RE: [JBoss-dev] time is up, where is adam heath?
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 16:59, Micheal J wrote: > This is wrong IMO. You might not like their views/question but they are > entitled to them. I agree that [some of] this thread should have happened on > a JBoss "general/business discussion" list though ;-) > > A request to move it to the appropriate list [at least as a first step] > would have been more appropriate. Man, do I ever agree with that. Just look at the ridiculous email I'm forced to use now. Very inconvenient. -- _________ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] JBoss 3.0 Demo App
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 19:28, marc fleury wrote: > hey, > > where would you guys see the link for petstore, I am drawing a blank on > where it would fit on the current website, maybe under downloads? > documentation? (just to make sure people can see it running) under "success > stories"... I dont know any ideas? Will it still need to be distributed as a patch or is there a problem distributing a modified JPS? I have modifications for Postgres DAO support if anyone else finds Postgres support useful. -- _________ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] time is up, where is adam heath?
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 16:59, Micheal J wrote: > This is wrong IMO. You might not like their views/question but they are > entitled to them. I agree that [some of] this thread should have happened on > a JBoss "general/business discussion" list though ;-) > > A request to move it to the appropriate list [at least as a first step] > would have been more appropriate. Man, do I ever agree with that. -- _________ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] time is up, where is adam heath?
On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 23:46, Bill Burke wrote: > > - What formal guarantees are there that my contributions will not be > > used to create a for-profit proprietary product? > > You're protected as much as LGPL. You'll have to ask a lawyer. I hate > lawyers and I hate licenses. I believe in brutal capitalism dude. Survival > of the fittest. Spare me your commie crap. LGPL protects you only as far as the original author is not interested in relicensing. If JBoss group owns, lets say, 80% of the code then the JBoss group can most certainly bundle a for-pay product that is a LGPL/proprietary hybrid. I've seen this approach tried in the past by various groups, Kaffe among them. It leads to forks. As to capitalist dudes and commie crap, I'm not sure where you are headed with that. > > - What actions are underway to migrate JBoss' ownership from Marc to an > > organization with formal, published by-laws that is managed in an open > > and participatory manner? > > Who on this list has the time, energy, and/or money to support/run this type > of organization? There are umbrella organizations already in place to manage this sort of thing. Software in the Public Interest manages Debian's assets. There is the Apache Software Foundation, but the LGPL is a problem there. There is even the Free Software Foundation for that matter. I will personally assist in the process of solving the problem if desired. -- _____ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] time is up, where is adam heath?
On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 23:21, Scott M Stark wrote: > So a request for what seemed to be a platform specific distribution of > a platform independent project did not go over well and some flamed > you. Denigrating the rest of the developer community because of this > doesn't add to the quality of the thread. Forgive, forget and trooper on. True enough. Although, I thought Adam's requests were licensing oriented rather than platform oriented. The non-free software being the problem for Debian that is. -- _________ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] time is up, where is adam heath?
On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 22:43, Dain Sundstrom wrote: > You are performing due diligence. You see things you have not seen before > and they give you a queasy feeling. (right?) So what don't you like? Try to > start a discussion, and ask questions instead of writing vague accusations. Fair enough. - What formal guarantees are there that my contributions will not be used to create a for-profit proprietary product? - What guarantee do I have that JBoss will remain a fair and participatory organization that does not isolate members for purely political or profit-motivated reasons as opposed to matters purely technical? - What actions are underway to migrate JBoss' ownership from Marc to an organization with formal, published by-laws that is managed in an open and participatory manner? - Is there anything akin to the Debian Social Contract in JBoss? A "social contract" between JBoss and its community? (http://www.debian.org/social_contract) Answers to questions like these will determine the extent that we invest in a shared infrastructure or directly hire people to mature the infrastructure ourselves. -- _________ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] time is up, where is adam heath?
On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 21:59, Dain Sundstrom wrote: > > - Marc seems to have complete ownership of the domain and, more > > importantly, the trademark. > > (http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=3k4bgs.4.1) > > so > > > - Marc has retained Larry Rosen, who is also associated with the Open > > Source Initiative, as an attorney. > > so > > > - Beyond the apparently successful training effort there is a > > developing > > focus on services. > > I hope so. What is wrong with offering consulting (advice) and support from > the source? Well, that is a complex discussion. What if Linus Torvalds had decided to try and start the next SCO instead of giving Linux away? What if Brian Behlendorf had tried to be the next Netscape? You will have to excuse me asking these questions. I'm new to this effort of yours and I must admit that I have some questions to ask before I start slapping $20,000.00 on the barrelhead. I'm happy to help fund an OpenSource EJB engine. That looks good. But if I'm giving start-up capital to a potential competitor then I want some stock! All I can see right now is that Marc owns JBoss outright for most intents and purposes. The "benevolent dictator" model is a common one, but there is something else more complex going on here. The Perl and Apache trademarks are not licensed to partners and Larry Wall doesn't keep a VP of business development around. I'm here to help. I have significant resources. I have a responsibility to those resources. I'm just asking the questions that I have to ask in order to move forward. Also, to save me some trouble, what was Telkel and where did it go? -- _ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] time is up, where is adam heath?
