Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Dr.Khalid]

At least the guys at Apple were honest and mentioned that some 3rd programs 
wouldn't work. I believe this is a bold statement to say. Hats off to 
Apple. Most companies that sells VI products will usually boast about how 
great the product is and that it's the best in the market. The name of the 
game is honesty and not greed... Nothing can be great from the first 
attempt; however, some are creative when it comes to improving their 
products, and some like to make dramatic announcement with marginal 
improvement.. Apple doesn't belong to the latter.

Cheers,
Khalid who is not a Mac user :)




  - Original Message - 
  From: Larry Wanger
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:24 PM
  Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone



  To throw some more fuel on this discussion, Apple tends to be a
  company that plans ahead and has a road map in terms of where it is
  going. Wouldn't you think that they knew that over time they
  anticipated adding voice over to the iPhone? And, we know that VO was
  on the Mac for a few years previous to it going to the iPhone. It
  would seem that as they helped developers design applications that
  they have been giving them the tools to make them accessible? So, what
  I'm really saying is that yesterday might not have been the first time
  that developers heard about VO on the iPhone. Or, its possible that
  they've just been developing applications following design
  specifications from Apple that will enable us to have good access to a
  lot of the applications. Not sure, just thinking. I'm thinking that
  games and some of the other very graphical applications won't work for
  us but many are very text rich and that could work. Also, I know there
  is a Kendle application and I wonder if we can get access to those
  books?




  On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:03 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:

  >
  > I might be wrong, but Mac OS X has been around for quite a long time
  > now, and it is possible to create Mac compatible apps without using
  > the Cocoa framework. This is were I might really be wrong, but from
  > what I heard yesterday from the WWDC keynote, and from what I've read,
  > developers who make iPhone apps can only use a series of tools
  > provided by Apple, with some 1000 API's, to create their software. So
  > in such a restricted environment (that is, if I'm still not really
  > wrong) shouldn't most apps just work with VO?
  >
  > Ignasi
  > On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
  >
  >>
  >>
  >> On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
  >>
  >>>
  >>> HI,
  >>>
  >>> YOU ARE MISSING THE FEATURE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO FIX APPLICATIONS THAT
  >>> ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE.
  >>
  >> ...Which I only saw mention of in the OS X section, not in the iPhone
  >> section. Not to say it won't be possible. And this feature likely
  >> won't fix apps that simply expose nothing (or very little) to VO in
  >> the first place.
  >>
  >> All that said, my understanding is that iPhone apps, like most modern
  >> OS X apps, use a common set of development tools and standard
  >> controls. This should mean that most will be at least somewhat
  >> accessible from the start. No?
  >>
  >>
  >>>
  >
  >
  > >


  
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Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor

[Mark Baxter]

This is typical NFB.  Prey on an already oppressed popularion with  
scare tactics about what *COULD* go wrong and how helpless they'd be  
unless trhey do things the NFB way.  It's why I have very little to do  
with organized groups of blind people.  Don't feel bad; I also scoff  
at organized religion in favor of individual spirituality, and hate  
Christmas because of shopping mobs and humans in packs.  Don't beieve  
what the NFB tells you; they're just anothe organization with another  
marketing angle.


Mark BurningHawk

Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
My home page:
http://MarkBurningHawk.net/


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Re: Moving Files from PC to Mac

[Mark Baxter]

Wish I'd seen that before I moved everything by hand over my network...


Mark BurningHawk

Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
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Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor

[Michael Reiser]

I agree with everything said.  Mac popularity has grown despite access  
world which buy the way did write a very nice review of lepard last  
September.  I don't think blind people will just go buy that as a  
facter.  I really think the younger blind crowd will embrace mac more  
and the older ones will follow after.  As for me I love my mac and  
will not go back to windows.

Mike
On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:08 PM, James Dietz wrote:

>
> Really? I know FS is one of the key sponsers of the convention, but
> does that really mean they have an agenda? I can almost believe it, as
> like I said it really wasn't so much a debate of pros and cons as it
> was a list of cons. I don't want to help escolate this into a flame
> war, but I am curious to know if what people have said about blindness
> organizations and blind-specific tech and other companies is really
> true. In a perfect world they'd just want what would be best for the
> blind user, and I don't see how anyone could argue with mainstream
> screenreading action. If it's not a quality product or hasn't matured
> much (like Microsoft's narrator) then a complaint is justified.
>
> On 6/9/09, Michael Reiser  wrote:
>>
>> They have FS and other companies in there pockets, so they have to
>> discredit someone else.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:54 PM, James Dietz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Nearly everything they point out is negative. It's almost as if
>>> they're deliberately skipping over what the screenreader does well  
>>> so
>>> that they can get right to the bad stuff.  My favorite has to be the
>>> section where they discuss using voiceover with the internet - while
>>> there are some legitimate problems with group mode and ajax pages
>>> (which I would've agreed with if they'd been mentioned), it does
>>> present info in a logical form to me anyway. That's subjective, but
>>> they they go on to say that commands to move between different
>>> elements of a page were not readily apparent and had to be learned.
>>> Commands need to be learned for every program, including JAWS and
>>> Window-Eyes. Yeesh! They also mentioned the fact that vo+arrowing
>>> through elements was tedius. This is tricky, but that's pretty much
>>> how JFW handles it - with the exception that you can pgdn through a
>>> page to skip bigger chunks. They didn't mention that, so not sure if
>>> they're being entirely fair. The article raised some good points -
>>> training would help explain things like the infamous double-sided
>>> cursor (which they didn't quite realize existed - for the record VO
>>> was not mis-speaking characters) and use of the mac itself in
>>> combination with voiceover.  Once Apple can sell a mac to blind  
>>> users
>>> with some vo-specific training, they might be able to tap into the
>>> market a little better. Of course it's doubtful they will actually  
>>> do
>>> this - blind services buy computers and software for working blind
>>> people. That means Microsoft Windows and JAWS (or window-eyes I  
>>> guess)
>>> because that's what workplaces use. Apple seems to have accepted and
>>> embraced it's market position as the cool slick do-it-all magic box
>>> for home users.
>>>
>>> On 6/9/09, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
 The biggest problem with this article I think is that they are
 comparing
 voice over too much to windows screen readers. While I like to
 compare some
 things about the mac to elements in windows such as the finder to
 explorer,
 and the doc to the windows task bar and quick launch, they did this
 review
 with way too much expectation for voice over and the mac to behave
 like
 windows.
 - Original Message -
 From: Michael Reiser
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:40 PM
 Subject: mac voiceover in braille monitor


 Just thought I'd share this with everyone.  The nfb featured vo in
 the
 june 2009 issue of the braille monitor.  While I agree with some of
 the
 concerns here, I disaggree with quite a few especially that vo
 should just
 read everything automatically.  Ironic that many of the concerns
 put forth
 will be addressed in snow lepard.  Would love toÎ hear everyone
 else's take
 on this.


 I'll paste the article here for easy reading.  Braille Monitor
  June 2009
 (back) (contents) (next)

 Report on the Ease of Access of the Apple OS 10.5 Leopard
 Environment with
 VoiceOver
 by Wesley Majerus

 From the Editor: Almost as long as computers have dominated the
 lives of
 many Americans, some people have praised the Apple products with a
 fervor
 verging on the religious. The operating system has always been more
 visually
 intuitive than that of the PC, and manipulating graphics on Apple
 products
 is apparently both easy and satisfying. But since the Apple IIe in
 the 

Re: Apple is shrugging off Responsibility for Accessibility

[Justin Harford]

The subject line here is complete nonsense.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:11 PM, Brent Harding wrote:

>
> Hmmm, I don't think this is necessarily the case. What I'd say it is  
> is that
> it is their terminology for a graphics labeler so that we can label  
> things
> we find in apps that haven't been fixed yet. Without that, we'd just  
> have to
> live with the unknown unlabeled buttons that are around now and then.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Alex Jurgensen" 
> To: "MacVisionaries" 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:45 PM
> Subject: Apple is shrugging off Responsibility for Accessibility
>
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Did you guys see the feature to add descriptions to elements. It
>> sounds a lot like FS's JAWS Scripts, don't you think.
>>
>> I think we should bprevent this from happening before it gets out of
>> hand. Too many developers will take that as the easy way out.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex,
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Chris Blouch]

ATT is the exclusive carrier for the USA so VZ can only dream about 
offering the iPhone. Maybe VZ gave Apple the brush off when they had 
their chance at it. I know VZ in the past has been anti-mac so why would 
that change now?

CB

Scott Howell wrote:
> Well what I really hope is that Verizon Wireless will pickup the  
> iPhone and instead of CDMA support, the newer standard VZW is going  
> with will be supported, which will be like GSM, but even better. Like  
> having the benefits of GSM and CDMA combined and hopped up a few  
> notches. As far as iTunes and the iPod, well sorry you have so much  
> trouble. I myself have been using a Nano and I've had very good  
> success with it. Matter of fact I've run it down on many occasions and  
> just plugging it back in has been enough to charge it without loosing  
> any content etc.
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:19 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi guys,  I have to admit, when I read this, the sweat started pouring
>> and the hart started thumping.  It was better than my third cup of
>> coffee in the morning which I'm still looking forward to with some
>> anticipation, smiles.  Speaking of which, one sec while I go pour the
>> second one...
>>
>> OK, So here's why I won't be tossing my mobile speak pocket licence in
>> the trash any time soon.
>>
>> First, I'm a scronnie, crabbie, and none too good-looking blind man.
>> An IPhone won't get me more girls, put 10 pounds of muscle on me in
>> exactly the right preportions, or make me a nicer person.  So forget
>> it for the time being at least.
>>
>> So far, we have no braille display support.  I haven't read anything
>> about a fully featured gps solution for the IPhone which I have to
>> have, or a brf reader which I don't have to have, but will use on
>> ocasion.  So it's really exciting to see the support coming along.
>> I'd love to fly down to the apple store and play with one for half an
>> hour.  But I really use braille on my phone, and I really use a gps
>> system, and I won't be replacing my current set up until these
>> features are tested and true.
>>
>> So forgetting all the software you don't get, look at what you do
>> get...  ITunes.  You need ITunes to sync your calendar and
>> contacts?  ...seriously?  What happened to ISync?  Forget it.  I can't
>> wait to get rid of my IPod, because the software I tried to replace
>> ITunes for syncing my music doesn't work and I'm sick of the whole
>> mess.  Why would I want to buy another device that forces me to ITunes
>> to sync my calendar and contacts?  No thank you.  ITunes is getting
>> the old command option delete as soon as this IPod is gone.  Not that
>> I have anything against the IPod. It's a beautiful machine.  My only
>> problems with it are that it dumps my library every time the battery
>> dies, and ITunes crashes whenever it tries to sync.  Oh, and ITunes
>> doesn't update my library properly, and it won't let me change the
>> settings for ripping/encoding cd's, and it corupts my library every
>> three months or so and makes me start all over again, and it fills my
>> screen with all kinds of clutter I don't need, and Oh yeh, I generally
>> hate being forced into using software that I don't like...  Fwew!
>>
>> So basicly I'll wait till I can have the functionality that I have on
>> my I-Paq, especially gps navigation, braille support, and copy and
>> paste file transfers.
>>
>> Another thing the IPhone didn't have previously which I hope they've
>> fixed now is cdma support. It's got to have cdma support to be really
>> viable here where CDMA is king.  I'm using gsm, and would be more ore
>> less happy with it if my carrier didn't lie to me, price gouge me, and
>> go behind my back at every turn.  I am counting down the days left on
>> my contract so I can cut my rediculous sell phone bill.  There are way
>> more CDMA carriers here than gsm though, in fact there are only two
>> gsm carriers here and they are both owned by the same company which is
>> universally hated here.  It's not just me this time.  So, we have to
>> have cdma support if we want to make the IPhone attractive to the %75
>> of us who don't use a gsm carrier here in ontario, and probably the
>> rest of canada as well.  Right now, the only supported platform that
>> runs on CDMA unless the new IPhone comes with CDMA support is windows
>> mobile and mobile speak pocket/smartphone.  So that's what technology
>> companies here are going to keep selling.  When orator and the
>> blackberry support comes it's going to be CDMA supported as well, and
>> so we might go with that for people who don't want advanced screen
>> reader features.
>>
>> It is nice to see the stride finally taken in this area though.  Apple
>> accessibility is making finominal products, but the detracters will
>> never stop complaining that this that or the other device isn't
>> accessible, so Apple must be falling behind on it's committments or
>> they aren't really serious.  It's not for me, but I b

Re: Macbook numpad

[Justin Harford]

Not sure if it has but you should send a message about this to apple.   
Ask them and let them know that you would like it back.  That is how  
things get moving, when customers tell the provider what they want.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:28 PM, E.J. Zufelt wrote:

>
> Good evening,
>
> Does anyone know if the virtual numpad has returned to the new
> generation Macbook keyboards?
>
> Thanks,
> Everett
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
> View my LinkedIn Profile
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Justin Harford]

It is actually very clear.  Just google it and you will find that the  
ATT Apple contract expires in 2010.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Larry Wanger wrote:

>
> Scott,
>
> In a couple of previous messages you've said that the iPhone will be
> on the Verizon network. I'm not sure about the validity of what you
> are saying. Apple and at&t have an exclusive contract. The length of
> this contract isn't really clear and, in light of some things said
> yesterday, I am thinking that Apple might look to make some changes at
> the end of the deal. But, its very well known that these two companies
> have an exclusive deal in the United States.
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Scott Howell wrote:
>
>>
>> It does work, will work, and blind people will have no problems using
>> the iPhone. I know for fact this is the case and I have gotten
>> Confirmation from a source. Point is, like anything, there may be a
>> learning curve, but it will work and it will be up to you to  
>> determine
>> if it fits your needs.
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Dan Eickmeier]

Actually i've done this successfully, by hijacking system audio,  
hijacking my mic, and going back to the system audio session, and  
hitting record on that.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Brent Harding wrote:

>
> What, there's a feature in OSX to run an app I download through to  
> fix most
> of the accessibility issues? I wish that effects panel in Audio  
> Hijack Pro
> could be fixed so I could record podcasts using both the mic and VO  
> without
> having to resort to time compression/expansion to make both files  
> the same
> length and then mix it down into one later.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Buddy Brannan" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> HI,
>>>
>>> YOU ARE MISSING THE FEATURE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO FIX APPLICATIONS THAT
>>> ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE.
>>
>> ...Which I only saw mention of in the OS X section, not in the iPhone
>> section. Not to say it won't be possible. And this feature likely
>> won't fix apps that simply expose nothing (or very little) to VO in
>> the first place.
>>
>> All that said, my understanding is that iPhone apps, like most modern
>> OS X apps, use a common set of development tools and standard
>> controls. This should mean that most will be at least somewhat
>> accessible from the start. No?
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Chris Blouch]

I believe this was due to the 2 year contract that would have to be 
broken. There has been some discussion about this in other forums. So if 
you've got most of a two year contract on your current phone and want to 
break it to get an iPhone it's going to cost you. This is probably an 
AT&T thing (in the states) rather than an Apple thing.

CB

Larry Wanger wrote:
> I've been looking in to whether or not VO and some of the newer 
> features of software version 3.0 will run on the older iPhones. It 
> sounds like the hardware between the new iPhone and the iPhone 3G 
> aren't that different. However, I can't tell for sure about iPhones 
> older than that.  My wife has the model that came out just before the 
> 3G did and it looks like she's upgrading so I may try to use her older 
> phone. Not sure if that will work.
>
> What I have found out is that the new iPhone is not priced as neatly 
> as they claim it is. Those under more recent contracts with At&T will 
> need to pay much more for the new phone.
>
> So, for example, my wife and I have 2 year contracts. I priced out the 
> new iPhone if I purchase one on my line and its $499 for the 32GB 
> model. Meanwhile, my wife got her iPhone in April of last year and can 
> get an upgrade price of $299 for the new phone. I don't understand 
> this arrangement because I don't even have an iPhone and I purchased 
> my Samsung Blackjack II 2 months before she got her iPhone.
>
> In any case, the software comes out on the 17th and we'll see what I 
> can do with it.
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think it will be.
>>
>> They will be upgradable for $10 for all the firmware. Unfortunately 
>> they did add CPU power, ... So who knows about VO running on the 
>> older phones.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex,
>>
>>
>> On 8-Jun-09, at 8:07 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I'm guessing it will be...I mean wouldn't it be part of the 
>>> OS? We'll have to wait and see...
>>> On Jun 8, 2009, at 9:52 PM, Larry Wanger wrote:
>>>
 The iPhone 3.0 software update will be available on June 17 from 
 what I heard. I don't know though if voice over will be included in 
 that. 
 On Jun 8, 2009, at 5:11 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:

> Oh, and now that I think about it, does anyone know if existing 
> iPod touch or iPhones can be upgraded to the new system? They all 
> have the necessary touch screen, so hypothetically VO should be 
> able to work on them, unless Apple added a lot of processing power 
> and memory to the new iPhones, which makes accessibility viable...
>
> Ignasi
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 7:28 PM, glenn wrote:
>
>> Hello
>> Does anyone know of any demonstration videos showing the addition 
>> of Voiceover?
>> Any word whether Voiceover will be available for the ipod touch?
>>  
>> Glenn
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Josh de Lioncourt 
>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> 
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 08, 2009 6:54 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>>
>>
>> I'm still kind of in shock. This is beyond fantastic news.
>> I'll have to get me an iPhone as soon as I
>> possibly can. This is just tremendous.
>>
>> The description of how it works sounds very inuitive. I
>> absoltuely cannot wait.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh de Lioncourt
>> …my other mail provider is an owl…
>>
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
>> Music: http://stage19music.com
>> Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
>> Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
>> GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Read.
>>> http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >

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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Chris Blouch]

As I had mentioned in the past, the non-S model of iPhone didn't have 
enough power to do real text to speech so I was kinda hoping we'd have 
VO with the newly released model. That also means we won't have this 
migrating to iPods and such anytime soon. Hope it works well in the real 
world.

CB

Josh de Lioncourt wrote:
>
> I'm still kind of in shock. This is beyond fantastic news. I'll have 
> to get me an iPhone as soon as I possibly can. This is just tremendous.
>
> The description of how it works sounds very inuitive. I absoltuely 
> cannot wait.
>
>
>
> Josh de Lioncourt
> …my other mail provider is an owl…
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
> Music: http://stage19music.com
> Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
> Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
> GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt
>
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>
>>
>> Read.
>> http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >

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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Buddy Brannan]

On Jun 10, 2009, at 12:02 AM, Brent Harding wrote:

>
> Ah, so that means that we will probably not see something useful for  
> the
> blind unless we could accessibly jailbreak and keep VO in tact.

What?! Which part of "All apps that ship with the phone will work with  
Voiceover" was unclear?


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Re: Apple is shrugging off Responsibility for Accessibility

[Buddy Brannan]

On Jun 9, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Did you guys see the feature to add descriptions to elements. It
> sounds a lot like FS's JAWS Scripts, don't you think.

