Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:21 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor wrote: >> Yup. It is, in fact, necessary to know Qt stylesheets to change >> background colors ;-) > > I think we can shoot for the best of both worlds here, the template > system can provide a tree of simple Leo settings for all the simple > design elements (colors, fonts, font sizes, border widths, etc.) If > you want a gradient fill that changes when you hover over a widget, > *then* you'd need to hack the stylesheet yourself, but for the core > stuff, a simple user editable tree (Leo outline) of settings should be > possible. I agree. In fact, Leo can and should make settings even easier, as I'll explain in a new thread. > Although I'm not thinking of combo boxes and tick boxes immediately > (although they might not be that hard to layer on top of @color and > @string nodes etc.) I think the simple menu taking you to the right > part of a simple settings tree for things like colors, fonts, font > sizes, border widths, etc. will help a lot. That really is the first > non-bug fixing thing I want to spend Leo time on, I just wish I had > more of it. I get tired of hearing myself say I'm going to do X and > not getting it done. A good idea. And it's compatible with the changes that are coming soon. Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 17:27:28 -0500 "Edward K. Ream" wrote: > On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Fidel N > wrote: > > > I also asked for a settings GUI, because IMO, this is screening out [snip] > 3. The most important point you raise here is about the necessity of > learning Qt stylesheets in order to change settings. > > This isn't great, but what we had before was worse: a huge number of > settings that modified various aspects of Leo's appearance, without > either the power or generality of Qt style sheets. > > > I know someone will think "its not necessary to know pyqt to change > > the background colors", but I have been there, and otherwise you > > don't really know what you are touching // how to edit that. > > Yup. It is, in fact, necessary to know Qt stylesheets to change > background colors ;-) I think we can shoot for the best of both worlds here, the template system can provide a tree of simple Leo settings for all the simple design elements (colors, fonts, font sizes, border widths, etc.) If you want a gradient fill that changes when you hover over a widget, *then* you'd need to hack the stylesheet yourself, but for the core stuff, a simple user editable tree (Leo outline) of settings should be possible. > > Also, having to restart the app for every change to make effect > > makes everything much slower (for a newbie), all of this resulting > > in non programmers running away from Leo as fast as they can. > > There should be a faq about this. The trick is to edit the settings > in one copy of Leo, and test in another. If the test file is small, > this saves a lot of time. This is true in general for settings - for style related stuff (colors, fonts, font sizes, border widths, etc.) restarting is not necessary. > > Just a few combo boxes with option lists, + tick boxes for boolean > > values, would make a huge difference. If the need to restart Leo > > was removed, that would make things perfect. > > In general, I think this is a bad idea, but an exception might be made > for the most important items: font, font size and maybe some colors. Although I'm not thinking of combo boxes and tick boxes immediately (although they might not be that hard to layer on top of @color and @string nodes etc.) I think the simple menu taking you to the right part of a simple settings tree for things like colors, fonts, font sizes, border widths, etc. will help a lot. That really is the first non-bug fixing thing I want to spend Leo time on, I just wish I had more of it. I get tired of hearing myself say I'm going to do X and not getting it done. I would think that there are some settings which will always require a restart, seeing plugins can use settings in just about anyway they want, and don't monitor them for changes later. Cheers -Terry > No way am I going to build this back into Leo itself, but it would be > conceivable as a plugin. All contributions gratefully accepted ;-) > However, this plugin would really like to update the settings > immediately, which brings us to... > > Allowing settings to take effect immediately would be a major project, > especially considering how many setting there are. Many settings are > cached for speed, and such caches (ivars of some classes) would have > to be updated. In other cases, gui widgets must be reconfigure based > on the settings. > > All this is certainly doable, but it would be a major project, at > least as big as the recent reorg, and possibly larger. At present, I > am focused on getting Leo 4.12 out the door, so my appetite for this > project is meager at present. > > > But then again, this is a dev time problem, so only thing I can do > > till I get some extra time to develop that myself, is to remain > > extremely grateful for Leo as is right