date:20050526

Dear Teotonio and Gabe,

In this context, it would help to look into the records of
"new christians", Jews converted under compulsion:

Another related family would be the Sant Angels.

A look into the biographical data od Roderigo, later the
Pontif, the benefector of Colon/Columbus might help.

Alfred

From: Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org
To: goanet@goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Sottomayor /Sotomaior/Souto Maior
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 13:25:51 +0100

On 26/05/05, Teotonio R. de Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Name derived possibly from the valley of Souto, in Spain. Being a large
> locality, it was termed Maior. The first known user of it as family name 
was

> Paio Mendes Sorede de Sotomaior (XIII c.) married to Eremesenda Nunes
> Maldonado. The descendants moved to Portugal. Their 7th grandson, D. 
Pedro
> Alvares de Sottomayor, viscount of Tui and count of Caminha, lived for 
some
> years in Portugal after 1476. His descendant D- Pedro Taveira de 
Sottomayor,
> played an important role in the military campaigs of the "Restoration" 
of..

> Teotonio R. de Souza

Question: How about Banco Pinto & Sotto Mayor? Is this Institution
also part of the family?

--
Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.
London, England

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[Goanet]RE: Goanet digest, Vol 1 #2212 - 18 msgs

2005-05-26 Thread MailingListClint!

I'm an avid computer hardware fan, and follow the latest trends in computer
hardware..so here's my two paisa's worth of computer gobbeldy gook..

WHERE TO LOOK
Computer prices are considerably higher here in Goa, but not much of a
difference compared to Mumbai. However, you can get your hardware cheaper in
Bangalore. This would be a wise option if you know to assemble computers
yourself or you travel to B'lore or M'bai often. there's always the downside
of not being able to avail of service and warranty immediately should your
hardware fail in Goa. Here in Goa, you get two ranges of computers to choose
from, Branded computers and Assembled computers.

BRANDED COMPUTERS
Branded computers are often a choice of offices, professionals and people
who don't want to fuss about their computers too much. They are definatly
more pricy than their assembled counterparts, but offer higher quality,
reliability, and service (depending on the brand). Service however is
subject to location, vendor and brand. Branded systems tend to be a little
stiff on variety, with the ability to choose from model nos rather than
customized requirements. The most positive point to be noted is that prices
in the branded segment has fallen considerably recently, and that's a
welcome trend.

ASSEMBLED COMPUTERS 
The most commonly available computer nowadays, this variety is usually about
Rs. 5000/- to 10,000/- cheaper than a branded counterpart of the same
specifications. This makes most people choose this alternative to a branded
computer. Assembled computers have the flexibility of giving you the best
deal as the assembler is not restricted to particular brands, don't have to
pay for expensive advertisements as for branded computers, and can provide
low prices by getting cheaper hardware sourced from different locations.
People with specific requirements can get their computer tailor made to suit
just their requirements such as just for surfing the net, or just for
programming or just to play games. But ofcourse, there are the downsides.
Assemblers can quickly gauge a person that is new to computers and often
make them pay for a computer that either has features that might not be
required, or more commonly and even worse, give them low quality hardware
and increasing his profit margins.

DECIDING WHAT YOU WANT
Making a choice on what computer you want should never be made in a hurry.
Take your time. List down what you would expect to do on your computer. Try
and be as specific as possible. When you are done, ask a friend that is
familiar with computers and looking at your list, he/she should suggest what
you should go in for. Remember these few points regarding computers. Higher
Gigahertz does not always mean faster computer. It's advisable and cheaper
not to buy the latest, latest, latest computer, as computer get outdated by
the hour. No matter how 'latest' your computer is, it will defiantly be
outdated in a week. Getting a slightly outdated computer also makes economic
sense, as the price difference is quite a lot lesser. Sometimes, the newest
hardware does not always click, and so its withdrawn and you are left with
technology that nobody supports. When you and your friend have decided what
you want, go out and visit at least 3 different shops and get their
quotations. Both Margao and Panjim have lots of places. Exhibitions like
ECAP offer a lot of great deals, but also watch out for stalls trying to
offload outdated products at low prices. If you are getting an assembled
computer, bargain like you are in a fish market, but remember, assemblers
can also reduce prices by reducing quality. Check the net for reviews of the
hardware mentioned on your quotation. Branded computers can't usually be
bargained for unless you are buying in bulk. I can't stress how important
'SERVICE' is. Almost all computers give trouble in the first 3 months, and
could have problems down the line. Both Branded Shops & Assemblers are
notorious for terrible service. Ask for a service contract if possible and
make sure everything is clear.

THE FINAL STEPS
You should know prices, and therefore the more quotations you have, the more
aware you will be. Branded computers usually sell for 25- 40,000/- but there
are some exceptions like Zenith and HCL that give a good value computer for
19,000/- using an AMD processor. I would highly recommend the AMD based HCL
Easybee branded system. As for assembled computers, you could get a
reasonably good computer for as low as Rs. 15,000/-. Most assemblers offer
computers from 18,000/- to 30,000/- Assembled computer parts usually have
this hardware and a rough estimate on cost. (I haven't checked prices since
Nov'04, so I could be wrong on some prices)

Processor.. AMD AthlonXP 2400+ or similar for 2,500/- or Pentium 4 2.8Ghz
for 4-5,000/- (AMD is less hype and advertising and more value for money)
Motherboard.Assus, Gigabyte, Intel, DFI, MSI for aroud 1,500 to 4,500/-
depending on specifications.
RAM (Memory) 256MB DDR for

[Goanet]Re: Poll on sexual attitudes

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> One day an affable Goan relative comes from Canada to visit us and spend 
some time
> with us.  But the relative comes with their live-in lover.  Should I make 
this relative:
> 
> 1. Very much at home and make the persons an example to my kid.

Yes, make them very much at home, preferably with Goan food.  See what to do 
with the kid below.

> 2. Allow the two lovers share the same bed room for as long as they want to 
be our guests.

Yes, share the same room but talk to them all night.  Keep them awake by 
discussing various topics
except the Inquisition or caste in Goa which will put them to sleep.

> 3. Force them into separate bedrooms and abide by our mores while they are 
under our roof.

This won't work.  Once you are asleep, they will sneak in together.  However, 
you could stay awake
all night and discuss various topics.

> 4. Pack this relative back home or to a hotel ASAP.  

Send the kid to the hotel.  Teenagers like to be away from parents.  This way 
the kid can tell her
classmates the next day: "Guess how lucky I got.  A relative came over to 
visit from Canada and
dad chatted to them all night. So as not to disturb me, dad put in a hotel 
room last night."

Regards,
George

> 
> It is free to vote!:=))  Ladies as the boss of the home please opine.
> Regards, GL
> 
>  jose colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> I tried very hard to answer your most excellent questions  but I don't 
> > think I made sense to you. Either that ...or you do not read.
> > 
> > I believe it is the former..  good wishes ... jc
> 
>  
> >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
>  > None of them were trick questions.
> > They were posed because I do not know the answer to them.
> > Can you or any one answer the question? especailly
> > Do you think same-sex pedophiles is a sexual-behavioral extension of adult 
> > homosexuality or is it a different 'kettle of fish'?
> > 
> > If you do not know, please say so and let's not answer a question with a 
> > question.
>

[Goanet]Re: Fr. Ivo on Dr. Helekar2

2005-05-26 Thread Fr. Ivo Da C. Souza

Dr.Santosh Helekar wrote:
>>I admit I am very confused by Fr. Ivo's posts
>...quantum mechanics cannot explain creation of
>something from nothing.
>

Not true at all. It very well can. The Casimir effect
is one such instance. In fact, as I have mentioned a
couple of times already, experiments on zero-point
energy have already shown something emerging from
nothing... 

   *--Absolutely wrong. Can something come from nothing? No.
 1.God is intimately involved in every natural process, because to cause 
an effect is to impart being, and God is the First Cause of all that is, 
because God's essence is to be. Beings do indeed cause effects, but not 
without the primal causality of that Being whose nature is to be. For nothing 
reduces itself from potentiality to actuality except by something already in 
act. We, as actually existing beings, can impart being upon that which is in 
potentiality to receive the particular mode of being in question, but none of 
us can bring something into being from nothing. 
   Creation (the bringing of something into being, by God, from nothing) is 
not change. The notion of creation from nothing, without God (Ipsum Esse) of 
course, leaves us with nothing. This is sound Philosophy and Theology.

