KR> RE: Nikasil...
Don't know about the finer points questioned here (like better overall designs, etc...) but I believe BMW cycles went to Nikasil in the 80's (or early 90's) for several reasons. One was weight, but the primary was heat transfer. It seems a lot is lost in the transfer from the linings to the heads, and this process eliminated this issue. I am sure there are many technical papers, patents, etc., for those who wish to dive deeper. Just not sure I need to go that far, but clearly it is the right technology, and while it may be new here, it is proven stuff!Also, I think rough EXTERIORS on castings increase surface area and help with heat dissipation, so smooth may not be good there. On the inside oil flow must be optimized, thus highly polished interiors are usually desired. Marc Lee Winnig mlwin...@hotmail.com (815) 301-5011 Cell and Vonage (801) 749-9460 FAX> I have always wondered about the roughness of the castings of the VW jugs and thought the billet stuff would be better but this information far exceeds what I would have expected. It looks like these jugs answer all of the needs, more power, better heat disapation longer TBO and so on. _ Get the Live.com Holiday Page for recipes, gift-giving ideas, and more. www.live.com/?addtemplate=holiday
KR> RE: Nikasil...
I think the advantage of Nikasil cylinders is they are cheap. Not for Corvairs/VWs it seems, but in model airplane engines it is the cheapest engine you can buy. They are often considered throw away engines. Nikasil cylinders can't be bored so they are a lot like Chromed aluminum cylinders. Kevin. -Original Message- From: mlwin...@hotmail.com To: kr...@mylist.net Sent: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 1:34 PM Subject: KR> RE: Nikasil... Don't know about the finer points questioned here (like better overall designs, etc...) but I believe BMW cycles went to Nikasil in the 80's (or early 90's) for several reasons. One was weight, but the primary was heat transfer. It seems a lot is lost in the transfer from the linings to the heads, and this process eliminated this issue. I am sure there are many technical papers, patents, etc., for those who wish to dive deeper. Just not sure I need to go that far, but clearly it is the right technology, and while it may be new here, it is proven stuff!Also, I think rough EXTERIORS on castings increase surface area and help with heat dissipation, so smooth may not be good there. On the inside oil flow must be optimized, thus highly polished interiors are usually desired. Marc Lee Winnig mlwin...@hotmail.com (815) 301-5011 Cell and Vonage (801) 749-9460 FAX> I have always wondered about the roughness of the castings of the VW jugs and thought the billet stuff would be better but this information far exceeds what I would have expected. It looks like these jugs answer all of the needs, more power, better heat disapation longer TBO and so on. _ Get the Live.com Holiday Page for recipes, gift-giving ideas, and more. www.live.com/?addtemplate=holiday ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
KR> RE: Nikasil...
Kevin wrote: > I think the advantage of Nikasil cylinders is they are cheap. Not for Corvairs/VWs it seems, but in model airplane engines it is the cheapest engine you can buy. They are often considered throw away engines. Nikasil cylinders can't be bored so they are a lot like Chromed aluminum cylinders. Nikasil isn't a material, it's a coating that's often applied to aluminum cylinders to improve wear resistance. Porsche Nikasiled just about every one of its cylinders at one time, and I don't think they did it because it's cheap! They did it so they could use lightweight aluminum cylinders that still have good longevity in the place of cast iron cylinders. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil for details. The article mentions that it fell from favor due to problems associated with high sulfur fuels, but 100LL probably doesn't have that problem. It's also somewhat tricky to apply. I'm working on a UAV engine project in which the folks that are building the engine insist that there's only one place in the world that knows how to Nikosil plate correctly. Applied incorrectly it has been known to flake off and cause real problems... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net --
KR> RE: Nikasil...
At 01:34 PM 12/21/2006, you wrote: >I think rough EXTERIORS on castings increase surface area and help >with heat dissipation, so smooth may not be good there.Marc Lee Winnig Rough surfaces also cause turbulence in the cooling air flow which is not good. Larry Flesner
KR> RE: Nikasil...
Then, what is "cool tin" for, if not to cause turbulance, slow down the air, so it can pick up the heat??? See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you at the 2007 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying has begun. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ---Original Message--- Rough surfaces also cause turbulence in the cooling air flow which is not good.
KR> RE: Nikasil...