now. > > :-) Thanks for your patience. > > Edward > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Fidel N wrote: > I also asked for a settings GUI, because IMO, this is screening out a lot of > people that would otherwise use Leo for non-programming related stuff. Leo once had a settings gui. I ripped it out because it was a mistake. We aren't going there again. But see below. > Something as simple as Notepad++ settings/preferences menu, just a simple > tick menu, would make much more people remain in Leo. Imo, Leo outlines are the one and only correct way to organize huge numbers of settings. You won't change my mind about that. Leo has hundreds, if not thousands of settings. A flat organization would suck. And it wouldn't solve the more serious problems you mention below. > Even if you love the concept, clones, etc, if you must learn python and pyqt > and Leo structures and Leo @node_id inheritance before you can edit that, > you simply wont. There are two, no three issues here: 1. The Leo devs realized for the last major release that clones were a bad idea in leoSettings.leo. All newbies want and need to play with settings, and few if any newbies are comfortable with clones. So we decided that every setting would appear exactly once in LeoSettings.leo. Afaik, that has never created any problems. Furthermore, users are always free to use clones in their myLeoSettings.leo. 2. Terry has created a really nifty templating scheme. It's on my list to make sure that this scheme is explained clearly at the top of LeoSettings.leo, somewhere in the "About this file" tree. 3. The most important point you raise here is about the necessity of learning Qt stylesheets in order to change settings. This isn't great, but what we had before was worse: a huge number of settings that modified various aspects of Leo's appearance, without either the power or generality of Qt style sheets. > I know someone will think "its not necessary to know pyqt to change the > background colors", but I have been there, and otherwise you don't really > know what you are touching // how to edit that. Yup. It is, in fact, necessary to know Qt stylesheets to change background colors ;-) > Also, having to restart the app for every change to make effect makes > everything much slower (for a newbie), all of this resulting in non > programmers running away from Leo as fast as they can. There should be a faq about this. The trick is to edit the settings in one copy of Leo, and test in another. If the test file is small, this saves a lot of time. > Just a few combo boxes with option lists, + tick boxes for boolean values, > would make a huge difference. If the need to restart Leo was removed, that > would make things perfect. In general, I think this is a bad idea, but an exception might be made for the most important items: font, font size and maybe some colors. No way am I going to build this back into Leo itself, but it would be conceivable as a plugin. All contributions gratefully accepted ;-) However, this plugin would really like to update the settings immediately, which brings us to... Allowing settings to take effect immediately would be a major project, especially considering how many setting there are. Many settings are cached for speed, and such caches (ivars of some classes) would have to be updated. In other cases, gui widgets must be reconfigure based on the settings. All this is certainly doable, but it would be a major project, at least as big as the recent reorg, and possibly larger. At present, I am focused on getting Leo 4.12 out the door, so my appetite for this project is meager at present. > But then again, this is a dev time problem, so only thing I can do till I > get some extra time to develop that myself, is to remain extremely grateful > for Leo as is right now. :-) Thanks for your patience. Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:14:46 -0500
"Edward K. Ream" wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 3:00 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor
> wrote:
>
>
> >> > So, we need a git commit hook to update version.py on every
> >> > commit.
>
> > I have a draft hook written, will share soon.
Ok, so this is way more complicated than it seems :-)
1) We can't put the sha1 of the commit into the version file, because
that would change the version file, which would change the sha1...
So I propose identifying builds with text of the form: 20140814161038
2) I've written two hooks, a pre-commit hook that checks if there's
anything to commit, and if there is, updates
leo/core/commit_timestamp.json, which looks like this:
{
"asctime": "Thu Aug 14 16:10:38 2014",
"parent": "a69585e26f8162e652bee9eb6d982e55ec615e0e",
"timestamp": "20140814161038"
}
hmmm, it occurs to me it should be possible to include the commit
message in here, oddly enough.
and a commit-msg hook that grabs the Leo Build ID (timestamp) from here,
and adds it to the commit message.
So when a user complains about build 20140814161038, a quick
git log --grep=20140814161038
will report the commit. I usually browse the repo with gitk, which can
also search for these build IDs easily.
