Re: Is WAP mobile Internet??
r e n; > I don't think WAP Mobile Internet any more than TCP/IP is Internet. There is no such thing as WAP Mobile Internet. > The Mobile Internet is data/communication devices you carry around with you. > > Here in Japan we have 8 million non-WAP mobile internet users, plus another 2 > million WAP users, and the numbers are exploding. They are no internet users. Just as the Internet was not e-mail several years ago when e-mail was the most popular application, the Internet is not web. > But, and I know this may be the wrong mailing list for this comment, No. It is merely that your understanding on the Internet is wrong in any mailing list. Masataka Ohta
Fault Tolerant in Active Network
i'm thinking about fault tolerant in active network, the following is my thinking Since active network is to allow network to provide computation platform, the user can input the program ( application specific customerised program) to the active network and let the nodes to perform computation, is there anyone outthere is doing fault tolerant application. Secondly, can mpls consider to be active network, if it is not can it be possible to make it to be one. i know there are three applications in MPLS & they are vpn, cos & traffic engineering. Are they considered to be application specific customerised program in active network.. Appreicate anyone gives me some ideas Cheers Sam Sita Equant Operation Fault Management Unit Phone : 61-02-92401408 CVN : 72391408
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:12:26 +0200, Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > Anyway, I have a really good instinct for picking technology winners, and > > thus far I put WAP in the same category as MiniDiscs, bubble memory, color > > fax machines, and quadraphonic sound. I think the growth area is in: > > The MiniDisc died. MP3 is a big business. People wanted the functionality. > The MD is in no way dead. There are MILLIONS of them in Japan and across Asia. MDs never took off in the US/Europe, but that doesn't relegate it to the betmax graveyard. When 1 billion Chinese are recording their MP3s onto MDs and memory sticks, would you call that a dead technology? > WAP may die like the other stuff mentioned above. However, people DO want > the functionality - or something like it. Absolutely. Whatever the technical standard, mobile computing is not going away. Regards, r e n -- ascii: r e n f i e l d octal: \162 \145 \156 \146 \151 \145 \154 \144 hex: \x72 \x65 \x6e \x66 \x69 \x65 \x6c \x64 ** note new work email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Is WAP mobile Internet??
I don't think WAP Mobile Internet any more than TCP/IP is Internet. The Mobile Internet is data/communication devices you carry around with you. Here in Japan we have 8 million non-WAP mobile internet users, plus another 2 million WAP users, and the numbers are exploding. But, and I know this may be the wrong mailing list for this comment, the point is a non-technical one. Users don't care if it's WAP/WML, or cHTML or MML or text SMS, on a cdmaONE network, PDC-P, or what. Technically, I think many agree that WAP and its various technical standards are ill-conceived and poorly executed, but that doesn't mean the potential of the Mobile Internet isn't there. I personally think if WAP migrated to xHTML and operators looked at the successes here in Japan, than the next generation of WAP phones (or whatever you call them) really can and will be Mobile Internet. Regards, r e n Lars-Erik Jonsson wrote: > Hi Folks!! > > I would like to hear your opinions about how WAP people often say that WAP is > "mobile Internet". In my opinion, WAP is NOT mobile Internet at all. The > Internet is built on the e2e principle and based on the Internet Protocols, > which WAP is not. I can not tell people that they should not use WAP (even if I > have my opinions about WAP). If they believe in WAP that is their problem, but > when they try to use the words WAP and Internet in the same sentence I think it > is time to clarify a few things. I accept that WAP is there, but be honest about > what it is. > > Cheers! > /Lars-Erik (expressing my PERSONAL opinions) -- ascii: r e n f i e l d octal: \162 \145 \156 \146 \151 \145 \154 \144 hex: \x72 \x65 \x6e \x66 \x69 \x65 \x6c \x64 morgan stanley dean witter japan e-business technologies | engineering and strategy S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
FAQ: The IETF+Censored list
The IETF+Censored mailing list At times, the IETF list is subject to debates that have little to do with the purposes for which the IETF list was created. Some people would appreciate a "quieter" forum for the relevant debates that take place, but the IETF's policy of openness has so far prevented the IETF from imposing any censorship policy on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. To give people an alternative, there is a list called "[EMAIL PROTECTED]". This list is a sublist (that is, it gets the same messages as) the open IETF discussion list. However, this list will not forward all messages; in particular, the filters have been set so that persons and discussions that are, in the view of Harald Alvestrand, irrelevant to the IETF list are not forwarded. Because this filter is automated, the