Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
--- Bernado Colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MG, Try telling that (invasion) to Ivo Morales. Mario replies: BC, Ivo Morales can read my well known views about who invaded whom, and who was finally pushed out by whom, in the Goanet archives. MG _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
MG, Try telling that (invasion) to Ivo Morales. BC Bernardo, I define pucca as one who can vote. BTW, I think you are all confused as to what invaders means. One cannot invade one's own country or territory. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
--- Cornel writes: Jorge Thank you for demolishing the myth Mario created regarding his surname contributing to the name of a village in Portugal. Any Johnny- come-lately would know that Portuguese sourced Goan surnames were a consequence of Portuguese sourced activity, including naming, in Goa, and not the other way around. --- Paulo Colaco Dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This reminds me of a story of a Goan chap I met many years ago here in London. He had just arrived in London and was looking at the phone directory (book) and came across several pages of Fernandes, Souza, Silva, etc. At first I had not realised what he was doing with the phone directory but then he made the following remark: -There are so many Goans in London!! Mario observes: Paulo, What Cornel's comments should have reminded you of was a person with absolutely no sense of humor or irony. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Cornel, You are obviously confused as to how the Portuguese got their surnames, probably by swallowing Portuguese colonial propaganda hook, line and sinker :-)) All Jorge has done is to bring us up-to-date on the fact that Gouveia is now a thriving city in Portugal whereas it was a village when named after my family some 450 years ago :-)) If you visit Portugal you will see that almost all their surnames were copied from us Goan Catholics :-)) --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jorge Thank you for demolishing the myth Mario created regarding his surname contributing to the name of a village in Portugal. Any Johnny- come-lately would know that Portuguese sourced Goan surnames were a consequence of Portuguese sourced activity, including naming, in Goa, and not the other way round! Cornel _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
--- Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha wrote: (1) There is no village with that name in Portugal, but a city which has about 4,000 inhabitants and is the headquarters of a concelho (= taluka) and of a comarca (= judicial district) having 22 freguesias (firgozo in Konkani) and 17,000 inhabitants; (2) The name of the city is spelt Gouveiaand not Goveia as is Mario's surname; (3) The said Portuguese city exists at least since the 12th century. It has textile, milk products and ceramic industries, and is situated at an altitude of 550-600 metres. Mario replies: Jorge, Thanks for the updated information. When the city of Gouveia was named after my family about 450 years ago, it was still a village:-)) That was about the same time that the Portuguese people were beginning to adopt Goan Catholic surnames:-)) I'm glad to hear that it has since grown into a city. BTW, my great-grandfather dropped the u from our family name after migrating from Goa to India. I'm sure he had some excuse, but no one knows for sure what it was. Apparently, some other families also did the same, in Portugal as well as the new world. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
This reminds me of a story of a Goan chap I met many years ago here in London. He had just arrived in London and was looking at the phone directory (book) and came across several pages of Fernandes, Souza, Silva, etc. At first I had not realised what he was doing with the phone directory but then he made the following remark: -There are so many Goans in London!! I was stunned at his conclusion. He had no idea that those are all Portuguese names and that people from all over the world have them, including Brazilians, Sri-Lankans, East-Timoreses, East-Indians, Africans, Macaenses, etc. Best, Paulo. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cornel Sent: 05 May 2006 08:48 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans Jorge Thank you for demolishing the myth Mario created regarding his surname contributing to the name of a village in Portugal. Any Johnny- come-lately would know that Portuguese sourced Goan surnames were a consequence of Portuguese sourced activity, including naming, in Goa, and not the other way round! Cornel _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Jorge Thank you for demolishing the myth Mario created regarding his surname contributing to the name of a village in Portugal. Any Johnny- come-lately would know that Portuguese sourced Goan surnames were a consequence of Portuguese sourced activity, including naming, in Goa, and not the other way round! Cornel - Original Message - From: Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@goanet.org Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks. Perhaps you know that they named a village in Portugal after my name:-)) (in a reply to Bernado Colaco). Mario has made the above assertion (with a smiley) more than once on this list. On a serious vein, however, the truth is that: (1) There is no village with that name in Portugal, but a city which has about 4,000 inhabitants and is the headquarters of a concelho (= taluka) and of a comarca (= judicial district) having 22 freguesias (firgozo in Konkani) and 17,000 inhabitants; (2) The name of the city is spelt Gouveiaand not Goveia