  2.There cannot be spontaneous appearance of the Universe from nothing. 
Why? It cannot be a change, since nothing is not a terminus. And there is no 
cause to this spontaneous appearance. So there is a potentiality that is 
actualized, but it is not "somehow" actualized because there is no cause. We 
cannot ask "how" or "why". To ask "why" is to seek the cause, and there is no 
cause. But quantum fluctuation is put forth as an agent cause. This is 
inconsistent. 
   So what, then, is the existential status of this quantum fluctuation? What 
is it? If it is nothing, it cannot be the cause. If it is something, then the 
Universe did not proceed from nothing.

  3.Fluctuation is also a term whose meaning, like the meanings of all our 
words, is derived from our pre-scientific experience. Something "fluctuates". 
The word itself means "change". Fluctuation implies a substrate and a terminus 
a quo. Something is changing, and the terminus ad quem of that change is the 
end of the change. Now, is there a cause of this quantum fluctuation? If not, 
then we posit a change that is not caused, that is, a fulfillment or a 
realization (actualization) of a potentiality without a prior act. But this 
too would mean getting something from nothing. There is no cause of the 
fluctuation, and so we cannot seek to know why there was a fluctuation. Now, 
if nothing precedes the fluctuation (which is to say that the fluctuation has 
no substrate), then the fluctuation has nothing for its terminus a quo (for it 
has no substrate). But nothing cannot be the terminus a quo, because nothing 
means non-being. It is absurd to posit nothing as being a term "from which". 
Spontaneous generation contradicts our daily experience...

   Ivo da C.Souza

Re: [Goanet]Emails from Mario Goveia's address

2005-05-26 Thread Mervyn Lobo

someone at <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> By the way, Mervyn, a proud second-class Canadian

Hi there unknown person(s)
I am aware that you are a slow reader/learner so let
me try this one more time. Canada has ONE type of
citizenship. A citizenship allows ANY citizen to run
for ANY public office. The current elected MP's
include three who were born in the United States, two
who were born in Tanzania and ten who are originally
from the Indian sub-continent. There also are Indian
born MP's in the Cabinet. The following link will give
you some idea on how many and how far new Canadians
have progressed in Canadian politics.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/people/House/mpsbo.asp?lang=E&Hist=N

Returning to your topic of second class citizens, it's
my understanding that you, a US CITIZEN, cannot by
law, run for some public offices in your own country.
Now that's REALLY a second class citizen.

> "Why no Canadian issues posted by Goan Canadians?"
> where I asked why Goan Canadians were obsessed 
> by the dominating shadow of the US and never 
> posted anything about the social and economic 
> mess in Canada?

dude(s),
The Fox network uses "Have you stopped beating your
wife?" Any teenager can copy, re-word and paste as you
do. When, oh when,  are you going to come up with some
original thought? Secondly, all that Canadians are
interested in, is to keep those US tax dollars flowing
directly north. We know how spend it and know what to
send you good folks in return.

Returning to the original topic on this tread, any
pre-teen in the US will know, and will be courteous
enough, to sign email s/he has authored. You have not
shown us this courtesy. In fact, when you started
here, every post of yours had "bovine excrement" in
it. I told you several times that you were the only
person using crude language but you insisted on using
what YOU felt like. It's thanks to the adm team that
you have cleaned up your language.

Once again, I have the same request for you. 
Can you behave like a first class member and sign the
emails that you post on Goanet? Either that, or we
start treating you like the other teenagers that use
false ID's here. 

Mervyn3.0

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[Goanet]Goa's forts (website)

2005-05-26 Thread Constantino Xavier



Dear Joe,

there are several forts in Goa, some from the pre-Portuguese period then 
renovated/reconstructed by the Portuguese, and some from the Portuguese 
period. And some in the post-Portuguese period, if we consider Project Sea 
Bird at Karwar, occupying the Goan territory of Anjediv Island, or Indian 
Navy's presence in Dabolim!


Curiously, the experience you narrate regarding a supposed fort in Chandor 
happened to me also. If you follow the Goa Tourism Department Map there is 
not only a fort in Chandor (inexistant, as you found out) as well as in 
Nanuz, few km South of Valpoy, Sattari's capital. I went there in 1999. Only 
after querying for over two hours with local villagers, some took us through 
dense vegetation up to a hill. There I found only a pillar with an 
inscription saying that there had been a fort there. Villagers told me there 
used to be a silver cross on the pillar, but "taken back to Portugal".


Later I found out that the same fort of Nanuz had been destroyed by the 
Portuguese themselves, in 1896 (I am not sure), to prevent it from serving 
as a hideout for local rebellions which were frequent in this region by the 
end of the 19th century.


This just to show the ridiculous fact of Goa Tourims Department Map's (and 
most other tourist maps) showing a fort that does not exist for over a 
century.


Please see the list of Goan forts (with images and brief history) I put up 
at Supergoa.com:


http://www.supergoa.com/pt/fortes/f_intro.asp

Regards,
Constantino




*
Goa @ http://www.supergoa.com/

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[Goanet]Re: Poll on sexual attitudes

2005-05-26 Thread gilbertlaw

GL responds:
Hi JC:  
I don't believe you would not know the answers to those question if there were 
answers. 

That is my point.  There are so many questions about homosexuality that we do 
not know and dare not ask - including medical questions.

Dr. Joaquim DeSouza and Kevin had a lot of good generalization.  But let me ask 
them and others how they would handle the following situation where: 

About fifteen years ago, we were living very comfortably in our home in the USA 
with our teenage daughter.  One day an affable Goan relative comes from Canada 
to visit us and pend some time with us.  But the relative comes with their 
live-in lover.  Should I make this relative:

1. Very much at home and make the persons an example to my kid.
2. Allow the two lovers share the same bed room for as long as they want to be 
our guests.
3. Force them into separate bedrooms and abide by our mores while they are 
under our roof.
4. Pack this relative back home or to a hotel ASAP.  

It is free to vote!:=))  Ladies as the boss of the home please opine.
Regards, GL

 jose colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I tried very hard to answer your most excellent questions  but I don't 
> think I made sense to you. Either that ...or you do not read.
> 
> I believe it is the former..  good wishes ... jc

>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 None of them were trick questions.
> They were posed because I do not know the answer to them.
> Can you or any one answer the question? especailly
> Do you think same-sex pedophiles is a sexual-behavioral extension of adult 
> homosexuality or is it a different 'kettle of fish'?
> 
> If you do not know, please say so and let's not answer a question with a 
> question.

Re: [Goanet] Alfred de Tavares' 3 piece v 7 piece sartorialism

--- jose colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "Alfred de Tavares"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
>Does the 7-piece sartorialization you profer include
>'cashti' and all?
> 


Alfredchacha/Josebab,

In IRC a 7-piece suit is the following from inside
out, bottom to top:

Chaambdeachem zotem
Kashti
Haathkaapem Banyan
Poodvem
Khomiss
Topi or chepem
Judi

Cheers,

Santosh

[Goanet]Re: George and "going after John Paul II" - final

--- jose colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Look George, I believe I have said all I have to say about this matter save 
> to add that a distinct anti-"white" foundation runs through your posts.(I 
> would have understood it IF it was as a counter to some radical Rt. Wing 
> Aryan group was posting here) but I see in my file a distinct streak of 
> racism in your postings - whether it be re: John Paul II, the election of 
> new Pope (Benedict), St Francis Xavier, Mother Teresa or even the late 
> Archbishop Alan Basil de Lastic.

If you CAREFULLY review my comments with an objective eye, you will note that I 
am opposed to
unjust Power Structures which happen to be white in the topics/threads 
discussed.  It is not white
I am opposed to, but the injustices which flow from these offices/institutions. 
 If we had 4
African Popes in a row I would ask what about Asia or Latin America.  I have 
already asked what
about women priests without respect to color.  I am interested in the injustice 
as I see it
(whether someone agrees or disagrees is another matter).  If we had 6 women 
Hispanic USA
Presidents in a row, I would ask what about Black men, white women, etc.  If we 
had 50 Goan
Catholic saints I would ask what about saints from Kerala.  Your perception of 
my racial bias is
incorrect.  

Regards,
George

[Goanet]Exhibition Football Match - KFC v/s INDIA Select at Soor Grounds, Kuwait

2005-05-26 Thread CSSC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Exhibition Football Match
 - KFC versus INDIA SELECT at Soor Grounds, Kuwait
  
An exhibition football  match will be held at Soor
Grounds, Kuwait tomorrow, May 27th, 2005 at 7:30 a.m.
between Kuwait Football Club (KFC) versus INDIA
Select.   Both teams comprises of young budding and
talented footballers (school students).   All are
invited to attend.
 