criteria include: * Well known troublemakers * Well known crosspostings * Subjects that have led to recent non-conclusive exchanges * Some ways to say "unsubscribe" To join the list, [1]send the word "subscribe" in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (the URL here is an RFC 2368 mailto URL that does the Right Thing). To unsubscribe, [2]send the word "unsubscribe" in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do not send to the list - your message will be filtered! (members of the main IETF list itself must follow instructions for that list, of course. You are only a member of ietf+censored if there is a comment on the bottom of your IETF list mail saying that the message has been sent through the ietf+censored list.) For fun, there is a special list for the rejected messages: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - subscribe in the same fashion, by [3]mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] By public request, the current set of filters are listed at [4]http://www.alvestrand.no/cgi-bin/hta/ietf+censored-filters Some statistics on postings, which may be useful in getting a perspective on the effects of the filter, are at [5]posting-counts.html (started Oct 14, 1998). This page is http://www.alvestrand.no/ietf+censored.html, and is posted monthly in text form to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Harald Tveit Alvestrand [6]< [EMAIL PROTECTED]> References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=subscribe 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=unsubscribe 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=subscribe 4. http://www.alvestrand.no/cgi-bin/hta/ietf+censored-filters 5. http://www.alvestrand.no/posting-counts.html 6. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC 2862 on RTP Payload Format for Real-Time Pointers
>A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > >RFC 2862 > >Title: RTP Payload Format for Real-Time Pointers >Author(s): M. Civanlar, G. Cash >Status: Standards Track > Date: June 2000 >Mailbox:[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Pages: 7 >Characters: 12031 >Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:None > >I-D Tag:draft-ietf-avt-pointer-02.txt > > >This document describes an RTP [1] payload format for transporting the Um, there doesn't seem to be a "URL" field for this announcement. RGF Robert G. Ferrell, CISSP Who goeth without humor goeth unarmed.
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
-- Forwarded by Jim Stephenson-Dunn/C/HQ/3Com on 06/30/2000 11:24 AM --- sent by: Jim Stephenson-Dunn - Network Engineer, GIS LAN/WAN To: Alan Simpkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... (Document link: Database 'Jim Stephenson-Dunn', View '($Sent)') Valdis and Alan, you have a very valid point, infrastructure is not only expensive but very time consuming. The engineering component (configuration) is a relatively quick process by comparison. A country cannot just throw in a national communications infrastructure overnight. Having said that though, if people don't know how to use the telephone, they are unlikely to embrace the Internet. IMHO as the world slowly goes IP, this is perhaps an attempt by the Telco,s who see shrinking margins to try and bolster use of their products. I am having conversations with about 9 people around the world who are building a pure IP infrastructure (point to point fiber) who are going nowhere near the Telco's. Whilst it may appeal to the boys and their toys complex who may feel that having a WAP enabled handset empowers them and/or makes the neighbours jealous WAP that brings the Internet to a cellular device is of limited use because of the power and memory constraints of those devices. Why look at information on a WAP enabled phone with it's small screen, when it is easier to pull out my laptop, fire it up and see all of the information in one place at one time, with lots of memory and processing power at my command. Whilst I realise that Voice protocols have their place, it is IMHO only a matter of time, before this family of protocols gets to old and unworkable in the new world order of IP, that we will have little choice but to take it into the backyard with a shotgun. Jim ** Legal Disclaimer The opinions expressed within this mail are specifically my own and in no way refer to or relate to any ongoing business and/or the technical direction of 3Com Corporation, or any subsidiary companies or business units within 3Com Corporation and its subsidiaries. ** Alan Simpkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 06/30/2000 08:22:38 AM Sent by: Alan Simpkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Stephenson-Dunn/C/HQ/3Com) Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... Valdis, I agree with you a hundred percent. The most expensive part of infrastructure is pulling the cables/fiber necessary to build the infrastrucuture. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:41:37 +0200, Anthony > Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > If they are that lacking in mere wires, they > probably aren't in a position > > to profit from access to the Internet in the first > place. That is, if they > > lack telephones (and that's all they need for > broadband, or at least it's > > the better part of the battle), why would they be > surfing the Web? First > > things first. > > The fact that they lack wires doesn't mean they lack > telephones. > > Remember that wires are expensive to pull, > especially for those 3 houses > out on the far side of the mountain down the dirt > road. > > > Countries without landlines are not going to be a > part of the global economy > > unless they upgrade in a major way very soon. > > You got this wrong. Countries without > *connectivity* will be screwed. There's > no *obvious* requirement that there be a landline > involved. > > Having said that, I'm *not* a WAP proponent. ;) > -- > Valdis Kletnieks > Operating Systems Analyst > Virginia Tech > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:12:26 +0200, Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Anyway, I have a really good instinct for picking technology winners, and > thus far I put WAP in the same category as MiniDiscs, bubble memory, color > fax machines, and quadraphonic sound. I think the growth area is in: The MiniDisc died. MP3 is a big business. People wanted the functionality. Bubble memory died - people didn't want that functionality. Color fax machines died. People just don't fax enough color documents to be worth it. Color digital cameras however are a big business. Quadraphonic sound died. Home theatre systems are a big business. > broadband land-based links; I don't understand why people have flown off on > tangents towards wireless when land links are just starting to come into > their own. I suspect it is more politically motivated than technically Umm.. I can't run my land link to my car.. or wherever I'm headed next. That's why wireless is becoming big business. WAP may die like the other stuff mentioned above. However, people DO want the functionality - or something like it. -- Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech PGP signature
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
> thats why intelsat and a cosortium of telcos has > a charity that built a box that is solar powered > and provides n gsm phones access + 1 64kbps uplink/ > downlink to geostatinary atellites So that's what, 64/5 = 13 kbps per user? Even as current Internet designs require ever more bandwidth and strain even multi-megabit connections? And has anyone considered what happens when you have 6 million active ground transceivers trying to communicate with a single satellite? > actualyl, a LOT of places that are really poor in > the world dont even have electricty- but they can get > batteries and if they use sms (e.g. for calling > emergency service/flying doctors/vets etc), they > can make them last quite a long time Why use SMS instead of just voice? Has anyone considered the ergonomics of WAP? Even if it works perfectly, how many people are willing to work on a screen smaller than a credit card? How many people are capable of touch-typing on a keyboard with only ten soft keys that must be pressed in various arcane combinations for almost ever letter? It just doesn't make intuitive sense. Anyway, I have a really good instinct for picking technology winners, and thus far I put WAP in the same category as MiniDiscs, bubble memory, color fax machines, and quadraphonic sound. I think the growth area is in broadband land-based links; I don't understand why people have flown off on tangents towards wireless when land links are just starting to come into their own. I suspect it is more politically motivated than technically motivated, and that is one reason why I think it will fail. A lot of time and effort is being wasted on WAP.
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alan Simpkins t yped: >>Valdis, I agree with you a hundred percent. The most >>expensive part of infrastructure is pulling the >>cables/fiber necessary to build the infrastrucuture. thats why intelsat and a cosortium of telcos has a charity that built a box that is solar powered and provides n gsm phones access + 1 64kbps uplink/downlink to geostatinary atellites actualyl, a LOT of places that are really poor in the world dont even have electricty- but they can get batteries and if they use sms (e.g. for calling emergency service/flying doctors/vets etc), they can make them last quite a long time >> >>--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:41:37 +0200, Anthony >>> Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >>> > If they are that lacking in mere wires, they >>> probably aren't in a position >>> > to profit from access to the Internet in the first >>> place. That is, if they >>> > lack telephones (and that's all they need for >>> broadband, or at least it's >>> > the better part of the battle), why would they be >>> surfing the Web? First >>> > things first. >>> >>> The fact that they lack wires doesn't mean they lack >>> telephones. >>> >>> Remember that wires are expensive to pull, >>> especially for those 3 houses >>> out on the far side of the mountain down the dirt >>> road. >>> >>> > Countries without landlines are not going to be a >>> part of the global economy >>> > unless they upgrade in a major way very soon. >>> >>> You got this wrong. Countries without >>> *connectivity* will be screwed. There's >>> no *obvious* requirement that there be a landline >>> involved. >>> >>> Having said that, I'm *not* a WAP proponent. ;) >>> -- >>>Valdis Kletnieks >>>Operating Systems Analyst >>>Virginia Tech >>> >>> >> >>> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature >> >> >> >>__ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! >>http://mail.yahoo.com/ >> cheers jon