No, I don't think. It sounds more like the labeling functions  
available in most screen readers for the past 15 years.

> I think we should bprevent this from happening before it gets out of
> hand. Too many developers will take that as the easy way out.

And you'd rather have no way to label unlabeled controls and have the  
developers continue to not label them (thus continuing a situation  
with no improvement)? No thanks. While in an ideal world I'd love for  
all developers to always properly label all controls, my pragmatic  
side knows that this will *never* happen. Never. You will not ever  
have 100% compliance. That being the case, I'll take the ability to  
easily label improperly tagged controls, thank you very much.

I'm not sure what your experience with Apple software developers has  
been, but it seems to me that a reasonable percentage are willing to  
work on improving accessibility, when it's brought to their attention  
and as their development cycle allows. Not necessarily so true  
elsewhere. I sincerely doubt that having the ability to label things  
with sighted help or with foreknowledge of the control will make a  
significant number of developers shrug that responsibility off;  
certainly not significantly more than wouldn't bother in the first  
place.


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More iPhone: This Is exciting

[Buddy Brannan]

I'm listening to the WWDC keynote now, and I just heard something  
exciting.

It says that Apple is allowing developers (plural, he said  
"developers", which could mean more than just Tomtom) to build apps  
with turn by turn directions, built on the maps application.

If I understand this correctly, maps uses GPS in conjunction with  
Google Maps.

This being the case, and since Google Maps does give textual routes,  
it sounds to me as though some clever person could, indeed, build a  
talking navigation application for the iPhone.

This of course doesn't negate my main beef with such systems (like  
Wayfinder Access, for instance): their reliance on a wireless (i.e.  
cellular) connection. However, since we have to have the data plan  
anyway, I reckon I could live with it. If, that is, there were a  
provision to have it download big pieces of map and use those when  
cell coverage isn't available.

Just thinking aloud here, but this could be potentially even *more*  
groundbreaking. Especially if the app can be made inexpensively.  
Remember, there shouldn't be any licensing of proprietary third party  
stuff here, since there's a screen reader built in for the app to talk  
to, and we're using Google Maps here, not some other database that  
would require licensing. Anyone who actually has a clue about these  
things wanna chime in? How 'bout it Janey? :)
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 746-4127 or 888-75-BUDDY


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Re: My iPhone

[Maxwell Ivey Jr.]

Its a great time for people needing speech.  We have the iphone with  
voiceover and later this summer we have research in motion coming out  
with a blackberry that talks.  And the research seams to be coming  
along for having speech on the gooogle phones by the end of the year.   
Lots of great stuff going on.  Let me know how well the iphone  
actually works.  I'm one of those people that likes to wait and watch  
or listen to other people go first. lol  Take care, Max
On Jun 9, 2009, at 11:40 PM, Jenny Kennedy wrote:

>
> Hi, I totally am with ya there. The only bad thing is they don't have
> the iPhone on Tmobile and I'm not sure I can switch to ATT.  I hope
> that perhaps they can get the iPhone to work with Tmobile.  At any
> rate I was so thrilled. The possibility is endless now. Just think.
> Maybe they can come out with an app that lets you use the camera to
> take a picture of a document and it can then read it to you, like the
> knfb reader but not so much money? Or a speaking GPS program.  Or a
> color ID or money ID  It is just thrilling and I can't wait to see how
> this happens, how this turns out.
>
> On 6/9/09, Alex Jurgensen  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I can't believe it. My first day back on the job as an accessibility
>> consultant after nearly a year is next Wednsday, the same day the
>> iPhone firmware is released. I work in an environment where just  
>> about
>> every employee has an iPhone, so I am sure I'll be able to borrow one
>> of my fellow workers to try the new Voiceoverl. I don't have one
>> because I am part-time so they don't give me one.
>>
>> I'll write about my findings. I am so excited.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex,
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>
> >


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Re: My iPhone

[Jenny Kennedy]

Hi, I totally am with ya there. The only bad thing is they don't have
the iPhone on Tmobile and I'm not sure I can switch to ATT.  I hope
that perhaps they can get the iPhone to work with Tmobile.  At any
rate I was so thrilled. The possibility is endless now. Just think.
Maybe they can come out with an app that lets you use the camera to
take a picture of a document and it can then read it to you, like the
knfb reader but not so much money? Or a speaking GPS program.  Or a
color ID or money ID  It is just thrilling and I can't wait to see how
this happens, how this turns out.

On 6/9/09, Alex Jurgensen  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I can't believe it. My first day back on the job as an accessibility
> consultant after nearly a year is next Wednsday, the same day the
> iPhone firmware is released. I work in an environment where just about
> every employee has an iPhone, so I am sure I'll be able to borrow one
> of my fellow workers to try the new Voiceoverl. I don't have one
> because I am part-time so they don't give me one.
>
> I'll write about my findings. I am so excited.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
>
> >
>

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Re: Voiceover on iPhone demo was Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[James Dietz]

Sounds to me like an improved version of Agness. I'm guessing the
voice shown in the guided tour during the voice control section is the
same used for VO feedback.

James

On 6/9/09, Alex Jurgensen  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Yep. Sure is..
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
> On 9-Jun-09, at 8:42 PM, Jessi and Goldina wrote:
>
>>
>> where did you see the demo? are you talking about the IPhone guided
>> tour on the apple site? I don't think that would be the voice, but
>> maybe.
>> On 9-Jun-09, at 8:38 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The voice on the phone is Victoria because of her great workings with
>>> low RAM systems. She is the English US Candidate it seems.
>>>
>>> I saw this in a demo.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Alex,
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>> >
>
>
> >
>

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Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor

[Jenny Kennedy]

I didn't like this article for the most part. I didn't think it was
quite fair. In fact I thought it was pretty negitive.  One thing I
tell other blind people about Mac and VoiceOver is to keep firm in
their mind it is not Windows and JAWS or WindowEyes. Compairing Apples
and Microsofts is like compairing Apples and Orenges. They're both
fruite. They'll provide you with food, but past that...

I have been using my MacBook for about 15 months now and love it! I
didn't think VO had any more key commands than JAWS. One of the VO
keys shorted out on my Mac Sunday so I went out and bought a wireless
windows keyboard. The only problem I've found is that the option and
command keys have switched places on the wireless. Other than that
it's been fine.  I just found the numpad commander and totally love
it!  I have keys programed to do all the arrow functions plus a key to
bring up the vo interface so I can change between DOM and Group nav.
in web settings, I've got keys set to interact and stop interacting
with things, a preform function key and several others. I do not
remember having this freedom in JAWS.  If they had it you had to be
massively techy minded, or more techy minded than I was.  I have found
the MacBook and Leopard and voice over to be the most enjoyable and
accessable computer/OS/Screen access package ever!  I also got one of
the new speaking iPod Nanos for Valentine's day. I love that product
too! It isn't perfect but it is better than what I had, way better.  I
am looking forward to the new OS in September. Which brings up another
point.  Normally I'd hate it when Windows would upgrade because that
meant I'd have to stick with the same old windows while my sighted
pals got all the newest bells and wistles. I couldn't afford a new
version of windows plus an upgrade of JAWS...  With this new
SnowLeopard, I don't have to fret if the screen reader is going to
function. I may not be able to use stuff like Spaces, but that is one
bell I can do without. Also it is only going to cost me $29. I thought
I had missheard but no. for just under $30 I am going to have the
newest OS plus a screen reader plus a screen enlarger. Now you tell me
in Windows where I can get the same amount of accessability and an OS
for $30.  It just isn't done. Well maybe now people are making free
screen readers it isn't so bad but still.  Even the $129 off the shelf
non-upgrade price is way better.

I love the ease I have for the mostpart with iTunes. People may
complain on the windows side that iTunes doesn't work very well. Well
it's an Apple program and I've heard it can work. They even point out
WindowEyes right there on the Apple website. Don't know what JAWS
users are meant to do. But iTunes on the Mac is perhaps the best media
player next to the iPod I've used.

Also I'm excited about the iPhone. I see a lot of possibilities if aps
for OCR and speaking GPS are made. Also ebook reading. There is just
so much possibility and I fear that people will look at the Monitor
Article or AccessWorld or whatever and think they have no other
choice. I'd rather my money go to support Apple who has shown time and
time again they're not just making access for their products just to
look good. It seams they really are commited...

-Jenny
blueskyes9112...@gmail.com
Olathe, Kansas USA

On 6/9/09, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>
> They also did not mention the numpad commander, which makes navigation
> 10 times easier. Granted, you can't do that on a laptop, but when
> using a desktop keyboard, it's a great help.
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:54 PM, James Dietz wrote:
>
>>
>> Nearly everything they point out is negative. It's almost as if
>> they're deliberately skipping over what the screenreader does well so
>> that they can get right to the bad stuff.  My favorite has to be the
>> section where they discuss using voiceover with the internet - while
>> there are some legitimate problems with group mode and ajax pages
>> (which I would've agreed with if they'd been mentioned), it does
>> present info in a logical form to me anyway. That's subjective, but
>> they they go on to say that commands to move between different
>> elements of a page were not readily apparent and had to be learned.
>> Commands need to be learned for every program, including JAWS and
>> Window-Eyes. Yeesh! They also mentioned the fact that vo+arrowing
>> through elements was tedius. This is tricky, but that's pretty much
>> how JFW handles it - with the exception that you can pgdn through a
>> page to skip bigger chunks. They didn't mention that, so not sure if
>> they're being entirely fair. The article raised some good points -
>> training would help explain things like the infamous double-sided
>> cursor (which they didn't quite realize existed - for the record VO
>> was not mis-speaking characters) and use of the mac itself in
>> combination with voiceover.  Once Apple can sell a mac to blind users
>> with some vo-specific training, they might be able to tap into the
>> market a l

Re: Apple is shrugging off Responsibility for Accessibility

[Brent Harding]

Hmmm, I don't think this is necessarily the case. What I'd say it is is that 
it is their terminology for a graphics labeler so that we can label things 
we find in apps that haven't been fixed yet. Without that, we'd just have to 
live with the unknown unlabeled buttons that are around now and then.

- Original Message - 
From: "Alex Jurgensen" 
To: "MacVisionaries" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:45 PM
Subject: Apple is shrugging off Responsibility for Accessibility


>
> Hi,
>
> Did you guys see the feature to add descriptions to elements. It
> sounds a lot like FS's JAWS Scripts, don't you think.
>
> I think we should bprevent this from happening before it gets out of
> hand. Too many developers will take that as the easy way out.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
>
> >
> 


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Brent Harding]

Ah, so that means that we will probably not see something useful for the 
blind unless we could accessibly jailbreak and keep VO in tact.

- Original Message - 
From: "Alex Jurgensen" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


>
> Hi,
>
> The criteria is that TomTom wants exclusive rights to Turn by Turn
> directions.
>
> So they have them.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
> On 9-Jun-09, at 4:44 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Brent Harding wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I thought I heard that GPS like we need will never be a possibility
>>> with the
>>> maps program it comes with. I thought Apple is contractually
>>> obligated to
>>> stop short of turn by turn directions and not approve apps that do
>>> it.
>>
>> Dunno where you heard that, but they introduced just such a beast from
>> Tomtom at WWDC.
>>
>>
>> >
>
>
> >
> 


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Re: Apple is shrugging off Responsibility for Accessibility

[Maurice Mines]

stop it at lest it is giving access to the apps on the iphone that we  
did't have befor I don't care how it happends I am just apploding it.  
please stop the winning over a good thing. or are you never stesfied.  
ie need to have somthing to winn about. hmm Maurice.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:45 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Did you guys see the feature to add descriptions to elements. It
> sounds a lot like FS's JAWS Scripts, don't you think.
>
> I think we should bprevent this from happening before it gets out of
> hand. Too many developers will take that as the easy way out.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
>
> >


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Apple is shrugging off Responsibility for Accessibility

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

Did you guys see the feature to add descriptions to elements. It  
sounds a lot like FS's JAWS Scripts, don't you think.

I think we should bprevent this from happening before it gets out of  
hand. Too many developers will take that as the easy way out.

Regards,
Alex,



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Re: Voiceover on iPhone demo was Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

Yep. Sure is..

Regards,
Alex,


On 9-Jun-09, at 8:42 PM, Jessi and Goldina wrote:

>
> where did you see the demo? are you talking about the IPhone guided
> tour on the apple site? I don't think that would be the voice, but
> maybe.
> On 9-Jun-09, at 8:38 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The voice on the phone is Victoria because of her great workings with
>> low RAM systems. She is the English US Candidate it seems.
>>
>> I saw this in a demo.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex,
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: Voiceover on iPhone demo was Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Jessi and Goldina]

where did you see the demo? are you talking about the IPhone guided  
tour on the apple site? I don't think that would be the voice, but  
maybe.
On 9-Jun-09, at 8:38 PM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> The voice on the phone is Victoria because of her great workings with
> low RAM systems. She is the English US Candidate it seems.
>
> I saw this in a demo.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
>
> >


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Re: assistive tech store marketing mac

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

I paid a hundred or so more for my Macbook because my LAN tech ordered  
it with twice the RAM and I am sure glad he did.

Maybe this is it.

Regards,
Alex,


On 9-Jun-09, at 10:54 AM, Justin Harford wrote:

>
> I find this both Scandalous that they would make blind people pay them
> to "customize" an imac, and flattering that they would consider
> marketing an imac at all.
>
> http://www.rla.com/
>
> Cl
>
> >


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Voiceover on iPhone demo was Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

The voice on the phone is Victoria because of her great workings with  
low RAM systems. She is the English US Candidate it seems.

I saw this in a demo.

Regards,
Alex,



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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

The criteria is that TomTom wants exclusive rights to Turn by Turn  
directions.

So they have them.

Regards,
Alex,


On 9-Jun-09, at 4:44 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Brent Harding wrote:
>
>>
>> I thought I heard that GPS like we need will never be a possibility
>> with the
>> maps program it comes with. I thought Apple is contractually
>> obligated to
>> stop short of turn by turn directions and not approve apps that do  
>> it.
>
> Dunno where you heard that, but they introduced just such a beast from
> Tomtom at WWDC.
>
>
> >


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RE: voice over comes to the I phone

[peter Apgar]

I will have one the nineteenth no matter the carrier.

Pete 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Reiser
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:56 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


They probably won't say anything right now but good sources from there have
said they would carry it.  We'll just have to see what happens.

Mike
On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:44 PM, peter Apgar wrote:

>
> Sorry all to be the barer of bad news,  I just hung up with VZ sales.  
> Per my discussion VZ will not be carrying  the I phone.  ATT is still 
> the only company.
>
> Pete
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Wanger
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:29 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
>
> Scott,
>
> In a couple of previous messages you've said that the iPhone will be 
> on the Verizon network. I'm not sure about the validity of what you 
> are saying.
> Apple and at&t have an exclusive contract. The length of this contract 
> isn't really clear and, in light of some things said yesterday, I am 
> thinking that Apple might look to make some changes at the end of the 
> deal. But, its very well known that these two companies have an 
> exclusive deal in the United States.
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Scott Howell wrote:
>
>>
>> It does work, will work, and blind people will have no problems using 
>> the iPhone. I know for fact this is the case and I have gotten 
>> Confirmation from a source. Point is, like anything, there may be a 
>> learning curve, but it will work and it will be up to you to 
>> determine if it fits your needs.
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> >




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Macbook numpad

[E.J. Zufelt]

Good evening,

Does anyone know if the virtual numpad has returned to the new  
generation Macbook keyboards?

Thanks,
Everett

Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt

View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt






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Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor

[Mike Arrigo]

They also did not mention the numpad commander, which makes navigation  
10 times easier. Granted, you can't do that on a laptop, but when  
using a desktop keyboard, it's a great help.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:54 PM, James Dietz wrote:

>
> Nearly everything they point out is negative. It's almost as if
> they're deliberately skipping over what the screenreader does well so
> that they can get right to the bad stuff.  My favorite has to be the
> section where they discuss using voiceover with the internet - while
> there are some legitimate problems with group mode and ajax pages
> (which I would've agreed with if they'd been mentioned), it does
> present info in a logical form to me anyway. That's subjective, but
> they they go on to say that commands to move between different
> elements of a page were not readily apparent and had to be learned.
> Commands need to be learned for every program, including JAWS and
> Window-Eyes. Yeesh! They also mentioned the fact that vo+arrowing
> through elements was tedius. This is tricky, but that's pretty much
> how JFW handles it - with the exception that you can pgdn through a
> page to skip bigger chunks. They didn't mention that, so not sure if
> they're being entirely fair. The article raised some good points -
> training would help explain things like the infamous double-sided
> cursor (which they didn't quite realize existed - for the record VO
> was not mis-speaking characters) and use of the mac itself in
> combination with voiceover.  Once Apple can sell a mac to blind users
> with some vo-specific training, they might be able to tap into the
> market a little better. Of course it's doubtful they will actually do
> this - blind services buy computers and software for working blind
> people. That means Microsoft Windows and JAWS (or window-eyes I guess)
> because that's what workplaces use. Apple seems to have accepted and
> embraced it's market position as the cool slick do-it-all magic box
> for home users.
>
> On 6/9/09, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> The biggest problem with this article I think is that they are  
>> comparing
>> voice over too much to windows screen readers. While I like to  
>> compare some
>> things about the mac to elements in windows such as the finder to  
>> explorer,
>> and the doc to the windows task bar and quick launch, they did this  
>> review
>> with way too much expectation for voice over and the mac to behave  
>> like
>> windows.
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Michael Reiser
>>  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>  Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:40 PM
>>  Subject: mac voiceover in braille monitor
>>
>>
>>  Just thought I'd share this with everyone.  The nfb featured vo in  
>> the
>> june 2009 issue of the braille monitor.  While I agree with some of  
>> the
>> concerns here, I disaggree with quite a few especially that vo  
>> should just
>> read everything automatically.  Ironic that many of the concerns  
>> put forth
>> will be addressed in snow lepard.  Would love toÎ hear everyone  
>> else's take
>> on this.
>>
>>
>>  I'll paste the article here for easy reading.  Braille Monitor
>>   June 2009
>>  (back) (contents) (next)
>>
>>  Report on the Ease of Access of the Apple OS 10.5 Leopard  
>> Environment with
>> VoiceOver
>>  by Wesley Majerus
>>
>>  From the Editor: Almost as long as computers have dominated the  
>> lives of
>> many Americans, some people have praised the Apple products with a  
>> fervor
>> verging on the religious. The operating system has always been more  
>> visually
>> intuitive than that of the PC, and manipulating graphics on Apple  
>> products
>> is apparently both easy and satisfying. But since the Apple IIe in  
>> the early
>> days, which seems to have incorporated some speech access, Apple  
>> products
>> have been remarkably inaccessible to blind users.
>>
>>  Now for the first time the Apple Macintosh operating system has been
>> equipped with VoiceOver, which provides more speech access than  
>> blind people
>> have ever had on Apple products. But how good is it? How efficient  
>> is the
>> speech? Does the blind user have access to every computer function?
>> International Braille and Technology Center Access Technology  
>> Specialist
>> Wesley Majerus set out to put the Mac and VoiceOver through their  
>> paces.
>> Here is his report:
>>
>>  Apple's Macintosh computer is one of the only systems to have  
>> integrated,
>> full-function screen-access software. Because it is a part of the  
>> operating
>> system, it is usable out of the box and on the showroom floor. You  
>> can
>> simply walk up to any Macintosh computer running OS 10.5 Leopard  
>> and press
>> Command (CMD)+F5 to try out the screen-access software. In this  
>> article I
>> outline some of my impressions of VoiceOver after the weeklong  
>> evaluation I
>> recently undertook. Throughout this document reference will be made  
>> to VO
>> keys or to pressing VO wit

Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor

[Mike Arrigo]

I agree. You may use more keystrokes on a mac, but a sighted user is  
going to also need to scroll the screen etc. It seems like when they  
did this review, if it didn't do things the way a windows screen  
reader does, then it's unfortunate. Even if many blind users have used  
windows, so what. Just because something is the most popular, doesn't  
mean it's the best or the only way to do something.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:37 PM, Michael Reiser wrote:

> I agree Mike, they seemed to come at it with an expectation that it  
> would behave like it does in Windows.  Unfortunately, most people  
> have that expectation.  I do think that Apple should improve the  
> documentation and talk about mac commands and basics of using mac  
> and vo.  They should also up front say how vo should not be expected  
> to be like Windows.  I really think that for to long blind users  
> have been spoon fed by the screen readers on Windows and they no  
> longer do what there designed to do in allot of cases.  With scripts  
> and all that, this incourages windows devs not to develope for  
> access.  Thanks,
>
> Mike
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:41 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>
>> The biggest problem with this article I think is that they are  
>> comparing voice over too much to windows screen readers. While I  
>> like to compare some things about the mac to elements in windows  
>> such as the finder to explorer, and the doc to the windows task bar  
>> and quick launch, they did this review with way too much  
>> expectation for voice over and the mac to behave like windows.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Michael Reiser
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:40 PM
>> Subject: mac voiceover in braille monitor
>>
>> Just thought I'd share this with everyone.  The nfb featured vo in  
>> the june 2009 issue of the braille monitor.  While I agree with  
>> some of the concerns here, I disaggree with quite a few especially  
>> that vo should just read everything automatically.  Ironic that  
>> many of the concerns put forth will be addressed in snow lepard.   
>> Would love toÎ hear everyone else's take on this.
>>
>> I'll paste the article here for easy reading.  Braille  
>> MonitorJune 2009
>> (back) (contents) (next)
>>
>> Report on the Ease of Access of the Apple OS 10.5 Leopard  
>> Environment with VoiceOver
>> by Wesley Majerus
>>
>> From the Editor: Almost as long as computers  
>> have dominated the lives of many Americans, some people have  
>> praised the Apple products with a fervor verging on the religious.  
>> The operating system has always been more visually intuitive than  
>> that of the PC, and manipulating graphics on Apple products is  
>> apparently both easy and satisfying. But since the Apple IIe in the  
>> early days, which seems to have incorporated some speech access,  
>> Apple products have been remarkably inaccessible to blind users.
>>
>> Now for the first time the Apple Macintosh operating system has  
>> been equipped with VoiceOver, which provides more speech access  
>> than blind people have ever had on Apple products. But how good is  
>> it? How efficient is the speech? Does the blind user have access to  
>> every computer function? International Braille and Technology  
>> Center Access Technology Specialist Wesley Majerus set out to put  
>> the Mac and VoiceOver through their paces. Here is his report:
>>
>> Apple's Macintosh computer is one of the only systems to have  
>> integrated, full-function screen-access software. Because it is a  
>> part of the operating system, it is usable out of the box and on  
>> the showroom floor. You can simply walk up to any Macintosh  
>> computer running OS 10.5 Leopard and press Command(CMD)+F5 to  
>> try out the screen-access software. In this article I outline some  
>> of my impressions of VoiceOver after the weeklong evaluation I  
>> recently undertook. Throughout this document reference will be made  
>> to VO keys or to pressing VO with other keys. These references are  
>> to the VoiceOver keys, which are CTRL+Option and are held down in  
>> conjunction with other keyboard keys to perform tasks specific to  
>> the VoiceOver screen-access software.
>>
>> As I undertook the evaluation of VoiceOver's usability, I  
>> identified several important tasks and uses for the Macintosh.  
>> These included sending and receiving email; browsing the Web;  
>> downloading files; and file management, including moving and  
>> deleting files. I also wanted to know whether a user having  
>> difficulties could get help from the Mac OS X help utility. Because  
>> creating and editing documents is a central reason to use a  
>> computer, I evaluated the TextEdit word processing application. In  
>> this article these tasks will be presented in order of popularity.  
>> People are most likely to use their computers for text editing,  
>> email management, br

Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor

[James Dietz]

Really? I know FS is one of the key sponsers of the convention, but
does that really mean they have an agenda? I can almost believe it, as
like I said it really wasn't so much a debate of pros and cons as it
was a list of cons. I don't want to help escolate this into a flame
war, but I am curious to know if what people have said about blindness
organizations and blind-specific tech and other companies is really
true. In a perfect world they'd just want what would be best for the
blind user, and I don't see how anyone could argue with mainstream
screenreading action. If it's not a quality product or hasn't matured
much (like Microsoft's narrator) then a complaint is justified.

On 6/9/09, Michael Reiser  wrote:
>
> They have FS and other companies in there pockets, so they have to
> discredit someone else.
>
> Mike
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:54 PM, James Dietz wrote:
>
>>
>> Nearly everything they point out is negative. It's almost as if
>> they're deliberately skipping over what the screenreader does well so
>> that they can get right to the bad stuff.  My favorite has to be the
>> section where they discuss using voiceover with the internet - while
>> there are some legitimate problems with group mode and ajax pages
>> (which I would've agreed with if they'd been mentioned), it does
>> present info in a logical form to me anyway. That's subjective, but
>> they they go on to say that commands to move between different
>> elements of a page were not readily apparent and had to be learned.
>> Commands need to be learned for every program, including JAWS and
>> Window-Eyes. Yeesh! They also mentioned the fact that vo+arrowing
>> through elements was tedius. This is tricky, but that's pretty much
>> how JFW handles it - with the exception that you can pgdn through a
>> page to skip bigger chunks. They didn't mention that, so not sure if
>> they're being entirely fair. The article raised some good points -
>> training would help explain things like the infamous double-sided
>> cursor (which they didn't quite realize existed - for the record VO
>> was not mis-speaking characters) and use of the mac itself in
>> combination with voiceover.  Once Apple can sell a mac to blind users
>> with some vo-specific training, they might be able to tap into the
>> market a little better. Of course it's doubtful they will actually do
>> this - blind services buy computers and software for working blind
>> people. That means Microsoft Windows and JAWS (or window-eyes I guess)
>> because that's what workplaces use. Apple seems to have accepted and
>> embraced it's market position as the cool slick do-it-all magic box
>> for home users.
>>
>> On 6/9/09, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>> The biggest problem with this article I think is that they are
>>> comparing
>>> voice over too much to windows screen readers. While I like to
>>> compare some
>>> things about the mac to elements in windows such as the finder to
>>> explorer,
>>> and the doc to the windows task bar and quick launch, they did this
>>> review
>>> with way too much expectation for voice over and the mac to behave
>>> like
>>> windows.
>>>  - Original Message -
>>>  From: Michael Reiser
>>>  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:40 PM
>>>  Subject: mac voiceover in braille monitor
>>>
>>>
>>>  Just thought I'd share this with everyone.  The nfb featured vo in
>>> the
>>> june 2009 issue of the braille monitor.  While I agree with some of
>>> the
>>> concerns here, I disaggree with quite a few especially that vo
>>> should just
>>> read everything automatically.  Ironic that many of the concerns
>>> put forth
>>> will be addressed in snow lepard.  Would love toÎ hear everyone
>>> else's take
>>> on this.
>>>
>>>
>>>  I'll paste the article here for easy reading.  Braille Monitor
>>>   June 2009
>>>  (back) (contents) (next)
>>>
>>>  Report on the Ease of Access of the Apple OS 10.5 Leopard
>>> Environment with
>>> VoiceOver
>>>  by Wesley Majerus
>>>
>>>  From the Editor: Almost as long as computers have dominated the
>>> lives of
>>> many Americans, some people have praised the Apple products with a
>>> fervor
>>> verging on the religious. The operating system has always been more
>>> visually
>>> intuitive than that of the PC, and manipulating graphics on Apple
>>> products
>>> is apparently both easy and satisfying. But since the Apple IIe in
>>> the early
>>> days, which seems to have incorporated some speech access, Apple
>>> products
>>> have been remarkably inaccessible to blind users.
>>>
>>>  Now for the first time the Apple Macintosh operating system has been
>>> equipped with VoiceOver, which provides more speech access than
>>> blind people
>>> have ever had on Apple products. But how good is it? How efficient
>>> is the
>>> speech? Does the blind user have access to every computer function?
>>> International Braille and Technology Center Access Technology
>>> Specialist
>>> Wesley Majerus 

Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor

[Michael Reiser]

They have FS and other companies in there pockets, so they have to  
discredit someone else.

Mike
On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:54 PM, James Dietz wrote:

>
> Nearly everything they point out is negative. It's almost as if
> they're deliberately skipping over what the screenreader does well so
> that they can get right to the bad stuff.  My favorite has to be the
> section where they discuss using voiceover with the internet - while
> there are some legitimate problems with group mode and ajax pages
> (which I would've agreed with if they'd been mentioned), it does
> present info in a logical form to me anyway. That's subjective, but
> they they go on to say that commands to move between different
> elements of a page were not readily apparent and had to be learned.
> Commands need to be learned for every program, including JAWS and
> Window-Eyes. Yeesh! They also mentioned the fact that vo+arrowing
> through elements was tedius. This is tricky, but that's pretty much
> how JFW handles it - with the exception that you can pgdn through a
> page to skip bigger chunks. They didn't mention that, so not sure if
> they're being entirely fair. The article raised some good points -
> training would help explain things like the infamous double-sided
> cursor (which they didn't quite realize existed - for the record VO
> was not mis-speaking characters) and use of the mac itself in
> combination with voiceover.  Once Apple can sell a mac to blind users
> with some vo-specific training, they might be able to tap into the
> market a little better. Of course it's doubtful they will actually do
> this - blind services buy computers and software for working blind
> people. That means Microsoft Windows and JAWS (or window-eyes I guess)
> because that's what workplaces use. Apple seems to have accepted and
> embraced it's market position as the cool slick do-it-all magic box
> for home users.
>
> On 6/9/09, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> The biggest problem with this article I think is that they are  
>> comparing
>> voice over too much to windows screen readers. While I like to  
>> compare some
>> things about the mac to elements in windows such as the finder to  
>> explorer,
>> and the doc to the windows task bar and quick launch, they did this  
>> review
>> with way too much expectation for voice over and the mac to behave  
>> like
>> windows.
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Michael Reiser
>>  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>  Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:40 PM
>>  Subject: mac voiceover in braille monitor
>>
>>
>>  Just thought I'd share this with everyone.  The nfb featured vo in  
>> the
>> june 2009 issue of the braille monitor.  While I agree with some of  
>> the
>> concerns here, I disaggree with quite a few especially that vo  
>> should just
>> read everything automatically.  Ironic that many of the concerns  
>> put forth
>> will be addressed in snow lepard.  Would love toÎ hear everyone  
>> else's take
>> on this.
>>
>>
>>  I'll paste the article here for easy reading.  Braille Monitor
>>   June 2009
>>  (back) (contents) (next)
>>
>>  Report on the Ease of Access of the Apple OS 10.5 Leopard  
>> Environment with
>> VoiceOver
>>  by Wesley Majerus
>>
>>  From the Editor: Almost as long as computers have dominated the  
>> lives of
>> many Americans, some people have praised the Apple products with a  
>> fervor
>> verging on the religious. The operating system has always been more  
>> visually
>> intuitive than that of the PC, and manipulating graphics on Apple  
>> products
>> is apparently both easy and satisfying. But since the Apple IIe in  
>> the early
>> days, which seems to have incorporated some speech access, Apple  
>> products
>> have been remarkably inaccessible to blind users.
>>
>>  Now for the first time the Apple Macintosh operating system has been
>> equipped with VoiceOver, which provides more speech access than  
>> blind people
>> have ever had on Apple products. But how good is it? How efficient  
>> is the
>> speech? Does the blind user have access to every computer function?
>> International Braille and Technology Center Access Technology  
>> Specialist
>> Wesley Majerus set out to put the Mac and VoiceOver through their  
>> paces.
>> Here is his report:
>>
>>  Apple's Macintosh computer is one of the only systems to have  
>> integrated,
>> full-function screen-access software. Because it is a part of the  
>> operating
>> system, it is usable out of the box and on the showroom floor. You  
>> can
>> simply walk up to any Macintosh computer running OS 10.5 Leopard  
>> and press
>> Command (CMD)+F5 to try out the screen-access software. In this  
>> article I
>> outline some of my impressions of VoiceOver after the weeklong  
>> evaluation I
>> recently undertook. Throughout this document reference will be made  
>> to VO
>> keys or to pressing VO with other keys. These references are to the
>> VoiceOver keys, which are CTRL+Option and 

Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Michael Reiser]

They probably won't say anything right now but good sources from there  
have said they would carry it.  We'll just have to see what happens.

Mike
On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:44 PM, peter Apgar wrote:

>
> Sorry all to be the barer of bad news,  I just hung up with VZ  
> sales.  Per
> my discussion VZ will not be carrying  the I phone.  ATT is still  
> the only
> company.
>
> Pete
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Wanger
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:29 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
>
> Scott,
>
> In a couple of previous messages you've said that the iPhone will be  
> on the
> Verizon network. I'm not sure about the validity of what you are  
> saying.
> Apple and at&t have an exclusive contract. The length of this  
> contract isn't
> really clear and, in light of some things said yesterday, I am  
> thinking that
> Apple might look to make some changes at the end of the deal. But,  
> its very
> well known that these two companies have an exclusive deal in the  
> United
> States.
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Scott Howell wrote:
>
>>
>> It does work, will work, and blind people will have no problems using
>> the iPhone. I know for fact this is the case and I have gotten
>> Confirmation from a source. Point is, like anything, there may be a
>> learning curve, but it will work and it will be up to you to  
>> determine
>> if it fits your needs.
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> >


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Re: mac voiceover in braille monitor

[James Dietz]

Nearly everything they point out is negative. It's almost as if
they're deliberately skipping over what the screenreader does well so
that they can get right to the bad stuff.  My favorite has to be the
section where they discuss using voiceover with the internet - while
there are some legitimate problems with group mode and ajax pages
(which I would've agreed with if they'd been mentioned), it does
present info in a logical form to me anyway. That's subjective, but
they they go on to say that commands to move between different
elements of a page were not readily apparent and had to be learned.
Commands need to be learned for every program, including JAWS and
Window-Eyes. Yeesh! They also mentioned the fact that vo+arrowing
through elements was tedius. This is tricky, but that's pretty much
how JFW handles it - with the exception that you can pgdn through a
page to skip bigger chunks. They didn't mention that, so not sure if
they're being entirely fair. The article raised some good points -
training would help explain things like the infamous double-sided
cursor (which they didn't quite realize existed - for the record VO
was not mis-speaking characters) and use of the mac itself in
combination with voiceover.  Once Apple can sell a mac to blind users
with some vo-specific training, they might be able to tap into the
market a little better. Of course it's doubtful they will actually do
this - blind services buy computers and software for working blind
people. That means Microsoft Windows and JAWS (or window-eyes I guess)
because that's what workplaces use. Apple seems to have accepted and
embraced it's market position as the cool slick do-it-all magic box
for home users.

On 6/9/09, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> The biggest problem with this article I think is that they are comparing
> voice over too much to windows screen readers. While I like to compare some
> things about the mac to elements in windows such as the finder to explorer,
> and the doc to the windows task bar and quick launch, they did this review
> with way too much expectation for voice over and the mac to behave like
> windows.
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Michael Reiser
>   To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:40 PM
>   Subject: mac voiceover in braille monitor
>
>
>   Just thought I'd share this with everyone.  The nfb featured vo in the
> june 2009 issue of the braille monitor.  While I agree with some of the
> concerns here, I disaggree with quite a few especially that vo should just
> read everything automatically.  Ironic that many of the concerns put forth
> will be addressed in snow lepard.  Would love toÎ hear everyone else's take
> on this.
>
>
>   I'll paste the article here for easy reading.  Braille Monitor
>June 2009
>   (back) (contents) (next)
>
>   Report on the Ease of Access of the Apple OS 10.5 Leopard Environment with
> VoiceOver
>   by Wesley Majerus
>
>   From the Editor: Almost as long as computers have dominated the lives of
> many Americans, some people have praised the Apple products with a fervor
> verging on the religious. The operating system has always been more visually
> intuitive than that of the PC, and manipulating graphics on Apple products
> is apparently both easy and satisfying. But since the Apple IIe in the early
> days, which seems to have incorporated some speech access, Apple products
> have been remarkably inaccessible to blind users.
>
>   Now for the first time the Apple Macintosh operating system has been
> equipped with VoiceOver, which provides more speech access than blind people
> have ever had on Apple products. But how good is it? How efficient is the
> speech? Does the blind user have access to every computer function?
> International Braille and Technology Center Access Technology Specialist
> Wesley Majerus set out to put the Mac and VoiceOver through their paces.
> Here is his report:
>
>   Apple's Macintosh computer is one of the only systems to have integrated,
> full-function screen-access software. Because it is a part of the operating
> system, it is usable out of the box and on the showroom floor. You can
> simply walk up to any Macintosh computer running OS 10.5 Leopard and press
> Command (CMD)+F5 to try out the screen-access software. In this article I
> outline some of my impressions of VoiceOver after the weeklong evaluation I
> recently undertook. Throughout this document reference will be made to VO
> keys or to pressing VO with other keys. These references are to the
> VoiceOver keys, which are CTRL+Option and are held down in conjunction with
> other keyboard keys to perform tasks specific to the VoiceOver screen-access
> software.
>
>   As I undertook the evaluation of VoiceOver's usability, I identified
> several important tasks and uses for the Macintosh. These included sending
> and receiving email; browsing the Web; downloading files; and file
> management, including moving and del

Moving Files from PC to Mac

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

I am posting this for the use of anyone out there wanting to move  
their whole PC to a Mac, at least Filewise.

Take them both into an Apple Store, and it will be looked after by a  
genius.

Regards,
Alex,



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Moving Files from PC to Mac

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

I am posting this for the use of anyone out there wanting to move  
their whole PC to a Mac, at least Filewise.

