RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX
Another suggestion. Try Weblogic 6.0. It contains many bug fixes, including clustering. It also uses JDK 1.3 and the garbage collection under load with hotspot is much improved. Also, EJB 1.1 or 2.0 works better. -Original Message- From: Filip Hanik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 12:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX We've been trying to get an install of Weblogic51 up and running for 4 months! BEA has as of yet been unable to get it run either. They finally admitted that they have a SERIOUS problem with windows and clustering. two thinks to consider, JBoss doesn't offer clustering yet. So the statement is no good. Also, why not cluster on Unix boxes, since you want scalability, Windows is not going to offer it anyway :) :) ~ Namaste - I bow to the divine in you ~ Filip Hanik Software Architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.filip.net ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo
Jim, this reason will work on me. It's logical and it's testable, with an immediate benefit. It will NOT work on a corporate decision-maker who wouldn't know a desirable EJB feature if it fell on his head. What are the compelling business cases, guys? Or, to put it another way, where's the money? I've thought of quite a few, but I won't list them yet because I don't want to blind you to your own insights. - Original Message - From: Jim Archer Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo I'll suggest another reason to use jBoss right now. With an inexpensive add-in (check out http://www.mvcsoft.com), you can start codeing in EJB 2.0 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo
What are the compelling business cases, guys? Or, to put it another way, where's the money? I've thought of quite a few, but I won't list them yet because I don't want to blind you to your own insights. Here's one for ya: painless integration. Need to add your own custom stuff? No problem, write a JMX component for it. Need to integrate tool XYZ? No problem, write a JMX component for it. This is not easily done with many other tools, and translates directly to time-to-market and money benefits. /Rickard ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo
| What are the compelling business cases, guys? Or, to put it another way, | where's the money? I've thought of quite a few, but I won't list them yet | because I don't want to blind you to your own insights. | |Here's one for ya: painless integration. | |Need to add your own custom stuff? No problem, write a JMX |component for it. |Need to integrate tool XYZ? No problem, write a JMX component for it. | |This is not easily done with many other tools, and translates directly to |time-to-market and money benefits. he was talking about the $ value to us rickard, marc | |/Rickard | | | |___ |JBoss-user mailing list |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo
everyone's got it yet? marc |-Original Message- |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter |Routtier-Wone |Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 3:48 AM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo | | |Jim, this reason will work on me. It's logical and it's testable, with an |immediate benefit. | |It will NOT work on a corporate decision-maker who wouldn't know a |desirable |EJB feature if it fell on his head. | |What are the compelling business cases, guys? Or, to put it another way, |where's the money? I've thought of quite a few, but I won't list them yet |because I don't want to blind you to your own insights. | |- Original Message - |From: Jim Archer |Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo | |I'll suggest another reason to use jBoss right now. With an inexpensive |add-in (check out http://www.mvcsoft.com), you can start codeing in EJB 2.0 | | | |___ |JBoss-user mailing list |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo.
Peter, We're not in production yet, but we are in beta. We originally started working and developing with Weblogic 5.1 about a year ago and actually went into beta with it. Recently, about a month ago, because of serious budgetary constraints, we ported from Weblogic to JBoss and have been using it ever since. Now, budgetary constraints have been lifted and upper management is thinking of going back to using Weblogic. I have been fighting furiously against this. Not only do I think that JBoss could potentially become a superior product(in many ways, it already is!), but IMHO, OpenSource has serious long term advantages that can't be overlooked. In the meantime, I'm keeping a parallel nightly build going with Weblogic so that if we need to (or if forced to :-( ), we can switch back to WebLogic. IMHO, I think we would be an incredible testimonial for JBoss, not only because of the scale of our application, but also because we moved from Weblogic. Regards, Bill Peter Routtier-Wone wrote: You're a pearl, Bill. This is exactly the sort of stuff I need for the promo material I'm preparing - unsolicited from-the-trenches testimonial. It may help to point out to your employers that they have no guarantees from the other container providers, and that JBoss gives them the ability to rescue themselves, which the other vendors don't. Point out that official support just means vested interest in maintaining customer loyalty, and that if they want evidence of vested interest Marc F has bet the farm on the success of JBoss. If anyone can furnish either medium to large testimonial for Bill's use then I would also appreciate a copy. If not a production app, what about benchmark figures? TPc? Bill, would it help to remind your PHB that you can always switch to another container? ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
[JBoss-user] I need ammo.....(Humorours..)