3) Finally, I said this was complicated, hooks execute arbitrary code
on your computer, so git won't install them automatically, hence:
leo/extensions/hooks/install_hooks.py which a developer must run to
install the hooks.
Oh, and the hooks are written in Python and start with
#!/usr/bin/python and install_hooks.py does
os.chmod(data[hook+"PATH"], 0o744) but I don't know if that's
sufficient on Windows.
Cheers -Terry
> Excellent. Thanks you.
>
> I'm investigating what happens without any settings file, except for
> the file being loaded.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 3:00 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor wrote: >> > So, we need a git commit hook to update version.py on every commit. > I have a draft hook written, will share soon. Excellent. Thanks you. I'm investigating what happens without any settings file, except for the file being loaded. Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 14:51:53 -0500 "Edward K. Ream" wrote: > On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 10:58 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor > wrote: > > > > It's not ok to require that people use `git` to get it, that's > > unreasonable. > > I agree. It's not a requirement--it's just the easiest, quickest > way :-) > > > So, we need a git commit hook to update version.py on every commit. > > Yes. This will save lots of time and confusion in the long run. I've > put it my immediate to-do list, unless you would like to take a > crack... I have a draft hook written, will share soon. Cheers -Terry > Edward > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 10:58 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor wrote: > It's not ok to require that people use `git` to get it, that's > unreasonable. I agree. It's not a requirement--it's just the easiest, quickest way :-) > So, we need a git commit hook to update version.py on every commit. Yes. This will save lots of time and confusion in the long run. I've put it my immediate to-do list, unless you would like to take a crack... Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Dufriz wrote: > On Thursday, 14 August 2014 17:49:08 UTC+1, Fidel N wrote: > > > > I knew very few of programming, nothing of python, and now I know > > both, because I had the time, loved the concept of Leo, and could > > devote my time to study both. > > > > I intend to take the same path as you. I just wish I have the time > and the patience required. > > > I also asked for a settings GUI, because IMO, this is screening out a > lot > > of people that would otherwise use Leo for non-programming related > > stuff. Something as simple as Notepad++ settings/preferences menu, > > just a simple tick menu, would make much more people remain in Leo. > > Even if you love the concept, clones, etc, if you must learn python > > and pyqt and Leo structures and Leo @node_id inheritance before you > > can edit that, you simply wont. > > I know someone will think "its not neccesary to know pyqt to change > > the background colors", but I have been there, and otherwise you > > dont really know what you are touching // how to edit that. > > Also, having to restart the app for every change to make effect > > makes everything much slower (for a newbie), all of this resulting > > in non programmers running away from Leo as fast as they can. > > Just a few comboboxes with option lists, + tickboxes for boolean > > values, would make a huge difference. If the need to restart Leo > > was removed, that would make things perfect. > > > > But then again, this is a dev time problem, so only thing I can do > > till I get some extra time to develop that myself, is to remain > > extremely grateful for Leo as is right now. > > > > I do believe that a middle ground could be struck for the management > of settings, between the excessively dumbed down UI of all other > general-use programs and the overly complicated (as in the current Indeed the previously discussed blueprint for making UI config easier is a middle ground along the lines you describe, and once the tricky bits are done, it should be quite easy to set it up to cover a lot config. options very quickly. The tricky parts are copying sufficient but not excessive content from LeoSettings to myLeoSettings, and accounting for themes. It's so easy to think "tell the user to move all but one theme node out of their @settings tree"... but that's back where we started. Anyway, I'll try and find time. Cheers -Terry > case) Qt-based-only interface which excludes those who are not > advanced programmers. I, for one, have programming experience, though > not with Python/PyQt, so I am not at all scared of editing text files > for settings. HOWEVER, don't you think that the present method of > managing settings is way too complicated, and unnecessarily so? I > mean, the user has to manually modify the text-based settings (which > is OK, although it is not at all easy) but then he also has to *run a > script in order to compile the settings via the script*. Come on. > Does anyone think that this is even remotely normal?!? > (No hard feelings, I hope) > > The middle way I was hinting to would be having something similar to > this: > > color-background-body-pane: > color-foreground-body-pane: > font-size-text-body-pane: > font-type-body-pane: > color-background-log-pane: > color-foreground-log-pane: > font-size-text-log-pane: > font-type-log-pane: > > and so on... > > The settings management would be still text-based, but it would be: > 1) all within one node > 2) no scripts required > 3) clearly understandable variable names > > In short, it would be something humanly readable and understandable. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thursday, 14 August 2014 17:49:08 UTC+1, Fidel N wrote: > > I knew very few of programming, nothing of python, and now I know both, > because I had the time, loved the concept of Leo, and could devote my time > to study both. > I intend to take the same path as you. I just wish I have the time and the patience required. I also asked for a settings GUI, because IMO, this is screening out a lot > of people that would otherwise use Leo for non-programming related stuff. > Something as simple as Notepad++ settings/preferences menu, just a simple > tick menu, would make much more people remain in Leo. > Even if you love the concept, clones, etc, if you must learn python and > pyqt and Leo structures and Leo @node_id inheritance before you can edit > that, you simply wont. > I know someone will think "its not neccesary to know pyqt to change the > background colors", but I have been there, and otherwise you dont really > know what you are touching // how to edit that. > Also, having to restart the app for every change to make effect makes > everything much slower (for a newbie), all of this resulting in non > programmers running away from Leo as fast as they can. > Just a few comboboxes with option lists, + tickboxes for boolean values, > would make a huge difference. If the need to restart Leo was removed, that > would make things perfect. > > But then again, this is a dev time problem, so only thing I can do till I > get some extra time to develop that myself, is to remain extremely grateful > for Leo as is right now. > I do believe that a middle ground could be struck for the management of settings, between the excessively dumbed down UI of all other general-use programs and the overly complicated (as in the current case) Qt-based-only interface which excludes those who are not advanced programmers. I, for one, have programming experience, though not with Python/PyQt, so I am not at all scared of editing text files for settings. HOWEVER, don't you think that the present method of managing settings is way too complicated, and unnecessarily so? I mean, the user has to manually modify the text-based settings (which is OK, although it is not at all easy) but then he also has to *run a script in order to compile the settings via the script*. Come on. Does anyone think that this is even remotely normal?!? (No hard feelings, I hope) The middle way I was hinting to would be having something similar to this: color-background-body-pane: color-foreground-body-pane: font-size-text-body-pane: font-type-body-pane: color-background-log-pane: color-foreground-log-pane: font-size-text-log-pane: font-type-log-pane: and so on... The settings management would be still text-based, but it would be: 1) all within one node 2) no scripts required 3) clearly understandable variable names In short, it would be something humanly readable and understandable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
Terry said: >(Summary - quite possibly Dufriz is using the latest code, can't tell >from the log pane content) Precisely. The version I am running was downloaded from git itself yesterday or the day before. The About window (whose data I had copied into the post) does not report updated info about the version. Terry said: > Well, if you'd read the instructions, you'd have been able to get > frustrated at a completely different step in the process :-} :-) ... > Sorry about all the frustration, and to be fair with it being broken > by the missing "c," thing, maybe you had followed this procedure > at one point and understandably thought it didn't work, on account > of it not working :-/ Yes, as a matter of fact I do recall trying to run a script at one point, and getting an error message. Anyway, I have now followed your latest instructions, but I still get an error message while running the script. Moreover, the part of the script that I corrected as per your instructions was commented out. Of course I removed the leading # before running the script. Here is the error message that I get: exception executing script AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'children' line 471: p = self * line 472: return len(p.v.children) line 473: #@+node:ekr.20031218072017.915: *4* p.getX & VNode compatibility traversal routines line 474: # These methods are useful abbreviations. By the way, the next line below what you mentioned is commented out: # c.selectPosition(nd) Should I uncomment it too? By the way, I noticed yet another commented out line, above: #X cp = c.p Could these be responsible for the error? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
