[libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report
I am not deterred from thinking that a practical daily use program in the language would be a great help to those working in it and on it. I will say that translating literature isn't my gift or talent, but I can break down technical concepts pretty well. I am interested in pursuing Firefox as a trial run, and if that doesn't break me, eventually return to LO and have a go at it. Thanks to everyone for the input, critique, and advice. If anyone knows folks on the Mozilla Firefox team I would be deeply appreciative of an introduction to their l10n effort. Thank you. Colin On Dec 9, 2015 9:31 AM, "Michael Bauer"wrote: > Somehow the mail client ate most of my email, reposting, sorry... > > --- > > Sorry for the delay in responding, I'm travelling. > > I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion > so far. > > Let me try and go through them one by one... > > 1) Orthography > > Terrible reason to turn down a project. Most l10n projects LO has involve > languages where spellling is a potentially contentious issue. Perhaps the > really big locales have very settled spelling systems but even they are not > immune. For example, I doubt that anyone is enforcing either pre or post > spelling reform spellings in the German project. Some locales actually > deliberately use l10n to help standardize spelling. > > 2) Team size > > Errr no. 1 dedicated locaizer is more than enough. I have a day job and I > also do virtually all the l10n work on Mozilla, LO, WorPress (both), VLC, > and several other projects. In fact, a single localizer can be more > effective in some instances provided they put in sufficient time and > effort. In fact having a team for Scottish Gaelic initially would have been > a hindrance, not a help because there would have been ENDLESS debates > around terminology and spelling. In a non-standardized language, a single > translator can produce translations which are superior than those of a > team, provided they are fluent and generally good with technology. > > 3) It's extinct or critically endangered > > Well, so is Scottish Gaelic, less than 60k speakers is hardly a stadium > full of people... l10n is a key part of any revitalization effort in a > society which is not cut off from technology. It is perhaps the one way in > which a marginalized language can gain a foothold on the screens of the > next generation, small as it may be. A program with a UI in a marginalized > language has a big wow factor if done well. If you localize Diablo III into > German, people just expect that, it's not news. Translate it into Nipmuck > and it'll be all over the airwaves. > > Wikipedia or even Ethnologue are not the pinnacle of information when it > comes to smaller languages. On several occasions have I come across > languages marked as extinct in one, but not the other or vice versa or even > where both were simply wrong. For example, they had a Basque Creole lumped > in with a Romani language code in once instance. > > 4) Better to translate literature > > Yes and no. I'm a very good localizer but I'm totally useless at > translating literature or poetry or songs. It's called a specialism, no > translator worth their money translate EVERYTHING. I'd be equally useless > at writing non-technical content. > > 5) Start with documentation/help > > No.It would raise the wrong expectations, if you give the average user a > screen that says Fàilte, unless highly cynical, they would expect the rest > in the same lingo too. > > As to the Help, who reads the Help? Ever? Unless they don't have web > access. Even if some folk use it, it's the worst starting point and a > soul-destroying task. > > 6) Professors say to prioritise proofing > > Maybe but that depends on the locale. To create a spellchecker you first > need either really good dictionary or ody of well spelled texts, plus > someone who can do code to some extent because doing a Hunspell package is > not entirely straight forward. Grammar checkers are equally nice but not a > priority to begin with I would say. Small languages often have not codified > their grammar fully and thus if you just write some rules, you'll just > annoy everybody. > > In the end, these are just opinions. They are neither uniform (I disagree > for one) not are they based on research. > > 7) Firefox > > That is actually the best alternative suggestion I've heard in this > debate. It might make sense to look into that. But either way, LO and > Firefox are both must-haves really so it doesn't make that much of a > difference which one you start with. Firefox, since it has Android and iOS > versions now, would get you more bang for your buck faster though to begin > with > > 8) Machine Translation > > Worst idea ever. MT relies on massive bilingual corpora - and that's just > the start of the headaches. The last thing a language like Nipmuck needs is > a MT system that cost them huge resources to produce and which outputs >
[libreoffice-l10n] Bavarian and Nipmuck
Sorry for the delay in responding, Im travelling. I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion so far. Let me try and go through them one by one... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report