This match will be followed by the finals between
Navelim Youth Centre and A.V.C. Sports Club organized
by the United Goans Centre under the auspices of KIFF.
  
 (Info source: C.S.S.C.)




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[Goanet]Silence & Vision

2005-05-26 Thread Cecil Pinto

Bosco D'Mello wrote:
RESPONSE: You are free to intepret any and all posts as you like and you are
free to make an opinion. On behalf of Goanet Admin, I have done the same.

Cecil:
I was responding to statements (regarding 'benevolent dicatatorship' and a 
'vision' for GoaNet) made by Fred in his personal capacity and as you 
clearly stated, NOT in his capacity as a member of the GoaNet Admin Team. I 
still can't understand why you are defending and interpreting Fred's 
personal messages. Can't he do so himself? Most strange?

-

> Cecil:
> Well said. So can I assume that Fred's statement about the 'benevolent
> dictatorship' is not shared by the other Admin Team Members? Or is it?

Bosco:
RESPONSE: Once again, I have said what I had to. Everybody is free to form
their own opinion. I don't see anything ambiguous with what I have said.

Cecil:
So how come you can't answer a simple question? Do you share Fred's opinion 
that GoaNet should be run like a 'benevolent dicatatorship'? If you don't 
want to reply it's perfectly ok. I understand you must be under a lot of 
pressure.

Bosco:
RESPONSE: I'm sorry if I have given you that impression as that was not my
intent. I have no intention to "skirt" anything. I have no idea what is
this "vision" that you are trying to figure out. Whatever Goanet Admin have
had to say, is shared publicly. You will find those messages in Goanet
Archives. Most of them have come from Herman Carneiro.

Cecil:
Then surely Fred has to clarify about his 'vision' for GoaNet, that is 
obviously not even shared by his fellow Admin Team Members, let alone 
ordinary subscribers like me.

Bosco:
RESPONSE: You are right - every country does have a constitution but Goanet is
not a country. Did you say illogical ??

Cecil:
The point I was trying to make is that writing down Rules and Guidelines 
does not ensure smooth running of any operation. There is always scope for 
interpretation - and modification.

> Cecil:
> Agreed. And also if there is a 'vision' that the Admin Team is working
> towards then it should be shared so we do not work at cross purposes. And
> Fred should clarify what he meant (as an individual or as a Admin Team
> Member) instead of asking others to interpret his statements.

Bosco:
RESPONSE: I've addressed this above but I'd like to add, if there are any
Goanetters out there with ideas and suggestions for Goanet, Goanet Admin would
delighted to hear them. Drop a note to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or drop a
personal note to any of us individually.

Cecil:
You have addressed nothing. Fred spoke of a 'vision' for GoaNet. You claim 
you don't know about any such 'vision'. None of the other Admin members 
have spoken on this issue. So perhaps this 'vision' is Fred's solely. How 
quaint.

-

Bosco:
RESPONSE: I don't think of you as a curmudgeon and I don't believe any others
do. Don't be hard on yourself. You're a Goenkar in the pursuit
of "information"!!

Cecil:
Better still, I am a Cyber Goan in search of the truth. And from your 
ducking and evading, and Fred's silence, I think I have my answers.

-

Cecil:
For the weary subscribers I quote below Fred's statements below a few days 
back which I questioned and my questioning posts were rejected by the Admin 
Team repatedly even after re-writing them three times to get rid off 
whatever it was they considered unacceptable.

Fred wrote:
.
.
My personal view is that Net-based ventures are best run as benevolent
dictatorships. With people getting peer-acceptance on the basis of the
work they put in.
.
.
Along the way I would surely get tired of it, and would love to hand it
over to someone else -- but provided that someone shares the vision it
was set up with, and is going to run it as well, if not better.

==

Re: [Goanet]A public apology to Dr. Helekar

--- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>After reviewing the record, I hereby withdraw my
>assertion that Dr. Helekar is a defender of
>Aids-infected drug users, and issue a public apology
>in the spirit of JoeGoaUk.
> 

Dear Mr. Goveia,

Thanks for that. It is always good to speak one's
mind. I applaud you on that front.

>
> If you say so.  However, we will never know what
> REALLY goes on behind that computer screen, will we,
> now that you have disclosed that many of your
> statements are ploys?
> 

You are right. There is no way for me to prove that.
But some would say that it is better to lose one's
cool than to use a ploy. So I am actually admitting to
committing a graver offense. That should count for
something. Unless of course, all of this is a ploy.
Nobody other than myself would ever know that. That is
the nature of our consciousness. It is entirely
private. That is why it is the last uncharted frontier
of science.

Cheers,

Santosh

Re: [Goanet]Ismael Merchant Dies.

2005-05-26 Thread eric pinto

Thank you, Gabriel, it was Jennifer. She went too
soon, had asked that her ashes be spread over her
beloved  Baga bay.  Will post the Times obit, and a
note here, Ivory and Merchant were not gay. eric.
--- Gabriel de Figueiredo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Eric,
> 
> It was Jennifer that Sashi Kapoor got married to, I
> think, as Jennifer Kendall was still in London in
> the
> 1980s acting in many a TV role ...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gabriel.
> 
> --- eric pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > At 68,  in London.  His Shakespearwalla brought
> the
> > revered Kendalls to India, introduced Sashi Kapoor
> > to
> > his beloved Felicity and made them all Goa lovers
> > and
> > residents.  He told us of a big debt to St.
> Xavier's
> > College in Bombay, wrote a large in New York to
> > prove
> > it.  RIP.eric.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __ 
> > Yahoo! Mail Mobile 
> > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> > mobile phone. 
> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo!
> Movies.
> http://au.movies.yahoo.com
> 
> 



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[Goanet]Re: Points made by Cecil Pinto

Hi Cornel

I have read that there were caste-based Goans clubs in East Africa (I am not 
sure of the current
situation). Did this practice end?  Is it your feeling that Goans who returned 
to Goa or migrated
to Canada, Australia, UK, etc. left their prejudices behind?  I don't mean to 
single out East
African Goans, but I am asking since that is the thread.

Regards,
George

--- cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Cecil,
> I am puzzled by the specific point you make that: " the large numbers of 
> East African Goans who brought their prejudices back with them, when in Goa 
> itself these same caste prejudices were on their way out".  You may indeed 
> know more about this than I do, and I therefore hope you will find the time 
> to elaborate on your contention please.

[Goanet]RE: subjects for discussion

2005-05-26 Thread Joaquim DeSouza

Dear Administrator,
Can I make a suggestion of topics for this weeks' discussion so we can move
to a more progressive approach:

1. How can we assist (in any method) to improve communication network i.e.
internet, phones.wifi,wimax in GOA.
2. How can we set up a system including desalination to guarantee drinking
water in Goa ( forget the weels they are almost all polluted by groundwater
contamination)
3. How can we ensure that people who have a motor vehicle have a valid
driving license after doing the driving tests and did not bribe anyone?
4. How can we improve the Health response time with ambulances or 24 hour
TRAUMA centre in GOA.
5. How can we arrest criminals who sell real estate with so called POA (
Powers of Attorney) and have no legal capacity to convey title.

Thank you
Dr. Joaquim De Souza

[Goanet]Re: Taking a vacation from logic

--- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Marxism-Leninism is an atheistic philosophy, which is why a Catholic 
> Marxist-Leninist Priest
> would be a genuine oxymoron.  

In theory yes.  However, they were Catholic priests who were accused by the 
Vatican of having
Marxist philosophies.  The Vatican set up this oxymoron and it is one of the 
problems I have with
their opposition to Liberation Theology.  Jose repeated the Marxist connection. 
I think the burden
in on the those who accuse the liberation theologists of being Marxist to 
demonstrate how Catholic
priests can be Marxist at the same time.  I see it is easy to throw around the 
word Marxist with
people one disagrees with - as you have done with the Baathists below. 

> The last time I checked, Capitalism was an economic system which does not 
> include a
> religious component.

I did not say Capitalism had a religious component.  I wrote about the Church's 
alignment with
capitalism.

> the innocent Iraqis are being targeted and killed by suicidal Sunni 
> Marxist-Leninist Baathists, 

Innocent Iraqis are being targeted by Iraqis and have been caught in the 
crossfire of US coalition
forces too.  But Sunni Marxist-Leninist Baathists!  Is this comedy?  The Sunnis 
are atheists too?
Or did you forget to add Trostsky to the Marxist Leninist combo.  How about 
Sunni
Marxist-Leninsist-Trostsky-Stalinist-Socialist-anti-capitalist-anti-democratic-pro-Canadian
aids-infected Baathists.  Now, that should make you feel good.