Dufriz is facing the same exact problems with GUI config I had when I joined Leo. I knew very few of programming, nothing of python, and now I know both, because I had the time, loved the concept of Leo, and could devote my time to study both. I also asked for a settings GUI, because IMO, this is screening out a lot of people that would otherwise use Leo for non-programming related stuff. Something as simple as Notepad++ settings/preferences menu, just a simple tick menu, would make much more people remain in Leo. Even if you love the concept, clones, etc, if you must learn python and pyqt and Leo structures and Leo @node_id inheritance before you can edit that, you simply wont. I know someone will think "its not neccesary to know pyqt to change the background colors", but I have been there, and otherwise you dont really know what you are touching // how to edit that. Also, having to restart the app for every change to make effect makes everything much slower (for a newbie), all of this resulting in non programmers running away from Leo as fast as they can. Just a few comboboxes with option lists, + tickboxes for boolean values, would make a huge difference. If the need to restart Leo was removed, that would make things perfect. But then again, this is a dev time problem, so only thing I can do till I get some extra time to develop that myself, is to remain extremely grateful for Leo as is right now. On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 6:35 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor < leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 09:26:30 -0700 (PDT) > Chris George wrote: > > > "It's not ok to require that people use `git` to get it, > > that's unreasonable." > > > > Why? > > > > The primary target user for Leo is a programmer, is it not? > > No, although I can understand why someone might think that was the > case :-) > > Also, there are programmers (the docutils dev. team for example) who > are not interested in using git, and would probably regard needing to > use it to download and try a piece of software as a reason not to try > the software. > > > Perhaps > > once the development solidifies enough and begins targeting > > non-programmers (average user), then it might need a little dumbing > > down of the distribution method. > > > > I may be a bit on the edge as a user, I use a rolling distribution > > for my operating system so I am familiar with the model, but Leo is > > currently fluid, and as a user that is one of its strengths to me. > > Installing git and writing a script to pull down the latest Leo and > > start it was simple, and I can't see it being any more difficult on > > other platforms. I guess I see the use of git as a feature. :-) > > For a programmer. I think expecting people to unzip a zip is not > unreasonable, although it will screen out some people, but they were > probably not going to find Leo to their liking. Hence the problem with > the .zip reporting misleading version info. > > Cheers -Terry > > > Chris > > > > On Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:59:02 AM UTC-7, Terry wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:40:23 -0500 > > > "Edward K. Ream" > wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Dufriz > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > I am on Windows 8.1, running Python 3.3.5 with > > > > > PyQt4-4.10.4-gpl-Py3.3-Qt4.8.5-x64. > > > > > I am using Leo 4.11 final, build 6240. > > > > > > > > Thanks for this. This looks like ancient history, though I might > > > > be mistaken. Recent builds (from git) look like: > > > > > > > > Leo 4.11 final, build 6e21a6dc12f0 (branch: master), 2014-08-13 > > > > 08:30:03 > > > > > > That's a good point of course, my comments about needing "c, " > > > added in that call apply to the current trunk, not sure about that > > > version. > > > > > > Actually Houston, we have a problem. > > > > > > Leo uses the model "use the trunk, it's stable" - ok > > > > > > It's not ok to require that people use `git` to get it, that's > > > unreasonable. > > > > > > But no problem, they can use the snapshot, > > > https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/master.zip > > > > > > But... that identifies itself in the log window as > > > > > > Leo 4.11 final, build 6240, 2013-11-06 > > > Python 2.7.6, PyQt version 4.8.6 > > > > > > which is completely misleading. It does that because it falls back > > > on version.py or similar, I assume, when the .git directory's not > > > present. > > > > > > So, we need a git commit hook to update version.py on every commit. > > > > > > Or, not use git-hub for snapshots, but it seems git-hub is so close > > > to doing exactly what we need it's worth getting version reporting > > > in git-hub snapshots to work. > > > > > > (Summary - quite possibly Dufriz is using the latest code, can't > > > tell from the log pane content) > > > > > > Cheers -Terry > > > > > > > Could you pull down the latest git version? Alternatively, you > > > > could get a recent daily snapshot? That way we can all be > > > > discussing
