Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
Lynn Kinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti: Or, more correctly, a bit doesn't produce a gait; natural talent produces gait, aided by the rider's seat and legs. Like our riding instructor on a riding weekend (strictly traditional icelandic) said: You are all using too much hand, you don't ride tölt with your hand! And what comes to natural talent... She also told us about a gaited Friesian (?) Walter Feldman presented somewhere. Then someone wondered if gaited friesians are common and she said that probably he had searched for one that looked like it just might have a tiny bit of gaitedness in it and then just made it gait. She also commented that there are many nasty methods to make a horse gait (and she was not talking about weights etc., those were standard equipment for her, altho not for helping a horse tölt but helping the 5 gaited horses trot). Krisse
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
Trust me, going really fast is vastly over rated. I love that my Icelandic cross can gait along in a sweet easy gait that doesn't require prayer. Nancy or an energy level thats the same as a full blown gallop. Teev did a flying pace I think twice! I really do, it felt just like a rack. and both occasions were when other horses we were with were galloping. He is so laid back and easy going. I dont think I could ever get him to do that on his own without whipping him. And my Jas, he did a true rack a few times under similar circumstances and one of those times got a stone bruise because it was such a hard pounding gait for him, but smooth for me, on a hard clay road. Same as teev, I would have to beat him or panic him to make him go that fast if other horses werent just flying. Stonewall loves to go, but he is a horse that will be flying and then see something imaginary and do a whirl so I dont like to ride him with horses that are gonna fly. So none of my horses are really horses I want to do a speed rack. I cant wait to ride Trausti's runningwalk, on Fox it is my favorite gait, some speed but still very laid back and relaxed on the horse's part... when fox gets going real good he stumbles and went down with me once and hopped back up with me hanging from a stirrup, arms around his neck, and he is very tall. Thank Goodness he just stood there a nice soft easy gait is just fine by me! My best riding buddy has a horse that is gaited and just plods and an appaloosa non gaited that just plods so I dont need many speed rackers... Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
2008/6/5 Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED]: but smooth for me, on a hard clay road. Same as teev, I would have to beat him or panic him to make him go that fast if other horses werent just flying. Wellfor heaven's sake Janice. Pop a dropped noseband on him and strap it down really tight so he can't breathe and then put a saddle on him that digs into his loins so he's in pain...and make sure you sit on the cantle so it pops his front end up even more... He'll panic... Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
come on, folks, this is the icehorses list. the only acceptable answer is no bit at all, the tolt is done in a sidepull. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
On Jun 5, 2008, at 5:31 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: come on, folks, this is the icehorses list. the only acceptable answer is no bit at all, the tolt is done in a sidepull. --vicka Or, more correctly, a bit doesn't produce a gait; natural talent produces gait, aided by the rider's seat and legs. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA ranch: http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
She was told to use a Wonder Bit to get tolt. I used one of those one Dagur. he didn't like it at all. He likes his hackamore Lorraine
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
I started stonewall in a wonderbit on advice of the seller. I believe that started him out on his hyped up craziness I now have to work so hard to contain. I am short on my posts and lurking from my phone you guys! no internet at work! gives you guys a break from me ha! janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
I do have that right don't I? Rack tolt are the same gait? Yes, tolt and rack are the same gait. Probably most of our Icelandic Horses are not tolting (racking) on the trails unless we are really going fast. It's probably a saddle rack. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
Probably most of our Icelandic Horses are not tolting (racking) on the trails unless we are really going fast. It's probably a saddle rack. Trust me, going really fast is vastly over rated. I love that my Icelandic cross can gait along in a sweet easy gait that doesn't require prayer. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
That she's worrying about the wrong end of the horse... Way to go Wanda That's the best answer I've heard ever. I get sick of the concept that a gaited horse needs a special (read more severe) bit. Hunter, who is a racking fool, goes bitless, but also racked just as well in a French link snffle and a kimberwick.Occassionally I put him in the round pen and he racks in there with noting on hs head at all. I do have that right don't I? Rack tolt are the same gait? Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 07:39:16 -0700, you wrote: A lady wrote to me this morning asking which bit to use to get tolt. What would you tell her? Whatever bit the horse is comfortable being ridden in, and you as a rider are happy using - or no bit at all, if that works for you and the horse. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
[IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
A lady wrote to me this morning asking which bit to use to get tolt. What would you tell her? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
2008/6/3 Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED]: A lady wrote to me this morning asking which bit to use to get tolt. What would you tell her? That she's worrying about the wrong end of the horse... Wanda -- Thoughts become things...