> These are the same Sunni Marxist-Leninist Baathists, led by Saddam Hussein, 
> who had brutalized
> the majority of Iraqis for over 30 years,

Saddam Hussein killed about 500,000 of his people, perhaps more.  Capitalism 
and its quest for oil
control has killed 100,000 in this war and about 200,000 in the first gulf war, 
including the
carpet bombing of retreating Iraqi solders.  Capitalism is currently losing the 
death count to
Saddam.  With his imprisonment and impending execution, capitalism will catch 
up.

Regards,
George

Re: [Goanet]Emails from Mario Goveia's address

Folks, will someone please translate the gibberish in
Mervyn's post below?  His high school Grammar teacher
would have a fit. 

By the way, Mervyn, a proud second-class Canadian
(according to his in-laws) studiously ignored my post
of May 24, titled, "Why no Canadian issues posted by
Goan Canadians?" where I asked why Goan Canadians were
obsessed by the dominating shadow of the US and never
posted anything about the social and economic mess in
Canada?

--- Mervyn Lobo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Het someone(s):
> When your'll started posting here, your'll unsigned
> posts where full of "bovine excrement." The above
> term is not used any more. 
> 
> Now I have a small request, can your'll who are
> sending email from the above address please sign
> your'll email?
>

Re: [Goanet]Hell Raiser- 2

--- Alfred de Tavares <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> My dear Mario,
> How could poor Cecil, you or I, ever find out,
hopefully later than sooner "what heaven or hell is
exactly like".

Mario replies:
Alfred, be patient, we will all find out when we get
there.  You are already giving me a taste of HELL with
your questions.  Maybe such important religious
questions should be better addressed to our resident
religious expert, Padre Ivo.

[Goanet]RE: Alfred de Tavares' 3 piece v 7 piece sartorialism

2005-05-26 Thread jose colaco


From: "Alfred de Tavares" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>My dear dotor Joe,

you soudly obfuscate my vision of a dandy a lá beu Brummel.

We, Joe dear, have beem fitted, however obtrusely, with 3-piece suitts: 
Trousers, vest and jacket/coat.


Does the 7-piece sartorialization you profer include 'cashti' and all?

Alfred




Mogal Alfredo Chacha,

I prefer not to describe a 3 piece Sartorial arrangement in a public forum.  
The Censors at GoaNet might admonish me for being "Inappropriate" (:-)


A proper 4  piece is also called "Window Dressing" in some parts of our 
Sashtti


1 Jacket, 1 Shirt, 1 Tie ani 1 Kashti

just saw amchem Cynthia's contribution. All I'd say to her is she ain't 
been to Sashti!


(:-)

jc


please see authentic kashti reference to  Livia de Abreu Noronha's script at

http://www.colaco.net/1/kashti.htm

President Pandurang of the Independent Republic of Chimbel also weighs in 
with these thoughts


"The kashti will always secure what lies in front of us - our future, and at 
the same time, provide us full knowledge of and free access to what lies 
behind us - our past. "


http://www.colaco.net/1/SantoshKashtidefence.htm

Other Kashti thoughts from Victor Rangel-Ribeiro, Aloysius D'Souza and 
Vivian A. D'Souza are at


http://www.colaco.net/1/MoreKashti.htm

cheers!

jc

jc



Der Kashtti is only used if there is a contralateral window

it then becomes 4 piece

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[Goanet]RE: [The Goan Forum d-list] Re: George and "going after John Paul II" - final

2005-05-26 Thread Cynthia Fernandes

Hey Alfred

Even if you have counted the kasti or the langoti . its does not tally 
to 7 pieces probably he is counting the "assests" t.

Cynthia

From: "Alfred de Tavares" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], goanet@goanet.org
Subject: RE: [The Goan Forum d-list] Re: George and "going after John Paul 
II" - final

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>From: "jose colaco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: goanet@goanet.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [The Goan Forum d-list] Re: George and "going after John Paul 
II"

>- final
>Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 12:13:40 +
>
>George Pinto wrote: about "George goes at John Paul II".  I have changed the subject line in
>keeping with the topic>
>
>
>Good Morning George.
>
>The above is fine by me, George. Dressing up in a 7 piece suit will not
>make
>me an aristocrat. It is an indisputable fact that (as is the norm on 
these
>lists - please check the archives) you, George have once again "gone 
after"

>John Paul II.
>
My dear dotor Joe,

you soudly obfuscate my vision of a dandy a lá beu Brummel.

We, Joe dear, have beem fitted, however obtrusely, with 3-piece suitts:
Trousers, vest and jacket/coat.

Does the 7-piece sartorialization you profer include 'cashti' and all?

Alfred

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[Goanet]A public apology to Dr. Helekar

Santosh Helekar wrote:
This I would consider is name-calling: "DEFENDER OF
AIDS-INFECTED DRUG USERS"

Mario replies:
After reviewing the record, I hereby withdraw my
assertion that Dr. Helekar is a defender of
Aids-infected drug users, and issue a public apology
in the spirit of JoeGoaUk.

Santosh Helekar continues:
But I have never lost my cool.

Mario replies:
If you say so.  However, we will never know what
REALLY goes on behind that computer screen, will we,
now that you have disclosed that many of your
statements are ploys?

Re: [Goanet] Can Dr. Helekar admit he lost his cool?

--- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I have used one of the following strategies in my
>responses, all done in a deliberate manner to simply
>discourage my opponent in debate from persisting in
>such name-calling:
>
> 
>4. I have sent in an over-dramatized response,
>consisting of what one Goanet Administrator referred
>to as "adjective-laced admonishment".
> 

I am sorry, I forgot to add the following option to my
list of choice actions:

5. I have directly requested my opponent in debate to
stop attacking me or calling me names, especially when
I know from his/her history that he/she is capable of
showing respect and common courtesy.

Cheers,

Santosh

[Goanet]Ugharit - Truth in Labelling !!

2005-05-26 Thread eric pinto

Thank  you, Alfredo.  Since the edict applies to
merchandise, i am free to disclaim a connection and
tell you my language is called 'Culture', if you get
the picture: in much the same vein, the Oxford tome on
lexicon claims a "indo-european" origin for precursor
words that are so clearly sanskrit. Perhaps it is the
frost, but the Finns are the only group who can bring
themselves to say they speak Finno-Ugarit, not so the
Hungarians, Esthonians(Asthanya!) or
Latvians(Lahtvyaa!). Perhaps a primitive compass could
only track the 40th longitude, they stayed in line
from Erithrea on north: every last Finnish surname can
be found in Asmara. Finn myth and lore revolves around
their beloved 'Kalavalla', their version of a Gita -
not to hurt feelings here.  The related Karalia became
extinct only in th 20th century after Russian
encroachment on their eastern  territory.  eric.

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[Goanet]Re: Homosexuality normal / abnormal 2

--- Joaquim DeSouza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>As you will recall that I did include in my e mail a
>copyright at the bottom of article concerning the
same
>Association.
>

Dear Dr. DeSouza,

Yes, I do recall. Thanks for that. My response was
specifically to Kevin because it was clear from his
post that he did not know the source of your
information. Perhaps, he failed to catch that source
reference at the bottom. I hope you contribute to this
forum more frequently.

Cheers,

Santosh

Re: [Goanet]UPDATE ON DEFENCE PLANNING

2005-05-26 Thread Gabriel de Figueiredo

Phillip,

I think the Defence Forces are taking a stance that
Defence is first and foremost, to hell with the
population, not realising that the first "collateral
damage" suffered by will be the civvies. Their
paranoia has become so acute that they have lost focus
on what or who they are trying to defend and from
whom.  It appears more of a "mine is bigger than
yours" attitude with respect to the size of the
Defence Forces and stockpiles of weapons. 

Take for example "Photography is Prohobited" sign (I
wonder if it is still there in its original wording) -
any "spy" worth his salt can wear a high-def webcam,
in his sun-shades if he wants to do any of the James
Bond stuff, and no one will be the wiser. So to what
benefit the sign?  

Cheers,

Gabriel de Figueiredo
Melbourne - Australia.

--- Philip Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In TIMES OF INDIA May 25 there is an op-ed piece by
> P.R. Chari titled
> "Pokhran was a mistake".  