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 09:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Chris George wrote: > "It's not ok to require that people use `git` to get it, > that's unreasonable." > > Why? > > The primary target user for Leo is a programmer, is it not? No, although I can understand why someone might think that was the case :-) Also, there are programmers (the docutils dev. team for example) who are not interested in using git, and would probably regard needing to use it to download and try a piece of software as a reason not to try the software. > Perhaps > once the development solidifies enough and begins targeting > non-programmers (average user), then it might need a little dumbing > down of the distribution method. > > I may be a bit on the edge as a user, I use a rolling distribution > for my operating system so I am familiar with the model, but Leo is > currently fluid, and as a user that is one of its strengths to me. > Installing git and writing a script to pull down the latest Leo and > start it was simple, and I can't see it being any more difficult on > other platforms. I guess I see the use of git as a feature. :-) For a programmer. I think expecting people to unzip a zip is not unreasonable, although it will screen out some people, but they were probably not going to find Leo to their liking. Hence the problem with the .zip reporting misleading version info. Cheers -Terry > Chris > > On Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:59:02 AM UTC-7, Terry wrote: > > > > On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:40:23 -0500 > > "Edward K. Ream" > wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Dufriz > > > > > wrote: > > > > I am on Windows 8.1, running Python 3.3.5 with > > > > PyQt4-4.10.4-gpl-Py3.3-Qt4.8.5-x64. > > > > I am using Leo 4.11 final, build 6240. > > > > > > Thanks for this. This looks like ancient history, though I might > > > be mistaken. Recent builds (from git) look like: > > > > > > Leo 4.11 final, build 6e21a6dc12f0 (branch: master), 2014-08-13 > > > 08:30:03 > > > > That's a good point of course, my comments about needing "c, " > > added in that call apply to the current trunk, not sure about that > > version. > > > > Actually Houston, we have a problem. > > > > Leo uses the model "use the trunk, it's stable" - ok > > > > It's not ok to require that people use `git` to get it, that's > > unreasonable. > > > > But no problem, they can use the snapshot, > > https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/master.zip > > > > But... that identifies itself in the log window as > > > > Leo 4.11 final, build 6240, 2013-11-06 > > Python 2.7.6, PyQt version 4.8.6 > > > > which is completely misleading. It does that because it falls back > > on version.py or similar, I assume, when the .git directory's not > > present. > > > > So, we need a git commit hook to update version.py on every commit. > > > > Or, not use git-hub for snapshots, but it seems git-hub is so close > > to doing exactly what we need it's worth getting version reporting > > in git-hub snapshots to work. > > > > (Summary - quite possibly Dufriz is using the latest code, can't > > tell from the log pane content) > > > > Cheers -Terry > > > > > Could you pull down the latest git version? Alternatively, you > > > could get a recent daily snapshot? That way we can all be > > > discussing recent code. If you use git you can instantly get any > > > improvements. > > > > > > Edward > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
"It's not ok to require that people use `git` to get it, that's unreasonable." Why? The primary target user for Leo is a programmer, is it not? Perhaps once the development solidifies enough and begins targeting non-programmers (average user), then it might need a little dumbing down of the distribution method. I may be a bit on the edge as a user, I use a rolling distribution for my operating system so I am familiar with the model, but Leo is currently fluid, and as a user that is one of its strengths to me. Installing git and writing a script to pull down the latest Leo and start it was simple, and I can't see it being any more difficult on other platforms. I guess I see the use of git as a feature. :-) Chris On Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:59:02 AM UTC-7, Terry wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:40:23 -0500 > "Edward K. Ream" > wrote: > > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Dufriz > > wrote: > > > I am on Windows 8.1, running Python 3.3.5 with > > > PyQt4-4.10.4-gpl-Py3.3-Qt4.8.5-x64. > > > I am using Leo 4.11 final, build 6240. > > > > Thanks for this. This looks like ancient history, though I might be > > mistaken. Recent builds (from git) look like: > > > > Leo 4.11 final, build 6e21a6dc12f0 (branch: master), 2014-08-13 > > 08:30:03 > > That's a good point of course, my comments about needing "c, " added in > that call apply to the current trunk, not sure about that version. > > Actually Houston, we have a problem. > > Leo uses the model "use the trunk, it's