Take them both into an Apple Store, and it will be looked after by a  
genius.

Regards,
Alex,



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To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
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My iPhone

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

I can't believe it. My first day back on the job as an accessibility  
consultant after nearly a year is next Wednsday, the same day the  
iPhone firmware is released. I work in an environment where just about  
every employee has an iPhone, so I am sure I'll be able to borrow one  
of my fellow workers to try the new Voiceoverl. I don't have one  
because I am part-time so they don't give me one.

I'll write about my findings. I am so excited.

Regards,
Alex,



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Moving Files from PC to Mac

[Alex Jurgensen]

Hi,

I am posting this for the use of anyone out there wanting to move  
their whole PC to a Mac, at least Filewise.

Take them both into an Apple Store, and it will be looked after by a  
genius.

Regards,
Alex,



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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
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Re: assistive tech store marketing mac

[Brent Harding]

I suppose some people that live in Sanfrancisco might want the on site 
installation and the like. The important thing if you were going to buy from 
them is whether or not they are authorized for service by Apple so if you 
need repair you can get it, should they not be around some day down the 
road. I wish there was a way to find the authorized resellers/repair places 
as for me, both are a good Greyhound trip away for the actual Apple stores. 
I was thinking about wanting to get my Macbook upgraded to a Super Drive so 
I could burn DVD's.

- Original Message - 
From: "Justin Harford" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 12:54 PM
Subject: assistive tech store marketing mac


>
> I find this both Scandalous that they would make blind people pay them
> to "customize" an imac, and flattering that they would consider
> marketing an imac at all.
>
> http://www.rla.com/
>
> Click on the store link, and there is another link "request quote for
> mac systems"
>
> Regards
> Justin Harford
>
> >
> 


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Re_P2P file sharing

[Mike]

Hi John:

Thanks for the tidbits. I have just downloaded and installed Acqlite.
You can go in the preferences and configure where to put your files
and the like and it's fairly accessible.

Thanks AGN:

Mike

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Re: P2P file shareing...

[Michael Ryan]

Hi John:

Thanks for the tidbit. LOL
I have it downloaded and installed.
If you go under the preferences, you can configure where to save your  
imcomeplete files, your completed ones and as well configure your  
bandwidth.
Many thanks again:

Mike

On 9-Jun-09, at 10:46 PM, John J Herzog wrote:

>
> Hi Mike.
> You can try acqlite. Although far from perfect, this is the most VO
> friendly p2p client I've found. Email me if you want directions on how
> to use it. I'll only post a brief set here.
> First, after launching acqlite, interact with the toolbar. Look for
> where it says search for files. Then, start typing your file name in.
> When you're done hit enter. Now, here's the complicated part.
>
> After waiting a few seconds, go to the bottom of the window. Voiceover
> will say table, but don't try to interact with it. All you will hear
> is unknown. Now, hit VO left arrow once, and you'll land on a table.
> Interact with the table, and you'll hear voiceover say unknown. Keep
> hitting the VO and right arrow, until you hear voiceover say AQ remote
> file. This statement will then be followed by the name of the file,
> it's size, and the number of peers that have the file on the network.
> Note: It is extremely important to wait a few minutes before doing
> this. If you don't, voiceover will be cut off before it's done
> speaking all the info, and alert you to how many more rows have been
> added to the table you're interacting with. Obviously, these are the
> results of your search, and it can be really annoying to have those
> come in before voiceover finishes reading what you wanted it to. To
> start downloading something, hit enter on it. Also, since there's no
> accessible way to change where acqlite stores files, it will store
> them in the same folder where you put the application itself. It will
> make another folder called incomplete for the files that do not
> download correctly, or that it is still in the process of downloading.
> As for the finished files, they just appear in the first level of the
> directory, i.e. the same as acqlite itself.
> I hope this helps,
>
> John
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> John
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 2:26 PM, Mike wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi all:
>>
>> Anyone know of a VO accessible P2P file sharing program for music and
>> the like.
>> I tried the latest LimeWire and the problems persist with it.  
>> Crashing
>> and so on.
>>
>> TNX all:
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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RE: voice over comes to the I phone

[peter Apgar]

Sorry all to be the barer of bad news,  I just hung up with VZ sales.  Per
my discussion VZ will not be carrying  the I phone.  ATT is still the only
company.

Pete 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Wanger
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:29 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


Scott,

In a couple of previous messages you've said that the iPhone will be on the
Verizon network. I'm not sure about the validity of what you are saying.
Apple and at&t have an exclusive contract. The length of this contract isn't
really clear and, in light of some things said yesterday, I am thinking that
Apple might look to make some changes at the end of the deal. But, its very
well known that these two companies have an exclusive deal in the United
States.


On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Scott Howell wrote:

>
> It does work, will work, and blind people will have no problems using 
> the iPhone. I know for fact this is the case and I have gotten 
> Confirmation from a source. Point is, like anything, there may be a 
> learning curve, but it will work and it will be up to you to determine 
> if it fits your needs.
>
>
> >




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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Larry Wanger]

I've never heard of such restrictions on the iPhone. Apple had  
restricted GPS functionality on the previous versions of the iPhone  
but those have been lifted. The company that showed their application  
yesterday was TomTom. I suspect this application is geared to drivers  
and not people like you and I who are walking.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 4:38 PM, Brent Harding wrote:

>
> I thought I heard that GPS like we need will never be a possibility  
> with the
> maps program it comes with. I thought Apple is contractually  
> obligated to
> stop short of turn by turn directions and not approve apps that do it.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Larry Wanger" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 7:44 AM
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
>
>>
>> And, you've made the point. You have more choices and the main  
>> drivers
>> behind your decision aren't what's accessible to you in the phone
>> market, its what phone offers you what you need. And that my friend  
>> is
>> what this is all about. You have another choice.
>>
>> Just as an FYI, you don't need iTunes once you get this set up. You
>> need iTunes to get speech and other accessibility functions working  
>> on
>> the phone for sure. But, after that, all bets are off. I know for a
>> fact that there are 3rd party products out there that can allow you  
>> to
>> sync your iPhone without ever using iTunes. In fact, I use one of
>> those 3rd party products to sync up my Samsung right now. So, iTunes
>> is not required.
>>
>> A BRF/Daisey reader, in due time I suspect. I'm sure that will  
>> happen.
>> Like anything else, a developer just needs to step forward and do it.
>>
>> GPS solution for the blind? Who says that MobileGeo couldn't be
>> written for the OS/phone platform? And, like the Windows based  
>> phones,
>> I'm sure that through blue tooth you could use an independent GPS
>> receiver as most of us do now.
>>
>> It is interesting that they don't mention Braille and I wonder about
>> that feature as well. I don't use it but could see that being of
>> value. So, maybe its in the works.
>>
>> However, nothing you've thrown out here seems impossible and, just
>> like everyone else, you have a choice about what platform and phone
>> you use.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:19 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys,  I have to admit, when I read this, the sweat started  
>>> pouring
>>> and the hart started thumping.  It was better than my third cup of
>>> coffee in the morning which I'm still looking forward to with some
>>> anticipation, smiles.  Speaking of which, one sec while I go pour  
>>> the
>>> second one...
>>>
>>> OK, So here's why I won't be tossing my mobile speak pocket  
>>> licence in
>>> the trash any time soon.
>>>
>>> First, I'm a scronnie, crabbie, and none too good-looking blind man.
>>> An IPhone won't get me more girls, put 10 pounds of muscle on me in
>>> exactly the right preportions, or make me a nicer person.  So forget
>>> it for the time being at least.
>>>
>>> So far, we have no braille display support.  I haven't read anything
>>> about a fully featured gps solution for the IPhone which I have to
>>> have, or a brf reader which I don't have to have, but will use on
>>> ocasion.  So it's really exciting to see the support coming along.
>>> I'd love to fly down to the apple store and play with one for half  
>>> an
>>> hour.  But I really use braille on my phone, and I really use a gps
>>> system, and I won't be replacing my current set up until these
>>> features are tested and true.
>>>
>>> So forgetting all the software you don't get, look at what you do
>>> get...  ITunes.  You need ITunes to sync your calendar and
>>> contacts?  ...seriously?  What happened to ISync?  Forget it.  I  
>>> can't
>>> wait to get rid of my IPod, because the software I tried to replace
>>> ITunes for syncing my music doesn't work and I'm sick of the whole
>>> mess.  Why would I want to buy another device that forces me to  
>>> ITunes
>>> to sync my calendar and contacts?  No thank you.  ITunes is getting
>>> the old command option delete as soon as this IPod is gone.  Not  
>>> that
>>> I have anything against the IPod. It's a beautiful machine.  My only
>>> problems with it are that it dumps my library every time the battery
>>> dies, and ITunes crashes whenever it tries to sync.  Oh, and ITunes
>>> doesn't update my library properly, and it won't let me change the
>>> settings for ripping/encoding cd's, and it corupts my library every
>>> three months or so and makes me start all over again, and it fills  
>>> my
>>> screen with all kinds of clutter I don't need, and Oh yeh, I  
>>> generally
>>> hate being forced into using software that I don't like...  Fwew!
>>>
>>> So basicly I'll wait till I can have the functionality that I have  
>>> on
>>> my I-Paq, especially gps navigation, braille support, and copy and
>>> paste file transfers.
>>>
>>> Another thing the IPhone didn't have previously whic

Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Larry Wanger]

Scott,

In a couple of previous messages you've said that the iPhone will be  
on the Verizon network. I'm not sure about the validity of what you  
are saying. Apple and at&t have an exclusive contract. The length of  
this contract isn't really clear and, in light of some things said  
yesterday, I am thinking that Apple might look to make some changes at  
the end of the deal. But, its very well known that these two companies  
have an exclusive deal in the United States.


On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Scott Howell wrote:

>
> It does work, will work, and blind people will have no problems using
> the iPhone. I know for fact this is the case and I have gotten
> Confirmation from a source. Point is, like anything, there may be a
> learning curve, but it will work and it will be up to you to determine
> if it fits your needs.
>
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Larry Wanger]

To throw some more fuel on this discussion, Apple tends to be a  
company that plans ahead and has a road map in terms of where it is  
going. Wouldn't you think that they knew that over time they  
anticipated adding voice over to the iPhone? And, we know that VO was  
on the Mac for a few years previous to it going to the iPhone. It  
would seem that as they helped developers design applications that  
they have been giving them the tools to make them accessible? So, what  
I'm really saying is that yesterday might not have been the first time  
that developers heard about VO on the iPhone. Or, its possible that  
they've just been developing applications following design  
specifications from Apple that will enable us to have good access to a  
lot of the applications. Not sure, just thinking. I'm thinking that  
games and some of the other very graphical applications won't work for  
us but many are very text rich and that could work. Also, I know there  
is a Kendle application and I wonder if we can get access to those  
books?




On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:03 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:

>
> I might be wrong, but Mac OS X has been around for quite a long time
> now, and it is possible to create Mac compatible apps without using
> the Cocoa framework. This is were I might really be wrong, but from
> what I heard yesterday from the WWDC keynote, and from what I've read,
> developers who make iPhone apps can only use a series of tools
> provided by Apple, with some 1000 API's, to create their software. So
> in such a restricted environment (that is, if I'm still not really
> wrong) shouldn't most apps just work with VO?
>
> Ignasi
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> HI,
>>>
>>> YOU ARE MISSING THE FEATURE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO FIX APPLICATIONS THAT
>>> ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE.
>>
>> ...Which I only saw mention of in the OS X section, not in the iPhone
>> section. Not to say it won't be possible. And this feature likely
>> won't fix apps that simply expose nothing (or very little) to VO in
>> the first place.
>>
>> All that said, my understanding is that iPhone apps, like most modern
>> OS X apps, use a common set of development tools and standard
>> controls. This should mean that most will be at least somewhat
>> accessible from the start. No?
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: P2P file shareing...

[John J Herzog]

Hi Mike.
You can try acqlite. Although far from perfect, this is the most VO  
friendly p2p client I've found. Email me if you want directions on how  
to use it. I'll only post a brief set here.
First, after launching acqlite, interact with the toolbar. Look for  
where it says search for files. Then, start typing your file name in.  
When you're done hit enter. Now, here's the complicated part.

After waiting a few seconds, go to the bottom of the window. Voiceover  
will say table, but don't try to interact with it. All you will hear  
is unknown. Now, hit VO left arrow once, and you'll land on a table.  
Interact with the table, and you'll hear voiceover say unknown. Keep  
hitting the VO and right arrow, until you hear voiceover say AQ remote  
file. This statement will then be followed by the name of the file,  
it's size, and the number of peers that have the file on the network.
Note: It is extremely important to wait a few minutes before doing  
this. If you don't, voiceover will be cut off before it's done  
speaking all the info, and alert you to how many more rows have been  
added to the table you're interacting with. Obviously, these are the  
results of your search, and it can be really annoying to have those  
come in before voiceover finishes reading what you wanted it to. To  
start downloading something, hit enter on it. Also, since there's no  
accessible way to change where acqlite stores files, it will store  
them in the same folder where you put the application itself. It will  
make another folder called incomplete for the files that do not  
download correctly, or that it is still in the process of downloading.  
As for the finished files, they just appear in the first level of the  
directory, i.e. the same as acqlite itself.
I hope this helps,

John


Hope this helps.

John

On Jun 9, 2009, at 2:26 PM, Mike wrote:

>
> Hi all:
>
> Anyone know of a VO accessible P2P file sharing program for music and
> the like.
> I tried the latest LimeWire and the problems persist with it. Crashing
> and so on.
>
> TNX all:
>
> Mike
>
> >


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Re: first effect of safari 4

[Mike Arrigo]

I wonder if there is any advantage to using web kit with regard to 
accessibility now instead of safari 4?
- Original Message - 
From: "Maxwell Ivey Jr." 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:16 PM
Subject: first effect of safari 4


>
> Hello group;  I too just installed safari 4.  I am always nervous when
> updating.  But the first change I noticed is on my own website.  I
> have a translate script on it.  Before now vo just said button as i
> tabbed through.  To know which language choice i was on I had to use
> the vo plus h. Just now it announced the language choices.  Hope this
> means more buttons will have labels.  Well, i can hope.  Good luck, Max
>
> > 


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Brent Harding]

For me, that's why I'd want to add Mobile Geo versus getting the trekker 
breeze for the same price. I played around with a friend's breeze once, but 
I just don't have people to take it around and program up places I might 
consider going if I knew what the route it makes might be like.

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Howell" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


>
> Yeah and it wouldn't cost $895, which quite frankly is a bit expensive
> in my opinion. And no, I'm not bashing anyone or Code Factory etc. I
> see the benefits of the software and for some $895 is well worth every
> dime and I can't argue that point. My hope is that maybe other options
> will become available that will be a little less expensive, that's all.
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:49 AM, Dan Eickmeier wrote:
>
>>
>> And what about that gps application that was demonstrated as part of
>> the WWDC keynote.  All the developer of that would have to do is make
>> that accessible with VO on the iPhone?  I'm assuming?
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Larry Wanger wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And, you've made the point. You have more choices and the main
>>> drivers
>>> behind your decision aren't what's accessible to you in the phone
>>> market, its what phone offers you what you need. And that my friend
>>> is
>>> what this is all about. You have another choice.
>>>
>>> Just as an FYI, you don't need iTunes once you get this set up. You
>>> need iTunes to get speech and other accessibility functions working
>>> on
>>> the phone for sure. But, after that, all bets are off. I know for a
>>> fact that there are 3rd party products out there that can allow you
>>> to
>>> sync your iPhone without ever using iTunes. In fact, I use one of
>>> those 3rd party products to sync up my Samsung right now. So, iTunes
>>> is not required.
>>>
>>> A BRF/Daisey reader, in due time I suspect. I'm sure that will
>>> happen.
>>> Like anything else, a developer just needs to step forward and do it.
>>>
>>> GPS solution for the blind? Who says that MobileGeo couldn't be
>>> written for the OS/phone platform? And, like the Windows based
>>> phones,
>>> I'm sure that through blue tooth you could use an independent GPS
>>> receiver as most of us do now.
>>>
>>> It is interesting that they don't mention Braille and I wonder about
>>> that feature as well. I don't use it but could see that being of
>>> value. So, maybe its in the works.
>>>
>>> However, nothing you've thrown out here seems impossible and, just
>>> like everyone else, you have a choice about what platform and phone
>>> you use.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:19 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>>>

 Hi guys,  I have to admit, when I read this, the sweat started
 pouring
 and the hart started thumping.  It was better than my third cup of
 coffee in the morning which I'm still looking forward to with some
 anticipation, smiles.  Speaking of which, one sec while I go pour
 the
 second one...

 OK, So here's why I won't be tossing my mobile speak pocket licence
 in
 the trash any time soon.

 First, I'm a scronnie, crabbie, and none too good-looking blind man.
 An IPhone won't get me more girls, put 10 pounds of muscle on me in
 exactly the right preportions, or make me a nicer person.  So forget
 it for the time being at least.

 So far, we have no braille display support.  I haven't read anything
 about a fully featured gps solution for the IPhone which I have to
 have, or a brf reader which I don't have to have, but will use on
 ocasion.  So it's really exciting to see the support coming along.
 I'd love to fly down to the apple store and play with one for half
 an
 hour.  But I really use braille on my phone, and I really use a gps
 system, and I won't be replacing my current set up until these
 features are tested and true.

 So forgetting all the software you don't get, look at what you do
 get...  ITunes.  You need ITunes to sync your calendar and
 contacts?  ...seriously?  What happened to ISync?  Forget it.  I
 can't
 wait to get rid of my IPod, because the software I tried to replace
 ITunes for syncing my music doesn't work and I'm sick of the whole
 mess.  Why would I want to buy another device that forces me to
 ITunes
 to sync my calendar and contacts?  No thank you.  ITunes is getting
 the old command option delete as soon as this IPod is gone.  Not
 that
 I have anything against the IPod. It's a beautiful machine.  My only
 problems with it are that it dumps my library every time the battery
 dies, and ITunes crashes whenever it tries to sync.  Oh, and ITunes
 doesn't update my library properly, and it won't let me change the
 settings for ripping/encoding cd's, and it corupts my library every
 three months or so and makes me start all over again, and it fill

Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Buddy Brannan]

Oy. Go listen to the WWDC keynote already.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Brent Harding wrote:

>
> What, there's a feature in OSX to run an app I download through to  
> fix most
> of the accessibility issues? I wish that effects panel in Audio  
> Hijack Pro
> could be fixed so I could record podcasts using both the mic and VO  
> without
> having to resort to time compression/expansion to make both files  
> the same
> length and then mix it down into one later.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Buddy Brannan" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> HI,
>>>
>>> YOU ARE MISSING THE FEATURE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO FIX APPLICATIONS THAT
>>> ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE.
>>
>> ...Which I only saw mention of in the OS X section, not in the iPhone
>> section. Not to say it won't be possible. And this feature likely
>> won't fix apps that simply expose nothing (or very little) to VO in
>> the first place.
>>
>> All that said, my understanding is that iPhone apps, like most modern
>> OS X apps, use a common set of development tools and standard
>> controls. This should mean that most will be at least somewhat
>> accessible from the start. No?
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> >

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 746-4127 or 888-75-BUDDY
Create your own economic stimulus package:
http://www.powermall.info


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Brent Harding]

What, there's a feature in OSX to run an app I download through to fix most 
of the accessibility issues? I wish that effects panel in Audio Hijack Pro 
could be fixed so I could record podcasts using both the mic and VO without 
having to resort to time compression/expansion to make both files the same 
length and then mix it down into one later.