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
Valdis, I agree with you a hundred percent. The most expensive part of infrastructure is pulling the cables/fiber necessary to build the infrastrucuture. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:41:37 +0200, Anthony > Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > If they are that lacking in mere wires, they > probably aren't in a position > > to profit from access to the Internet in the first > place. That is, if they > > lack telephones (and that's all they need for > broadband, or at least it's > > the better part of the battle), why would they be > surfing the Web? First > > things first. > > The fact that they lack wires doesn't mean they lack > telephones. > > Remember that wires are expensive to pull, > especially for those 3 houses > out on the far side of the mountain down the dirt > road. > > > Countries without landlines are not going to be a > part of the global economy > > unless they upgrade in a major way very soon. > > You got this wrong. Countries without > *connectivity* will be screwed. There's > no *obvious* requirement that there be a landline > involved. > > Having said that, I'm *not* a WAP proponent. ;) > -- > Valdis Kletnieks > Operating Systems Analyst > Virginia Tech > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:41:37 +0200, Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > If they are that lacking in mere wires, they probably aren't in a position > to profit from access to the Internet in the first place. That is, if they > lack telephones (and that's all they need for broadband, or at least it's > the better part of the battle), why would they be surfing the Web? First > things first. The fact that they lack wires doesn't mean they lack telephones. Remember that wires are expensive to pull, especially for those 3 houses out on the far side of the mountain down the dirt road. > Countries without landlines are not going to be a part of the global economy > unless they upgrade in a major way very soon. You got this wrong. Countries without *connectivity* will be screwed. There's no *obvious* requirement that there be a landline involved. Having said that, I'm *not* a WAP proponent. ;) -- Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech PGP signature
Re: Is WAP mobile Internet??
At 13.54 +0200 00-06-30, Lars-Erik Jonsson wrote: >I would like to hear your opinions about how WAP people often say that WAP is >"mobile Internet". Well, Ericsson do in their ads :-) :-) (I say to a person at Ericsson). From my point of view, you can (through a proxy service) access (some) Internet Services via WAP, but not Internet. Exactly because of the reasons you listed in your email. Internet is end2end IP. If you understand swedish, you can find one specification of "what should be part of an Internet connection" on http://www.itkommissionen.se/obs/obs_spec.html It specifies what is needed for calling something "Internet". Nothing connected to WAP will pass those tests. paf
RE: Is WAP mobile Internet??
Okay WAP at the moment is only in its baby stage, hence a few mobile phones have it and a few other devices, and yes at the moment its not very good, but that's because of the current technology. I know I keep going on about it, but, I'm sure Bluetooth can and will change the way people use WAP and as the applications become Bluetooth enabled, WAP is a perfect way of transmitting data. Have a look at http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid%5F791000/791297.stm Sony has said It is planning to put the Bluetooth short range wireless technology in almost every gadget it produces making it easier to get at data in any device, whether that is messages, music or video. IE Walkmans, laptops, digital cameras and even electronic pets like the Aibo robotic. WAP will be a perfect side technology for this. 'This is just my opinion and not that of Compaq's (Yet :-))' -Original Message- From: Lars-Erik Jonsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 12:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Is WAP mobile Internet?? Hi Folks!! I would like to hear your opinions about how WAP people often say that WAP is "mobile Internet". In my opinion, WAP is NOT mobile Internet at all. The Internet is built on the e2e principle and based on the Internet Protocols, which WAP is not. I can not tell people that they should not use WAP (even if I have my opinions about WAP). If they believe in WAP that is their problem, but when they try to use the words WAP and Internet in the same sentence I think it is time to clarify a few things. I accept that WAP is there, but be honest about what it is. Cheers! /Lars-Erik (expressing my PERSONAL opinions)
Re: Speakers - WAP CONVENTION - The European Event
I might be missing something here but weren't mobile phones around for years before they became as ubiquituous as they are now? Tatty bye, Jim'll
Is WAP mobile Internet??