Thought you all might find this funny. I got this below email from my "I need ammo" thread. Pretty funny huh? I guess "ammo" is a dirty word. :-) Original Message Subject: ScanMail Message: To Sender, sensitive content found and action t aken. Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:47:48 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trend SMEX Content Filter has detected sensitive content. Place = [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ; ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender = Bill Burke Subject = Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. Delivery Time = March 30, 2001 (Friday) 10:47:46 Policy = Dirty Words Action on this mail = Quarantine message Warning message from administrator: Sender, Content filter has detected a sensitive e-mail. ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo.....(Humorours..)
Are you sure it wasn't the topic of marketing that was obscene? These AIs are getting better... A.j)bbA.lqzm+-. +-b~n,
RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX
Windows 2000 scales just fine Fillip. Certainly the 32-CPU Windows 2000 Datancentre boxes represent much more _vertical_ scalability than 90% or more of businesses need or want I imagine. As for _horizontal_ scalability you can scale till the cows... More seriously, I am curious though about this problem with clustering and why it only applies to Windows. If WebLogic admitted there was a problem perhaps there is a link to some online description/notice? Micheal -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Filip Hanik Sent: 30 March 2001 18:39 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX We've been trying to get an install of Weblogic51 up and running for 4 months! BEA has as of yet been unable to get it run either. They finally admitted that they have a SERIOUS problem with windows and clustering. two thinks to consider, JBoss doesn't offer clustering yet. So the statement is no good. Also, why not cluster on Unix boxes, since you want scalability, Windows is not going to offer it anyway :) :) ~ Namaste - I bow to the divine in you ~ Filip Hanik Software Architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.filip.net ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX
Michael, This is currently BEA's top priority fix over all others. I know of no documentation except a voluminous amount on the private engineering db internal to BEA. It is a problem on all platforms but does not noticeably manifest itself except on windows. The reason is weblogic uses multicast for messaging in the cluster. Windows has a VERY small multicast buffer size. Other platforms allow you to change the size of the multicast buffer and alleviate communication problems. So one, BEA screwed up using multicast for messaging large amounts of data in a cluster. Other products like Gemstone have a much more mature cluster technology and do not need to message to stay in synch. Two, they are sychronizing much more data than they need to, up to 14meg has been measured. Talk about performance downer...that will kill a CPU when you have 4 plus instances all trying to talk at the same time. Mica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Micheal J Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 12:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX Windows 2000 scales just fine Fillip. Certainly the 32-CPU Windows 2000 Datancentre boxes represent much more _vertical_ scalability than 90% or more of businesses need or want I imagine. As for _horizontal_ scalability you can scale till the cows... More seriously, I am curious though about this problem with clustering and why it only applies to Windows. If WebLogic admitted there was a problem perhaps there is a link to some online description/notice? Micheal -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Filip Hanik Sent: 30 March 2001 18:39 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX We've been trying to get an install of Weblogic51 up and running for 4 months! BEA has as of yet been unable to get it run either. They finally admitted that they have a SERIOUS problem with windows and clustering. two thinks to consider, JBoss doesn't offer clustering yet. So the statement is no good. Also, why not cluster on Unix boxes, since you want scalability, Windows is not going to offer it anyway :) :) ~ Namaste - I bow to the divine in you ~ Filip Hanik Software Architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.filip.net ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX
|So one, BEA screwed up using multicast for messaging large amounts of data |in a cluster. Other products like Gemstone have a much more mature cluster |technology and do not need to message to stay in synch. that is actually pretty smart (mcast sync of ball) we were planning on using that... if they ran into problems likeliness is we will too marc | |Two, they are sychronizing much more data than they need to, up to |14meg has |been measured. Talk about performance downer...that will kill a |CPU when you |have 4 plus instances all trying to talk at the same time. | |Mica | |-Original Message- |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Micheal J |Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 12:18 PM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX | | |Windows 2000 scales just fine Fillip. Certainly the 32-CPU Windows 2000 |Datancentre boxes represent much more _vertical_ scalability than 90% or |more of businesses need or want I imagine. As for _horizontal_ scalability |you can scale till the cows... | |More seriously, I am curious though about this problem with clustering and |why it only applies to Windows. If WebLogic admitted there was a problem |perhaps there is a link to some online description/notice? | |Micheal | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Filip Hanik | Sent: 30 March 2001 18:39 | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX | | | We've been trying to get an install of Weblogic51 up and running for 4 | months! BEA has as of yet been unable to get it run either. |They finally | admitted that they have a SERIOUS problem with windows and clustering. | | two thinks to consider, JBoss doesn't offer clustering yet. So | the statement | is no good. | Also, why not cluster on Unix boxes, since you want scalability, | Windows is | not going to offer it anyway :) | | :) | | ~ | Namaste - I bow to the divine in you | ~ | Filip Hanik | Software Architect | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.filip.net | | | | ___ | JBoss-user mailing list | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user | | |___ |JBoss-user mailing list |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user | | |___ |JBoss-user mailing list |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX
|So one, BEA screwed up using multicast for messaging large amounts of data |in a cluster. Other products like Gemstone have a much more mature cluster |technology and do not need to message to stay in synch. that is actually pretty smart (mcast sync of ball) we were planning on using that... if they ran into problems likeliness is we will too marc Unless, you have a framework that implements reliable multicasting, like www.javagroups.com, I'm still researching and digging into this technology to see if it would be a fit. As of now, it looks really good, but it is a little bit built to be its own application instead of a component inside of a server application. The statement here, is about thread handling can not be controlled from outside, and when developing an EJB server you have to be able to control most of the threads. Will send you all more feedback once I get really down and dirty with this one. Filip ~ Namaste - I bow to the divine in you ~ Filip Hanik Software Architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.filip.net ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX
|Unless, you have a framework that implements reliable multicasting, like |www.javagroups.com, I'm still researching and digging into this technology |to see if it would |be a fit. As of now, it looks really good, but it is a little bit built to |be its own application instead of a component inside of a server |application. The statement here, is about thread handling can not be |controlled from outside, and when developing an EJB server you have to be |able to control most of the threads. | |Will send you all more feedback once I get really down and dirty with this |one. please do so, there were many ideas flying on the clustering and now we need to bring it home... the jmx clustering is in place so at least the infrastructure is there marc | |Filip | |~ |Namaste - I bow to the divine in you |~ |Filip Hanik |Software Architect |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |www.filip.net | | |___ |JBoss-user mailing list |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. -WL SUX
marc fleury wrote: |So one, BEA screwed up using multicast for messaging large amounts of data |in a cluster. Other products like Gemstone have a much more mature cluster |technology and do not need to message to stay in synch. that is actually pretty smart (mcast sync of ball) we were planning on using that... if they ran into problems likeliness is we will too Good: use multicast for dirty notifications. Bad: use multicast for sending actual data. Only read data from databases. /Rickard -- Rickard berg Xpedio Author of "Mastering RMI" Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo.....(Humorours..)
Hi, I got one too. I am somewhat mystified as to what my alleged dirty word is -- my best guess is "blackbox" as in "[Sun example] blackbox resource adapter". The filter must have a dirty mind. David Jencks On 2001.03.30 11:08:39 -0500 Bill Burke wrote: Thought you all might find this funny. I got this below email from my "I need ammo" thread. Pretty funny huh? I guess "ammo" is a dirty word. :-) Original Message Subject: ScanMail Message: To Sender, sensitive content found and action t aken. Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:47:48 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trend SMEX Content Filter has detected sensitive content. Place = [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ; ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender = Bill Burke Subject = Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. Delivery Time = March 30, 2001 (Friday) 10:47:46 Policy = Dirty Words Action on this mail = Quarantine message Warning message from administrator: Sender, Content filter has detected a sensitive e-mail. ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
[JBoss-user] I need ammo.