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Re: [Goanet]Science, & religion

--- sandeep heble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In his essay "Is There a God? the great Philosopher
> Bertrand Russell wrote: 
> 
> The history of religion has been that of conflict,
violence, and one atrocity after another, all in the
name of God.

Mario points out:
Bertrand Russell was frequently quite delusional. 
While it is true that many conflicts have been, and
are being, caused by religious zealots, let's not get
carried away by the obvious anti-religious zealotry
being displayed here.

Some of the worst tyrants in history were
anti-religious atheists, such as Hitler, Stalin,
Lenin, Mao Tse Tung, Fidel Castro, the Viet Cong, Pol
Pot and Saddam Hussain.

The post continues:
Throughout its course, religion has been an impediment
to human progress. Unlike a free society which
flourishes with the advancement of knowledge, religion
always harkens back to a previous age. It is founded
on unchangeable dogma that has been established in a
far distant past. Its fixed ideas and ideologies have
become the enemy of progress.  
> 
It is no exaggeration to say that the future progress
of human society will be impaired

Mario points out again:
The statements above are not only gross exaggerations
worthy of a high school essay, but gross
generalizations as well.  While some religions and
their corresponding attitudes have surely been an
impediment to progress, primarily in the middle-east,
the western societies, where most of the progress in
recent decades has come from, have co-existed quite
comfortably with religion.  Not to mention the recent
progress in India, where religion and science co-exist
as well.

Re: [Goanet]Violence Against Women Rampant in Asia

Gabe, for you to compare the violence against women in
Asia due to "unpaid dowries" with interrogations of
battlefield combatants sworn to kill Americans, and
who do not fall under the Geneva Conventions, shows
how low some anti-Americans who were perhaps denied
residency visas, have sunk.

Interrogating battlefield combatants is not a license
to anyone to "commit abuse with impunity", which makes
Amnesty International's assertions bogus.  American's
who have been accused of wrongdoing, mostly by their
fellow Americans, are all being prosecuted and
punished if found guilty.

--- Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 25/05/05, Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Violence Against Women Rampant in Asia
> 
> > KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia -- Violence and systematic
> > discrimination against women was rampant in Asia
> last
> > year, ranging from acid attacks for unpaid dowries
> in
> > Bangladesh to forced abortion in China, rape by
> > soldiers in Nepal and domestic beatings in
> Australia,
> > Amnesty International said.
> 
> RESPONSE: Amnesty had this to say about the USA too!
> :
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4580991.stm
> 
> Amnesty accuses US over 'torture'
> US soldiers with Iraqi detainees
> The US is accused of damaging human rights across
> the world
> Governments around the world betrayed their
> commitment to human rights
> in 2004, Amnesty International says.
> 
> In a 300-page annual report, the group accused the
> US government of
> damaging human rights with its attitude to torture
> and treatment of
> detainees.
> 
> This granted "a licence to others to commit abuse
> with impunity", the
> human rights advocates said.
> ...
> 
>

Re: [Goanet]Taking a vacation from logic

--- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jose wrote:  
> > Did it not strike you that A Catholic
> Marxist-Leninist Priest would be an epitomy of an
> Oxymoron?
> 
George replied illogically:
> Logically, it could also follow that a Catholic
> Capitalist priest is an oxymoron.  After all the
> Catholic church was around before Adam Smith and
> capitalism as we know it.  It cannot now align
> with capitalism which would mean it was aligned with
> the wrong side prior to then.  If it does
> align with capitalism now, what about the ills of
> capitalism?  After all capitalism just killed a
> 100,000 people in Iraq.

Mario points out:
George, you need to cut the crap as well, and not turn
both facts and logic on their respective heads. 
Surely a learned professor like you would know that
Marxism-Leninism is an atheistic philosophy, which is
why a Catholic Marxist-Leninist Priest would be a
genuine oxymoron.  The last time I checked, Capitalism
was an economic system which does not include a
religious component.

To blame the LIBERATION by US-led forces of 50 million
Afghanis and Iraqis on an economic system is the
height of illogic, with all due respect.  Furthermore,
you seem to not be following the daily news, and so
have missed the fact that the innocent Iraqis are
being targeted and killed by suicidal Sunni
Marxist-Leninist Baathists, in their attempt to deny
freedom and democracy to the majority of Iraqis. 
These are the same Sunni Marxist-Leninist Baathists,
led by Saddam Hussein, who had brutalized the majority
of Iraqis for over 30 years, news of which also does
not seem to have filtered up to your ivory tower.

[Goanet]RE: [The Goan Forum d-list] Re: George and "going after John Paul II" - final

From: "jose colaco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: goanet@goanet.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [The Goan Forum d-list] Re: George and "going after John Paul II" 
- final

Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 12:13:40 +

George Pinto wrote: 

Good Morning George.

The above is fine by me, George. Dressing up in a 7 piece suit will not 
make

me an aristocrat. It is an indisputable fact that (as is the norm on these
lists - please check the archives) you, George have once again "gone after"
John Paul II.

My dear dotor Joe,

you soudly obfuscate my vision of a dandy a lá beu Brummel.

We, Joe dear, have beem fitted, however obtrusely, with 3-piece suitts:
Trousers, vest and jacket/coat.

Does the 7-piece sartorialization you profer include 'cashti' and all?

Alfred

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[Goanet]Emails from Mario Goveia's address

2005-05-26 Thread Mervyn Lobo

Someone using the address, Mario Goveia
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I always use epithets advisedly, and
> rarely retract real targeted name calling I have
> engaged in, as Mervyn will confirm.  

Het someone(s):
When your'll started posting here, your'll unsigned
posts where full of "bovine excrement." The above term
is not used any more. 

Now I have a small request, can your'll who are
sending email from the above address please sign
your'll email?

It will help the rest of us understand exactly who is
doing the, "real targeted name calling."

Mervyn3.0

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Re: [Goanet]Ismael Merchant Dies.

2005-05-26 Thread Gabriel de Figueiredo

Eric,

It was Jennifer that Sashi Kapoor got married to, I
think, as Jennifer Kendall was still in London in the
1980s acting in many a TV role ...

Cheers,

Gabriel.

--- eric pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 68,  in London.  His Shakespearwalla brought the
> revered Kendalls to India, introduced Sashi Kapoor
> to
> his beloved Felicity and made them all Goa lovers
> and
> residents.  He told us of a big debt to St. Xavier's
> College in Bombay, wrote a large in New York to
> prove
> it.  RIP.eric.
> 
> 
>   
> __ 
> Yahoo! Mail Mobile 
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> mobile phone. 
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail 
> 
> 

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Re: [Goanet]Science, religion and Dr Helekar


From: Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org
To: goanet@goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Science, religion and Dr Helekar
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 08:01:44 +0100

On 25/05/05, sandeep heble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In his essay "Is There a God?" the great Philosopher
> Bertrand Russell wrote:

.

The best I remember of Russel is his comment when philosophical nemesis,
Satre was awarded, and refused, the Nobel Prize for literature, with the 
statement:
"I do not wish to be remembered as the intellectual who was awarded the 
Nobel

Prize."

Rejoined Russel, "now he will be remembered as the one who refused the Nobel
Prize."

Alfred de T.

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RE: [Goanet]konkani Songs MP3 'Top collection' Vol.2...... a review

From: JoeGoaUk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org
To: goanet@goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]konkani Songs MP3  'Top collection'   Vol.2.. a review
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 08:21:01 +0100 (BST)

Manfa music has carefully selected 50 songs, all are good except the one 
sung by

Marcelin de Betim titled 'Don Panam'

All song was about Churchill and hence the title of the song should have 
been

'Churchill bab'

He says,
-Don Panan sent him Delhi by defeating Congress 'Hand'.
-As a Chief Minister, he has done so much in 15 days that others could not 
do in 15

years.
-Churchill is compared to Bahu Saib (First CM of Goa)
-Ghorjebhair teje misgotik gelear te politician urchenant.
-Xinkop asloleank and xinkop nasloleank tannem disco nachoila.
-Churchil bab zindabad

Dont know why this song was chosen, perhaps, the producers themselves are 
Churchill

supporters.

It may be ok, when it sung live in tiatr etc

We buy CD not just during the election time but as souvenir- to keep it 
going

through out its life time.

Thats only my opinion.