- Original Message - 
From: "Buddy Brannan" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


>
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>
>>
>> HI,
>>
>> YOU ARE MISSING THE FEATURE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO FIX APPLICATIONS THAT
>> ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE.
>
> ...Which I only saw mention of in the OS X section, not in the iPhone
> section. Not to say it won't be possible. And this feature likely
> won't fix apps that simply expose nothing (or very little) to VO in
> the first place.
>
> All that said, my understanding is that iPhone apps, like most modern
> OS X apps, use a common set of development tools and standard
> controls. This should mean that most will be at least somewhat
> accessible from the start. No?
>
>
> >
> 


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Brent Harding]

Oh, I remember hearing that on Leo Laporte's show that because of the maps 
they used that it wasn't allowed for Google to do it and that Apple didn't 
approve Tom Tom because of it. Maybe they finally got over that, or that 
could've been something in the early days.

- Original Message - 
From: "Buddy Brannan" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


>
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Brent Harding wrote:
>
>>
>> I thought I heard that GPS like we need will never be a possibility
>> with the
>> maps program it comes with. I thought Apple is contractually
>> obligated to
>> stop short of turn by turn directions and not approve apps that do it.
>
> Dunno where you heard that, but they introduced just such a beast from
> Tomtom at WWDC.
>
>
> >
> 


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Re: Vo doesn't read text under some radio buttons

[Brett Campbell]

Hi Esther,

I'm new to Safari 4.  Does your statement "used to" mean that I no  
longer need to update web kit?

Thanks,

Brett



On Jun 9, 2009, at 4:16 PM, Esther wrote:

>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I don't know whether this will help, but try using VO-H and check
> whether there's a description.  If that doesn't work, try downloading
> one of the recent WebKit nightly builds from:
>
> http://nightly.webkit.org/
>
> WebKit is the underlying engine for Safari and some other web
> browsers. When you launch it as an app, it behaves like Safari, but
> has in place the current set of fixes.  See whether loading the pages
> on WebKit works for you.  Before the Safari 4 release, we would
> download WebKit to get the interim accessibility fixes.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Esther
>
> On 9 Jun 2009, at 12:10, Michael Reiser wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Just wanted to report that vo doesn't seem to read text under some
>> radio buttons.  An example of this is my school.  They use a thing
>> called desire to learn.  I just went to go take a quiz for class, but
>> all vo says for the choices is 1 radio button, 2 radio button, 3  
>> radio
>> button.  It worked in safari 3, and on windows with nvda and other
>> readers it works just fine.  I sent an email to apple accessibility
>> with a screenshot with no response yet.  Hope this gets fixed soon as
>> I won't beable to do my quizes this way.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Fonzie]

Hi everyone, I hope all is well.

Just thought I would come in with my side of what all this is about.

I think the idea of apple providing a mobile solution for the blind is  
wonderful.  It just provides another choice for those with mobile  
accessibility needs.  Choice is really what it is all about, in my  
opinion that is.  what may sway people away from getting an iPhone is  
the fact that the iPhone, like the Blackbery, has it's own data plan.   
This isn't a deal breaker, but some may be comfortable with their  
current data plan,, while others may want to pay the more expensive or  
less expensive cost, depending on your needs of course.  I like that  
it is coming around, and I certainly would like to try one out for  
myself.  Will I switch to an iPhone, probably not anytime soon.  My  
first priority is Snow Leopard, and then some side projects I have in  
mind as well.  If I am able to try it however, I will be sure to post  
my findings, and what I think about it.  Ultimately, the fact that the  
choice is provided, just makes the mobile world more accessible to the  
blind.  Perhaps it will not be accessible with all applications, but  
the idea that it is accessible now, just provides more room for growth  
in the future.

I believe the fact that accessible means coming out left and right,  
just pushes the growth of accessibility to better heights.

Take care all.

Best,

Fonzie


On Jun 9, 2009, at 6:38 PM, Brent Harding wrote:

>
> I thought I heard that GPS like we need will never be a possibility  
> with the
> maps program it comes with. I thought Apple is contractually  
> obligated to
> stop short of turn by turn directions and not approve apps that do it.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Larry Wanger" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 7:44 AM
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
>
>>
>> And, you've made the point. You have more choices and the main  
>> drivers
>> behind your decision aren't what's accessible to you in the phone
>> market, its what phone offers you what you need. And that my friend  
>> is
>> what this is all about. You have another choice.
>>
>> Just as an FYI, you don't need iTunes once you get this set up. You
>> need iTunes to get speech and other accessibility functions working  
>> on
>> the phone for sure. But, after that, all bets are off. I know for a
>> fact that there are 3rd party products out there that can allow you  
>> to
>> sync your iPhone without ever using iTunes. In fact, I use one of
>> those 3rd party products to sync up my Samsung right now. So, iTunes
>> is not required.
>>
>> A BRF/Daisey reader, in due time I suspect. I'm sure that will  
>> happen.
>> Like anything else, a developer just needs to step forward and do it.
>>
>> GPS solution for the blind? Who says that MobileGeo couldn't be
>> written for the OS/phone platform? And, like the Windows based  
>> phones,
>> I'm sure that through blue tooth you could use an independent GPS
>> receiver as most of us do now.
>>
>> It is interesting that they don't mention Braille and I wonder about
>> that feature as well. I don't use it but could see that being of
>> value. So, maybe its in the works.
>>
>> However, nothing you've thrown out here seems impossible and, just
>> like everyone else, you have a choice about what platform and phone
>> you use.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:19 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys,  I have to admit, when I read this, the sweat started  
>>> pouring
>>> and the hart started thumping.  It was better than my third cup of
>>> coffee in the morning which I'm still looking forward to with some
>>> anticipation, smiles.  Speaking of which, one sec while I go pour  
>>> the
>>> second one...
>>>
>>> OK, So here's why I won't be tossing my mobile speak pocket  
>>> licence in
>>> the trash any time soon.
>>>
>>> First, I'm a scronnie, crabbie, and none too good-looking blind man.
>>> An IPhone won't get me more girls, put 10 pounds of muscle on me in
>>> exactly the right preportions, or make me a nicer person.  So forget
>>> it for the time being at least.
>>>
>>> So far, we have no braille display support.  I haven't read anything
>>> about a fully featured gps solution for the IPhone which I have to
>>> have, or a brf reader which I don't have to have, but will use on
>>> ocasion.  So it's really exciting to see the support coming along.
>>> I'd love to fly down to the apple store and play with one for half  
>>> an
>>> hour.  But I really use braille on my phone, and I really use a gps
>>> system, and I won't be replacing my current set up until these
>>> features are tested and true.
>>>
>>> So forgetting all the software you don't get, look at what you do
>>> get...  ITunes.  You need ITunes to sync your calendar and
>>> contacts?  ...seriously?  What happened to ISync?  Forget it.  I  
>>> can't
>>> wait to get rid of my IPod, because the software I tried to replace
>>> ITunes for syncing my music doesn't w

Re: Vo doesn't read text under some radio buttons

[Ignasi Cambra]

Try reading the text on the radio buttons with VO+H. If it doesn't  
work, try VO+L.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 6:10 PM, Michael Reiser wrote:

>
> Hello all,
>
> Just wanted to report that vo doesn't seem to read text under some
> radio buttons.  An example of this is my school.  They use a thing
> called desire to learn.  I just went to go take a quiz for class, but
> all vo says for the choices is 1 radio button, 2 radio button, 3 radio
> button.  It worked in safari 3, and on windows with nvda and other
> readers it works just fine.  I sent an email to apple accessibility
> with a screenshot with no response yet.  Hope this gets fixed soon as
> I won't beable to do my quizes this way.
>
> Mike
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Buddy Brannan]

On Jun 9, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Brent Harding wrote:

>
> I thought I heard that GPS like we need will never be a possibility  
> with the
> maps program it comes with. I thought Apple is contractually  
> obligated to
> stop short of turn by turn directions and not approve apps that do it.

Dunno where you heard that, but they introduced just such a beast from  
Tomtom at WWDC.


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Brent Harding]

I thought I heard that GPS like we need will never be a possibility with the 
maps program it comes with. I thought Apple is contractually obligated to 
stop short of turn by turn directions and not approve apps that do it.

- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Wanger" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


>
> And, you've made the point. You have more choices and the main drivers
> behind your decision aren't what's accessible to you in the phone
> market, its what phone offers you what you need. And that my friend is
> what this is all about. You have another choice.
>
> Just as an FYI, you don't need iTunes once you get this set up. You
> need iTunes to get speech and other accessibility functions working on
> the phone for sure. But, after that, all bets are off. I know for a
> fact that there are 3rd party products out there that can allow you to
> sync your iPhone without ever using iTunes. In fact, I use one of
> those 3rd party products to sync up my Samsung right now. So, iTunes
> is not required.
>
> A BRF/Daisey reader, in due time I suspect. I'm sure that will happen.
> Like anything else, a developer just needs to step forward and do it.
>
> GPS solution for the blind? Who says that MobileGeo couldn't be
> written for the OS/phone platform? And, like the Windows based phones,
> I'm sure that through blue tooth you could use an independent GPS
> receiver as most of us do now.
>
> It is interesting that they don't mention Braille and I wonder about
> that feature as well. I don't use it but could see that being of
> value. So, maybe its in the works.
>
> However, nothing you've thrown out here seems impossible and, just
> like everyone else, you have a choice about what platform and phone
> you use.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:19 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi guys,  I have to admit, when I read this, the sweat started pouring
>> and the hart started thumping.  It was better than my third cup of
>> coffee in the morning which I'm still looking forward to with some
>> anticipation, smiles.  Speaking of which, one sec while I go pour the
>> second one...
>>
>> OK, So here's why I won't be tossing my mobile speak pocket licence in
>> the trash any time soon.
>>
>> First, I'm a scronnie, crabbie, and none too good-looking blind man.
>> An IPhone won't get me more girls, put 10 pounds of muscle on me in
>> exactly the right preportions, or make me a nicer person.  So forget
>> it for the time being at least.
>>
>> So far, we have no braille display support.  I haven't read anything
>> about a fully featured gps solution for the IPhone which I have to
>> have, or a brf reader which I don't have to have, but will use on
>> ocasion.  So it's really exciting to see the support coming along.
>> I'd love to fly down to the apple store and play with one for half an
>> hour.  But I really use braille on my phone, and I really use a gps
>> system, and I won't be replacing my current set up until these
>> features are tested and true.
>>
>> So forgetting all the software you don't get, look at what you do
>> get...  ITunes.  You need ITunes to sync your calendar and
>> contacts?  ...seriously?  What happened to ISync?  Forget it.  I can't
>> wait to get rid of my IPod, because the software I tried to replace
>> ITunes for syncing my music doesn't work and I'm sick of the whole
>> mess.  Why would I want to buy another device that forces me to ITunes
>> to sync my calendar and contacts?  No thank you.  ITunes is getting
>> the old command option delete as soon as this IPod is gone.  Not that
>> I have anything against the IPod. It's a beautiful machine.  My only
>> problems with it are that it dumps my library every time the battery
>> dies, and ITunes crashes whenever it tries to sync.  Oh, and ITunes
>> doesn't update my library properly, and it won't let me change the
>> settings for ripping/encoding cd's, and it corupts my library every
>> three months or so and makes me start all over again, and it fills my
>> screen with all kinds of clutter I don't need, and Oh yeh, I generally
>> hate being forced into using software that I don't like...  Fwew!
>>
>> So basicly I'll wait till I can have the functionality that I have on
>> my I-Paq, especially gps navigation, braille support, and copy and
>> paste file transfers.
>>
>> Another thing the IPhone didn't have previously which I hope they've
>> fixed now is cdma support. It's got to have cdma support to be really
>> viable here where CDMA is king.  I'm using gsm, and would be more ore
>> less happy with it if my carrier didn't lie to me, price gouge me, and
>> go behind my back at every turn.  I am counting down the days left on
>> my contract so I can cut my rediculous sell phone bill.  There are way
>> more CDMA carriers here than gsm though, in fact there are only two
>> gsm carriers here and they are both owned by the same company which is
>> universally hated here.  It's not just me t

Re: Vo doesn't read text under some radio buttons

[Esther]

Hi Mike,

I don't know whether this will help, but try using VO-H and check  
whether there's a description.  If that doesn't work, try downloading  
one of the recent WebKit nightly builds from:

http://nightly.webkit.org/

WebKit is the underlying engine for Safari and some other web  
browsers. When you launch it as an app, it behaves like Safari, but  
has in place the current set of fixes.  See whether loading the pages  
on WebKit works for you.  Before the Safari 4 release, we would  
download WebKit to get the interim accessibility fixes.

Cheers,

Esther

On 9 Jun 2009, at 12:10, Michael Reiser wrote:

>
> Hello all,
>
> Just wanted to report that vo doesn't seem to read text under some
> radio buttons.  An example of this is my school.  They use a thing
> called desire to learn.  I just went to go take a quiz for class, but
> all vo says for the choices is 1 radio button, 2 radio button, 3 radio
> button.  It worked in safari 3, and on windows with nvda and other
> readers it works just fine.  I sent an email to apple accessibility
> with a screenshot with no response yet.  Hope this gets fixed soon as
> I won't beable to do my quizes this way.
>
> Mike
>
> >


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Vo doesn't read text under some radio buttons

[Michael Reiser]

Hello all,

Just wanted to report that vo doesn't seem to read text under some  
radio buttons.  An example of this is my school.  They use a thing  
called desire to learn.  I just went to go take a quiz for class, but  
all vo says for the choices is 1 radio button, 2 radio button, 3 radio  
button.  It worked in safari 3, and on windows with nvda and other  
readers it works just fine.  I sent an email to apple accessibility  
with a screenshot with no response yet.  Hope this gets fixed soon as  
I won't beable to do my quizes this way.

Mike

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Re: P2P file shareing...

[Ignasi Cambra]

You can use uTorrent. It's a Bittorrent client and it's completely  
accessible with VO. I use it and am really happy with it.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 3:26 PM, Mike wrote:

>
> Hi all:
>
> Anyone know of a VO accessible P2P file sharing program for music and
> the like.
> I tried the latest LimeWire and the problems persist with it. Crashing
> and so on.
>
> TNX all:
>
> Mike
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[kaare dehard]

I'm a conservative grumpy old man, and I just bought a talks enabled  
phone. I'm glad that apple is doing something about this but won't  
even consider an iphone product until such time as it's time to trade  
in or if my phone stops providing services I really need. I'm glad to  
know however that when it is time to shop that the choices are  
broadening.

Cheers, Kaare.
On 9-Jun-09, at 10:55 AM, Michael Reiser wrote:

>
> Definitely excited.  Voiceover rocks on this mac and I'm sure it'll
> rock on the iphone.  I'll definitely be looking forward to tutorials
> on it and podcasts.  Also looking forward to snow lepard.
>
> Mike
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:15 AM, Jessi and Goldina wrote:
>
>>
>> yeah I know. exactly. although the e71 is pretty sleak too. I'm  
>> really
>> curious to see how the touch screen will work! that's another reason
>> why I want it. I'm a cutting edge kinda girl lol. I wanna be one of
>> the first blind people to pull out my iphone and use a touch screen
>> device!!! it'll be one of those "how do they do it?" moments lol. I'm
>> just so excited about where this is going! I wanna jump in!
>> but I do love my e71 and I just got it in january with a talks
>> upgrade!! so I dunno how I'd get an IPhone. although I'm on the right
>> carrier that has them, so hmmm.
>> On 9-Jun-09, at 1:00 AM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I know exactly what you mean (smiles)
>>> I want the sleekness and I could probably get used to the touch, but
>>> really, if you disregard the touch screen I really don't see many
>>> advantages that would justifie me spending that amount of money.
>>> But it is a i phone.
>>>
>>> On 09/06/2009, Jessi and Goldina  wrote:

 I'm in the same position. I love my e71 to death!!! it's a great
 phone!!! but an IPhone!!! just the thought of it is like wow!
 On 8-Jun-09, at 4:37 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:

>
> I can't diside if I should get one or not.
> The idea of knowing where abouts things are on the screen is a  
> good
> one - i've missed being able to know that since i've lost my site.
> However, I really don't see the advantage of a iphone over my e71.
>
> On 09/06/2009, glenn  wrote:
>> Hello
>> Does anyone know of any demonstration videos showing the addition
>> of
>> Voiceover?
>> Any word whether Voiceover will be available for the ipod touch?
>>
>> Glenn
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Josh de Lioncourt
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm still kind of in shock. This is beyond fantastic news. I'll
>> have to
>> get me an iPhone as soon as I possibly can. This is just
>> tremendous.
>>
>>
>> The description of how it works sounds very inuitive. I  
>> absoltuely
>> cannot
>> wait.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh de Lioncourt
>> …my other mail provider is an owl…
>>
>>
>>
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
>> Music: http://stage19music.com
>> Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
>> Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
>> GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt
>>
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Read.
>> http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Kind regards, BEN.
>
> email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
> msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
> web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)
>
>>


>

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Kind regards, BEN.
>>>
>>> email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
>>> msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
>>> web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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first effect of safari 4

[Maxwell Ivey Jr.]

Hello group;  I too just installed safari 4.  I am always nervous when  
updating.  But the first change I noticed is on my own website.  I  
have a translate script on it.  Before now vo just said button as i  
tabbed through.  To know which language choice i was on I had to use  
the vo plus h. Just now it announced the language choices.  Hope this  
means more buttons will have labels.  Well, i can hope.  Good luck, Max 

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My Mac just updated to Safari 4

[Brett Campbell]

I've been staying away from the beta, but it appears that the official  
Safari 4 is released.  My Mac just updated, and the problems in Mail I  
had with my brief trial with the beta don't seem to be present.

Brett

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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Scott Howell]

It does work, will work, and blind people will have no problems using  
the iPhone. I know for fact this is the case and I have gotten  
confirmation from a source. Point is, like anything, there may be a  
learning curve, but it will work and it will be up to you to determine  
if it fits your needs.