dev-l...@lists.mozilla.org 09.12.2015 u 15:37, Greater Worcester Land Trust je napisao/la: I am not deterred from thinking that a practical daily use program in the language would be a great help to those working in it and on it. I will say that translating literature isn't my gift or talent, but I can break down technical concepts pretty well. I am interested in pursuing Firefox as a trial run, and if that doesn't break me, eventually return to LO and have a go at it. Thanks to everyone for the input, critique, and advice. If anyone knows folks on the Mozilla Firefox team I would be deeply appreciative of an introduction to their l10n effort. Thank you. Colin On Dec 9, 2015 9:31 AM, "Michael Bauer"wrote: Somehow the mail client ate most of my email, reposting, sorry... --- Sorry for the delay in responding, I'm travelling. I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion so far. Let me try and go through them one by one... 1) Orthography Terrible reason to turn down a project. Most l10n projects LO has involve languages where spellling is a potentially contentious issue. Perhaps the really big locales have very settled spelling systems but even they are not immune. For example, I doubt that anyone is enforcing either pre or post spelling reform spellings in the German project. Some locales actually deliberately use l10n to help standardize spelling. 2) Team size Errr no. 1 dedicated locaizer is more than enough. I have a day job and I also do virtually all the l10n work on Mozilla, LO, WorPress (both), VLC, and several other projects. In fact, a single localizer can be more effective in some instances provided they put in sufficient time and effort. In fact having a team for Scottish Gaelic initially would have been a hindrance, not a help because there would have been ENDLESS debates around terminology and spelling. In a non-standardized language, a single translator can produce translations which are superior than those of a team, provided they are fluent and generally good with technology. 3) It's extinct or critically endangered Well, so is Scottish Gaelic, less than 60k speakers is hardly a stadium full of people... l10n is a key part of any revitalization effort in a society which is not cut off from technology. It is perhaps the one way in which a marginalized language can gain a foothold on the screens of the next generation, small as it may be. A program with a UI in a marginalized language has a big wow factor if done well. If you localize Diablo III into German, people just expect that, it's not news. Translate it into Nipmuck and it'll be all over the airwaves. Wikipedia or even Ethnologue are not the pinnacle of information when it comes to smaller languages. On several occasions have I come across languages marked as extinct in one, but not the other or vice versa or even where both were simply wrong. For example, they had a Basque Creole lumped in with a Romani language code in once instance. 4) Better to translate literature Yes and no. I'm a very good localizer but I'm totally useless at translating literature or poetry or songs. It's called a specialism, no translator worth their money translate EVERYTHING. I'd be equally useless at writing non-technical content. 5) Start with documentation/help No.It would raise the wrong expectations, if you give the average user a screen that says Fàilte, unless highly cynical, they would expect the rest in the same lingo too. As to the Help, who reads the Help? Ever? Unless they don't have web access. Even if some folk use it, it's the worst starting point and a soul-destroying task. 6) Professors say to prioritise proofing Maybe but that depends on the locale. To create a spellchecker you first need either really good dictionary or ody of well spelled texts, plus someone who can do code to some extent because doing a Hunspell package is not entirely straight forward. Grammar checkers are equally nice but not a priority to begin with I would say. Small languages often have not codified their grammar fully and thus if you just write some rules, you'll just annoy everybody. In the end, these are just opinions. They are neither uniform (I disagree for one) not are they based on research. 7) Firefox That is actually the best alternative suggestion I've heard in this debate. It might make sense to look into that. But either way, LO and Firefox are both must-haves really so it doesn't make that much of a difference which one you start with. Firefox, since it has Android and iOS versions now, would get you more bang for your buck faster though to begin with 8) Machine Translation Worst idea ever. MT relies on massive bilingual corpora - and that's just the start of the headaches. The last thing a language like Nipmuck needs is a MT system that cost them huge resources to produce and which outputs semi-gibberish at best. Irish is in a much better position regarding
[libreoffice-l10n] Bavarian and Nipmuck - report
Somehow the mail client ate most of my email, reposting, sorry... --- Sorry for the delay in responding, Im travelling. I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion so far. Let me try and go through them one by one... 1) Orthography Terrible reason to turn down a project. Most l10n projects LO has involve languages where spellling is a potentially contentious issue. Perhaps the really big locales have very settled spelling systems but even they are not immune. For example, I doubt that anyone is enforcing either pre or post spelling reform spellings in the German project. Some locales actually deliberately use l10n to help standardize spelling. 