On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 21:30, Peter Fagerlund wrote: > You are still in the last century ? are You not ? it is a new dawn here ! > glowing ... Please, spare me the rhetoric. I know plenty about mixing business and Free Software. There only a few things I can so far detect about JBoss: - The code looks really cool. - A lot of people are working on it and committing effort. - Marc seems to have complete ownership of the domain and, more importantly, the trademark. (http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=3k4bgs.4.1) - Marc has retained Larry Rosen, who is also associated with the Open Source Initiative, as an attorney. - Beyond the apparently successful training effort there is a developing focus on services. -- _____ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] RE: [JBoss-user] where is CMP2.0 documentation?
On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 20:20, Hicks, James wrote: > Im not saying im too cheap to buy it. If I come to the point where I need > the docs, I will probably purchase them. But I am saying that I dont > understand why Dain didn't contribute the docs. Why not gpl the docs too, > at least a fresh soft copy? > > I like the JBoss server and I would like to see it reach it's full > potential. One thing JBoss is lacking is a representative application ( > like the petstore for the J2EE Reference Implementation). To show my > support for the project, I would like to head up the development of a full > featured application that runs with JBoss. If anyone has any ideas for an > application, let me know. I am currently working on an affiliate tracking > system, I could GPL it and use it for the project. Anyone want to work on > this? http://www.jboss.org/developers/jboss-petstore.jsp -- _________ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] time is up, where is adam heath?
On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 15:53, marc fleury wrote: > I seriously doubt you are a developer of anything kid... I usually wouldn't credit this kind of bait with a response, but since I am considering doing business with your organization I suppose that it is worth exploring. Adam Heath is one of my employees. In addition to a fairly comprehensive knowledge of Java, C, Perl and every Shell variant I've ever seen he also has a fairly solid design sense. I have asked Adam to Debianize the JBoss system. We use Debian fairly exclusively for our production environment both for its usability and its alignment with our philosophical perspective. I'm quite sure that Debian users at large will find Adam's debs handy. While we are discussing being for real I must say that the way you conduct yourself raises serious issues for me. I have been examining your partner program and have been trying to decide what is going on with this JBoss critter you are all cooking up. The code is undeniably good, but I'm somewhat unclear about the arrangements. There seem to be a lot of possibilities: 1. JBoss, the Open Source project. 2. JBoss, the training organization. 3. JBoss, the book publisher. 4. JBoss, the marketing organization. 5. JBoss, the loud Frenchman who loves to flame people. I'm very interested in being involved with #1 but I don't know how much I need or want to be involved in #2, #3, #4 or #5. That is what I'm in the process of figuring out and it doesn't help that #5 insists on dismissing issues I consider important and belittling my employees. Is the JBoss group a non-profit, not-for-profit? Should I regard it as an Open Source project or a competitor? As I look into committing more time and money to the JBoss project I am wondering if I am helping Marc build a consulting company. I'm looking for something like the Apache project. A group that produces a mutually useful infrastructure without disproportionally rewarding one person in particular. I don't know how many of you have similar questions or issues and I'm happy to shut up and just use the code. For those that are interested here are a few facts about our organization: - We are a little 20 man shop in Dallas, Texas that has been around for about ten years. - We routinely execute contracts for Fortune 500 companies. - We are the longest continuous commercial sponsor of the Debian project. - Our employees include the primary architect of the GCJ Java compiler, who is also on the GCC steering committee. -- _________ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] /. -> want you to tell about my fears ....
On Thu, 2001-11-29 at 18:34, David Budworth wrote: > I think removing the docs 100% would be a bad thing. Very much agreed. It will hurt and probably won't help. Free Software makes business success very difficult, especially in any kind of product oriented market. Keeping your business seperate from the source product is the best solution if you can have it. I understand that it is painful to look at the excitement behind a Free Software product and not be able to capitalize on it but that is not what the experiment is necessarily about. Its about good code and about getting everything out of the way that gets in the way of good code. I think that good documentation is a big part of good code. If you try to tie up the documentation chances are that someone else is going to circumvent your efforts to do so. Can I have my flame now too, please? :) -- _________ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