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Re: very nice experience at University Village Apple Store in Seattle Washington

[Ben King]

On Jun 8
Dear Mitchell,

Thank you for your reply.  I am glad that you had a wonderful  
experience.  Have a wonderful day.
Blessings,
Ben King, 2009, at 6:37 PM, Mitchell Smith wrote:

>
> I also visited the university village Apple store when I was in  
> Seattle late
> last year and found the staff there to be exceptionally helpful.
>
> I had to pick up a AC adapter for my Macbook since I left mine back in
> Australia (don't ask), and the sales person I dealt with had quite a  
> number
> of questions about how I used my Macbook and how VoiceOver worked.
>
> Of course the fact that I could just walk in to a store across the  
> other
> side of the world and pick up an AC adapter with no difficulties  
> really made
> me appreciate the Mac that day, I don't think I would have had quite  
> the
> same success if I was traveling with a Dell.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ben King" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:37 PM
> Subject: very nice experience at University Village Apple Store in  
> Seattle
> Washington
>
>
>>
>> Dear Mac Friends,
>>
>> I am writing you to let you know about an experience I had today at
>> the University Village Apple Store in Seattle Washington.  The person
>> that I spoke to was very nice and he asked me what I would like to  
>> see
>> improved in regards to Voiceover.  I told him that Fire Fox would be
>> nice with Voiceover support as well as maybe an accessible I Phone.
>> Anyway, it was extremely nice for me to go into an Apple Store and
>> play with main stream technology.  I love Voiceover as well as the
>> Mac.  I hope you all have a nice evening.
>> Blessings,
>> Ben King
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature database 4139 (20090608) __
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus  
> signature database 4139 (20090608) __
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
> >


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P2P file shareing...

[Mike]

Hi all:

Anyone know of a VO accessible P2P file sharing program for music and
the like.
I tried the latest LimeWire and the problems persist with it. Crashing
and so on.

TNX all:

Mike

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Re: assistive tech store marketing mac

[Scott Howell]

I think the customization they are talking about is more geared toward  
businesses etc. and installing possibly windows and the like. They  
aren't selling the machines for more than you could purchase it  
elsewhere. Yeah, I did a little digging around and they don't make a  
habit of selling to individuals. So, may not be as bad as it seems. :)
On Jun 9, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Justin Harford wrote:

>
> I find this both Scandalous that they would make blind people pay them
> to "customize" an imac, and flattering that they would consider
> marketing an imac at all.
>
> http://www.rla.com/
>
> Cl
>
> >


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Re: InTouch

[Tiffany D]

This GWP sounds great.  But it seems to fulfill my friend's dream and
not mine.  I want something portable that I can use to scan any object
or image, say a box of food at the grocery store or a hard copy map,
and feel it tactually.  Sounds like this thing is confined to the
computer.  Taking this discussion to the Opticon list and will let you
guys here know when I create thatnew group.

On 09/06/2009, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> Hi,
> Well i don't know much about the GWP other than that i've tried it
> very, very briefly and seen it described on Handytechs website, which
> you got the link for below.
> With a bit of training, i'm sure it can be just as useful as the
> Optacon, however i didn't have the device more than half a day so
> can't say for sure hwo this works.
> It's made for windows in the first place, but if we could port it for
> the Mac somehow, that'd be just great.
> /Krister
>
> 9 jun 2009 kl. 19.13 skrev Tiffany D:
>
>>
>> I'd like to learn more about them.  Email me offlist so we don't
>> getway too offtopic. *smile*
>>
>> On 09/06/2009, ben mustill-rose  wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.handytech.us/ht.html#gwp
>>>
>>> On 09/06/2009, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:

 Hi,
 I'm sorry to rain on your parade, (I'm known for doing that):-) but
 why reinvent the wheel? There is a device for that other operating
 system that is little known, called GWP, which is used to convey
 graphical info to us. The display is bigger than the Optacon one
 which
 in my opinion is better, because that smallish display plus the fact
 that the pins were vibrating all the time made me tired, very
 tired. I
 think, but am not sure that it's Handitech that makes this Gwp. If
 one
 could make drivers and/or software for the Mac, i think we have what
 you're looking for.
 /Krister


 9 jun 2009 kl. 05.29 skrev Tiffany D:

>
> This is very interesting.
> From
> http://www2.edc.org/ncip/LIBRARY/vi/combo.htm
> "inTOUCH (TeleSensory, Inc.)
> For Macintosh. A software that works with the Optacon II to provide
> tactile access and large print access to the Macintosh computer. As
> the mouse is moved, inTOUCH shows the area of the screen around the
> cursor on the Optacon display. Features are set from the keyboard.
> Other features include: a camera mode that allows the user to
> switch
> from the camera to the computer; a command that stretches the
> image to
> increase legibility; a screen position command that raises a
> couple of
> pins on the Optacon to indicate position of the cursor on the
> screen.
> Price: $400."
> I never knew that they upgraded the Opticon so that itcould be used
> with a computer, let alone theMacintosh!  Just imagine what would
> happen if we could make a modern version and use it with Leopard
> and
> Voiceover.  So would this show you the screen tactually or just
> indicate a position on the screen?  This is actually very
> important,
> cause a friend of mine and I are interested in creating something
> similar.  Thing is, he's a programmer and not an engineer and we're
> both low on cash.  I'm thinking of writing a petition to send to
> TeleSensory and maybe even Apple etc about creating a modern
> version
> of the Opticon.  I think that with advances like the IPhone and
> other
> software, the time is right for such a thing.  Granted, things like
> the KNFB Reader are amazing and have their place.  But they can't
> convey visual information to us in the same manner that feeling
> images
> on a display can.  The remaining opticons aren't getting any newer.
> Most of us won't ever get to see with our hands like that unless
> steps
> are taken to insure that technology such as this is brought into
> the
> 21st century.  How many of you, especially students, educators and
> those working in relatively graphical environments, would be
> willing
> to sign such a petition?  If there are enough, I'll create a
> separate
> group, comprised of us and other blind and interested parties so we
> can getthis thing rolling.  In the meantime, I'll try and track
> down
> the Opticons' creator or his daughter.  Perhaps, they can help.
>
> All the best,
> Eleni
>
>>


>

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kind regards, BEN.
>>>
>>> email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
>>> msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
>>> web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)
>>>

>>>
>>
>> >>
>
>

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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Ignasi Cambra]

Go to www.lioncourt.com and you will find it. There is an article  
about it on the home page, with links to the Apple website.

I
On Jun 9, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Jed Barton wrote:

> do you have the link for that page?
>
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 2:33 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
> Read the iPhone page on the apple accessibility website. It will  
> answer your questions.
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Jed Barton wrote:
>
>> does anyone have the info on the official release notes for it?
>> Does it work currently, and i would guess it would come with the  
>> iphone?
>> Also, how would someone work the keyboard since it has a touch  
>> screen.
>>
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of glenn
>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:28 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>>
>> Hello
>> Does anyone know of any demonstration videos showing the addition  
>> of Voiceover?
>> Any word whether Voiceover will be available for the ipod touch?
>>
>> Glenn
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Josh de Lioncourt
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>>
>>
>> I'm still kind of in shock. This is beyond fantastic news. I'll  
>> have to get me an iPhone as soon as I possibly can. This is just  
>> tremendous.
>>
>> The description of how it works sounds very inuitive. I absoltuely  
>> cannot wait.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh de Lioncourt
>> …my other mail provider is an owl…
>>
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
>> Music: http://stage19music.com
>> Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
>> Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
>> GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Read.
>>> http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Ignasi Cambra]

Read the iPhone page on the apple accessibility website. It will  
answer your questions.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Jed Barton wrote:

> does anyone have the info on the official release notes for it?
> Does it work currently, and i would guess it would come with the  
> iphone?
> Also, how would someone work the keyboard since it has a touch screen.
>
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> ] On Behalf Of glenn
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:28 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
> Hello
> Does anyone know of any demonstration videos showing the addition of  
> Voiceover?
> Any word whether Voiceover will be available for the ipod touch?
>
> Glenn
> - Original Message -
> From: Josh de Lioncourt
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:54 PM
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
>
> I'm still kind of in shock. This is beyond fantastic news. I'll have  
> to get me an iPhone as soon as I possibly can. This is just  
> tremendous.
>
> The description of how it works sounds very inuitive. I absoltuely  
> cannot wait.
>
>
>
> Josh de Lioncourt
> …my other mail provider is an owl…
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
> Music: http://stage19music.com
> Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
> Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
> GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt
>
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>
>>
>> Read.
>> http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Buddy Brannan]

On Jun 9, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Jed Barton wrote:

> do you have the link for that page?

It's only been posted a zillion times. This maks a zillion and one, I  
guess:
http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html


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RE: voice over comes to the I phone

[Jed Barton]

do you have the link for that page?

  _  

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ignasi Cambra
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 2:33 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


Read the iPhone page on the apple accessibility website. It will answer your
questions.

On Jun 9, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Jed Barton wrote:



does anyone have the info on the official release notes for it?
Does it work currently, and i would guess it would come with the iphone?
Also, how would someone work the keyboard since it has a touch screen.

  _  

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of glenn
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:28 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


Hello
Does anyone know of any demonstration videos showing the addition of
Voiceover?
Any word whether Voiceover will be available for the ipod touch?
 
Glenn

- Original Message -
From: Josh de Lioncourt  
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


I'm still kind of in shock. This is beyond fantastic news. I'll have to get
me an iPhone as soon as I possibly can. This is just tremendous. 

The description of how it works sounds very inuitive. I absoltuely cannot
wait.




Josh de Lioncourt
.my other mail provider is an owl.


Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
Music: http://stage19music.com
Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt

On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:



Read.
http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html
















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assistive tech store marketing mac

[Justin Harford]

I find this both Scandalous that they would make blind people pay them  
to "customize" an imac, and flattering that they would consider  
marketing an imac at all.

http://www.rla.com/

Cl

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assistive tech store marketing mac

[Justin Harford]

I find this both Scandalous that they would make blind people pay them  
to "customize" an imac, and flattering that they would consider  
marketing an imac at all.

http://www.rla.com/

Click on the store link, and there is another link "request quote for  
mac systems"

Regards
Justin Harford 

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RE: voice over comes to the I phone

[Jed Barton]

does anyone have the info on the official release notes for it?
Does it work currently, and i would guess it would come with the iphone?
Also, how would someone work the keyboard since it has a touch screen.

  _  

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of glenn
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:28 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


Hello
Does anyone know of any demonstration videos showing the addition of
Voiceover?
Any word whether Voiceover will be available for the ipod touch?
 
Glenn

- Original Message - 
From: Josh de   Lioncourt 
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone


I'm still kind of in shock. This is beyond fantastic news. I'll have to get
me an iPhone as soon as I possibly can. This is just tremendous. 

The description of how it works sounds very inuitive. I absoltuely cannot
wait.




Josh de Lioncourt
.my other mail provider is an owl.


Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
Music: http://stage19music.com
Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt

On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:



Read.
http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html












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Re: InTouch

[Tiffany D]

I'd like to learn more about them.  Email me offlist so we don't
getway too offtopic. *smile*

On 09/06/2009, ben mustill-rose  wrote:
>
> http://www.handytech.us/ht.html#gwp
>
> On 09/06/2009, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> I'm sorry to rain on your parade, (I'm known for doing that):-) but
>> why reinvent the wheel? There is a device for that other operating
>> system that is little known, called GWP, which is used to convey
>> graphical info to us. The display is bigger than the Optacon one which
>> in my opinion is better, because that smallish display plus the fact
>> that the pins were vibrating all the time made me tired, very tired. I
>> think, but am not sure that it's Handitech that makes this Gwp. If one
>> could make drivers and/or software for the Mac, i think we have what
>> you're looking for.
>> /Krister
>>
>>
>> 9 jun 2009 kl. 05.29 skrev Tiffany D:
>>
>>>
>>> This is very interesting.
>>> From
>>> http://www2.edc.org/ncip/LIBRARY/vi/combo.htm
>>> "inTOUCH (TeleSensory, Inc.)
>>> For Macintosh. A software that works with the Optacon II to provide
>>> tactile access and large print access to the Macintosh computer. As
>>> the mouse is moved, inTOUCH shows the area of the screen around the
>>> cursor on the Optacon display. Features are set from the keyboard.
>>> Other features include: a camera mode that allows the user to switch
>>> from the camera to the computer; a command that stretches the image to
>>> increase legibility; a screen position command that raises a couple of
>>> pins on the Optacon to indicate position of the cursor on the screen.
>>> Price: $400."
>>> I never knew that they upgraded the Opticon so that itcould be used
>>> with a computer, let alone theMacintosh!  Just imagine what would
>>> happen if we could make a modern version and use it with Leopard and
>>> Voiceover.  So would this show you the screen tactually or just
>>> indicate a position on the screen?  This is actually very important,
>>> cause a friend of mine and I are interested in creating something
>>> similar.  Thing is, he's a programmer and not an engineer and we're
>>> both low on cash.  I'm thinking of writing a petition to send to
>>> TeleSensory and maybe even Apple etc about creating a modern version
>>> of the Opticon.  I think that with advances like the IPhone and other
>>> software, the time is right for such a thing.  Granted, things like
>>> the KNFB Reader are amazing and have their place.  But they can't
>>> convey visual information to us in the same manner that feeling images
>>> on a display can.  The remaining opticons aren't getting any newer.
>>> Most of us won't ever get to see with our hands like that unless steps
>>> are taken to insure that technology such as this is brought into the
>>> 21st century.  How many of you, especially students, educators and
>>> those working in relatively graphical environments, would be willing
>>> to sign such a petition?  If there are enough, I'll create a separate
>>> group, comprised of us and other blind and interested parties so we
>>> can getthis thing rolling.  In the meantime, I'll try and track down
>>> the Opticons' creator or his daughter.  Perhaps, they can help.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Eleni
>>>
>>> >
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>
>
> --
> Kind regards, BEN.
>
> email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
> msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
> web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)
>
> >
>

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Re: Emusic download manager?

[Scott Howell]

Hey tell them they really should reconsider and have a look at fixing  
this After all, even Amazon's download manager is fully accessible.  
Maybe if you tell them that, they will listen.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:17 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

>
> I never thought the old one was that bad.  At least I could see the
> list of downloads, clear completed ones, check the status to make sure
> all the files in a set were complete.  That much used to be perfectly
> accessible at any rate.
>
> Ah well...
>
>
> erik burggraaf
> A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
> Phone: 888-255-5194
> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
>
> On 9-Jun-09, at 12:10 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>
>>
>> Yep, they've wrecked it, but at least, I've never seen a version that
>> wasn't wrecked. The last version I had before this one was similarly
>> VO-unfrienldy.
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:04 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys, has any one looked at the new emusic download manager and
>>> thought, "ew" to themselves?  To me it looks like the only thing
>>> in the window besides the menu bar is a vertical scroll bar.  The
>>> only
>>> reason I know anything is happening is because the files are coming
>>> in.  I can live with it, but I was wondering if any one else had
>>> noticed they seem to have recked the interface.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> erik burggraaf
>>> A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
>>> Phone: 888-255-5194
>>> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
>>>
>>>

>>
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 746-4127 or 888-75-BUDDY
>> Create your own economic stimulus package:
>> http://www.powermall.info
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: Emusic download manager?

[Buddy Brannan]

Really? You must've had an older one than I did, or anyway, a  
different one; I could never access any of that stuff!
On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:17 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

>
> I never thought the old one was that bad.  At least I could see the
> list of downloads, clear completed ones, check the status to make sure
> all the files in a set were complete.  That much used to be perfectly
> accessible at any rate.
>
> Ah well...
>
>
> erik burggraaf
> A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
> Phone: 888-255-5194
> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
>
> On 9-Jun-09, at 12:10 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>
>>
>> Yep, they've wrecked it, but at least, I've never seen a version that
>> wasn't wrecked. The last version I had before this one was similarly
>> VO-unfrienldy.
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:04 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys, has any one looked at the new emusic download manager and
>>> thought, "ew" to themselves?  To me it looks like the only thing
>>> in the window besides the menu bar is a vertical scroll bar.  The
>>> only
>>> reason I know anything is happening is because the files are coming
>>> in.  I can live with it, but I was wondering if any one else had
>>> noticed they seem to have recked the interface.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> erik burggraaf
>>> A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
>>> Phone: 888-255-5194
>>> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
>>>
>>>

>>
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 746-4127 or 888-75-BUDDY
>> Create your own economic stimulus package:
>> http://www.powermall.info
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Skype Question

[Robert Carter]

Hi,

Is Skype 2.8 the latest version for the mac? I downloaded and  
installed it from skype.com. When I add a contact, the person that I  
am adding does not see me in their list because skype is not prompting  
me to allow them to see my details. Does anybody know why this isn't  
happening? Any ideas on how to troubleshoot it?

Thanks,

Robert Carter

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Re: Emusic download manager?

[erik burggraaf]

I never thought the old one was that bad.  At least I could see the  
list of downloads, clear completed ones, check the status to make sure  
all the files in a set were complete.  That much used to be perfectly  
accessible at any rate.

Ah well...


erik burggraaf
A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
Phone: 888-255-5194
Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com

On 9-Jun-09, at 12:10 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

>
> Yep, they've wrecked it, but at least, I've never seen a version that
> wasn't wrecked. The last version I had before this one was similarly
> VO-unfrienldy.
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:04 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi guys, has any one looked at the new emusic download manager and
>> thought, "ew" to themselves?  To me it looks like the only thing
>> in the window besides the menu bar is a vertical scroll bar.  The  
>> only
>> reason I know anything is happening is because the files are coming
>> in.  I can live with it, but I was wondering if any one else had
>> noticed they seem to have recked the interface.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> erik burggraaf
>> A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
>> Phone: 888-255-5194
>> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
>>
>>
>>>
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 746-4127 or 888-75-BUDDY
> Create your own economic stimulus package:
> http://www.powermall.info
>
>
> >


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Re: Emusic download manager?

[Buddy Brannan]

Yep, they've wrecked it, but at least, I've never seen a version that  
wasn't wrecked. The last version I had before this one was similarly  
VO-unfrienldy.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 12:04 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

>
> Hi guys, has any one looked at the new emusic download manager and
> thought, "ew" to themselves?  To me it looks like the only thing
> in the window besides the menu bar is a vertical scroll bar.  The only
> reason I know anything is happening is because the files are coming
> in.  I can live with it, but I was wondering if any one else had
> noticed they seem to have recked the interface.
>
> Best,
>
> erik burggraaf
> A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
> Phone: 888-255-5194
> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
>
>
> >

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 746-4127 or 888-75-BUDDY
Create your own economic stimulus package:
http://www.powermall.info


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Scott Howell]

Well I've heard it would be supported, but the question is when. Guess  
I need to call Verizon Wireless. I'm actually do for an upgrade and so  
I might just have to get one as soon as it is available.