as is Mario's surname; (3) The said Portuguese city exists at least since the 12th century. It has textile, milk products and ceramic industries, and is situated at an altitude of 550-600 metres. Jorge _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks. Perhaps you know that they named a village in Portugal after my name:-)) (in a reply to Bernado Colaco). Mario has made the above assertion (with a smiley) more than once on this list. On a serious vein, however, the truth is that: (1) There is no village with that name in Portugal, but a city which has about 4,000 inhabitants and is the headquarters of a concelho (= taluka) and of a comarca (= judicial district) having 22 freguesias (firgozo in Konkani) and 17,000 inhabitants; (2) The name of the city is spelt Gouveiaand not Goveia as is Mario's surname; (3) The said Portuguese city exists at least since the 12th century. It has textile, milk products and ceramic industries, and is situated at an altitude of 550-600 metres. Jorge _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- How do you define the 'pucca' and 'kuccha' syntax? Or should I ask to be a 'pucca' NRI Goan, does one have to go about with a 'lota' on the banks of the Mandovi? Remember the Non Resident Goan has fed the coffers of the invaders with 17,000 crores. Manuel Caldeira has invested and is being pounded, even though he is in Goa Su-raj country. BC === Thanks. Perhaps you know that they named a village in Portugal after my name:-)) I don't think I'm confused at all, Bernardo. It is Resident Goans and Goan Indian citizens who are pucca. The rest of us non-citizen NRI Goan's are kuccha. Any non-citizen NRI who thinks of himself or herself as pucca is either dreaming or totally confused. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Bernado Colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You still hold a beautiful Portuguese name. Are you some kind of a confused mystiko? BC Mario replies: Thanks. Perhaps you know that they named a village in Portugal after my name:-)) I don't think I'm confused at all, Bernardo. It is Resident Goans and Goan Indian citizens who are pucca. The rest of us non-citizen NRI Goan's are kuccha. Any non-citizen NRI who thinks of himself or herself as pucca is either dreaming or totally confused. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- You still hold a beautiful Portuguese name. Are you some kind of a confused mystiko? BC Any pucca Indian Goan, or a kuccha one for that matter - like the Portuguese Goans, can be an NRI, as long as their origin is in Goa, which has been a part of India since 1961. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Bernado Colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At times on Goacom Liz would say that she is a pucca Goan. Now she turns into an NRI on Goanet. Very confusing statements Leah David. Mario replies: Bernardo, You seem to have misunderstood the discussions on NRI's. Some people think one has to be an Indian citizen to be an NRI. I am an American citizen, and still considered an NRI. Any pucca Indian Goan, or a kuccha one for that matter - like the Portuguese Goans, can be an NRI, as long as their origin is in Goa, which has been a part of India since 1961. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
At times on Goacom Liz would say that she is a pucca Goan. Now she turns into an NRI on Goanet. Very confusing statements Leah David. BC - Original Message From: Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@goanet.org Sent: Sunday, 30 April, 2006 12:27:24 PM Subject: RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans Dear Paulo, I am sorry to blow a hole in your theory but I have infact always been and still am an NRI in the truest sense of the word. I may reside in the USA but I am an Indian citizen who pays my taxes every year and will return to India in the near future. There has never been any question about my voting rights. I have them, I have always had them and in all probability will enjoy them well into my dotage. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Secondly I don't know if anyone read my original post but I stated very clearly that the term NRIs has lost its original and true meaning and has been loosely interpreted to mean every Indian or Person of Indian Origin, who now resides outside of India. Mario writes: I don't know anything about any original and true meaning of the term NRI, but there is nothing loose about the definition of an NRI as the link I provided shows. Here it is again: www.incometaxmumbai.nic.in/taxpayer/nri/nri1.htm _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
There seems to be confusion not just on this forum but in general in India as well, as to what NRI voting rights entails. The following link may shed some light on the matter. http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060122/world.htm#2 One of the extracts from this article is as follows: The government cannot grant dual citizenship to NRIs. These people are Indian nationals and full citizens of India. They, therefore, do not need reassertion of their rights as nationals of India. In case any one of them ceases to be Indian national/citizen, he or she becomes a foreign national and, therefore is no longer an NRI( the Indian Income tax Departments description of Indians who are not taxable in India as they are liable to paying tax in another country). Hope this article sheds some light on the matter. This closes the topic for me. Elisabeth __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Sorry Elisabeth, I was under the impression you were not an Indian Citizen. If you are, then there is no doubt you are an NRI. Mario, however, is not (he mentioned he is an US citizen). This is my last post on this subject. I think we are now quite clear. Best wishes Paulo. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elisabeth Carvalho Sent: 30 April 2006 05:27 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans Dear Paulo, I am sorry to blow a hole in your theory but I have infact always been and still am an NRI in the truest sense of the word. I may reside in the USA but I am an Indian citizen who pays my taxes every year and will return to India in the near future. There has never been any question about my voting rights. I have them, I have always had them and in all probability will enjoy them well into my dotage. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006 _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Dear Paulo, I am sorry to blow a hole in your theory but I have infact always been and still am an NRI in the truest sense of the word. I may reside in the USA but I am an Indian citizen who pays my taxes every year and will return to India in the near future. There has never been any question about my voting rights. I have them, I have always had them and in all probability will enjoy them well into my dotage. Secondly I don't know if anyone read my original post but I stated very clearly that the term NRIs has lost its original and true meaning and has been loosely interpreted to mean every Indian or Person of Indian Origin, who now resides outside of India. The purpose of me initiating this debate was not to discuss the current state of who is or is not eligible to vote, but may be eligible to vote in the future. Unfortunately,instead of discussing the case, much like the bureaucrats in India we are still deciding on where to file the case typed in duplicate on carbon paper. Elisabeth --- Paulo Colaco Dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario might want to check again with the Indian authorities. He and Elizabeth might think they are NRIs but in reality they are not. Those who are not Indian Citizens cannot be NRIs. At the most they are PIOs. Nasci Caldeira already posted an excellent contribution that explains this in detail so I do not have anything else to add. Well done Nasci. Best regards Paulo __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Mario might want to check again with the Indian authorities. He and Elizabeth might think they are NRIs but in reality they are not. Those who are not Indian Citizens cannot be NRIs. At the most they are PIOs. Nasci Caldeira already posted an excellent contribution that explains this in detail so I do not have anything else to add. Well done Nasci. Best regards Paulo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Goveia Sent: 28 April 2006 20:42 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans Elisabeth is right. I am a US citizen but am considered an NRI in India. --- Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, a minor correction on the term NRI. The term now encompasses all Indians residing outside of India, including Indians who have acquired citizenship of other countries and second- generation PIOs. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006 _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
--- Paulo Colaco Dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The term NRI might be sometimes informally used to represent non-Indian nationals, but everyone knows that in order to be a true NRI one needs to be an Indian National. Mario adds: Paulo, Everyone does not know that. I am not an Indian citizen, but I am considered a true NRI, and a PIO, and can apply for an OIC. However, you are correct that only India-based Indian citizens can vote. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
The recentreverse brain drainNRI is also used as 'Newly Returned Indian':) Edward Verdes Jeddah From: Nasci Caldeira NRI is a Non Resident Indian, that is a person holding an Indian Passport and Citizenship, residing outside India. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Dear Nasci, I think you are mixing the issue of absentee voting ballots and that of NRI voting rights. Or perhaps I am getting it wrong? Maybe someone in India/Goa can illuminate us. From what I understand of the situation, what the government wants to do is to bring into the electoral fold, all those Indian expats who are currently the citizens of countries such as USA, Canada, UK. Perhaps first becoming a dual citizen will be the mandatory requirement for voting. I don't know the criteria that will be set up to facilitate the voting process. The reason the Indian government, after turning a blind eye to the NRI (and I use the term in its looser meaning) population for years, suddenly discovered its love for them is upon learning that they can indeed make huge investments in India. Ofcourse quite a few of these capitalists wanting to make investments then made demands for more political power within the country. That is how this debate of NRI voting righs came into being. Which is why I wanted to discuss whether the interests of a few venture capitalists should warrant voting rights for an entire NRI population, most of whom in my opinion are quite apathetic to India and its polity - the hydra-headed monster. Elisabeth - --- Nasci Caldeira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario, (Elisabeth and all others), I do know, what is right here! An NRI is an Indian who is residing abroad and stiil holds on to his/her Indian Passport and Indian Citizenship, and not interested in changing their Staus Quo, and may or may not be liable for taxation in India. (this taxation is dependent on other factors) With reference to Elisabeth's last post on this, an NRI who is 'ORDINARILY NON RESIDENT' as per 'The