stable" - ok > > It's not ok to require that people use `git` to get it, that's > unreasonable. > > But no problem, they can use the snapshot, > https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/master.zip > > But... that identifies itself in the log window as > > Leo 4.11 final, build 6240, 2013-11-06 > Python 2.7.6, PyQt version 4.8.6 > > which is completely misleading. It does that because it falls back on > version.py or similar, I assume, when the .git directory's not present. > > So, we need a git commit hook to update version.py on every commit. > > Or, not use git-hub for snapshots, but it seems git-hub is so close to > doing exactly what we need it's worth getting version reporting in > git-hub snapshots to work. > > (Summary - quite possibly Dufriz is using the latest code, can't tell > from the log pane content) > > Cheers -Terry > > > Could you pull down the latest git version? Alternatively, you could > > get a recent daily snapshot? That way we can all be discussing recent > > code. If you use git you can instantly get any improvements. > > > > Edward > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:40:23 -0500 "Edward K. Ream" wrote: > On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Dufriz wrote: > > I am on Windows 8.1, running Python 3.3.5 with > > PyQt4-4.10.4-gpl-Py3.3-Qt4.8.5-x64. > > I am using Leo 4.11 final, build 6240. > > Thanks for this. This looks like ancient history, though I might be > mistaken. Recent builds (from git) look like: > > Leo 4.11 final, build 6e21a6dc12f0 (branch: master), 2014-08-13 > 08:30:03 That's a good point of course, my comments about needing "c, " added in that call apply to the current trunk, not sure about that version. Actually Houston, we have a problem. Leo uses the model "use the trunk, it's stable" - ok It's not ok to require that people use `git` to get it, that's unreasonable. But no problem, they can use the snapshot, https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/master.zip But... that identifies itself in the log window as Leo 4.11 final, build 6240, 2013-11-06 Python 2.7.6, PyQt version 4.8.6 which is completely misleading. It does that because it falls back on version.py or similar, I assume, when the .git directory's not present. So, we need a git commit hook to update version.py on every commit. Or, not use git-hub for snapshots, but it seems git-hub is so close to doing exactly what we need it's worth getting version reporting in git-hub snapshots to work. (Summary - quite possibly Dufriz is using the latest code, can't tell from the log pane content) Cheers -Terry > Could you pull down the latest git version? Alternatively, you could > get a recent daily snapshot? That way we can all be discussing recent > code. If you use git you can instantly get any improvements. > > Edward > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Dufriz wrote: > I am on Windows 8.1, running Python 3.3.5 with > PyQt4-4.10.4-gpl-Py3.3-Qt4.8.5-x64. > I am using Leo 4.11 final, build 6240. Thanks for this. This looks like ancient history, though I might be mistaken. Recent builds (from git) look like: Leo 4.11 final, build 6e21a6dc12f0 (branch: master), 2014-08-13 08:30:03 Could you pull down the latest git version? Alternatively, you could get a recent daily snapshot? That way we can all be discussing recent code. If you use git you can instantly get any improvements. Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Dufriz wrote: > BTW, the dark theme which I am trying to modify is the *last* node of > the myLeoSetting outline. So in addition to what I just said, it's important that (a) the dark theme subtree be a descendant of the @settings node in myLeoSettings, not a sibling, and (b) that there be no other `@data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet` node following the theme subtree, although you've probably got that covered by making it the last child of @settings. I'd delete / disable (@@data) an other `@data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet` nodes in @settings just to be sure. Cheers -Terry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 07:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Dufriz wrote: > I am on Windows 8.1, running Python 3.3.5 with > PyQt4-4.10.4-gpl-Py3.3-Qt4.8.5-x64. > I am using Leo 4.11 final, build 6240. > > I have partially obtained the color combination I was looking for, > simply by importing Terry's solarized theme which takes care of most > things. However, this is not to say that I have solved the > difficulties related to the UI configuration. I am still in the dark > as to how settings should be properly managed. It's really > infuriating, especially when you change a setting and for some reason > it does not take effect. > > For instance, based on Terry's dark (solarized) theme 0, which I am > trying to modify: > I am now trying to change the background color of the minibuffer's > edit line, to make it stand out from the surrounding background > color. So, I go to the node mini-buffer & status (under stylesheet & > source) and I edit the background-color parameter, setting