All, I need help. I really need some references on who is using JBoss in production and to what scale. I'm meeting resistence on adopting JBoss at my company and really need this information to convince the nervous, uninformed, upper-upper management(CIO types) that this is the way to go. Thanks very much in advance, Bill Burke ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo.
|Are you sure JBoss is the way to go? Don't get me wrong, I love JBoss and |I will actually have a site going live in the next few months that will be |running on JBoss. However, if you sell your management types on JBoss, and |then experience any difficulties, especially with the lack of "official" |support, guess who they are going to come looking for? That guy in IT |that recommended that open source J2EE server. Be ready to go to the wall |for JBoss and when the inevitible problems do arise (as they do with any |piece of software, whether it be WebLogic, WebShere, JBoss, etc) remember |that you have this mailing list to help you out. But try telling that to |the management types when your server is floudering or isin't scaling the |way you thought .."I'm on it sir, I'm just waiting for someone to respond |to my posting on the JBoss mailing list." No flames, it is just inacurate. That is what we are offering today with JBG. We are already doing it. We guarantee access to the right resource (I know who wrote what, who knows what, who is where, who is available) within 24hours with NDA and all. Of course this is a paying channel. It already sells. |PS I mean no attack on this list, as i find it to be one of the most |helpful to which I have subscribed. I am not sure I got your point frankly... get the stuff working, say that it is free of LICENSES, no licenses, no per cpu and it still offers the other services. marc ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo.
IMHO, I think going the JBoss/OpenSource route has very huge advantages in the long run. Other than the obvious, (you can fix bugs you find, add any feature you want), the EJB Container becomes less mysterious and magical, and more predictable and understandable. Since we've been using JBoss, we understand the EJB spec tons better and have a better understanding of what is going on under the covers. This has helped us to write better code and to plan better for the future. It really helps to have a total picture of both the design of your application and the infrastructure it runs on top of. As for taking the heat? I really don't care. I can always find another job(I'm overworked as it is;-) ) BTW, what does our app look like? We're having an ArrowPoint loadbalancer balancing to multiple instances of Jetty/Jboss on multiple machines with a very large DB server on the back-end. We need to support 10K - 100k users. Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you sure JBoss is the way to go? Don't get me wrong, I love JBoss and I will actually have a site going live in the next few months that will be running on JBoss. However, if you sell your management types on JBoss, and then experience any difficulties, especially with the lack of "official" support, guess who they are going to come looking for? That guy in IT that recommended that open source J2EE server. Be ready to go to the wall for JBoss and when the inevitible problems do arise (as they do with any piece of software, whether it be WebLogic, WebShere, JBoss, etc) remember that you have this mailing list to help you out. But try telling that to the management types when your server is floudering or isin't scaling the way you thought .."I'm on it sir, I'm just waiting for someone to respond to my posting on the JBoss mailing list." If you're lucky and deal with management who actually have half a technological brain then you might be alright. Awaiting the inevitable flames PS I mean no attack on this list, as i find it to be one of the most helpful to which I have subscribed. Bill Burke [EMAIL PROTECTED]@lists.sourceforge.net on 03/29/2001 04:04:02 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: JBoss-User [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: [JBoss-user] I need ammo. All, I need help. I really need some references on who is using JBoss in production and to what scale. I'm meeting resistence on adopting JBoss at my company and really need this information to convince the nervous, uninformed, upper-upper management(CIO types) that this is the way to go. Thanks very much in advance, Bill Burke ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] I need ammo
Forget the dodos with no backbone who'll advise going with big names. Its a wonder they aren't using Microsoft. Use jBoss in your test environment and on your developers boxes. When you understand it, and its running smoothly, put it in production. If you have problems, then you can purchase a name brand. When you need more, like clustering and failover, go with a name brand. I talked to a rep at GemStone the other day with just this conversation. He wholeheartedly recommended this strategy. Mica Cooper -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bill Burke Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 4:47 PM To: JBoss-User Subject: [JBoss-user] I need ammo All, I need help. I really need some references on who is using JBoss in production and to what scale. I'm meeting resistence on adopting JBoss at my company and really need this information to convince the nervous, uninformed, upper-upper management(CIO types) that this is the way to go. Thanks very much in advance, Bill Burke ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] I need ammo.
You're a pearl, Bill. This is exactly the sort of stuff I need for the promo material I'm preparing - unsolicited from-the-trenches testimonial. It may help to point out to your employers that they have no guarantees from the other container providers, and that JBoss gives them the ability to rescue themselves, which the other vendors don't. Point out that official support just means vested interest in maintaining customer loyalty, and that if they want evidence of vested interest Marc F has bet the farm on the success of JBoss. If anyone can furnish either medium to large testimonial for Bill's use then I would also appreciate a copy. If not a production app, what about benchmark figures? TPc? Bill, would it help to remind your PHB that you can always switch to another container? ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