Hi Folks!! I would like to hear your opinions about how WAP people often say that WAP is "mobile Internet". In my opinion, WAP is NOT mobile Internet at all. The Internet is built on the e2e principle and based on the Internet Protocols, which WAP is not. I can not tell people that they should not use WAP (even if I have my opinions about WAP). If they believe in WAP that is their problem, but when they try to use the words WAP and Internet in the same sentence I think it is time to clarify a few things. I accept that WAP is there, but be honest about what it is. Cheers! /Lars-Erik (expressing my PERSONAL opinions)
Speakers - WAP CONVENTION - The European Event
We are currently inviting Speaker applications for: WAP CONVENTION 2000 - Mobile Services - The European Event has been scheduled for: 21 + 22 November, 2000 Cité des Sciences et de l'Industrie PARIS The current Mobile Internet market explosion is without comparison. Widespread use of the TV set took over 20 years to develop, computers took 10 years, and mobile phone use developed in just a few months. The place for Mobile Internet in the daily lives of every one of us is becoming increasingly important. The mobile revolution is happening now. Join the key European and International players. Take the stage at WAP CONVENTION 2000. Conference themes are attached, and also included at the end of this mail. To apply for a Speaker position, or for further information about the WAP CONVENTION 2000 Exhibition and Sponsor programs, please contact... Rosie Drugeault Conference Manager Dir Tel: +33 1 43 14 49 64 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emmanuel Parrou Exhibition Sales Manager Direct Tel: +33 1 47 70 45 82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] WAP CONVENTION is created by Ptolémée, the organisers of NARROWCAST. WAP CONVENTION 2000 - CONFERENCE THEMES DAY 1 Conference Room 1 : 10:30am – 12:00 midday Mobile Internet and the Law The deployment of Mobile terminals (Smart phone, e-book, PDA, radio, game consoles etc) poses new legal questions. The protection of personal information, content ownership, distribution rights….. Can an analogy be made with the jurisprudence of the Internet ? 2:00pm – 3:30pm MAd : " Mobile Advertising " Mobile Internet and WAP are encouraging new forms of expression for advertisers. What methods can be used for mobile advertising ? From customised messages to 1-to-1 marketing, which method is adapted to which terminal ? 4:00pm – 5:30pm M-Marketing Marketing is adopting Mobile Internet. What are the emerging trends ? What are the new opportunities made available to marketers by the development of Mobile Internet ? Conference Room 2 : 10:30am – 12:00 midday WAP is dead, hooray for WAP ! The arrival of WAP on mobile telephones is just the very first step of a major technological tidal wave. GPRS, followed by UMTS, will then serve to amplify and improve access to the multitude of services proposed. Future prospects. 2:00pm – 3:30pm The Mobile Internet Market The market is developing at a frenetic pace. What are the principal elements and who are the actors ? Are we heading towards a " player war ", similar to the war already seen between browsers ? What are the consequences? 4:00pm – 5:30pm Mobile Internet : the New Kids on the Block. Six innovative start-ups present their companies. Day 2 Conference Room 1 : 10:30am – 12:00 midday The Multi-Access Portal Each terminal (PDA, Smart phone, computer, television, radio, game console…) has its own specifications. The user can now create his own menu according to content needs, location, and time available. Which content to cater for specific needs ? Which services for which terminals ? 2:00pm – 3:30pm Value-added Services for Mobile Terminals The deployment of Mobile Internet and the development of broadband allows the distribution of new content. Which services should be proposed to professionals and the general public ? Packages and pricing. 4:00pm – 5:30pm M-Business A step forward from e-business, M-business is developing at the rapid rate of the evolution of terminals. What applications are currently in use ? Trends and prospects. Conference Room 2 : 10:30am – 12:00 midday New Content and Mobile Terminals With the arrival of GPRS and then UMTS, " rich media " will take over mobile terminals. What is the content of tomorrow ? Who are the new producers and distributors ? 2:00pm – 3:30pm Corporate Portal From ASP offers to " knowledge management ", the corporate portal is the marketplace for business information. Will the multiplication of mobile terminals and corporate portals finally set the scene for the development of the " mobile offfice " ? 4:00pm – 5:30pm Virtual Communities and Mobile " Tribes " How is a mobile virtual community developed ? What are the existing applications ? How to pass from a " fixed community " to a " mobile community ". *** WAP CONVENTION Conference Themes.doc
