - I've got FiOS in Tewksbury. I have 3 set top boxes and 3 analog TVs connected. Oh - I have S2 (analog) TiVos on them. No convertes beyond that. Heck, I got a 2009 Mac Mini to hook up to TV and had to get a VGA to analog svideo/composite converter (the passive DVI-A to analog adapters don't work because it's DVI-D, not DVI-I; no analog signal to pass along). ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