The song 'Viva La Goa' (by Aurvile & Melque) was my favourite.

for NRI related info...
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/

For info on Konkani VCDs (Films, Tiatr, Comedies and films on GOA...)
 http://konkani-vcd.swiki.net/1

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Re: [Goanet]Sottomayor /Sotomaior/Souto Maior

On 26/05/05, Teotonio R. de Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Name derived possibly from the valley of Souto, in Spain. Being a large
> locality, it was termed Maior. The first known user of it as family name was
> Paio Mendes Sorede de Sotomaior (XIII c.) married to Eremesenda Nunes
> Maldonado. The descendants moved to Portugal. Their 7th grandson, D. Pedro
> Alvares de Sottomayor, viscount of Tui and count of Caminha, lived for some
> years in Portugal after 1476. His descendant D- Pedro Taveira de Sottomayor,
> played an important role in the military campaigs of the "Restoration" 
> of..

> Teotonio R. de Souza

Question: How about Banco Pinto & Sotto Mayor? Is this Institution
also part of the family?


-- 
Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.
London, England

[Goanet]RE: USSR - unfriendly? - final

2005-05-26 Thread jose colaco


Jose Colaco wrote:
Is the same USSR which entraped Indian diplomats and military 'attaches'
with the help of Ruskie chicks (read KGB agents) and then blackmailed them
into photographing Indian trade secrets?
Is this the same USSR which dragged India into the quagmire of regressive
Socialist inertia?
Is this the same USSR that sold India suboptimal technology (for want of a
better of a better word)?
Is this the same USSR which "fought for democracy and against Imperialism
around the world" but kept the various "Soviet Gulags" and Cuba as its
colonies (read place to suppress Freedom)?
Is this the same USSR which cracked wide open?
A friend? ...give me a break!
Chains with weights tied round the feet is more like it.
No wonder the mindset of Indians ... is that Andaman is still Indian!
Bravo! I say to those who are still Commie-ized



response from >From: Cecil Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>..

Dear Jose,

I could as easily pick a number of similar points and prove how USA was 
unfriendly, or UK.


Anyway, I don't want to get involved in a 'international politics' debate 
that interests very few here on GoaNet *chuckle*. What I was trying to 
suggest to Bosco is that it is not fair to condemn an entire country, and 
its people, on the basis of a few decisions of its political leaders. 
Criticising an individual (eg. George Bush) or a party (eg. Republicans)  is 
acceptable but one doesn't refer to an entire country as 'unfriendly' or 
whatever.


Cheers!

Cecil

...response from JC...

Dear Cecil,

Thank you for you customary civility in discussion.

You are absolutely right wrt how YOU could "easily pick a number of similar 
points and prove how USA was unfriendly, or UK"


But that,  my dear Cecil,  is besides the point.

I do not believe Anybody said that the UK or US were friendly towards India. 
 Did anybody?


Now if you wish please review the post to which  I responded.

No mas

jc

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[Goanet]FOR ALL MUMS

2005-05-26 Thread Cyril Pereira

To the mom in all of us

A man came home from work and found his three children
outside, still in their pajamas, playing in the mud, with empty 
food boxes and wrappers strewn all around the front yard.
The door of his wife's car was open, as was the front door to 
the house and there was no sign of the dog.
Proceeding into the entry, he found an even bigger mess.
A lamp had been knocked over, and the throw rug was wadded 
against one wall.
In the front room the TV was loudly blaring a cartoon channel, 
and the family room was strewn with toys and various items of clothing.
In the kitchen, dishes filled the sink, breakfast food was 
spilled on the counter, the fridge door was open wide, dog food was
spilled on the floor, a broken glass lay under the table, and a small
pile of sand was spread by the back door. 
He quickly headed up the stairs, stepping over toys and more
piles of clothes, looking for his wife. He was worried she might be ill,
or that 
something serious had happened.
He was met with a small trickle of water as it made its way out 
the bathroom door. As he peered inside he found wet towels, scummy soap
and more toys strewn over the floor. Miles of toilet paper lay in a heap
and toothpaste had been smeared over the mirror and walls. 
As he rushed to the bedroom, he found his wife still curled up
in the bed in her pajamas, reading a novel. 
She looked up at him, smiled, and asked how his day went.
He looked at her bewildered and asked, "What happened here 
today?"
She again smiled and answered, "You know every day when you come 
home from work and you ask me what in the world did I do today?"
"Yes," was his incredulous reply.
She answered, "Well, today I didn't do it." 

CYRIL PEREIRA
  

 
TAN SALES (LONDON) LTD
UNIT B, COLINDALE BUSINESS PARK
2/10 CARLISLE ROAD
LONDON NW9 0HN
ENGLAND

TEL: +44 20 8205 6881
FAX: +44 20 8205 6884 
EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
WEB: www.tansales.co.uk 

 
This message is for the designated recipient 
only and may contain privileged, proprietary, 
or otherwise private information.  If you have 
received it in error, please notify the sender 
immediately and delete the original. Any 
other use of the email by you is prohibited.

[Goanet]Re: George and "going after John Paul II" - final

2005-05-26 Thread jose colaco

George Pinto wrote: about "George goes at John Paul II". I have changed the subject line in
keeping with the topic>

Good Morning George.

The above is fine by me, George. Dressing up in a 7 piece suit will not make
me an aristocrat. It is an indisputable fact that (as is the norm on these
lists - please check the archives) you, George have once again "gone after"
John Paul II.

When I pointed out John Paul's opposition to the Marxisation of Liberation
Theology in Latin America, you attempt to shift the goal post and now state
that :priests/nuns/bishops/cardinals/popes be involved in politics? Should
their non-involvement in a world full of injustices be considered
un-Catholic? >

The "bigger issue" is an excellent topic for another day, George. For now,I
will stick to the topic You raised. i.e. John Paul and Liberation
Theology...which (minus the Marxist hijacking) is a product of Vatican II.

re: my (JC) assertion that A Catholic Marxist-Leninist Priest would be an
epitomy of an Oxymoron, you write < Logically, it could also follow that a
Catholic Capitalist priest is an oxymoron.>

I agree with you - but NOT because any capitalist country would prohibit
Freedom of Religious Worship as the Marxists have done - albeit, step by
step.

BTW: Please see comments of Fr. Drinan who was asked by the Vatican to
resign his seat from the US Congress (excerpt at foot of this message).

You note that :it. It cannot now align with capitalism which would mean it was aligned
with the wrong side prior to then. If it does align with capitalism now,
what about the ills of capitalism? After all capitalism just killed a
100,000 people in Iraq>

I repeat my believe that the Church should stay out of partisan politics
...and Marxism, Leninism or Stalinism too. After all Stalinism killed 20
million people in Russia alone.

Look George, I believe I have said all I have to say about this matter save
to add that a distinct anti-"white" foundation runs through your posts.(I
would have understood it IF it was as a counter to some radical Rt. Wing
Aryan group was posting here) but I see in my file a distinct streak of
racism in your postings - whether it be re: John Paul II, the election of
new Pope (Benedict), St Francis Xavier, Mother Teresa or even the late
Archbishop Alan Basil de Lastic.

With that, I will stop here now. Yours will be the final word on this
matter.

Have a good day and a good rest of the week.

sincerely

Meet the Press March 27, 2005
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7284978/
MR. RUSSERT: You are a Catholic priest, a Jesuit. You are also a member of
Congress, and then the pope told you, "Get out of politics." What was it
like when you received that order?

REV. DRINAN: Well, it's a little more complicated than that. They changed
canon law. I had the permission of Cardinal Cushing to run for Congress,
and he was enthusiastic about it. There were three or four Catholic priests
in politics in Latin America, and they were contentious, and they were now
revising canon law. So all that the pope did was to centralize the
decision. A bishop can't do it anymore, the Holy See has to do it.

And if you want to see some up-side to it, after I left Congress, I was in
Brazil, talking to some priests over there, and one priest said to me, "We
wept for you," but that if priests were allowed to enter the Congress all
over the world, we would have people who were very conservative, fascists,
the brothers of generals becoming elected in Latin America.

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[Goanet]Re: Points made by Cecil Pinto

2005-05-26 Thread cornel


Hi Cecil,
I am puzzled by the specific point you make that: " the large numbers of 
East African Goans who brought their prejudices back with them, when in Goa 
itself these same caste prejudices were on their way out".  You may indeed 
know more about this than I do, and I therefore hope you will find the time 
to elaborate on your contention please.


However, for now, notwithstanding my lack of ready statistical evidence, on 
the pattern of the outflow of the Goans from East Africa, but as an informed 
former East African Goan, I am sceptical about what you say for the 
following reasons:
Those East African Goans who returned to Goa, permanently, following the 
general outflow from E. Africa would have been a small minority of older 
Goans. Sequentially, the vast majority went to the UK first, then to Canada 
and smaller numbers went to the USA and Australia/NZ. Of these, there was a 
further movement (sometimes, to and fro) between these countries for 
settlement purposes. The younger Goans who returned to Goa, often took up 
jobs in the then booming Gulf economies and sometimes moved on to the West 
or even took up temporary work contracts back in East Africa.