The referance below is outdated. Further development has been made in resent years. I brought the cylinders to the KR flyin a few years ago and showed them. The cylinders are CNC machineed from a a solid block of aluminum. The nickle is molten liquid fused to the aluminum and then diamond honed to the cylinder diameter. The nickle is not a coating. Many racing engines have been built and raced in the past 10 years or so. The cylinders can be re-honed if dammaged. My resource that I delt with is LN Engineering. The web site is www.lnengineering.com . They will even build you an engine. They are not cheep. The have cylinders for Vairs and other engines. Ronald R. Eason Sr. Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com -- Original Message -- From: "Mark Langford"Reply-To: KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 15:40:34 -0600 Kevin wrote: > I think the advantage of Nikasil cylinders is they are cheap. Not for Corvairs/VWs it seems, but in model airplane engines it is the cheapest engine you can buy. They are often considered throw away engines. Nikasil cylinders can't be bored so they are a lot like Chromed aluminum cylinders. Nikasil isn't a material, it's a coating that's often applied to aluminum cylinders to improve wear resistance. Porsche Nikasiled just about every one of its cylinders at one time, and I don't think they did it because it's cheap! They did it so they could use lightweight aluminum cylinders that still have good longevity in the place of cast iron cylinders. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil for details. The article mentions that it fell from favor due to problems associated with high sulfur fuels, but 100LL probably doesn't have that problem. It's also somewhat tricky to apply. I'm working on a UAV engine project in which the folks that are building the engine insist that there's only one place in the world that knows how to Nikosil plate correctly. Applied incorrectly it has been known to flake off and cause real problems... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -- ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html Sent via the WebMail system at jrl-engineering.com
KR> RE: Nikasil...
Go to www.lnengineering.com for better info. Ronald R. Eason Sr. Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com -- Original Message -- From: tinya...@aol.com Reply-To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net> List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 16:14:19 -0500 I think the advantage of Nikasil cylinders is they are cheap. Not for Corvairs/VWs it seems, but in model airplane engines it is the cheapest engine you can buy. They are often considered throw away engines. Nikasil cylinders can't be bored so they are a lot like Chromed aluminum cylinders. Kevin. -Original Message- From: mlwin...@hotmail.com To: kr...@mylist.net Sent: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 1:34 PM Subject: KR> RE: Nikasil... Don't know about the finer points questioned here (like better overall designs, etc...) but I believe BMW cycles went to Nikasil in the 80's (or early 90's) for several reasons. One was weight, but the primary was heat transfer. It seems a lot is lost in the transfer from the linings to the heads, and this process eliminated this issue. I am sure there are many technical papers, patents, etc., for those who wish to dive deeper. Just not sure I need to go that far, but clearly it is the right technology, and while it may be new here, it is proven stuff!Also, I think rough EXTERIORS on castings increase surface area and help with heat dissipation, so smooth may not be good there. On the inside oil flow must be optimized, thus highly polished interiors are usually desired. Marc Lee Winnig mlwin...@hotmail.com (815) 301-5011 Cell and Vonage (801) 749-9460 FAX> I have always wondered about the roughness of the castings of the VW jugs and thought the billet stuff would be better but this information far exceeds what I would have expected. It looks like these jugs answer all of the needs, more power, better heat disapation longer TBO and so on. _ Get the Live.com Holiday Page for recipes, gift-giving ideas, and more. www.live.com/?addtemplate=holiday ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html Sent via the WebMail system at jrl-engineering.com
KR> RE: Nikasil...
The cool tin is there to keep the air going all the way around the cylinder instead of just going between the cylinders and blowing straight down. The fins on the bottom of the cylinder would not see any air flow past them if the cool tins were not installed. Pretty much all aircraft engines I can think of have a cool tin type of arrangement. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dan Heath Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 6:52 PM To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR> RE: Nikasil... Then, what is "cool tin" for, if not to cause turbulance, slow down the air, so it can pick up the heat??? See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you at the 2007 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying has begun. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ---Original Message--- Rough surfaces also cause turbulence in the cooling air flow which is not good. ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> RE: Nikasil...
I have a 1981 Porsche 911 which has nikasil bores. Nikasil does not wear much at all - much less than iron, It the rings and eventually the piston skirts wear. Nikasil is used in ally cylinders, the alternative is steel liners. As pots are never a prob, I see little real benefit as the main area of concern with VW engines ( especially running mogas ) is head wear. You prob need replace the heads twice for each pot replacement. Pete
KR> RE: Nikasil...