2) Team size Errr no. 1 dedicated locaizer is more than enough. I have a day job and I also do virtually all the l10n work on Mozilla, LO, WorPress (both), VLC, and several other projects. In fact, a single localizer can be more effective in some instances provided they put in sufficient time and effort. In fact having a team for Scottish Gaelic initially would have been a hindrance, not a help because there would have been ENDLESS debates around terminology and spelling. In a non-standardized language, a single translator can produce translations which are superior than those of a team, provided they are fluent and generally good with technology. 3) Its extinct or critically endangered Well, so is Scottish Gaelic, less than 60k speakers is hardly a stadium full of people... l10n is a key part of any revitalization effort in a society which is not cut off from technology. It is perhaps the one way in which a marginalized language can gain a foothold on the screens of the next generation, small as it may be. A program with a UI in a marginalized language has a big wow factor if done well. If you localize Diablo III into German, people just expect that, its not news. Translate it into Nipmuck and itll be all over the airwaves. Wikipedia or even Ethnologue are not the pinnacle of information when it comes to smaller languages. On several occasions have I come across languages marked as extinct in one, but not the other or vice versa or even where both were simply wrong. For example, they had a Basque Creole lumped in with a Romani language code in once instance. 4) Better to translate literature Yes and no. Im a very good localizer but Im totally useless at translating literature or poetry or songs. Its called a specialism, no translator worth their money translate EVERYTHING. Id be equally useless at writing non-technical content. 5) Start with documentation/help No.It would raise the wrong expectations, if you give the average user a screen that says Filte, unless highly cynical, they would expect the rest in the same lingo too. As to the Help, who reads the Help? Ever? Unless they dont have web access. Even if some folk use it, its the worst starting point and a soul-destroying task. 6) Professors say to prioritise proofing Maybe but that depends on the locale. To create a spellchecker you first need either really good dictionary or ody of well spelled texts, plus someone who can do code to some extent because doing a Hunspell package is not entirely straight forward. Grammar checkers are equally nice but not a priority to begin with I would say. Small languages often have not codified their grammar fully and thus if you just write some rules, youll just annoy everybody. In the end, these are just opinions. They are neither uniform (I disagree for one) not are they based on research. 7) Firefox That is actually the best alternative suggestion Ive heard in this debate. It might make sense to look into that. But either way, LO and Firefox are both must-haves really so it doesnt make that much of a difference which one you start with. Firefox, since it has Android and iOS versions now, would get you more bang for your buck faster though to begin with 8) Machine Translation Worst idea ever. MT relies on massive bilingual corpora - and thats just the start of the headaches. The last thing a language like Nipmuck needs is a MT system that cost them huge resources to produce and which outputs semi-gibberish at best. Irish is in a much better position regarding English/Irish data and yet Google Translate produces Irish which either makes you laugh yourself silly or makes you cry. Long story short, my view is, welcome to both, just have a moment to consider the implications regarding time/effort/other challenges and if you still think its a good idea, good on you. Michael -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report
He doesn't need to hit the Dev list, I can help him set up the initial bit this weekend once I'm back at my desk. Michael -- Akerbeltz • Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon Fòn: +44 141 9464437 Facs: +44 141 9452701 Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, feuch e! www.iGaidhlig.net Original message From: Mihovil StanićDate:09/12/2015 15:40 (GMT+01:00) To: l10n@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report dev-l...@lists.mozilla.org 09.12.2015 u 15:37, Greater Worcester Land Trust je napisao/la: > I am not deterred from thinking that a practical daily use program in the > language would be a great help to those working in it and on it. > > I will say that translating literature isn't my gift or talent, but I can > break down technical concepts pretty well. > > I am interested in pursuing Firefox as a trial run, and if that doesn't > break me, eventually return to LO and have a go at it. > > Thanks to everyone for the input, critique, and advice. > > If anyone knows folks on the Mozilla Firefox team I would be deeply > appreciative of an introduction to their l10n effort. > > Thank you. > > Colin > On Dec 9, 2015 9:31 AM, "Michael Bauer" wrote: > >> Somehow the mail client ate most of my email, reposting, sorry... >> >> --- >> >> Sorry for the delay in responding, I'm travelling. >> >> I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion >> so far. >> >> Let me try and go through them one by one... >> >> 1) Orthography >> >> Terrible reason to turn down a project. Most l10n projects LO has involve >> languages where spellling is a potentially contentious issue. Perhaps the >> really big locales have very settled spelling systems but even they are not >> immune. For example, I doubt that anyone is enforcing either pre or post >> spelling reform spellings in the German project. Some locales actually >> deliberately use l10n to help standardize spelling. >> >> 2) Team size >> >> Errr no. 1 dedicated locaizer is more than enough. I have a day job and I >> also do virtually all the l10n work on Mozilla, LO, WorPress (both), VLC, >> and several other projects. In fact, a single localizer can be more >> effective in some instances provided they put in sufficient time and >> effort. In fact having a team for Scottish Gaelic initially would have been >> a hindrance, not a help because there would have been ENDLESS debates >> around terminology and spelling. In a non-standardized language, a single >> translator can produce translations which are superior than those of a >> team, provided they are fluent and generally good with technology. >> >> 3) It's extinct or critically endangered >> >> Well, so is Scottish Gaelic, less than 60k speakers is hardly a stadium >> full of people... l10n is a key part of any revitalization effort in a >> society which is not cut off from technology. It is perhaps the one way in >> which a marginalized language can gain a foothold on the screens of the >> next generation, small as it may be. A program with a UI in a marginalized >> language has a big wow factor if done well. If you localize Diablo III into >> German, people just expect that, it's not news. Translate it into Nipmuck >> and it'll be all over the airwaves. >> >> Wikipedia or even Ethnologue are not the pinnacle of information when it >> comes to smaller languages. On several occasions have I come across >> languages marked as extinct in one, but not the other or vice versa or even >> where both were simply wrong. For example, they had a Basque Creole lumped >> in with a Romani language code in once instance. >> >> 4) Better to translate literature >> >> Yes and no. I'm a very good localizer but I'm totally useless at >> translating literature or poetry or songs. It's called a specialism, no >> translator worth their money translate EVERYTHING. I'd be equally useless >> at writing non-technical content. >> >> 5) Start with documentation/help >> >> No.It would raise the wrong expectations, if you give the average user a >> screen that says Fàilte, unless highly cynical, they would expect the rest >> in the same lingo too. >> >> As to the Help, who reads the Help? Ever? Unless they don't have web >> access. Even if some folk use it, it's the worst starting point and a >> soul-destroying task. >> >> 6) Professors say to prioritise proofing >> >> Maybe but that depends on the locale. To create a spellchecker you first >> need either really good dictionary or ody of well spelled texts, plus >> someone who can do code to some extent because doing a Hunspell package is >> not entirely straight forward. Grammar checkers are equally nice but not a >> priority to begin with I would say. Small languages often have not codified >> their grammar fully and thus if you just write some rules, you'll just >> annoy everybody. >> >> In the end, these are just opinions. They are neither uniform (I disagree >>
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report
Hello, Le 09/12/2015 15:37, Greater Worcester Land Trust a écrit : > I am not deterred from thinking that a practical daily use program in the > language would be a great help to those working in it and on it. Oh, of course, this is not what I had in mind. I think the best way to express yourself is to have the tools in your language. What as said is that LibreOffice is quite terrible to begin with, and there are alternatives that maybe really interesting for users and less exhausting for a translator working alone (I've done it for French for years :-) > > I will say that translating literature isn't my gift or talent, but I can > break down technical concepts pretty well. > > I am interested in pursuing Firefox as a trial run, and if that doesn't > break me, eventually return to LO and have a go at it. Great, try to get more people around you, no need for ten persons, but 3 to 4 is already a big team. > > Thanks to everyone for the input, critique, and advice. Don't hesitate to come back to us if you need anything concerning localization even if it's not LO. > > If anyone knows folks on the Mozilla Firefox team I would be deeply > appreciative of an introduction to their l10n effort. Mihovil gave you the link to their l10n list, if you have difficulty or lack of answer (but I don't think so) don't hesitate to ping me directly. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org GSM: +33683901545 IRC: sophi Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help
Hi Robert, all, Le 9 déc. 2015 18:33, "Joel Madero"a écrit : > > Sorry didn't include Robert in the message - adding him. @Robert - please read below. > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Joel Madero wrote: >> >> Hi Robert, >> >> So the news is not good (at least in my opinion). Of course you can continue doing the videos but it seems like because you can't speak in 200 languages we can't link it in the help files. Having English only would interfere with locale teams (I'm still unclear how but I'm no expert there and one of the experts has guaranteed me that such a link would have dire affects on the community). So let me reformulate it a bit differently. First Robert, thanks a lot for your contributions. What we do not want in localised version is content in en_US language. Even if the sound is translated, UI still will be in English and it's very difficult to focus on what you learn when all what you see is in a foreign