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
2008/6/3 Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED]: A lady wrote to me this morning asking which bit to use to get tolt. What would you tell her? To get her thinking about this, I'd probably start out by asking her if she needs different bits to get walk, trot, and canter. Hopefully, she'll say no. : ) From there, I'd explain that in a naturally gaited horse, the soft gaits are not (should not be) dependent on outside influences -- i.e. shoes, tack, bits, etc., but more a matter of letting the horse get in condition and learn cues. Within that process, she will discover what soft gait her horse has under the hood. That would then be a segue to discussing how few Icelandics *naturally* do a true tolt under saddle, but rather often saddle rack or do a foxtrot. Finally, I'd ask why she thought she would need a special bit. . (because I'd be curious where THAT notion came from!) -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
Finally, I'd ask why she thought she would need a special bit. . (because I'd be curious where THAT notion came from!) She was told to use a Wonder Bit to get tolt. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
She was told to use a Wonder Bit to get tolt. yep. cranks that head up til his ears are in your face. been there. done it. and he gaits great without it. it made him pace. janice
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
where THAT notion came from!) She was told to use a Wonder Bit to get tolt. Oy. If *they* aren't telling people to nail on gait, they are advising to strap it on in some fashion. It just never ends. There's always newbies who believe. Sigh. -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
2008/6/3 Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED]: She was told to use a Wonder Bit to get tolt. Is that that strange combo noseband thing with more hardware on it than the kitchen sink? Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] What Bit for Tolt
where THAT notion came from!) She was told to use a Wonder Bit to get tolt. Oy. If *they* aren't telling people to nail on gait, they are advising to strap it on in some fashion. It just never ends. There's always newbies who believe. Sigh. -- Renee M. in Michigan There are also those people, like myself, who decide that their horsemanship is so far removed from what they believe is good horsemanship thay they go off and do their own thing and never get involved in the Icelandic world. I know several peole who have been completely turned off by the show Icelandic people. So, they are also driving away some people. My first experience with Icelandics was going to a large Icelandic farm and being told to hold the horse's head up very high and hard, sit back and go. Yuck. Not doin' it. Didn't buy any of their horses. Penny
Re: [IceHorses] What bit, what bit? What is going on....????
trail that leads down to a waterhole with lots of rocks that we cross sometimes. Everytime we get near it, he decides he is going down and through and home. I expected it Saturday and he faked me out and nearly passed the spot and turned a perfect L to he left with his next and flipped is back end around to the right like a cutting horse and down in to the water he went. Here's a list of things to check out to try to get to the root of the problem: http://iceryder.net/problem.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] What bit
. The reason I believe the Bob Marshall will be the right saddle is that it is treeless and is supposed to conform to his body and make him feel like he is being ridden bareback. Whatever I can do to make him and I both as comfortable as possible is my goal. You would think he would be sore, but there seems to be no pain on his back or sides. Judy, I apologize, but I think I may have missed a couple of posts. Didn't I see something about him bucking at the canter, and how you say one might assume he's sore...? I've had a few rehabs here with bucking/bolting problems. One turned out to have an old castration scar as well as an old soft-tissue injury near the withers. Another had ulcers. And we never knew exactly what the other mare's problem was, but she responded dramatically to acupuncture. Anyway, if your gut tells you that the horse is uncomfortable in some way, don't ignore it. At least keep it at the back of your mind. Ailments of these kinds can be difficult for even good vets, chiropractors and professionals to isolate sometimes. The farrier and vet have both checked him out so there is no health issues thank God. I have done some clicker training but the people at the barn laugh until they see some of the tricks he can do. I have gotten him to stand at the mounting block and come when I call. I am going back to clicker training though. I have all the books. Again, if anyone has any other suggestions, I am taking them all. Have you tried some of the natural horsemanship exercises? I really like the Parelli Seven Games. I started dabbling in NH before Parelli was such a big name, so I sort of have my own blend of methods now, not pure Parelli, but for someone starting out, the Seven Games are wonderful - very simple and step-by-step, but powerful...and FUN. Or they should be fun - that's why they are called GAMES. :) The coolest thing is that you can work on your relationship with ground exercises - where it's much harder for you to get injured - while developing your relationship with your horse. It's the best of both, building a relationship while staying safe. The exercises and trust continues on into your riding time too. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 2/11/2008 5:28 PM