Numbers, of course, have stayed on in East Africa and never left as such, 
even the relatively few from Uganda, (for complex reasons), following Idi 
Amin's 1972 expulsion order.  Consequently, I can't see how there could 
possibly have been anything like a critical mass, able to reintroduce caste 
practice in Goa itself from East Africa. Further, I really have to question 
your point that this happened "when in Goa itself these same caste 
prejudices were on their way out."  Has caste ever been on its way out from 
Goa except as a form of export?


I'd also like to take this opportunity to note two other points linked to 
recent related correspondence  on Goanet:
a) I believe that those who have expressed their enthusiasm for return to 
Goa from the more distant Goan Diaspora, invariably hang on to their foreign 
passports and do not, (unless 'forced' to), settle for Indian nationality 
which would surely be the firmest test of their intentions.
b) re Mario's point about the occupations of the Goans in East Africa, by 
and large, they were in lower middle-class occupations, predominantly in the 
civil service but also in banking, insurance and other similar openings. 
They generally provided reliable clerical services for generations. However, 
there were others in the professions like doctors, engineers, architects, 
teachers, including school principals, and higher administrative workers, 
managers and lawyers too. There were still others in the catering and 
technical services and in enterprises like tailoring, pharmacy, the 
motor/transport trade, hotel and tourist services and in varied businesses.

Regards,
Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.


Also Fred lives in Saligao, which despite a veneer of advancement still
has a lot of caste discrimination among the Catholics. This is mostly
because of the large number of East African Goans who brought their
prejudices back with them, when in Goa itself these same caste prejudices
were on their way out.

Re: [Goanet]Hell Raiser- 2

From: Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org
To: goanet@goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Hell Raiser- 2
Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 07:04:20 -0700 (PDT)

--- Cecil Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Mario,
>
> You don't quite understand. I am a very serious
person in certain matters.  Since you spoke so much
about a HELL it is but appropriate that you explain
to us what hell is.  Or don't you have a clue either?
>
> If you were speaking in jest, or just shooting off
your mouth, then just say so. I will understand and
ask someone who knows if indeed there is a hell and
what it is supposed to be like.
>
Mario replies:
Cecil, you will find out soon enough what heaven or
hell is exactly like.

My dear Mario,
Your above statement leaves totally askance:

How could poor Cecil, you or I, ever find out, hopefully
later than sooner "what heaven or hell is exactly like".

With the exception of JC, who sojourned down under a
couple of days after his terrible ordeal on the Calvary,
and was fully cognizant of heaven before and has been
since then I know of no other, except characters in "Mangy
jokes" that have experienced both.

You do put us in an advanced theological connundrum.

If poor C. goes down there will he be enabled to fetch
his water-melons, considering reported high degrees of
temperature obtained in the intrepid Luciffer's kingdom?

My only source for the obligatory permanent 'sauna' available
there is old Dante.

Could you please enlighten?

Alfred de T.

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Re: [Goanet]Goa's Forts


Jorge,

haven't you forgotten Anjediva. I think that was the
very first bastion erected by the Portuguese in that
region of Malabar.

The Rachol fortifications played an important role in the
Christianization of South Goa. The village must be a
veritable mine of archaological goodies.

Alfred


From: "Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org
To: "Goanet" 
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goa's Forts
Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 19:03:12 +0200

Some other forts that I can remember:

Corjuem, on the island of the same name, belonging to Aldona village

Betul (a very small fort)

Cabo de Rama, in Canacona taluka

Alorna (or Halarn) fort in Pernem taluka

Nanuz  (or remnants of it) in Satari taluka

Long walls and the "Viceroys' Arch" which belonged to the fort surrounding
Old Goa

The arch which was part of the Rachol fort.

There are remnants of a fort also at Dona Paula.

And there used to be a small fort, called "Gaspar Dias" fort, in the
locality which itself used to be
known as Gaspar Dias and is now called Miramar, between Panjim and
Caranzalem.

Jorge

- Original Message -
From: JoeGoaUk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 9:50 AM
Subject: [Goanet]Goa's Forts


> corrected..
>
>  This is not a game pl.
> ===
>
> Can any one help??
>
> Just want to know the names of all Forts in Goa including its location.
>
> No matter how small or big, whether just a wall remains etc (it can be
even just
> outside Goa)
>
> You just name it (if u know, with location) and I will do the rest.
>
> Following Forts I have been so far:
>
> Fort Aguada (light House)
>
> Sinquerim (Taj)
>
> Chapora (vagator)
>
> Reis Magos (opp Inox)
>
> Tirakol
>
>
> Pl add on..
>
>
> Upon reading  news item on Navhind Times on 15th May 2005, we headed for
chandor
> only to find no Fort there. (it was said it is located near the ancient
11th century
> Kandamba  Shiva Temple) there, we ask a house of 3 people, some youth at
the road
> junction next to the temple site, and a shop none of them were aware of
the said
> fort, Knocked at the doors of two old portuguese houses but no answer,  
we

came home
> disapointed.  I am sure there is one but the locals are not aware of it.
They even
> said the Ruins of Shiva Temple is the same as Fort.
>
> I wish the writer in the NT gave his contact details etc .
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Miramar
>
>




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RE: [Goanet]Learn Tamil, Speak Basque !!

From: eric pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org
To: goanet@goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Learn  Tamil,   Speak  Basque   !!
Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 10:38:19 -0700 (PDT)

They call themselves the Uzkhaddi, it is Vasco
locally, i have no idea of the Basque word origin,
guess we can blame our Cecil again, and as the Spanish
would say, Berry good.  They have 400 words in common
with Tamil, and not one with Sanskrit, so
Indo-European eludes them. They are the sole survivors
in Europe of the pre-Ugarithic diaspora, a post-Bantu
people who dominated the Rift Valley, the Nile Valley,
and lost the Indo-Gangetic plain to you can guess who
!  Someday soon, i am convinced, Cornel will prevail,
and Gilbert will be banished to his former lair: the
the King Edward Memorial and Tata Cancer Surgical
Consultancy !eric.

Eric, do you know if Finnish has any ties/origin the
Ugarithic language.

Or, if you know how it originated?

It is not akin to any of the Scandinavian tongues, nor Russia, nor
the Baltic ones.
Alfred

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[Goanet]Goan-Canadian or Canadian-Goan? What is the right term?

2005-05-26 Thread Cecil Pinto


Bosco D'Mello wrote:
I am after all a GOAN CANADIAN!

=

[Goanet]USSR - unfriendly?

2005-05-26 Thread Cecil Pinto


Jose Colaco wrote:
Is the same USSR which entraped Indian diplomats and military 'attaches'
with the help of Ruskie chicks (read KGB agents) and then blackmailed them
into photographing Indian trade secrets?
Is this the same USSR which dragged India into the quagmire of regressive
Socialist inertia?
Is this the same USSR that sold India suboptimal technology (for want of a
better of a better word)?
Is this the same USSR which "fought for democracy and against Imperialism
around the world" but kept the various "Soviet Gulags" and Cuba as its
colonies (read place to suppress Freedom)?
Is this the same USSR which cracked wide open?
A friend? ...give me a break!
Chains with weights tied round the feet is more like it.
No wonder the mindset of Indians ... is that Andaman is still Indian!
Bravo! I say to those who are still Commie-ized



Dear Jose,

I could as easily pick a number of similar points and prove how USA was 
unfriendly, or UK.


Anyway, I don't want to get involved in a 'international politics' debate 
that interests very few here on GoaNet *chuckle*. What I was trying to 
suggest to Bosco is that it is not fair to condemn an entire country, and 
its people, on the basis of a few decisions of its political leaders. 
Criticising an individual (eg. George Bush) or a party (eg. 
Republicans)  is acceptable but one doesn't refer to an entire country as 
'unfriendly' or whatever.


Cheers!

Cecil

[Goanet]Amnesty report slams Gujarat, USA....

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200505260360.htm

Amnesty report slams Gujarat on rights violation

Kochi, May 26 (UNI): Stating that perpetrators of human rights
violations continued to enjoy immunity from punishment in many cases,
Amnesty International today said the Gujarat state authorities had
failed to bring to book those responsible for widespread violence in
2002.