language. >> >> So what you could do is just create a youtube channel and post the videos...obviously visibility would be substantially less but, that's where we are. There are lot of other ways to advertise content created by the community. For example post each uploaded video to a twitter dedicated account linked to a FB and G+ pages, post to the documentation blog, etc >> >> You could then create a wiki somewhere useful that links to your videos. >> That's another possibility and link it to the site >> Wish I had better news - I'm still looking into the possibilities but right now there seems to be a big blocker in getting such a cool addition to the product. Yes for the product, that does not mean it's the only way to give visibility to Robert's contributions. Cheers Sophie >> >> >> Best, >> Joel >> >> On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Sophie wrote: >>> >>> Sorry for the direct message, was suppose to go on the list >>> Cheers >>> Sophie >>> >>> >>> Message transféré >>> Sujet : Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help >>> Date : Wed, 9 Dec 2015 18:00:35 +0100 >>> De : Sophie >>> Pour : Joel Madero >>> >>> Hi Joel, >>> Le 09/12/2015 17:35, Joel Madero a écrit : >>> > Hi All, >>> > >>> > We have a volunteer (Robert Alexander) who has started making some tutorial >>> > videos that are supposed to coincide with help files. >>> > >>> > My hope is that we can figure out some way to link these files within the >>> > help itself. Any thoughts on that being a possibility? If we use youtube >>> > (at least at the beginning) I believe that translating is possible for >>> > subtitles. >>> > >>> > A couple examples are below: >>> > https://youtu.be/Q8V-5yeTHCM >>> > https://youtu.be/DtEzyM28rlc >>> > >>> > >>> > Thoughts much appreciated. This would obviously be an ongoing task but I >>> > think that having tutorials for lots of features would be quite helpful for >>> > those who aren't capable or interested in reading help files (for whatever >>> > reason). >>> >>> But UI will still be in English, and handling translations in Youtube is >>> not really ideal. Also, lot of people don't have external internet >>> access or have YT blocked in their company so they won't be able to >>> access them anyway. >>> >>> The best would be to create a dedicated playlist on TDF channel like we >>> have done for French, see: >>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0pdzjvYW9RFl1ZRu8MkE3QxWQSt7Xktk >>> and link it to the documentation on the wiki. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Sophie >>> >>> -- >>> Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org >>> GSM: +33683901545 >>> IRC: sophi >>> Co-founder - Release coordinator >>> The Document Foundation >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ >>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Joel Madero >> LibreOffice QA Volunteer >> jmadero@gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Joel Madero > LibreOffice QA Volunteer > jmadero@gmail.com > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help
On 09/12/2015 19:50, Sophie Gautier wrote: > Yes for the product, that does not mean it's the only way to give > visibility to Robert's contributions. I have read the thread, but being in bed with flu since this morning I could not replicate. I think that help videos are a great marketing tool, which we can use in several ways. Once I am out of the flu, I will get in touch with Robert (and Joel) to keep this ball rolling. Best, Italo -- Italo Vignoli - Marketing & PR mobile +39.348.5653829 - email / jabber it...@libreoffice.org hangout / jabber italo.vign...@gmail.com - skype italovignoli GPG Key ID - 0xAAB8D5C0 DB75 1534 3FD0 EA5F 56B5 FDA6 DE82 934C AAB8 D5C0 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help
Sophie wrote: >> What we do not want in localised version is content in en_US language. >> Even if the sound is translated, UI still will be in English and it's >> very difficult to focus on what you learn when all what you see is in >> a foreign language. In terms of the content that we provide on a per-language basis, I agree that it's important to be able to provide consistency to those users who desire it. For those who wish to see only content in language XYZ, then we should strive to show them only content in XYZ. On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Joel Maderowrote: > Just for full transparency here. Sophie and I had an extended talk on > chat and I'm of the belief that to prevent this from getting into help > files because other locales aren't doing the same is not the smartest > way to move forward. I instead would prefer including it and then > supporting locales to do the same - in the respective languages, with > the right GUI, etcThese then would be linked in the locales help > files and it would empower the community, expand on the product, and > give visibility to a great tool (videos that literally show exactly how > to use features). For those who are multilingual or just adventurous, I can see the potential benefit if users could choose on a program-wide level to toggle on extra non-localized content (let's call it "Extended Documentation") for each page of the Help. If we were to have rather stringent rules about what content (format, length, structure, license, etc..) could be included in this fashion, then we'd have a decent roadmap on what content we'd like to see localized next. If we're clever about how we include Extended Documentation, we could even recruit for translation/localization