[IceHorses] What bit
Wow, I typed a reply and it went to never, never land. So if you see two posts, one is incomplete. Sorry I really appreciate all the feedback. I don't think Dakota is barn sour because it is only at that one place he likes to turn and go. He is fine at all the locations we have come and gone from. We go a different way every time so I don't know why he would associate just this particular place with home. The saddle I use right now was used on a Halflinger (spelling). I finally was able to ride Dakota enough to get him sweaty. There was a dry spot under the saddle which is one dry spot too many. As you know, I have ordered a trial Bob Marshall. The reason I believe the Bob Marshall will be the right saddle is that it is treeless and is supposed to conform to his body and make him feel like he is being ridden bareback. Whatever I can do to make him and I both as comfortable as possible is my goal. You would think he would be sore, but there seems to be no pain on his back or sides. The farrier and vet have both checked him out so there is no health issues thank God. I have done some clicker training but the people at the barn laugh until they see some of the tricks he can do. I have gotten him to stand at the mounting block and come when I call. I am going back to clicker training though. I have all the books. Again, if anyone has any other suggestions, I am taking them all. I have read everything available on the Icelandic Horse Connection website. Judy Ryder is awesome and so are all of you. Again, Thanks. Judy Fiedler.
Re: [IceHorses] What bit
Judy, When I ride my horses on my property, they know where the paddock is. And there are a couple of them that will make a sudden try to see if I will let them go back. They never do this off on a trail ride we have hauled to. One of them does it in the same exact spot every time, like clockwork. I always just get ready cause I know its coming, as soon as we go around a certain tree, wh he zings around in a marmaduke move to head back and since I am ready for it he always has to go on. One thing that helped was I decided if it took all day I would get him around that tree without him doing it. It took about ten times and he finally went on, but as soon as I relaxed the next time he would give it a try. mark rashid says if you want calm and soft, don't give up til you have calm and soft. That being said, there is always the dreaded power struggle too, and sometimes it just turns into a game with them, and I agree with Renee that with some horses a total different approach such as clicker training is good. You dont even have to buy the book and a clicker, really. With my Fox I just started giving him a treat when he would be good a half second and he started focusing on me instead of how to escape me. Every horse is so different, some things work on some but not on others. But I feel like your horse is trying to see if he can get out of the ride by acting up, in the same spot every time. Is there any way to avoid this spot? reason I say, I have two horses that still act up a little at a certain spot even if a year goes by and they havent been there. There is in fact a trail in the wilderness area here that has a spot my friend calls stonewalls spook spot because it goes down to a little creek and a dense musky smelly bog and every time he used to whirl, but now just scoots forward. I think critters may nest in there, but things become habit with him. My horse fox is ok in the saddle but on the ground if I try to lead him outside our front gate he wants to whirl and drag me like a water skier. but clicker training stopped it. but at the gate he still starts blowing and making the marble in the nose sound and getting scared so I stop and pet him til he calms, give him a click and a treat and you can just see the tension drain out of him. Once outside the gate he is fine. ?? oh well, go figure :) Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] What bit, what bit? What is going on....????
Hi Judy, I'm trying to get Dakota straighten out with the right saddle, the right bit, etc. . . . However, I use a kimberwick on him right now. It is hard to get him to stop sometimes. He likes to bolt or just plain ignore you. . . . I don't want to go severe because he really is a good boy he just has a tough neck and a mind of his own. It sounds like he's a bit barn sour maybe. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 02/10/2008 12:21 PM
Re: [IceHorses] What bit, what bit? What is going on....????
What kind of saddle are you currently riding him with treed or treeless? and what makes you think that the Bob Marshall saddle will make things better? Pat G., in MN
Re: [IceHorses] What bit, what bit? What is going on....????
Hello Judy, Renee gave you some good advice. Ride where you're safe. When you have your saddle issues settled, take some lessons on him, and get some communication going before you take him out on the trail. I had the same type of issues with my old Hreggur. He managed to bolt on me. But he had a lot of health/pain issues that needed to be solved before he settled. Then I began taking lessons on him and he really really improved. We really began to understand each other. (I bet it's a saddle fit issue though) What type of saddle are you using on him now? Wanda