In its annual report for 2005, simultaneously released in London and
here on Wednesday, the international human rights watchdog also
slammed the US Government for displaying a "huge gap between rhetoric
and reality" in its "repeated use of the language of justice and
freedom."

This gap was starkly illustrated by the failure to conduct a full and
independent investigation into the appalling torture and ill-treatment
of detainees by US soldiers in Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and the
failure to hold senior individuals to account.

"The USA, as the unrivalled political, military and economic
hyper-power, sets the tone for governmental behaviour worldwide.

When the most powerful country in the world thumbs its nose at the
rule of law and human rights, it grants a licence to others to commit
abuse with impunity," Amnesty International Secretary General, Irene
Khan, said in the report.

Receiving the copy of the report here, former Kerala High Court judge,
K N Kurup, said human rights violations were not taking place only in
custody.

"Even the lack of clean drinking water and air is a violation of the
basic human right to live with dignity," he said.

Among the other "violations" in India, the Amnesty International
report alleged that security legislation was used to "facilitate
arbitrary arrests, torture and other grave human rights violations,
often against political opponents and marginalised groups."

In the north-eastern state of Manipur, local groups opposed human
rights violations under the Armed Forced Special Powers Act and called
for its repeal, the report noted.

It also observed that India still lacked comprehensive legislation
addressing domestic violence and had failed to submit "overdue
periodic reports" to the UN Committee on the Elimination of
Discrimination against Women.

On the continuing tragedy following the 1984 Bhopal gas leak disaster,
the AI said that the site had still not been cleared up and toxic
wastes continued to pollute the environment and groundwater.

"No one had been held responsible for the leak," it added. 
-- 
Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.
London, England

Re: [Goanet]Violence Against Women Rampant in Asia

On 25/05/05, Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Violence Against Women Rampant in Asia

> KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia -- Violence and systematic
> discrimination against women was rampant in Asia last
> year, ranging from acid attacks for unpaid dowries in
> Bangladesh to forced abortion in China, rape by
> soldiers in Nepal and domestic beatings in Australia,
> Amnesty International said.

RESPONSE: Amnesty had this to say about the USA too! :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4580991.stm

Amnesty accuses US over 'torture'
US soldiers with Iraqi detainees
The US is accused of damaging human rights across the world
Governments around the world betrayed their commitment to human rights
in 2004, Amnesty International says.

In a 300-page annual report, the group accused the US government of
damaging human rights with its attitude to torture and treatment of
detainees.

This granted "a licence to others to commit abuse with impunity", the
human rights advocates said. ...

[Goanet]Sottomayor /Sotomaior/Souto Maior

2005-05-26 Thread Teotonio R. de Souza

Name derived possibly from the valley of Souto, in Spain. Being a large
locality, it was termed Maior. The first known user of it as family name was
Paio Mendes Sorede de Sotomaior (XIII c.) married to Eremesenda Nunes
Maldonado. The descendants moved to Portugal. Their 7th grandson, D. Pedro
Alvares de Sottomayor, viscount of Tui and count of Caminha, lived for some
years in Portugal after 1476. His descendant D- Pedro Taveira de Sottomayor,
played an important role in the military campaigs of the "Restoration" of
Portugal's independence from the Spanish rule in the mid 17th century. As
compensation for these services, king John IV of Portugal confirmed him as 
Dom", and as "very noble". He left numerous progeny that continued to use
the family name. Their coat of arms have  silver background, with three gold
and red chess-bands. It also displays a red lion.

There is no Sottomayor in any of the graveyard inscriptions recorded and
printed by Brás Fernandes in his *Armas e Inscrições do forte de Baçaim*
(Lisboa, Portuguese Academy of History, 1959)  where many prominent white
Portuguese descendants had their fortunes in India. However, Vol. III of
Jorge Forjaz, *Os luso-descendentes da India Portuguesa* (Lisboa, Fundação
Oriente, 2nd ed., 2003) has 8 pages for this family (pp. 785-792). D.
Lourenço de Souto-Maior goes from Mozambique to India in 1609, and was
captain of the northern fleet in 1613. Another, D. Francisco de Alarcão de
Souto-maior came to India with the governor D. Rodrigo da Costa in 1707 and
died in 1722. Occupied important posts in the navy. D. Diogo Manuel de
Soouto-maior was born and died in Goa. Was captain of Daman and Diu in 1750s
 Belonged to the Misericordia de Goa. There is a Luis Filipe Valadares de
Souto-Maior buried in the Church of Reis Magos (Consult the writings of
Ricardo Micael Telles in *Oriente Português* for more details).  Consult
also Goanet archives: http://www.goanet
org/pipermail/goanet-news/2004-February/000552.html



Teotonio R. de Souza

RE: [Goanet]Re: Homosexuality normal / abnormal 2

2005-05-26 Thread Joaquim DeSouza

Dear Santosh,
Thank you for putting up the link to website for the American Psychological
Association. As you will recall that I did include in my e mail a copyright
at the bottom of article concerning the same Association. Another site which
you may find of interest for all involved in this discussion on
homosexuality is http://www.jeffreymichael.com/glbt_links.htm 

I generally sit on the sidelines and read all the messages which fly on the
Goa-Net and its noteworthy that everyone should contribute in the
discussions as this is the only way we can finally destroy the myths and
find the truth however bitter it may be for some to accept. We just
Have to take one day at a time and then overcome the prejudices which we
have been brain washed to believe as being absolute truths.  There are
no absolute truths just discoveries!
Kind Regards
Dr. Joaquim DeSouza 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Santosh Helekar
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; goanet@goanet.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
jose colaco
Subject: [Goanet]Re: Homosexuality normal / abnormal 2

Kevin Saldanha wrote:
>
>A few comments made by various learned people
recently >made me question the level of common knowledge about
>homosexuality until Dr. Joaquim DeSouza took the time
>and trouble to get us all on the same page.
>

It is important to point out that the information on homosexuality that Dr.
Joaquim DeSouza posted is taken from the following website of the American
Psychological Association:

http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html

Those who have followed this discussion on Goanet might remember that it was
posted for the first time in that forum about a couple of weeks back with
the proper link.

Cheers,

Santosh

[Goanet]konkani Songs MP3 'Top collection' Vol.2...... a review

2005-05-26 Thread JoeGoaUk


Manfa music has carefully selected 50 songs, all are good except the one sung by
Marcelin de Betim titled 'Don Panam'

All song was about Churchill and hence the title of the song should have been
'Churchill bab'

He says, 
-Don Panan sent him Delhi by defeating Congress 'Hand'.
-As a Chief Minister, he has done so much in 15 days that others could not do 
in 15
years.
-Churchill is compared to Bahu Saib (First CM of Goa)
-Ghorjebhair teje misgotik gelear te politician urchenant.
-Xinkop asloleank and xinkop nasloleank tannem disco nachoila.
-Churchil bab zindabad

Dont know why this song was chosen, perhaps, the producers themselves are 
Churchill
supporters.

It may be ok, when it sung live in tiatr etc 

We buy CD not just during the election time but as souvenir- to keep it going
through out its life time.

Thats only my opinion. 

The song 'Viva La Goa' (by Aurvile & Melque) was my favourite.




for NRI related info... 
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/ 

For info on Konkani VCDs (Films, Tiatr, Comedies and films on GOA...)
 http://konkani-vcd.swiki.net/1
















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Re: [Goanet]Science, religion and Dr Helekar

On 25/05/05, sandeep heble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In his essay "Is There a God?" the great Philosopher
> Bertrand Russell wrote:

. 
> It is no exaggeration to say that the future progress
> of human society will be impaired by the continuing
> influence of superstition, pseudoscience, and religion
> in public and state affairs. What kind of World do we
> wish to live in; do we wish to live in a World that
> builds barriers and promotes violence and hatred in
> the name of God? Do we wish to live in a World where
> superstitions and myths continue to play strong roles
> in the society? Must Religion be allowed to warp a
> child's mind from being inquiring, or acquiring a
> thirst for knowledge? Does freedom of religion mean
> the freedom to impose religious dogma on society? Does
> freedom of religion mean the right of religious
> believers to use public forums, facilities and
> resources to promote their irrational beliefs?
> Cheers
> Sandeep Heble
> Panaji-Goa



RESPONSE: Nice article, which brings us to the moot point. India and
Indians are a deeply religious lot. Hence progress will be impaired.
Europe on the other hand is moving away from religion, so we should
see much progress? So Halur your contention that India will achieve
much seems at variance with Sandeep.

Gabe Menezes.
London England.

Re: [Goanet] Can Dr. Helekar admit he lost his cool?