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Scott Howell]

Yeah and it wouldn't cost $895, which quite frankly is a bit expensive  
in my opinion. And no, I'm not bashing anyone or Code Factory etc. I  
see the benefits of the software and for some $895 is well worth every  
dime and I can't argue that point. My hope is that maybe other options  
will become available that will be a little less expensive, that's all.
On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:49 AM, Dan Eickmeier wrote:

>
> And what about that gps application that was demonstrated as part of
> the WWDC keynote.  All the developer of that would have to do is make
> that accessible with VO on the iPhone?  I'm assuming?
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Larry Wanger wrote:
>
>>
>> And, you've made the point. You have more choices and the main  
>> drivers
>> behind your decision aren't what's accessible to you in the phone
>> market, its what phone offers you what you need. And that my friend  
>> is
>> what this is all about. You have another choice.
>>
>> Just as an FYI, you don't need iTunes once you get this set up. You
>> need iTunes to get speech and other accessibility functions working  
>> on
>> the phone for sure. But, after that, all bets are off. I know for a
>> fact that there are 3rd party products out there that can allow you  
>> to
>> sync your iPhone without ever using iTunes. In fact, I use one of
>> those 3rd party products to sync up my Samsung right now. So, iTunes
>> is not required.
>>
>> A BRF/Daisey reader, in due time I suspect. I'm sure that will  
>> happen.
>> Like anything else, a developer just needs to step forward and do it.
>>
>> GPS solution for the blind? Who says that MobileGeo couldn't be
>> written for the OS/phone platform? And, like the Windows based  
>> phones,
>> I'm sure that through blue tooth you could use an independent GPS
>> receiver as most of us do now.
>>
>> It is interesting that they don't mention Braille and I wonder about
>> that feature as well. I don't use it but could see that being of
>> value. So, maybe its in the works.
>>
>> However, nothing you've thrown out here seems impossible and, just
>> like everyone else, you have a choice about what platform and phone
>> you use.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:19 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys,  I have to admit, when I read this, the sweat started
>>> pouring
>>> and the hart started thumping.  It was better than my third cup of
>>> coffee in the morning which I'm still looking forward to with some
>>> anticipation, smiles.  Speaking of which, one sec while I go pour  
>>> the
>>> second one...
>>>
>>> OK, So here's why I won't be tossing my mobile speak pocket licence
>>> in
>>> the trash any time soon.
>>>
>>> First, I'm a scronnie, crabbie, and none too good-looking blind man.
>>> An IPhone won't get me more girls, put 10 pounds of muscle on me in
>>> exactly the right preportions, or make me a nicer person.  So forget
>>> it for the time being at least.
>>>
>>> So far, we have no braille display support.  I haven't read anything
>>> about a fully featured gps solution for the IPhone which I have to
>>> have, or a brf reader which I don't have to have, but will use on
>>> ocasion.  So it's really exciting to see the support coming along.
>>> I'd love to fly down to the apple store and play with one for half  
>>> an
>>> hour.  But I really use braille on my phone, and I really use a gps
>>> system, and I won't be replacing my current set up until these
>>> features are tested and true.
>>>
>>> So forgetting all the software you don't get, look at what you do
>>> get...  ITunes.  You need ITunes to sync your calendar and
>>> contacts?  ...seriously?  What happened to ISync?  Forget it.  I
>>> can't
>>> wait to get rid of my IPod, because the software I tried to replace
>>> ITunes for syncing my music doesn't work and I'm sick of the whole
>>> mess.  Why would I want to buy another device that forces me to
>>> ITunes
>>> to sync my calendar and contacts?  No thank you.  ITunes is getting
>>> the old command option delete as soon as this IPod is gone.  Not  
>>> that
>>> I have anything against the IPod. It's a beautiful machine.  My only
>>> problems with it are that it dumps my library every time the battery
>>> dies, and ITunes crashes whenever it tries to sync.  Oh, and ITunes
>>> doesn't update my library properly, and it won't let me change the
>>> settings for ripping/encoding cd's, and it corupts my library every
>>> three months or so and makes me start all over again, and it fills  
>>> my
>>> screen with all kinds of clutter I don't need, and Oh yeh, I
>>> generally
>>> hate being forced into using software that I don't like...  Fwew!
>>>
>>> So basicly I'll wait till I can have the functionality that I have  
>>> on
>>> my I-Paq, especially gps navigation, braille support, and copy and
>>> paste file transfers.
>>>
>>> Another thing the IPhone didn't have previously which I hope they've
>>> fixed now is cdma support. It's got to have cdma support to be  
>>> really
>>> viable here 

Emusic download manager?

[erik burggraaf]

Hi guys, has any one looked at the new emusic download manager and  
thought, "ew" to themselves?  To me it looks like the only thing  
in the window besides the menu bar is a vertical scroll bar.  The only  
reason I know anything is happening is because the files are coming  
in.  I can live with it, but I was wondering if any one else had  
noticed they seem to have recked the interface.

Best,

erik burggraaf
A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
Phone: 888-255-5194
Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Ignasi Cambra]

I might be wrong, but Mac OS X has been around for quite a long time  
now, and it is possible to create Mac compatible apps without using  
the Cocoa framework. This is were I might really be wrong, but from  
what I heard yesterday from the WWDC keynote, and from what I've read,  
developers who make iPhone apps can only use a series of tools  
provided by Apple, with some 1000 API's, to create their software. So  
in such a restricted environment (that is, if I'm still not really  
wrong) shouldn't most apps just work with VO?

Ignasi
On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>
>>
>> HI,
>>
>> YOU ARE MISSING THE FEATURE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO FIX APPLICATIONS THAT
>> ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE.
>
> ...Which I only saw mention of in the OS X section, not in the iPhone
> section. Not to say it won't be possible. And this feature likely
> won't fix apps that simply expose nothing (or very little) to VO in
> the first place.
>
> All that said, my understanding is that iPhone apps, like most modern
> OS X apps, use a common set of development tools and standard
> controls. This should mean that most will be at least somewhat
> accessible from the start. No?
>
>
> >


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Re: safari 4 issue

[Buddy Brannan]

I missed this earlier. Cmd-backspace isn't the right keystroke. And  
command-left arrow has, for me anyway, only worked intermittently. The  
command you want is cmd-left bracket (to the right of the p).

BTW, most keyboard commands for an app can be found in the menus as  
well. Most of the time, anyway.


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Re: Got a new mac mini but have some questions.

[matthew dyer]

Hi,  Everything is working fine now.  thanmk you again.  my next step
is to inport all of my music and contacts as well as files from my pc.

Matthew



On 6/6/09, Charlie Doremus  wrote:
> Correct, power button located in top-right corner on mini just above the
> power cord connection. Good luck and welcome to the world of apple.
> Aloha, Charlie
>
> On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Michael Reiser  wrote:
>
>>
>> The power button is on the top right hand corner.  It's a little small
>> so it'll take a minute to feel it but once you feel it it's easy to
>> spot.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 8:57 AM, matthew dyer wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Hey thamks now I just need to figure out how to power it up.
>> >
>> > On 6/4/09, chantel cuddemi  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi, Matthew,
>> >> I don't believe you will ned sighted help.
>> >> Chantel.
>> >> On Jun 4, 2009, at 9:38 AM, matthew dyer wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Mike,
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks for the keyboard answer.  will I need sited help to figure
>> >>> out
>> >>> what keys to press or how does that work?  I currently have my
>> >>> outlook
>> >>> contacts exported as a csv woindows file.  I did not  see the opsion
>> >>> to export to a pdmf or what ever the extention was that they told
>> >>> me.
>> >>>
>> >>> Matthew
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 6/3/09, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>>  Not sure about importing contacts since I really don't store
>>  those on
>>  my computer but I can heolp with the keyboard question. A usb
>>  windows
>>  keyboard will work fine. When you connect it, the mac will probably
>>  ask you to press certain keys so that it can determine what type of
>>  keyboard you are using. The other thing to keep in mind is, the
>>  windows key on those keyboards will be the command key and the alt
>>  key
>>  will be the option key. Other than that, it should work fine.
>>  On Jun 3, 2009, at 7:51 AM, matthew dyer wrote:
>> 
>> >
>> > Hello everyone.
>> >
>> > Yesterday I finily order my mac mini.  I have a couple of
>> > questions.
>> > First.  I have heard of people using windows keypoards and was
>> > wondering if there was anything needs to be done to get the mac to
>> > reconize it.  If someone could point me in the direction with
>> > that I
>> > would apprisheate it very much.
>> >
>> > Next,  I  would like to find out how to go about inporting all
>> > of my
>> > audio and documents on to the mac as well as my contacts from
>> > outlook.
>> > Can I export to a csv file then inport it into the mac or is
>> > there a
>> > nother format that I should use.
>> >
>> > Matthew
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You can lead a heart to love, but you can't make it fall.
>> >
>> > MSN/e-mail:  ilovecountrymusic...@gmail.com
>> > AIM:  mattdy1
>> > skype: graduater2004.
>> >
>> >>
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> You can lead a heart to love, but you can't make it fall.
>> >>>
>> >>> MSN/e-mail:  ilovecountrymusic...@gmail.com
>> >>> AIM:  mattdy1
>> >>> skype: graduater2004.
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You can lead a heart to love, but you can't make it fall.
>> >
>> > MSN/e-mail:  ilovecountrymusic...@gmail.com
>> > AIM:  mattdy1
>> > skype: graduater2004.
>> >
>> > >
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>
>
> --
> Check out our web site, www.giantdolphin.com and enter for a chance to win
> an ipod shuffle with voice-over.
>
> >
>


-- 
You can lead a heart to love, but you can't make it fall.

MSN/e-mail:  ilovecountrymusic...@gmail.com
AIM:  mattdy1
skype: graduater2004.

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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Ignasi Cambra]

Yeah, it's funny how Apple employees are always so willing to learn  
about VO. None of the ones I've talked to at the store knew how  
VoiceOver works, and some of them thought that it wasn't really usable  
by an actual blind person, yet. Just as a joke, after talking to one  
of them, I turned on VO on an iMac 24 after he left, and opened the  
Microsoft website, right in the middle of the Apple store, full  
screen. He came back laughing and closed Safari. You guys should try  
this sometime...
On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Eliza Cooper wrote:

>
> Jessi and list,
>   I'm totally in the same boat as far as wanting to be one of the
> first.  I never have been the first on the band wagon, but man would
> it be cool!  I have been frequenting the Apple store here in Manhattan
> enough so that the employees are starting to recognize me, so besides
> convincing them that VoiceOver DOES work, it would be great to spend
> some time with an iPhone there and tell them what I think.
>   Eliza
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Jessi and Goldina wrote:
>
>>
>> yeah I know. exactly. although the e71 is pretty sleak too. I'm  
>> really
>> curious to see how the touch screen will work! that's another reason
>> why I want it. I'm a cutting edge kinda girl lol. I wanna be one of
>> the first blind people to pull out my iphone and use a touch screen
>> device!!! it'll be one of those "how do they do it?" moments lol. I'm
>> just so excited about where this is going! I wanna jump in!
>> but I do love my e71 and I just got it in january with a talks
>> upgrade!! so I dunno how I'd get an IPhone. although I'm on the right
>> carrier that has them, so hmmm.
>> On 9-Jun-09, at 1:00 AM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I know exactly what you mean (smiles)
>>> I want the sleekness and I could probably get used to the touch, but
>>> really, if you disregard the touch screen I really don't see many
>>> advantages that would justifie me spending that amount of money.
>>> But it is a i phone.
>>>
>>> On 09/06/2009, Jessi and Goldina  wrote:

 I'm in the same position. I love my e71 to death!!! it's a great
 phone!!! but an IPhone!!! just the thought of it is like wow!
 On 8-Jun-09, at 4:37 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:

>
> I can't diside if I should get one or not.
> The idea of knowing where abouts things are on the screen is a  
> good
> one - i've missed being able to know that since i've lost my site.
> However, I really don't see the advantage of a iphone over my e71.
>
> On 09/06/2009, glenn  wrote:
>> Hello
>> Does anyone know of any demonstration videos showing the addition
>> of
>> Voiceover?
>> Any word whether Voiceover will be available for the ipod touch?
>>
>> Glenn
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Josh de Lioncourt
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm still kind of in shock. This is beyond fantastic news. I'll
>> have to
>> get me an iPhone as soon as I possibly can. This is just
>> tremendous.
>>
>>
>> The description of how it works sounds very inuitive. I  
>> absoltuely
>> cannot
>> wait.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh de Lioncourt
>> …my other mail provider is an owl…
>>
>>
>>
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
>> Music: http://stage19music.com
>> Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
>> Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
>> GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt
>>
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Read.
>> http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Kind regards, BEN.
>
> email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
> msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
> web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)
>
>>


>

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Kind regards, BEN.
>>>
>>> email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
>>> msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
>>> web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Michael Reiser]

It's going to take early adopters to make it better, so I guess we  
should thank those that rush out and get one smiles.

Mike
On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:00 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:

>
> Hi Larry,  I don't think any of it is impossible.  I'd be really
> surprized if it wasn't in the works somewhere already actually.  It's
> going to take really firm development on it to get me to switch.
> Besides, I read oh, 20/30 messages this morning from wow'm zow'm
> enthusiasts who were going to rush right out and buy one.  Some one
> had to step up and say, "Woe...  Hold the phone a minute".
>
> Best,
> erik burggraaf
> A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
> Phone: 888-255-5194
> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
>
> On 9-Jun-09, at 8:44 AM, Larry Wanger wrote:
>
>>
>> And, you've made the point. You have more choices and the main  
>> drivers
>> behind your decision aren't what's accessible to you in the phone
>> market, its what phone offers you what you need. And that my friend  
>> is
>> what this is all about. You have another choice.
>>
>> Just as an FYI, you don't need iTunes once you get this set up. You
>> need iTunes to get speech and other accessibility functions working  
>> on
>> the phone for sure. But, after that, all bets are off. I know for a
>> fact that there are 3rd party products out there that can allow you  
>> to
>> sync your iPhone without ever using iTunes. In fact, I use one of
>> those 3rd party products to sync up my Samsung right now. So, iTunes
>> is not required.
>>
>> A BRF/Daisey reader, in due time I suspect. I'm sure that will  
>> happen.
>> Like anything else, a developer just needs to step forward and do it.
>>
>> GPS solution for the blind? Who says that MobileGeo couldn't be
>> written for the OS/phone platform? And, like the Windows based  
>> phones,
>> I'm sure that through blue tooth you could use an independent GPS
>> receiver as most of us do now.
>>
>> It is interesting that they don't mention Braille and I wonder about
>> that feature as well. I don't use it but could see that being of
>> value. So, maybe its in the works.
>>
>> However, nothing you've thrown out here seems impossible and, just
>> like everyone else, you have a choice about what platform and phone
>> you use.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:19 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys,  I have to admit, when I read this, the sweat started
>>> pouring
>>> and the hart started thumping.  It was better than my third cup of
>>> coffee in the morning which I'm still looking forward to with some
>>> anticipation, smiles.  Speaking of which, one sec while I go pour  
>>> the
>>> second one...
>>>
>>> OK, So here's why I won't be tossing my mobile speak pocket licence
>>> in
>>> the trash any time soon.
>>>
>>> First, I'm a scronnie, crabbie, and none too good-looking blind man.
>>> An IPhone won't get me more girls, put 10 pounds of muscle on me in
>>> exactly the right preportions, or make me a nicer person.  So forget
>>> it for the time being at least.
>>>
>>> So far, we have no braille display support.  I haven't read anything
>>> about a fully featured gps solution for the IPhone which I have to
>>> have, or a brf reader which I don't have to have, but will use on
>>> ocasion.  So it's really exciting to see the support coming along.
>>> I'd love to fly down to the apple store and play with one for half  
>>> an
>>> hour.  But I really use braille on my phone, and I really use a gps
>>> system, and I won't be replacing my current set up until these
>>> features are tested and true.
>>>
>>> So forgetting all the software you don't get, look at what you do
>>> get...  ITunes.  You need ITunes to sync your calendar and
>>> contacts?  ...seriously?  What happened to ISync?  Forget it.  I
>>> can't
>>> wait to get rid of my IPod, because the software I tried to replace
>>> ITunes for syncing my music doesn't work and I'm sick of the whole
>>> mess.  Why would I want to buy another device that forces me to
>>> ITunes
>>> to sync my calendar and contacts?  No thank you.  ITunes is getting
>>> the old command option delete as soon as this IPod is gone.  Not  
>>> that
>>> I have anything against the IPod. It's a beautiful machine.  My only
>>> problems with it are that it dumps my library every time the battery
>>> dies, and ITunes crashes whenever it tries to sync.  Oh, and ITunes
>>> doesn't update my library properly, and it won't let me change the
>>> settings for ripping/encoding cd's, and it corupts my library every
>>> three months or so and makes me start all over again, and it fills  
>>> my
>>> screen with all kinds of clutter I don't need, and Oh yeh, I
>>> generally
>>> hate being forced into using software that I don't like...  Fwew!
>>>
>>> So basicly I'll wait till I can have the functionality that I have  
>>> on
>>> my I-Paq, especially gps navigation, braille support, and copy and
>>> paste file transfers.
>>>
>>> Another thing the IPhone didn't have previously which I h

Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Michael Reiser]

Definitely excited.  Voiceover rocks on this mac and I'm sure it'll  
rock on the iphone.  I'll definitely be looking forward to tutorials  
on it and podcasts.  Also looking forward to snow lepard.

Mike
On Jun 9, 2009, at 9:15 AM, Jessi and Goldina wrote:

>
> yeah I know. exactly. although the e71 is pretty sleak too. I'm really
> curious to see how the touch screen will work! that's another reason
> why I want it. I'm a cutting edge kinda girl lol. I wanna be one of
> the first blind people to pull out my iphone and use a touch screen
> device!!! it'll be one of those "how do they do it?" moments lol. I'm
> just so excited about where this is going! I wanna jump in!
> but I do love my e71 and I just got it in january with a talks
> upgrade!! so I dunno how I'd get an IPhone. although I'm on the right
> carrier that has them, so hmmm.
> On 9-Jun-09, at 1:00 AM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>
>>
>> I know exactly what you mean (smiles)
>> I want the sleekness and I could probably get used to the touch, but
>> really, if you disregard the touch screen I really don't see many
>> advantages that would justifie me spending that amount of money.
>> But it is a i phone.
>>
>> On 09/06/2009, Jessi and Goldina  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm in the same position. I love my e71 to death!!! it's a great
>>> phone!!! but an IPhone!!! just the thought of it is like wow!
>>> On 8-Jun-09, at 4:37 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>>>

 I can't diside if I should get one or not.
 The idea of knowing where abouts things are on the screen is a good
 one - i've missed being able to know that since i've lost my site.
 However, I really don't see the advantage of a iphone over my e71.