it to > another color (drastically different, so I can easily see if the > change took place). Then I save and restart Leo, and the change did > not take effect! (despite having been saved correctly). Well, if you'd read the instructions, you'd have been able to get frustrated at a completely different step in the process :-} :-) The README node in the theme sub trees says: *IMPORTANT:* to change the stylesheet, edit the Leo tree under the `stylesheet & source` node below, not the `@data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet` node itself. Then select the `stylesheet & source` node and click the `run-script` button. This creates a new `@data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet` node and disables the old one by adding `@@data`. You got the first part, but not the second. Unfortunately, when you `run-script` on `stylesheet & source`, it calls g.expand_css_constants(nd.b) and this now needs to be changed to g.expand_css_constants(c, nd.b) specifically the code in `stylesheet & source` that reads # make the style active g.app.gui.frameFactory.masterFrame.setStyleSheet( g.expand_css_constants(nd.b)) needs to read # make the style active g.app.gui.frameFactory.masterFrame.setStyleSheet( g.expand_css_constants(c, nd.b)) With that change in place, clicking run-script or hitting Ctrl-B with the `stylesheet & source` node active should immediately *compile* and apply your new settings. Sorry about all the frustration, and to be fair with it being broken by the missing "c," thing, maybe you had followed this procedure at one point and understandably thought it didn't work, on account of it not working :-/ > I am wondering: is there any other setting which overrides this?!? > This is a common problem in Leo settings, from what I understand (as > I encountered it in other settings). The user is likely to mad if he > has to check and counter-check all these cross-referenced settings! > > Anyway, these are just some the difficulties I am encountering in > changing the settings. > I believe a radical restucturing of the way settings are handled, or > at least presented to the end-user, is really called for here. I think everyone's in complete agreement with the latter view, the way this stuff is presented to the user needs changing and there's a blueprint for what it should look like, it's just a matter of dev. time. There are so many things to develop on Leo, not necessarily deficiencies, that it's hard to know what to pick and I suspect whatever's top of mind and most interesting seeming gets picked, but I'll try and get the user interface to UI config. revamp rolling as my first priority for Leo dev. time. Cheers -Terry > There is no point in Leo being totally configurable if the user > cannot manage to change even the simplest settings like the UI colors! > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
BTW, the dark theme which I am trying to modify is the *last* node of the myLeoSetting outline. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
I am on Windows 8.1, running Python 3.3.5 with PyQt4-4.10.4-gpl-Py3.3-Qt4.8.5-x64. I am using Leo 4.11 final, build 6240. I have partially obtained the color combination I was looking for, simply by importing Terry's solarized theme which takes care of most things. However, this is not to say that I have solved the difficulties related to the UI configuration. I am still in the dark as to how settings should be properly managed. It's really infuriating, especially when you change a setting and for some reason it does not take effect. For instance, based on Terry's dark (solarized) theme 0, which I am trying to modify: I am now trying to change the background color of the minibuffer's edit line, to make it stand out from the surrounding background color. So, I go to the node mini-buffer & status (under stylesheet & source) and I edit the background-color parameter, setting it to another color (drastically different, so I can easily see if the change took place). Then I save and restart Leo, and the change did not take effect! (despite having been saved correctly). I am wondering: is there any other setting which overrides this?!? This is a common problem in Leo settings, from what I understand (as I encountered it in other settings). The user is likely to mad if he has to check and counter-check all these cross-referenced settings! Anyway, these are just some the difficulties I am encountering in changing the settings. I believe a radical restucturing of the way settings are handled, or at least presented to the end-user, is really called for here. There is no point in Leo being totally configurable if the user cannot manage to change even the simplest settings like the UI colors! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Help! Messing with UI settings.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Dufriz wrote: > Leo's convoluted settings system is really trying my patience. I'm sorry you are having problems. I can relate :-) First, what version of Leo are you using, and what platform are you on? Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
