Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:26:37 -0500, Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Free advice: Always run DIRECTXA against your last known-good directory when the system comes up after a DR restore unless you know that the object and source directories are in sync. (You don't know, unless the system was down during the backup.) If you have the last known-good source directory the only reason I know o f it would be out-of-synch with the object directory is if a DIRECTXA was done during the window between when the DRCT cylinders are backed up and when the MDISK with the source is backed up. The problem is *knowing* whether a given directory source is the one used to create the current object directory. If someone updated the source directory without putting it online I don't want to blindly put it online making a change with unknown implications. Finding the source that matches the active directory of a working system is preferable to forcing the object to match a source I happen to have. The date/time the object directory was created along with the date/time stamp and filename of the file used to create the object directory would be useful information if you're not sure which source matches the object. More useful would be a tool to create the source from the object, as was mentioned earlier. In any case, having and following good procedures mitigates some of the risk and can help in recoverying from deviations to the procedures. Brian Nielsen
Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9
Is anyone using DSS to backup their VM system under zOS and have you been successful in restoring and IPL'ing ? Sample of the DSS backup statements were using, DUMP TRACKS(0,0,3338,14) INDDNAME(DASD) OUTDDNAME(TAPE) ADMIN - CPVOLUME CANCELERROR Thanks Brian
Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9
We have used the method you show to restore a Linux guest and we were able to logon and use it with no problem we were using z/OS 1.6. But when we back up Linux and/or VM they are down so the backups are stable. Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Walter Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:30 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 Brian, Do you understand that if you backup any system from any other system, using tools which are not aware of file updates in cache, and files or databases which are spread across physically disparate DASD, then the backup is unreliable unless the system being backed up has been gracefully shutdown before the back begins, and is not brought up until the backup is complete? I.e. if you are backing up z/VM from z/OS, z/OS just backs up tracks of data. If those tracks are changing, the odds of reliably restoring the system are not too reliable (pun intended). That's not z/VM's fault. If you backup z/OS DASD from z/VM while z/OS it is running, the restore will probably not be reliable. If you back up a Linux guest running on z/VM from z/OS, z/OS is unaware of files cached on the Linux guest. Solution: backup a system using its own products which are aware of these limitations, or use backup tools at rely on a client running on the system being backed up to get a stable, reliable, and _restorable_ backup. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Hamilton, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/19/2008 11:19 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 Is anyone using DSS to backup their VM system under zOS and have you been successful in restoring and IPL?ing ? Sample of the DSS backup statements were using, DUMP TRACKS(0,0,3338,14) INDDNAME(DASD) OUTDDNAME(TAPE) ADMIN - CPVOLUME CANCELERROR Thanks Brian The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9
Brian, Do you understand that if you backup any system from any other system, using tools which are not aware of file updates in cache, and files or databases which are spread across physically disparate DASD, then the backup is unreliable unless the system being backed up has been gracefully shutdown before the back begins, and is not brought up until the backup is complete? I.e. if you are backing up z/VM from z/OS, z/OS just backs up tracks of data. If those tracks are changing, the odds of reliably restoring the system are not too reliable (pun intended). That's not z/VM's fault. If you backup z/OS DASD from z/VM while z/OS it is running, the restore will probably not be reliable. If you back up a Linux guest running on z/VM from z/OS, z/OS is unaware of files cached on the Linux guest. Solution: backup a system using its own products which are aware of these limitations, or use backup tools at rely on a client running on the system being backed up to get a stable, reliable, and _restorable_ backup. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Hamilton, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/19/2008 11:19 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 Is anyone using DSS to backup their VM system under zOS and have you been successful in restoring and IPL?ing ? Sample of the DSS backup statements were using, DUMP TRACKS(0,0,3338,14) INDDNAME(DASD) OUTDDNAME(TAPE) ADMIN - CPVOLUME CANCELERROR Thanks Brian The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9
Thanks, likewise our linux guests and VM itself is down. I was more curious around the cp allocations for page, spool tdisk were they preserved. Brian -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Macioce, Larry Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 We have used the method you show to restore a Linux guest and we were able to logon and use it with no problem we were using z/OS 1.6. But when we back up Linux and/or VM they are down so the backups are stable. Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Walter Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:30 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 Brian, Do you understand that if you backup any system from any other system, using tools which are not aware of file updates in cache, and files or databases which are spread across physically disparate DASD, then the backup is unreliable unless the system being backed up has been gracefully shutdown before the back begins, and is not brought up until the backup is complete? I.e. if you are backing up z/VM from z/OS, z/OS just backs up tracks of data. If those tracks are changing, the odds of reliably restoring the system are not too reliable (pun intended). That's not z/VM's fault. If you backup z/OS DASD from z/VM while z/OS it is running, the restore will probably not be reliable. If you back up a Linux guest running on z/VM from z/OS, z/OS is unaware of files cached on the Linux guest. Solution: backup a system using its own products which are aware of these limitations, or use backup tools at rely on a client running on the system being backed up to get a stable, reliable, and _restorable_ backup. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Hamilton, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/19/2008 11:19 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 Is anyone using DSS to backup their VM system under zOS and have you been successful in restoring and IPL?ing ? Sample of the DSS backup statements were using, DUMP TRACKS(0,0,3338,14) INDDNAME(DASD) OUTDDNAME(TAPE) ADMIN - CPVOLUME CANCELERROR Thanks Brian The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9
Thanks, likewise our linux guests and VM itself is down. I was more curious around the cp allocations for page, spool tdisk were they preserved. Page is volatile by definition, so backing it up is kinda pointless. Ditto tdisk. Spool, you need to do with SPXTAPE if you expect it to be usable for anything other than full-pack restores. If you're taking the whole mess completely down during a backup, then yeah, you'll get good disk image data, but that seems like swatting a fly with an atom bomb. Certainly wouldn't qualify for non-disruptive operation. Spool is a moving target; at best you might get lucky but my money is that you'll probably need to do a force start and hope that nothing weird happened. That's not a guarantee I'd want to back, though. You certainly won't get a clean warm start unless the VM system is down when you do the dumps.
Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9
As long as your z/VM systems are down during the backup... no problem. The DASD allocations are housed on cylinder zero. Bot for CP-owned DASD as well as all other CP formatted DASD. That's why it is generally considered a best practice to ALLOCATE 0-0 PERM when running CPFMTXA. Other stuff is housed on cylinder zero as well, including the volser, the IPL TEXT for the SALIPL program, the dummy VTOC (that tells z/OS that there is no room at the inn , and more. The allocation bit map not marks how each cylinder is allocated, but also indicates which slots are in use (or were when the system was last running). Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Hamilton, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/19/2008 01:00 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 Thanks, likewise our linux guests and VM itself is down. I was more curious around the cp allocations for page, spool tdisk were they preserved. Brian -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Macioce, Larry Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 We have used the method you show to restore a Linux guest and we were able to logon and use it with no problem we were using z/OS 1.6. But when we back up Linux and/or VM they are down so the backups are stable. Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Walter Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:30 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 Brian, Do you understand that if you backup any system from any other system, using tools which are not aware of file updates in cache, and files or databases which are spread across physically disparate DASD, then the backup is unreliable unless the system being backed up has been gracefully shutdown before the back begins, and is not brought up until the backup is complete? I.e. if you are backing up z/VM from z/OS, z/OS just backs up tracks of data. If those tracks are changing, the odds of reliably restoring the system are not too reliable (pun intended). That's not z/VM's fault. If you backup z/OS DASD from z/VM while z/OS it is running, the restore will probably not be reliable. If you back up a Linux guest running on z/VM from z/OS, z/OS is unaware of files cached on the Linux guest. Solution: backup a system using its own products which are aware of these limitations, or use backup tools at rely on a client running on the system being backed up to get a stable, reliable, and _restorable_ backup. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Hamilton, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/19/2008 11:19 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 Is anyone using DSS to backup their VM system under zOS and have you been successful in restoring and IPL?ing ? Sample of the DSS backup statements were using, DUMP TRACKS(0,0,3338,14) INDDNAME(DASD) OUTDDNAME(TAPE) ADMIN - CPVOLUME CANCELERROR Thanks Brian The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed
Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9
We do the same type of backup. Right now it works well for us just because we can afford to bring down the z/VM system once a month for full volume dumps. The Linux servers are backed up nightly using Tivoli. All this may change in the future. Hamilton, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/19/2008 12:19 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9 Is anyone using DSS to backup their VM system under zOS and have you been successful in restoring and IPL?ing ? Sample of the DSS backup statements were using, DUMP TRACKS(0,0,3338,14) INDDNAME(DASD) OUTDDNAME(TAPE) ADMIN - CPVOLUME CANCELERROR Thanks Brian
Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9
Brian--The appends that followed yours and preceded mine are all good advice, HOWEVER and there is always one of those. If you don't use a VM based database, you don't have to worry about that. If you are, you'd better, at least, shut it down for the backup time. The comments about the spool are right. You won't be able to do a warm start. FORCE starts are a lot more dangerous. If you didn't get one of your spool volumes backed up, you're really out of luck. There's no sense in backing up page space, altho in a DR situation, it just may be easier to restore every volume that having to read the DR doc and CPFORMAT spool volumes. Take your choice. Our DSS backups of the running system are done for DR purposes only. Yes, we won't have the open spool files and if someone was updating a mdisk at the time of the backup, you might have a messed up or incomplete backup. We do, a VMBACKUP FULL backup at about the same time the DSS backup is done so we're in pretty good shape. Once we've got the DR backup restored, and bring back up VMBACKUP, we can recover it's database from a separate backup and get that bad mdisk fixed up. Our line of reasoning is that if the data center burns down once every 20 years, and we restore that bad or dirty restores, losing the open spool files such as OPERATOR, that's good enough. Your situation may be completely different. If you have to account for every key press of an ATM, you're in a different situation. Jim Hamilton, Brian wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_=_NextPart_001_01C8731B.A621A756 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is anyone using DSS to backup their VM system under zOS and have you been successful in restoring and IPL'ing ?=20 =20 Sample of the DSS backup statements were using, =20 DUMP TRACKS(0,0,3338,14) INDDNAME(DASD) OUTDDNAME(TAPE) ADMIN - =20 CPVOLUME CANCELERROR=20 =20 Thanks =20 Brian -- Jim Bohnsack Cornell University (607) 255-1760 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backing up and restoring zVM 5.2 using IBM's DSS backup utility under zOS 1.7/1.9
On Tuesday, 02/19/2008 at 01:30 EST, Mike Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Solution: backup a system using its own products which are aware of these limitations, or use backup tools at rely on a client running on the system being backed up to get a stable, reliable, and _restorable_ backup. Let me second this. It is important, too, to understand that just because you did a test restore of the data you backed up today, and it worked, that it may not work tomorrow. Consider what might happen if you were backing up SFS server disks while changes were being made. (shudder) Free advice: Always run DIRECTXA against your last known-good directory when the system comes up after a DR restore unless you know that the object and source directories are in sync. (You don't know, unless the system was down during the backup.) Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