 On 09/06/2009, glenn  wrote:
> Hello
> Does anyone know of any demonstration videos showing the addition
> of
> Voiceover?
> Any word whether Voiceover will be available for the ipod touch?
>
>  Glenn
> - Original Message -
> From: Josh de Lioncourt
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:54 PM
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
>
>
>
> I'm still kind of in shock. This is beyond fantastic news. I'll
> have to
> get me an iPhone as soon as I possibly can. This is just
> tremendous.
>
>
> The description of how it works sounds very inuitive. I absoltuely
> cannot
> wait.
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh de Lioncourt
> …my other mail provider is an owl…
>
>
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
> Music: http://stage19music.com
> Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
> Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
> GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>
>
>
>  Read.
>  http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>


 --
 Kind regards, BEN.

 email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
 msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
 web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)

>
>>>
>>>

>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kind regards, BEN.
>>
>> email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
>> msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
>> web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Buddy Brannan]

On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Alex Jurgensen wrote:

>
> HI,
>
> YOU ARE MISSING THE FEATURE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO FIX APPLICATIONS THAT
> ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE.

...Which I only saw mention of in the OS X section, not in the iPhone  
section. Not to say it won't be possible. And this feature likely  
won't fix apps that simply expose nothing (or very little) to VO in  
the first place.

All that said, my understanding is that iPhone apps, like most modern  
OS X apps, use a common set of development tools and standard  
controls. This should mean that most will be at least somewhat  
accessible from the start. No?


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
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To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Buddy Brannan]

On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Michael Reiser wrote:

>
> The new iphone will be supported on varizon, which is cdma.

I've seen you post this assertion twice, but I've seen it announced  
nowhere except in the rumor mill. Care to give some corroborating  
links on this?


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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Eliza Cooper]

Jessi and list,
I'm totally in the same boat as far as wanting to be one of the  
first.  I never have been the first on the band wagon, but man would  
it be cool!  I have been frequenting the Apple store here in Manhattan  
enough so that the employees are starting to recognize me, so besides  
convincing them that VoiceOver DOES work, it would be great to spend  
some time with an iPhone there and tell them what I think.
Eliza


On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Jessi and Goldina wrote:

>
> yeah I know. exactly. although the e71 is pretty sleak too. I'm really
> curious to see how the touch screen will work! that's another reason
> why I want it. I'm a cutting edge kinda girl lol. I wanna be one of
> the first blind people to pull out my iphone and use a touch screen
> device!!! it'll be one of those "how do they do it?" moments lol. I'm
> just so excited about where this is going! I wanna jump in!
> but I do love my e71 and I just got it in january with a talks
> upgrade!! so I dunno how I'd get an IPhone. although I'm on the right
> carrier that has them, so hmmm.
> On 9-Jun-09, at 1:00 AM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>
>>
>> I know exactly what you mean (smiles)
>> I want the sleekness and I could probably get used to the touch, but
>> really, if you disregard the touch screen I really don't see many
>> advantages that would justifie me spending that amount of money.
>> But it is a i phone.
>>
>> On 09/06/2009, Jessi and Goldina  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm in the same position. I love my e71 to death!!! it's a great
>>> phone!!! but an IPhone!!! just the thought of it is like wow!
>>> On 8-Jun-09, at 4:37 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>>>

 I can't diside if I should get one or not.
 The idea of knowing where abouts things are on the screen is a good
 one - i've missed being able to know that since i've lost my site.
 However, I really don't see the advantage of a iphone over my e71.

 On 09/06/2009, glenn  wrote:
> Hello
> Does anyone know of any demonstration videos showing the addition
> of
> Voiceover?
> Any word whether Voiceover will be available for the ipod touch?
>
>  Glenn
> - Original Message -
> From: Josh de Lioncourt
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:54 PM
> Subject: Re: voice over comes to the I phone
>
>
>
>
> I'm still kind of in shock. This is beyond fantastic news. I'll
> have to
> get me an iPhone as soon as I possibly can. This is just
> tremendous.
>
>
> The description of how it works sounds very inuitive. I absoltuely
> cannot
> wait.
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh de Lioncourt
> …my other mail provider is an owl…
>
>
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/Lioncourt
> Music: http://stage19music.com
> Mac-cessibility: http://www.Lioncourt.com
> Blog: http://lioncourtsmusings.blogspot.com
> GoodReads: http://goodreads.com/Lioncourt
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:41 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>
>
>
>  Read.
>  http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>


 --
 Kind regards, BEN.

 email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
 msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
 web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)

>
>>>
>>>

>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kind regards, BEN.
>>
>> email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
>> msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
>> web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
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"MacVisionaries" group.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
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Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Alex Jurgensen]

HI,

YOU ARE MISSING THE FEATURE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO FIX APPLICATIONS THAT  
ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE.

REGARDS,
ALEX,


On 9-Jun-09, at 5:56 AM, ben mustill-rose wrote:

>
> Assuming of course that the developer wants to. Essentially, you'll
> end up with the exact same situation you have on every other platform
> where a screenreader exists, its going to be down to the developers to
> make there applications accessable.
> To be honest, using a touch screen is nice, knowing where abouts
> things are on the screen is nice, but it'll be the developers of the
> third party apps that will diside if the i phone has a strong
> following in the blind communitty or not.
>
>
> On 09/06/2009, Dan Eickmeier  wrote:
>>
>> And what about that gps application that was demonstrated as part of
>> the WWDC keynote.  All the developer of that would have to do is make
>> that accessible with VO on the iPhone?  I'm assuming?
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Larry Wanger wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And, you've made the point. You have more choices and the main  
>>> drivers
>>> behind your decision aren't what's accessible to you in the phone
>>> market, its what phone offers you what you need. And that my  
>>> friend is
>>> what this is all about. You have another choice.
>>>
>>> Just as an FYI, you don't need iTunes once you get this set up. You
>>> need iTunes to get speech and other accessibility functions  
>>> working on
>>> the phone for sure. But, after that, all bets are off. I know for a
>>> fact that there are 3rd party products out there that can allow  
>>> you to
>>> sync your iPhone without ever using iTunes. In fact, I use one of
>>> those 3rd party products to sync up my Samsung right now. So, iTunes
>>> is not required.
>>>
>>> A BRF/Daisey reader, in due time I suspect. I'm sure that will  
>>> happen.
>>> Like anything else, a developer just needs to step forward and do  
>>> it.
>>>
>>> GPS solution for the blind? Who says that MobileGeo couldn't be
>>> written for the OS/phone platform? And, like the Windows based  
>>> phones,
>>> I'm sure that through blue tooth you could use an independent GPS
>>> receiver as most of us do now.
>>>
>>> It is interesting that they don't mention Braille and I wonder about
>>> that feature as well. I don't use it but could see that being of
>>> value. So, maybe its in the works.
>>>
>>> However, nothing you've thrown out here seems impossible and, just
>>> like everyone else, you have a choice about what platform and phone
>>> you use.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:19 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>>>

 Hi guys,  I have to admit, when I read this, the sweat started
 pouring
 and the hart started thumping.  It was better than my third cup of
 coffee in the morning which I'm still looking forward to with some
 anticipation, smiles.  Speaking of which, one sec while I go pour  
 the
 second one...

 OK, So here's why I won't be tossing my mobile speak pocket licence
 in
 the trash any time soon.

 First, I'm a scronnie, crabbie, and none too good-looking blind  
 man.
 An IPhone won't get me more girls, put 10 pounds of muscle on me in
 exactly the right preportions, or make me a nicer person.  So  
 forget
 it for the time being at least.

 So far, we have no braille display support.  I haven't read  
 anything
 about a fully featured gps solution for the IPhone which I have to
 have, or a brf reader which I don't have to have, but will use on
 ocasion.  So it's really exciting to see the support coming along.
 I'd love to fly down to the apple store and play with one for  
 half an
 hour.  But I really use braille on my phone, and I really use a gps
 system, and I won't be replacing my current set up until these
 features are tested and true.

 So forgetting all the software you don't get, look at what you do
 get...  ITunes.  You need ITunes to sync your calendar and
 contacts?  ...seriously?  What happened to ISync?  Forget it.  I
 can't
 wait to get rid of my IPod, because the software I tried to replace
 ITunes for syncing my music doesn't work and I'm sick of the whole
 mess.  Why would I want to buy another device that forces me to
 ITunes
 to sync my calendar and contacts?  No thank you.  ITunes is getting
 the old command option delete as soon as this IPod is gone.  Not  
 that
 I have anything against the IPod. It's a beautiful machine.  My  
 only
 problems with it are that it dumps my library every time the  
 battery
 dies, and ITunes crashes whenever it tries to sync.  Oh, and ITunes
 doesn't update my library properly, and it won't let me change the
 settings for ripping/encoding cd's, and it corupts my library every
 three months or so and makes me start all over again, and it  
 fills my
 screen with all kinds of clutter I don't need, and Oh yeh, I
 

Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[erik burggraaf]

Hi Larry,  I don't think any of it is impossible.  I'd be really  
surprized if it wasn't in the works somewhere already actually.  It's  
going to take really firm development on it to get me to switch.   
Besides, I read oh, 20/30 messages this morning from wow'm zow'm  
enthusiasts who were going to rush right out and buy one.  Some one  
had to step up and say, "Woe...  Hold the phone a minute".

Best,
erik burggraaf
A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
Phone: 888-255-5194
Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com

On 9-Jun-09, at 8:44 AM, Larry Wanger wrote:

>
> And, you've made the point. You have more choices and the main drivers
> behind your decision aren't what's accessible to you in the phone
> market, its what phone offers you what you need. And that my friend is
> what this is all about. You have another choice.
>
> Just as an FYI, you don't need iTunes once you get this set up. You
> need iTunes to get speech and other accessibility functions working on
> the phone for sure. But, after that, all bets are off. I know for a
> fact that there are 3rd party products out there that can allow you to
> sync your iPhone without ever using iTunes. In fact, I use one of
> those 3rd party products to sync up my Samsung right now. So, iTunes
> is not required.
>
> A BRF/Daisey reader, in due time I suspect. I'm sure that will happen.
> Like anything else, a developer just needs to step forward and do it.
>
> GPS solution for the blind? Who says that MobileGeo couldn't be
> written for the OS/phone platform? And, like the Windows based phones,
> I'm sure that through blue tooth you could use an independent GPS
> receiver as most of us do now.
>
> It is interesting that they don't mention Braille and I wonder about
> that feature as well. I don't use it but could see that being of
> value. So, maybe its in the works.
>
> However, nothing you've thrown out here seems impossible and, just
> like everyone else, you have a choice about what platform and phone
> you use.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:19 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi guys,  I have to admit, when I read this, the sweat started  
>> pouring
>> and the hart started thumping.  It was better than my third cup of
>> coffee in the morning which I'm still looking forward to with some
>> anticipation, smiles.  Speaking of which, one sec while I go pour the
>> second one...
>>
>> OK, So here's why I won't be tossing my mobile speak pocket licence  
>> in
>> the trash any time soon.
>>
>> First, I'm a scronnie, crabbie, and none too good-looking blind man.
>> An IPhone won't get me more girls, put 10 pounds of muscle on me in
>> exactly the right preportions, or make me a nicer person.  So forget
>> it for the time being at least.
>>
>> So far, we have no braille display support.  I haven't read anything
>> about a fully featured gps solution for the IPhone which I have to
>> have, or a brf reader which I don't have to have, but will use on
>> ocasion.  So it's really exciting to see the support coming along.
>> I'd love to fly down to the apple store and play with one for half an
>> hour.  But I really use braille on my phone, and I really use a gps
>> system, and I won't be replacing my current set up until these
>> features are tested and true.
>>
>> So forgetting all the software you don't get, look at what you do
>> get...  ITunes.  You need ITunes to sync your calendar and
>> contacts?  ...seriously?  What happened to ISync?  Forget it.  I  
>> can't
>> wait to get rid of my IPod, because the software I tried to replace
>> ITunes for syncing my music doesn't work and I'm sick of the whole
>> mess.  Why would I want to buy another device that forces me to  
>> ITunes
>> to sync my calendar and contacts?  No thank you.  ITunes is getting
>> the old command option delete as soon as this IPod is gone.  Not that
>> I have anything against the IPod. It's a beautiful machine.  My only
>> problems with it are that it dumps my library every time the battery
>> dies, and ITunes crashes whenever it tries to sync.  Oh, and ITunes
>> doesn't update my library properly, and it won't let me change the
>> settings for ripping/encoding cd's, and it corupts my library every
>> three months or so and makes me start all over again, and it fills my
>> screen with all kinds of clutter I don't need, and Oh yeh, I  
>> generally
>> hate being forced into using software that I don't like...  Fwew!
>>
>> So basicly I'll wait till I can have the functionality that I have on
>> my I-Paq, especially gps navigation, braille support, and copy and
>> paste file transfers.
>>
>> Another thing the IPhone didn't have previously which I hope they've
>> fixed now is cdma support. It's got to have cdma support to be really
>> viable here where CDMA is king.  I'm using gsm, and would be more ore
>> less happy with it if my carrier didn't lie to me, price gouge me,  
>> and
>> go behind my back at every turn.  I am counting down the days left on
>> my contract so I can c

Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Krister Ekstrom]

The same thing is about to happento our beloved Symbian. Of all the  
apps i've tried to install on my E66, some have workt partially but  
most have never worked at all, and now, even programs that come with  
the phone, such as Calendar and in some cases the mail app has stopped  
working and i wonder if the screen readers for symbian can or want to  
catch up.
'nough ranting.
/Krister


9 jun 2009 kl. 15.57 skrev Ignasi Cambra:

>
> Well, and the same goes for Windows Mobile. I have tried apps for that
> platform many times which aren't read by Mobile Speak at all.
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:56 AM, ben mustill-rose wrote:
>
>>
>> Assuming of course that the developer wants to. Essentially, you'll
>> end up with the exact same situation you have on every other platform
>> where a screenreader exists, its going to be down to the developers  
>> to
>> make there applications accessable.
>> To be honest, using a touch screen is nice, knowing where abouts
>> things are on the screen is nice, but it'll be the developers of the
>> third party apps that will diside if the i phone has a strong
>> following in the blind communitty or not.
>>
>>
>> On 09/06/2009, Dan Eickmeier  wrote:
>>>
>>> And what about that gps application that was demonstrated as part of
>>> the WWDC keynote.  All the developer of that would have to do is  
>>> make
>>> that accessible with VO on the iPhone?  I'm assuming?
>>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Larry Wanger wrote:
>>>

 And, you've made the point. You have more choices and the main
 drivers
 behind your decision aren't what's accessible to you in the phone
 market, its what phone offers you what you need. And that my
 friend is
 what this is all about. You have another choice.

 Just as an FYI, you don't need iTunes once you get this set up. You
 need iTunes to get speech and other accessibility functions
 working on
 the phone for sure. But, after that, all bets are off. I know for a
 fact that there are 3rd party products out there that can allow
 you to
 sync your iPhone without ever using iTunes. In fact, I use one of
 those 3rd party products to sync up my Samsung right now. So,  
 iTunes
 is not required.

 A BRF/Daisey reader, in due time I suspect. I'm sure that will
 happen.
 Like anything else, a developer just needs to step forward and do
 it.

 GPS solution for the blind? Who says that MobileGeo couldn't be
 written for the OS/phone platform? And, like the Windows based
 phones,
 I'm sure that through blue tooth you could use an independent GPS
 receiver as most of us do now.

 It is interesting that they don't mention Braille and I wonder  
 about
 that feature as well. I don't use it but could see that being of
 value. So, maybe its in the works.

 However, nothing you've thrown out here seems impossible and, just
 like everyone else, you have a choice about what platform and phone
 you use.






 On Jun 9, 2009, at 5:19 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:

>
> Hi guys,  I have to admit, when I read this, the sweat started
> pouring
> and the hart started thumping.  It was better than my third cup of
> coffee in the morning which I'm still looking forward to with some
> anticipation, smiles.  Speaking of which, one sec while I go pour
> the
> second one...
>
> OK, So here's why I won't be tossing my mobile speak pocket  
> licence
> in
> the trash any time soon.
>
> First, I'm a scronnie, crabbie, and none too good-looking blind
> man.
> An IPhone won't get me more girls, put 10 pounds of muscle on me  
> in
> exactly the right preportions, or make me a nicer person.  So
> forget
> it for the time being at least.
>
> So far, we have no braille display support.  I haven't read
> anything
> about a fully featured gps solution for the IPhone which I have to
> have, or a brf reader which I don't have to have, but will use on
> ocasion.  So it's really exciting to see the support coming along.
> I'd love to fly down to the apple store and play with one for
> half an
> hour.  But I really use braille on my phone, and I really use a  
> gps
> system, and I won't be replacing my current set up until these
> features are tested and true.
>
> So forgetting all the software you don't get, look at what you do
> get...  ITunes.  You need ITunes to sync your calendar and
> contacts?  ...seriously?  What happened to ISync?  Forget it.  I
> can't
> wait to get rid of my IPod, because the software I tried to  
> replace
> ITunes for syncing my music doesn't work and I'm sick of the whole
> mess.  Why would I want to buy another device that forces me to
> ITunes
> to sync my calendar and contacts?  No thank you.  ITunes is  
> getting
>

Re: Voiceover and Braille update in Snow Leopard was Re: voice over comes to the I phone

[Jessi and Goldina]

oh I know!!! it's amazing the mac may not be for everybody, but it  
is most certainly for me!!
On 9-Jun-09, at 2:28 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

>
>
> 9 jun 2009 kl. 09.41 skrev Jessi and Goldina:
>
>> oh, such an exciting time to be a mac user!
>
> I couldn't agree more. I'm so glad i jumped on the Mac train when i
> did. I can't believe what Apple is doing for us.
> /Krister
>
> >


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Re: safari 4 issue

[Brandon Misch]

tried that and that doesn't work.

On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Larry Wanger wrote:

>
> Try command with backspace instead.
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Brandon Misch wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey all. i'm having a safari 4 issue. when i try to go back with
>> command left arrow, it doesn't go back like it did in version 3. is
>> there a fix for this?
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: safari 4 issue

[Jessi and Goldina]

yeah, I think it was always command. I've been using that key to go  
back forever!!
On 9-Jun-09, at 5:39 AM, Dan Eickmeier wrote:

>
> Wasn't it always command [?  I've used that keystroke ever since
> Safari 3 actually, noticed that was the shortcut for going back that
> was announced by VO in going through the menus.  So I've always used
> that since Safari 3.
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:35 AM, kaare dehard wrote:
>
>>
>> yep try command [ they've changed the key.
>> On 9-Jun-09, at 12:14 AM, Brandon Misch wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hey all. i'm having a safari 4 issue. when i try to go back with
>>> command left arrow, it doesn't go back like it did in version 3. is
>>> there a fix for this?
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: safari 4 issue

[Jessi and Goldina]

try command left bracket. the one to the right of the p.
On 9-Jun-09, at 7:10 AM, Brandon Misch wrote:

>
> tried that and that doesn't work.
>
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Larry Wanger wrote:
>
>>
>> Try command with backspace instead.
>>
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Brandon Misch wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hey all. i'm having a safari 4 issue. when i try to go back with
>>> command left arrow, it doesn't go back like it did in version 3. is
>>> there a fix for this?
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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