I have read everything I can find on the net with Nikasil. In the model airplane world anything with a coating on the cylinder is considered cheap. I think mostly because on model airplane engines they do the block and cylinder in one piece then coat the cylinder to get the hardness needed. It is a very cheap way of building an engine (low parts count), but is very lightweight. I still think of the Nikasil cylinder as a throw away part. It isn't shop rebuildable if damaged and new cylinders will have to be bought. I guess that makes it not so cheap. One web site did claim the Nikasil cylinder is 2-3 times stronger than chrome plated cylinders. Bottom line is any cast iron cylinder engine converted to these aluminum cylinders will be lighter weight. I may buy a set of Nikasil cylinders myself. Kevin. -Original Message- From: n5...@hiwaay.net To: kr...@mylist.net Sent: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 3:40 PM Subject: Re: KR> RE: Nikasil... Kevin wrote: > I think the advantage of Nikasil cylinders is they are cheap. Not for Corvairs/VWs it seems, but in model airplane engines it is the cheapest engine you can buy. They are often considered throw away engines. Nikasil cylinders can't be bored so they are a lot like Chromed aluminum cylinders. Nikasil isn't a material, it's a coating that's often applied to aluminum cylinders to improve wear resistance. Porsche Nikasiled just about every one of its cylinders at one time, and I don't think they did it because it's cheap! They did it so they could use lightweight aluminum cylinders that still have good longevity in the place of cast iron cylinders. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil for details. The article mentions that it fell from favor due to problems associated with high sulfur fuels, but 100LL probably doesn't have that problem. It's also somewhat tricky to apply. I'm working on a UAV engine project in which the folks that are building the engine insist that there's only one place in the world that knows how to Nikosil plate correctly. Applied incorrectly it has been known to flake off and cause real problems... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -- ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
KR> RE: Nikasil...
Lucky I SOLD ALL my BMW's and my Porsche-- GUESS I SHOULD HAVE THROWN THEM AWAY!!!Marc Lee Winnig mlwin...@hotmail.com (815) 301-5011 Cell and Vonage (801) 749-9460 FAX> To: kr...@mylist.net> Subject: Re: KR> RE: Nikasil...> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 10:27:00 -0500> From: tinya...@aol.com> > I have read everything I can find on the net with Nikasil. In the model airplane world anything with a coating on the cylinder is considered cheap. I think mostly because on model airplane engines they do the block and cylinder in one piece then coat the cylinder to get the hardness needed. It is a very cheap way of building an engine (low parts count), but is very lightweight. I still think of the Nikasil cylinder as a throw away part. It isn't shop rebuildable if damaged and new cylinders will have to be bought. I guess that makes it not so cheap. One web site did claim the Nikasil cylinder is 2-3 times stronger than chrome plated cylinders. Bottom line is any cast iron cylinder engine converted to these aluminum cylinders will be lighter weight. I may buy a set of Nikasil cylinders myself.> > Kevin.> > > > > > -Original Message-> From: n5...@hiwaay.net> To: kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 3:40 PM> Subject: Re: KR> RE: Nikasil...> > > Kevin wrote:> > > I think the advantage of Nikasil cylinders is they are cheap. Not for> Corvairs/VWs it seems, but in model airplane engines it is the cheapest> engine you can buy. They are often considered throw away engines. Nikasil> cylinders can't be bored so they are a lot like Chromed aluminum cylinders.> > Nikasil isn't a material, it's a coating that's often applied to aluminum> cylinders to improve wear resistance. Porsche Nikasiled just about every> one of its cylinders at one time, and I don't think they did it because it's> cheap! They did it so they could use lightweight aluminum cylinders that> still have good longevity in the place of cast iron cylinders. See> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil for details. The article mentions that> it fell from favor due to problems associated with high sulfur fuels, but> 100LL probably doesn't have that problem. It's also somewhat tricky to> apply.> > I'm working on a UAV engine project in which the folks that are building> the engine insist that there's only one place in the world that knows how to> Nikosil plate correctly. Applied incorrectly it has been known to flake off> and cause real problems...> > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama> see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford> email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net> --> > > ___> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html> > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.> ___> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _ Get into the holiday spirit, chat with Santa on Messenger. http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/santabot/default.aspx?locale=en-us