Income Tax Act' of India, is one who manages to reside less than 180 days in India in any one fianancial year; and for that year only, such an NRI is not liable for I Tax; but should the person exceed the 180 days stay in India, then that person is liable for tax on all of his/her income for the financial year, irrespective of where the income may have been earned. Such a person does not also forfeit his/her right of vote, as and when they are present at the time of elections, whether tax paying or not. However, the Govt of India is trying to make sure that such NRIs are gauranteed this 'right of vote', and not be subject to manipulation by the Election Commisiion, thru adverse interference by people like the communal BJP wallahs and other manipulative people. This happened in Goa when the BJP and supporters were ruling in Goa; A lot of Goan voters who were not present at home at the time of electoral lists review, were struck off the rolls. This included many a Goan working on Ships and in Gulf Countries. The BJP wallahs deliberately did this shameful act, since they know that most people who are working on ships and in Gulf are not Hindu and hindutva inclined! This I feel is the reason behind the 'move' to give 'legal and proper' NRIs the vote, unconditionally. A PIO is considered to be a person of Indian origin who has taken/ acquired citizenship of another country. Such persons are by law not entitled to vote in India, among other things. Only PIOs with citizenship of other countries are elligible for Dual Citizenship with India. That is why the 'Dual Citizenship' concept has been introduced, so as to make PIOs feel at home and invest/ spend in India and not have to apply and pay for visas every time, etc, at the same time swelling the coffers of the Govt. of India indirectly. Such PIOs with this type of Dual Citizenship are however not allowed to vote in India, or hold any Public Post or acquire Agricultural property, and this is rightly so. In respect of voting rights for NRIs as descrbed earlier; I think the Govt. should go one step further, and allow them 'POSTAL VOTING' facility at the time of elections in India, from their country of temporary residence. This is allowed and facilitated for Australian citizens anywhere outside the country. So also was the case recently with Iraqi Citizens residing in Australia on bridging visas, when they were allowed to vote from Australia in their Elections back in Iraq! With regards! Nasci Caldeira Melbourne. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Mario, (Elisabeth and all others), I do know, what is right here! An NRI is an Indian who is residing abroad and stiil holds on to his/her Indian Passport and Indian Citizenship, and not interested in changing their Staus Quo, and may or may not be liable for taxation in India. (this taxation is dependent on other factors) With reference to Elisabeth's last post on this, an NRI who is 'ORDINARILY NON RESIDENT' as per 'The Income Tax Act' of India, is one who manages to reside less than 180 days in India in any one fianancial year; and for that year only, such an NRI is not liable for I Tax; but should the person exceed the 180 days stay in India, then that person is liable for tax on all of his/her income for the financial year, irrespective of where the income may have been earned. Such a person does not also forfeit his/her right of vote, as and when they are present at the time of elections, whether tax paying or not. However, the Govt of India is trying to make sure that such NRIs are gauranteed this 'right of vote', and not be subject to manipulation by the Election Commisiion, thru adverse interference by people like the communal BJP wallahs and other manipulative people. This happened in Goa when the BJP and supporters were ruling in Goa; A lot of Goan voters who were not present at home at the time of electoral lists review, were struck off the rolls. This included many a Goan working on Ships and in Gulf Countries. The BJP wallahs deliberately did this shameful act, since they know that most people who are working on ships and in Gulf are not Hindu and hindutva inclined! This I feel is the reason behind the 'move' to give 'legal and proper' NRIs the vote, unconditionally. A PIO is considered to be a person of Indian origin who has taken/ acquired citizenship of another country. Such persons are by law not entitled to vote in India, among other things. Only PIOs with citizenship of other countries are elligible for Dual Citizenship with India. That is why the 'Dual Citizenship' concept has been introduced, so as to make PIOs feel at home and invest/ spend in India and not have to apply and pay for visas every time, etc, at the same time swelling the coffers of the Govt. of India indirectly. Such PIOs with this type of Dual Citizenship are however not allowed to vote in India, or hold any Public Post or acquire Agricultural property, and this is rightly so. In respect of voting rights for NRIs as descrbed earlier; I think the Govt. should go one step further, and allow them 'POSTAL VOTING' facility at the time of elections in India, from their country of temporary residence. This is allowed and facilitated for Australian citizens anywhere outside the country. So also was the case recently with Iraqi Citizens residing in Australia on bridging visas, when they were allowed to vote from Australia in their Elections back in Iraq! With regards! Nasci Caldeira Melbourne. Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Elisabeth is right. I am a US citizen but am considered an NRI in India. --- Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, a minor correction on the term NRI. The term now encompasses all Indians residing outside of India, including Indians who have acquired citizenship of other countries and second- generation PIOs. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Hi Elisabeth, The term NRI might be sometimes informally used to represent non-Indian nationals, but everyone knows that in order to be a true NRI one needs to be an Indian National. Please check with the Indian authorities. I remember I have checked this last year and it was very clear to me that you need to be an Indian National to be a true NRI. I accept that the term is sometimes used in the generalised way to include all PIOs but that is indeed incorrect. The right of vote in India is only given to Indian Citizens. Not even the newly created Overseas Citizens of India have the right to vote. I do not consider myself a NRI. At the most, I am a PIO. I cannot see why the real NRIs (i.e. those who are Indian Citizens residing outside India) should not have the right to vote. This happens with many other democratic countries where their citizens can vote abroad through their countries' diplomatic representations. Best regards, Paulo Colaco Dias. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elisabeth Carvalho Sent: 28 April 2006 17:28 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans The term now encompasses all Indians residing outside of India, including Indians who have acquired citizenship of other countries and second-generation PIOs. Hence, we are primarily taking about Indians in the US, Canada, Uk, Australia, and so forth. Here is a definition from Wikipedia: A non-resident Indian (NRI) is an Indian citizen who has migrated to another country. Other terms with the same meaning are (somewhat self-deprecating in context) desis, overseas Indian and expatriate Indian. For tax and other official purpose the government of India considers any Indian national away from India for more than 180 days in a year an NRI. In common usage, this often includes Indian born individuals who have taken the citizenship of other countries. To me democracy is a vehicle of representation. If I was a Goan residing in Goa, I certainly would not want some second-generation expat who shows no signs of interest in the native country, having the right to vote. Will this right to vote, be pegged to any sort of commitment? Will it require some amount of residency or financial investment? If not, the right to vote will eventually end up being a vote for outdated loyalties and/or issues viewed through the prism of an expat's viewpoint, which may not be relevant to Goa/India's realities. Elisabeth _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Elisabeth is right. I am a US citizen but am considered an NRI in India. --- Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, a minor correction on the term NRI. The term now encompasses all Indians residing outside of India, including Indians who have acquired citizenship of other countries and second- generation PIOs. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Dear Nasci, Thank you for the example of the Italian Govt. Whenever we come across information like this it expands the scope of our debate and allows us to take decisions with wider perception. However, a minor correction on the term NRI. You are right, it does mean Non-Resident Indian, in the purest sense of the term. It was a tax identity set up to deal with income ensuring from Non-Resident Indians. These NRIs, when the term first became popular in the Indian vernacular by the late 70s, comprised mostly of Gulf NRIs who remitted to their NRI and NRI(E) accounts. Technically speaking these NRIs never really lost their right to vote. If they kept their ration cards and other forms of identity valid, they could indeed return during elections and vote. The term now encompasses all Indians residing outside of India, including Indians who have acquired citizenship of other countries and second-generation PIOs. Hence, we are primarily taking about Indians in the US, Canada, Uk, Australia, and so forth. Here is a definition from Wikipedia: A non-resident Indian (NRI) is an Indian citizen who has migrated to another country. Other terms with the same meaning are (somewhat self-deprecating in context) desis, overseas Indian and expatriate Indian. For tax and other official purpose the government of India considers any Indian national away from India for more than 180 days in a year an NRI. In common usage, this often includes Indian born individuals who have taken the citizenship of other countries. To me democracy is a vehicle of representation. If I was a Goan residing in Goa, I certainly would not want some second-generation expat who shows no signs of interest in the native country, having the right to vote. Will this right to vote, be pegged to any sort of commitment? Will it require some amount of residency or financial investment? If not, the right to vote will eventually end up being a vote for outdated loyalties and/or issues viewed through the prism of an expat's viewpoint, which may not be relevant to Goa/India's realities. Elisabeth -- --- Nasci Caldeira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Elisabeth, NRI is a Non Resident Indian, that is a person holding an Indian Passport and Citizenship, residing outside India. And in case of NRIs in gulf and other like countries these NRIs are not even PR that is they are not permanent Residents in the countries where they are working as expatriates. Hence they are for all purposes Indians working abroad and come 'HOME to India. As such they should have the 'Right of Vote' in their respective constituencies back home. Not knowing about certain things like u say is no criteria for 'No Vote'. It is the persons inherent right to vote, irrespective of other perceived qualities. This reminds me of what Nehru said in response to a query from a Time Correspondent, at the time of Goa's Liberation/Invasion/ Annexation! When the said journo said to Nehru: most Goans he met in Bombay were not in favour of Nehru's impending action. To which Nehru replied:Most Goans in Bombay are cooks and butlers. Do these poeple not have the right to decide or vote (n this case) just because they are cooks and butlers?? I hope U see the analogy. A PIO on the other hand is a person of Indian Origin, full or half; and this person may or may not be an Indian Citizen; the person may be a foreign (non Indian) citizen either acquired thru immigration or by birth. These persons who are foreign citizens can never be allowed to vote etc in India. That is the natural law! For all of the above, I feel that all NRI's who are not PR of foreign countries shoiuld be allowed to vote, in their respective constituencies in India. I will bring to notice the news of the Italian Govt. from this year allowing Italian NRI's in Australia, not only to vote in Italian Elections but also to have their own Reps in both houses of the Italian Parliament. These were duly elected here in Australia by these NRI's and are now sitting in the Italian Parliament on behalf of the NRI's. I was pleasently surprised; but again that is true democracy in action. Nasci Caldeira Melbourne. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Elisabeth, NRI is a Non Resident Indian, that is a person holding an Indian Passport and Citizenship, residing outside India. And in case of NRIs in gulf and other like countries these NRIs are not even PR that is they are not permanent Residents in the countries where they are working as expatriates. Hence they are for all purposes Indians working abroad and come 'HOME to India. As such they should have the 'Right of Vote' in their respective constituencies back home. Not knowing about certain things like u say is no criteria for 'No Vote'. It is the persons inherent right to vote, irrespective of other perceived qualities. This reminds me of what Nehru said in response to a query from a Time Correspondent, at the time of Goa's Liberation/Invasion/ Annexation! When the said journo said to Nehru: most Goans he met in Bombay were not in favour of Nehru's impending action. To which Nehru replied:Most Goans in Bombay are cooks and butlers. Do these poeple not have the right to decide or vote (n this case) just because they are cooks and butlers?? I hope U see the analogy. A PIO on the other hand is a person of Indian Origin, full or half; and this person may or may not be an Indian Citizen; the person may be a foreign (non Indian) citizen either acquired thru immigration or by birth. These persons who are foreign citizens can never be allowed to vote etc in India. That is the natural law! For all of the above, I feel that all NRI's who are not PR of foreign countries shoiuld be allowed to vote, in their respective constituencies in India. I will bring to notice the news of the Italian Govt. from this year allowing Italian NRI's in Australia, not only to vote in Italian Elections but also to have their own Reps in both houses of the Italian Parliament. These were duly elected here in Australia by these NRI's and are now sitting in the Italian Parliament on behalf of the NRI's. I was pleasently surprised; but again that is true democracy in action. Nasci Caldeira Melbourne. Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:49:58 -0700 (PDT) I have no qualms about NRIs being given voting rights but to what end? NRIs, PIOs, expats are an apathetic lot. I should know. Most of my family is now in diaspora and much of it second-generation, whose only link to Goa, is the occasional trip back home to see the ancestral house, check out if Auty Teodoline really does sport a mustache and how Uncle Joe talks about Lisboa with such reverence. Throw in a cruise down the Mondovi river, a lunch out at Martin's corner and a drive through hawker-invested Calangute for souvenirs and, they are ready for the trip back home having discovered their roots. I think Goans living abroad have very little knowledge and much less interest in the actual problems facing the people and the polity. They are immersed in their own daily battles, as they should be. I don't know if they can truly represent the hopes and aspirations of Goans living in Goa. I don't know if we should translate western sensibilities or solutions to situations that are indigenously Goan. This is my concern. That of apathy. That we will be giving power to an apathetic lot and power vested in such a section of society can be gravely misused. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Nice one Leah. How is the baby? Regards Xac === - Original Message From: Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@goanet.org Sent: Thursday, 27 April, 2006 12:49:58 AM Subject: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans As a second generation NRI, the concept of NRI voting rights is of great interest to me. Firstly, the term NRI has been generally misused. NRI, is not a group of people. The term was primarily a banking concept, first introduced to accommodate those intrepid souls that made their way to the Arabian desert. Their remittances to India were banked under non-taxable, Non-Resident Indian or Non-Resident Indian (External) accounts with a massive 12-15% interest rate, to act as incentive. In the course of time and evolution, the term has almost acquired an ethnicity of its own. It's not uncommon to come across ads, that want NRI grooms, as if it was a certain section of society with definable traits and attributes. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