by adding a small message to any non-localized content such as "Want to see this content in $CURRENT_LOCALE? Click here to help out!" > I'd prefer discussing a better solution, one where we can agree that the > tool is awesome for users, that the more visibility the better, and one > that empowers contributors to follow Robert's lead and developer > tutorial videos in their respective languages. I'd suggest that any video content included or linked from the Documentation be provided in a similar fashion to our existing text content. Off the top of my head, this would include: - Licensing under CC-BY or CC-BY-SA 3+ - Use of free/open file formats - "Source" video archived safely somewhere in TDF infra - Inclusion of extra source materials (e.g. talking points used to make the video, example docs displayed or demonstrated during the video, etc..) with the archived source video to help others who may wish to edit or reshoot the content - Ability to Download or view video using only Free Software (Archive.org?) - Strong encouragement for any cross-platform content to be demonstrated using the Doc Team's preferred Free Software GUI shell [1] It would be great to have subtitles provided for each source video from the get-go, however that's definitely a task that can be handled independently, freeing up video creators to create more videos... Cheers, --R [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Production#Sample_screenshots Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Software_screenshots -- Robinson Tryon QA Engineer - The Document Foundation LibreOffice Community Outreach Herald qu...@libreoffice.org 802-379-9482 | IRC: colonelqubit on Freenode -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help
Hi, Creation of a video for a help is good idea. But, in my opinion, before as we will accept a decision about including video or links to a video in the Help, we must solve a few issue. 1. Who will make it? We have huge amount not translated information (the help, FAQ, Guides) that destined for a help of users. [1][2][3] The Help has a lot of incomplete and outdated information, moreover, it requires reorganization and leading to standards. In order to bring it into order, the documentation team needs to have a lot more people, but they are not. Guides are better, but if you look at the gap from the current version of the LO, you'll see that Guides have the same problem. More free-form of documentation is FAQ in Wiki TDF, but it also requires the big contribution. 2. What will be made? I like the idea of video, because it can help users with disabilities easier to learn of the LO. But, what do you propose to give to users? If this is not reading and show what is happening in the Help article, it will not be the help video and it isn't clear why links in the Help. If it is the help, it will be necessary to quickly make changes to the video, that the video will correspond to the Help. But I still doubt that the video should be included in an article in the Help. 3. What standards corresponds to the video? As we already know, we are trying to bring documentation standards. [4] I am not going to touch on a lot of issues, I note a few that are on the surface. The sound should be without unnecessary noise and the voice of the announcer should be professional and belongs to a native speaker. If the first achieve easy with a help of technology, the second is difficult. I read lectures for 2 years for an audience, and tried to make video tutorials, and I understand that creature of the high-quality video tutorial is difficult. [5] There are also more simple questions such as the cursor does not have to dance to the monitor, keystrokes be displayed and so on. The same questions apply to the l10n team. If you look at the Help, Guides and FAQs, then you see that the translation lags far behind for many languages. On the other hand we have FAQs in the wiki TDF. The FAQs are demand more than all the help and it does not have the strict requirements of the documentation. Dennis Roczek have installed the plugin to embed videos in the wiki TDF from YouTube. And you can start with that to make a video for the FAQs. In addition, it allows to carry out an experiment to make sure that the project is viable and will not be in a state of almost coma like almost all the documentation for LO. [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications [2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq [3] https://help.libreoffice.org/Main_Page [4] https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2015/10/24/tdf-freelance-job-opening-201510-02-documentation-lead/ [5] https://youtu.be/Ae0pAV3WEQc?list=PLq31XmmWhfYFiUBzCSb8Xquf5FMiDxRfs Best regards, Lera В письме от 10 декабря 2015 01:07:31 пользователь Robert Alexander написал: > Hi everyone, > thank you all for putting so much consideration into this discussion. > > I am quite happy to independently create tutorial videos for LibreOffice if > it turns out that this is the best route for the project as a whole. I was > originally going to do that, but decided it would be good to get in touch > in case you needed specific kinds of tutorials. So whatever happens, my > plan is to make LibreOffice tutorials for the foreseeable future. > > My current workflow means that I create transcripts(technically scripts) of > my videos, which may be helpful to you as no one will have to go back and > create them if they are needed. > > Regards, > Robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted