Re: [MBZ] 747

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

‎https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUboPQQk6r0=em

‎https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXDalv7kNQ=em

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlkRE3Jsefo=em

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoTk5670rmQ=em

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] W123 block heater has died

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:44:05 -0500 (EST) Mitch Haley via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Has anybody ever broken a block trying to remove the plug, or does it
> just feel like you're going to rip a hole in the side of the block
> before the plug unscrews? Mitch. 

See my reply of Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:41:03 -0700


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] C130 Wuz: 747

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:30:27 -0600 Peter Frederick via Mercedes
 wrote:

> The C130 is a real horse.
> 
> Emergency takeoff procedure is to hold the nose down and keep it on the
> runway until V2 (flight speed) is reached, then pull back and climb at
> 45 degrees.  I don't know of any other aircraft you can do that with,
> everything else would be out of runway long before it got to V2.
> 
> The amusing thing about them is that they were intended as a stop-gap
> item "until the jets were ready".  I believe they entered service in
> 1954, but I could be wrong  
> 
> For some strange reason they are still in service -- a friend of mine's
> daughter was flying them for the Alaska National Guard before she
> graduated to jets.

They are still in very active service in the regular Air Force, too. A
friend of ours recently graduated from secondary pilot training on
M-130s (a C-130 variant) at Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque and is now
stationed at Cannon AFB in Clovis, NM, for black ops duty with the plane.

http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104517/c-130-hercules/
has a lot of information about the aircraft.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] More on GearWrench

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Nope, these two:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA85590
Gearwrench 5 Pc. Universal Ratcheting SAE Wrench Set
Buy Online Price (USD) $9.99/Set(s) Was $55.49
Contents 5 Combination Ratcheting Wrenches
Includes Gear Wrench Sizes 5/8 in., 9/16 in., 1/2 in., 7/16 in., 3/8 in.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA85895
GEARWRENCH SAE X-Beam Ratcheting Wrench Set
Buy Online Price (USD) $14.99/Set(s) Was $47.99
Contents
5 SAE XL X-Beam Combination Ratcheting Wrenches Includes Gear Wrench
Sizes 3/8 in., 7/16 in., 1/2 in., 9/16 in., 5/8 in.

Just too good a deal to pass up. Tools are never where you need them, now
there will be fewer places where that's true.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 19:49:28 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > Well, that email just cost me $35 . . .
>
> So you bought this one:
>
> > https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA81024
> > Gearwrench Metric & Standard Tool Set
> > Buy Online Price (USD) $29.99/Each Was $66.99
> > Limited Availability
> > Contents1/4 in. Drive 6 Point SAE/Metric Mechanics Tool Set
> > Includes 1/4" Drive Extension   Yes
> > Includes 1/4" Drive Shallow Sockets Yes
> > Includes Carrying Case  Yes
> > Includes Gear Wrench Sizes
> > Full Polish Chrome Metric Sockets 4 mm, 5 mm, 6 mm, 7 mm, 8 mm, 9 mm,
> > 10 mm, 11 mm, 12 mm, 13 mm
> > Piece Count 61
> > Ratchet Set Drive Size  1/4 in.
> > Spinner Handle Type Yes
> > Wrench Type Long Pattern Combination Wrenches 9 mm, 10 mm, 11 mm,
> > 12 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 15 mm
> > Tool Set Size   61 PC.
>
> ?
>
> Craig
>
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-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] W123 block heater has died

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Has anybody ever broken a block trying to remove the plug, or does it just feel 
like you're going to rip a hole in the side of the block before the plug 
unscrews?
Mitch. 

> On November 25, 2017 at 11:36 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> It’s just that the plug has been in the block for so long it’s reluctant to 
> come out under any circumstances. It takes a boatload of torque (hence the 
> need for a long piece of pipe) to break it loose, if possible.  I think I 
> tried and gave up for fear of doing some damage.

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Re: [MBZ] W123 block heater has died

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:21:36 -0600 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I have found the heaters are often not so bad, but the freeze plugs
> take a flame wrench, or a 6' cheater bar, or a LFH (2 lb) and a 15"
> cold chisel and a whole lot of beating with the armstrong impact
> wrench!  (Or all three)

Yes, pulling the freeze plug to put a block heater in is quite a job.
Replacing a block heater, if the cord is good, should be much easier.

When I installed the block heater in our '72 220D/8, I purchased a 3/4"
allen wrench, took the radiator out, put the allen wrench in the hex
recess of the freeze plug and put a long pipe over the end of the allen
wrench (IIRC, it was 8' long).

I lifted the end of the pipe to loosen the freeze plug. It took a lot of
force and lifted the front of the car quite a bit. When it finally broke
loose, it made such a loud crack that I thought the block had broken. I
grabbed a flashlight (it was after dark) and looked. I was very relieved
that the block had not broken and the freeze plug was loose.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] W123 block heater has died

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

It’s just that the plug has been in the block for so long it’s reluctant to 
come out under any circumstances. It takes a boatload of torque (hence the need 
for a long piece of pipe) to break it loose, if possible.  I think I tried and 
gave up for fear of doing some damage.

-D


> On Nov 25, 2017, at 11:28 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> This procedure sounds like it was developed during the Inquisition.
> 
> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have found the heaters are often not so bad, but the freeze plugs take a
>> flame wrench, or a 6' cheater bar, or a LFH (2 lb) and a 15" cold chisel
>> and a whole lot of beating with the armstrong impact wrench!  (Or all three)
>> 
>> Dimitri via Mercedes 
>>> November 25, 2017 at 10:09 PM
>>> I did it once on an OM 615 in a w115 and it was not fun. Used a 6 foot
>>> black iron pipe as a cheater bar!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] C130 Wuz: 747

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

The C130 is a real horse.

Emergency takeoff procedure is to hold the nose down and keep it on the runway 
until V2 (flight speed) is reached, then pull back and climb at 45 degrees.  I 
don't know of any other aircraft you can do that with, everything else would be 
out of runway long before it got to V2.

The amusing thing about them is that they were intended as a stop-gap item 
"until the jets were ready".  I believe they entered service in 1954, but I 
could be wrong  

For some strange reason they are still in service -- a friend of mine's 
daughter was flying them for the Alaska National Guard before she graduated to 
jets.
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Re: [MBZ] W123 block heater has died

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

This procedure sounds like it was developed during the Inquisition.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have found the heaters are often not so bad, but the freeze plugs take a
> flame wrench, or a 6' cheater bar, or a LFH (2 lb) and a 15" cold chisel
> and a whole lot of beating with the armstrong impact wrench!  (Or all three)
>
> Dimitri via Mercedes 
>> November 25, 2017 at 10:09 PM
>> I did it once on an OM 615 in a w115 and it was not fun. Used a 6 foot
>> black iron pipe as a cheater bar!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] W123 block heater has died

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I have found the heaters are often not so bad, but the freeze plugs take 
a flame wrench, or a 6' cheater bar, or a LFH (2 lb) and a 15" cold 
chisel and a whole lot of beating with the armstrong impact wrench!  (Or 
all three)



Dimitri via Mercedes 
November 25, 2017 at 10:09 PM
I did it once on an OM 615 in a w115 and it was not fun. Used a 6 foot 
black iron pipe as a cheater bar!


Sent from my iPhone


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[MBZ] C130 Wuz: 747

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Not a Boeing plane, but a real workhorse designed by guys in white 
shirts and WIDE ties, in  the early 1950s, with slipsticks, is the 
Lockheed C130.   This design is surely older than anyone flying it now 
(in the military) with the first fight on 3 August 1954.


I regularly see them flying and they are still impressive.

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Re: [MBZ] W123 block heater has died

[Dimitri via Mercedes]

I did it once on an OM 615 in a w115 and it was not fun. Used a 6 foot black 
iron pipe as a cheater bar! 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2017, at 10:54 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> While it has been some years, from my experience attempting to change out a 
> block heater on an OM617, it’s a major league PITA that involves a very long 
> piece of pipe as a cheater bar with no guarantees.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>> On Nov 25, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The OEM block heater on my 1983 300TD no longer works.  Is it worth
>> diagnosing/repairing?  Or simpler to just replace it?  Are they a Mercedes
>> part?  Anyone BTDT?
>> 
>> Andrew
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] W123 block heater has died

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Pull off the cord and check it with ohmmeter.   Most of the time the 
cord is bad or gets pulled off the heater.  You can buy a new cord.  
Much easier than changing the heater and antifreeze.



Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
November 25, 2017 at 9:47 PM
The OEM block heater on my 1983 300TD no longer works. Is it worth
diagnosing/repairing? Or simpler to just replace it? Are they a Mercedes
part? Anyone BTDT?



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Re: [MBZ] 747

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Peter wrote:
> ...If you haven't watched the video in slo-mo of the crash, you should.

Please provide a link for this slo-mo?  Anyone?
Very nice discussion, thanks Peter.
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] 747

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

In the days before the first 707 jets the Electra (?) turbo props were the
deluxe models.  There seemed to be a crash every few months so I was quite
nervous on my first flight at the age of 9 IIRC.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 6:11 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The worst scare I've had riding in a plane was a landing in 1974 at
> Louisville, KY in thunderstormy weather.  We were in an Eastern 727 making
> a normal approach when we flew into what I assume was a vertical downdraft,
> aka wind shear.  Plane essentially fell out of the air very close to the
> runway on the port side, felt like free fall.  We were over the pavement,
> so probably weren't more than 20 feet up, but far enough!
>
> Wingtip missed the runway by a foot or two -- I was sitting over the wing
> looking out, and I would swear it should have been torn off.
>
> Had a great pilot, although I didn't know it at the time, as he managed to
> bounce off the port gear without shearing it off.  We hit hard enough that
> I could see the cabin twist, and all the overhead compartments popped open.
>
> Another big bounce on the starboard side, then a bounce on both gears, and
> finally got us down on the runway a very long way down, so the pilot
> applied full brakes and reverse thrust.  Quite the braking event, all the
> passengers were face down in the seat in front of them and crap was sliding
> down the aisle.  A 727 has a VERY short rollout under full braking (so does
> a 747).
>
> I didn't know it at the time, but this is exactly the correct thing to do
> in any of the early 707 fuselage Boeings, especially the 727.  The landing
> gears are a bit weak, and given the rear engine design, electric, fuel, and
> pneumatics are all ripped out when the gear collapses, resulting in very
> serious fires.  The proper procedure is to keep the plane from hitting too
> hard, it's far better to bounce into the air a couple times than to crush a
> landing gear.  Not a fun ride.
>
> We barely made the last taxi exit, but emerged undamaged.  I did get off
> the flight and walk around, as did the pilots in spite of the flight
> continuing to DC National, and the plane was delayed a bit for inspection.
> Otherwise a totally uneventful flight.
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] W123 block heater has died

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

While it has been some years, from my experience attempting to change out a 
block heater on an OM617, it’s a major league PITA that involves a very long 
piece of pipe as a cheater bar with no guarantees.

-D


> On Nov 25, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The OEM block heater on my 1983 300TD no longer works.  Is it worth
> diagnosing/repairing?  Or simpler to just replace it?  Are they a Mercedes
> part?  Anyone BTDT?
> 
> Andrew
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Fw: Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Only works post 1992.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Thanks, I'll plug in The VIN if I get it.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
>
> On November 25, 2017 1:35:51 PM EST, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >http://vehiclehistory.com/
> >
> >> On November 25, 2017 at 1:16 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Mitch, what's that website for free VIN search info?
> >
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[MBZ] W123 block heater has died

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

The OEM block heater on my 1983 300TD no longer works.  Is it worth
diagnosing/repairing?  Or simpler to just replace it?  Are they a Mercedes
part?  Anyone BTDT?

Andrew
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Re: [MBZ] Somebody really needs this

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

And it has FOUR cylinders.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> And people make fun of my CL pictures.
> Mitch.
> > https://easttexas.craigslist.org/cto/d/1986-chrysler-limo/
> 6382765860.html
>
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Re: [MBZ] Do You Know This Part of Charlestown?

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

--FT wrote:
> If I'm in town I'll pop by and say hi to him, send your regards and ask
> about the turntable!

Do it!!  It would be nice to have a sample of their stuff.  Prices
seem expensive but that realm of food stuffs is foreign here.  Your
report of knowing most of their producers is cool!  Small town USA.
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] More on GearWrench

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 19:49:28 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Well, that email just cost me $35 . . .

So you bought this one:

> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA81024
> Gearwrench Metric & Standard Tool Set
> Buy Online Price (USD) $29.99/Each Was $66.99
> Limited Availability
> Contents1/4 in. Drive 6 Point SAE/Metric Mechanics Tool Set
> Includes 1/4" Drive Extension   Yes
> Includes 1/4" Drive Shallow Sockets Yes
> Includes Carrying Case  Yes
> Includes Gear Wrench Sizes
> Full Polish Chrome Metric Sockets 4 mm, 5 mm, 6 mm, 7 mm, 8 mm, 9 mm,
> 10 mm, 11 mm, 12 mm, 13 mm
> Piece Count 61
> Ratchet Set Drive Size  1/4 in.
> Spinner Handle Type Yes
> Wrench Type Long Pattern Combination Wrenches 9 mm, 10 mm, 11 mm,
> 12 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 15 mm
> Tool Set Size   61 PC.

?

Craig

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Re: [MBZ] More on GearWrench

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

You are welcome!  Now your wallet is lighter, you can get around 
faster!  And have some gearwrenches to work  on stuff.



OK Don via Mercedes 
November 25, 2017 at 7:49 PM
Well, that email just cost me $35 . . .

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Craig via Mercedes 





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Re: [MBZ] More on GearWrench

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Well, that email just cost me $35 . . .

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA85590
> Gearwrench 5 Pc. Universal Ratcheting SAE Wrench Set
> Buy Online Price (USD) $9.99/Set(s) Was $55.49
> Contents 5 Combination Ratcheting Wrenches
> Includes Gear Wrench Sizes 5/8 in., 9/16 in., 1/2 in., 7/16 in., 3/8 in.
>
>
> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA81024
> Gearwrench Metric & Standard Tool Set
> Buy Online Price (USD) $29.99/Each Was $66.99
> Limited Availability
> Contents1/4 in. Drive 6 Point SAE/Metric Mechanics Tool Set
> Includes 1/4" Drive Extension   Yes
> Includes 1/4" Drive Shallow Sockets Yes
> Includes Carrying Case  Yes
> Includes Gear Wrench Sizes
> Full Polish Chrome Metric Sockets 4 mm, 5 mm, 6 mm, 7 mm, 8 mm, 9 mm,
> 10 mm, 11 mm, 12 mm, 13 mm
> Piece Count 61
> Ratchet Set Drive Size  1/4 in.
> Spinner Handle Type Yes
> Wrench Type Long Pattern Combination Wrenches 9 mm, 10 mm, 11 mm,
> 12 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 15 mm
> Tool Set Size   61 PC.
>
>
> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA85895
> GEARWRENCH SAE X-Beam Ratcheting Wrench Set
> Buy Online Price (USD) $14.99/Set(s) Was $47.99
> Contents
> 5 SAE XL X-Beam Combination Ratcheting Wrenches Includes Gear Wrench
> Sizes 3/8 in., 7/16 in., 1/2 in., 9/16 in., 5/8 in.
>
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OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] C230 Kompressor

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

It is a fairly ritzy part of town, if the map is right.   Have her join 
and post of the MBCA Hawaii Section Fakebuch page.  I'd guess  one of 
the guys would know who to take it to far a good PPI.  Hope she know how 
to drive with a real transmission.


Woger hated the 4 cyl,(230 Kompresser in particular)  but I have loved 
all the 4 cyl MBs I have had.



Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
November 25, 2017 at 12:25 PM
All:



DIL is looking at a C230 in HNL:



https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/cto/d/must-go-mercedez-car/6388080974.html



Opinions? Thoughts?



Greg



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[MBZ] 1995 E300D FS

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Someone on BW just listed this:

https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/1995-mercedes-w124-e300-diesel/6400702626.html

Looks pretty nice for the $$$.

-D


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Re: [MBZ] 240D exhaust repair

[Dimitri via Mercedes]

No definitely not stainless!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2017, at 5:02 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:
> 
> I think my brother had put stainless on it?
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
>> On Nov 25, 2017 9:02 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes"  
>> wrote:
>> I'm trying to remember but I don't think I ever did any exhaust work on that 
>> car which I think makes it the only car I ever owned that didn't need 
>> exhaust work...
>> Curt
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>> 
>>   On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Dimitri via 
>> Mercedes wrote:   Wow! 22 years of patch jobs, now 
>> that’s impressive! Might take you up on the resonator and muffler offer! The 
>> last exhaust I repaired was on the 240 that Curt gave me (formerly 
>> Dwight’s)-the one with the head issue. I repaired the muffler and resonator 
>> with sheet metal as well as replacing a good amount of the pipes. Whole 
>> thing cost me $90 in parts from flaps that I pieced together. It fit better 
>> than an OE exhaust as I pretty much tailored it to car!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Nov 24, 2017, at 6:48 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > Nice work!  (as always)  I broke down and put new exhaust on both 240Ds.  
>> > From crockauto the price is not so bad  I patched the exhaust on the 
>> > 81 for 22 years.  the front pipe kept rotting away.  Methinks it was a 
>> > flaps replacement sometime, while the rest was original.  I have a good 
>> > muffler, and a good resonator in the shed.  If you ever need either, you 
>> > could weld them on.
>> >
>> >> Dimitri via Mercedes 
>> >> November 24, 2017 at 4:49 PM
>> >> So the entire exhaust with the exception of the front pipe fell off one 
>> >> of my 240Ds last November while driving locally. I pulled over, picked it 
>> >> off the road and ratchet strapped it to the roof rack. I drove the car 
>> >> sans exhaust for the remainder of the winter- neighbors loved me! As I 
>> >> was busy with a massive rental property renovation, I had no time until 
>> >> now to deal with it. Basically the pipe rotted at the flange where the 
>> >> front pipe and remainder of exhaust attach.
>> >> I bought a section pipe slightly wider than the exhaust, cut off rotted 
>> >> flange and welded it on, effectively creating a new flange. I then bought 
>> >> a new front pipe from Rockauto for a whopping $20. So for a grand total 
>> >> of $35 including shipping, new “flange”, and new clamp, I effected a 
>> >> permanent and high quality repair!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] 747

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

The worst scare I've had riding in a plane was a landing in 1974 at Louisville, 
KY in thunderstormy weather.  We were in an Eastern 727 making a normal 
approach when we flew into what I assume was a vertical downdraft, aka wind 
shear.  Plane essentially fell out of the air very close to the runway on the 
port side, felt like free fall.  We were over the pavement, so probably weren't 
more than 20 feet up, but far enough!

Wingtip missed the runway by a foot or two -- I was sitting over the wing 
looking out, and I would swear it should have been torn off.

Had a great pilot, although I didn't know it at the time, as he managed to 
bounce off the port gear without shearing it off.  We hit hard enough that I 
could see the cabin twist, and all the overhead compartments popped open.

Another big bounce on the starboard side, then a bounce on both gears, and 
finally got us down on the runway a very long way down, so the pilot applied 
full brakes and reverse thrust.  Quite the braking event, all the passengers 
were face down in the seat in front of them and crap was sliding down the 
aisle.  A 727 has a VERY short rollout under full braking (so does a 747).

I didn't know it at the time, but this is exactly the correct thing to do in 
any of the early 707 fuselage Boeings, especially the 727.  The landing gears 
are a bit weak, and given the rear engine design, electric, fuel, and 
pneumatics are all ripped out when the gear collapses, resulting in very 
serious fires.  The proper procedure is to keep the plane from hitting too 
hard, it's far better to bounce into the air a couple times than to crush a 
landing gear.  Not a fun ride.

We barely made the last taxi exit, but emerged undamaged.  I did get off the 
flight and walk around, as did the pilots in spite of the flight continuing to 
DC National, and the plane was delayed a bit for inspection.  Otherwise a 
totally uneventful flight.



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Re: [MBZ] 240D exhaust repair

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

I think my brother had put stainless on it?

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Nov 25, 2017 9:02 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> I'm trying to remember but I don't think I ever did any exhaust work on
> that car which I think makes it the only car I ever owned that didn't need
> exhaust work...
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   Wow! 22 years of patch jobs, now that’s
> impressive! Might take you up on the resonator and muffler offer! The last
> exhaust I repaired was on the 240 that Curt gave me (formerly Dwight’s)-the
> one with the head issue. I repaired the muffler and resonator with sheet
> metal as well as replacing a good amount of the pipes. Whole thing cost me
> $90 in parts from flaps that I pieced together. It fit better than an OE
> exhaust as I pretty much tailored it to car!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 24, 2017, at 6:48 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Nice work!  (as always)  I broke down and put new exhaust on both
> 240Ds.  From crockauto the price is not so bad  I patched the exhaust
> on the 81 for 22 years.  the front pipe kept rotting away.  Methinks it was
> a flaps replacement sometime, while the rest was original.  I have a good
> muffler, and a good resonator in the shed.  If you ever need either, you
> could weld them on.
> >
> >> Dimitri via Mercedes 
> >> November 24, 2017 at 4:49 PM
> >> So the entire exhaust with the exception of the front pipe fell off one
> of my 240Ds last November while driving locally. I pulled over, picked it
> off the road and ratchet strapped it to the roof rack. I drove the car sans
> exhaust for the remainder of the winter- neighbors loved me! As I was busy
> with a massive rental property renovation, I had no time until now to deal
> with it. Basically the pipe rotted at the flange where the front pipe and
> remainder of exhaust attach.
> >> I bought a section pipe slightly wider than the exhaust, cut off rotted
> flange and welded it on, effectively creating a new flange. I then bought a
> new front pipe from Rockauto for a whopping $20. So for a grand total of
> $35 including shipping, new “flange”, and new clamp, I effected a permanent
> and high quality repair!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] More on GearWrench

[Craig via Mercedes]

I missed some in the electronic flyer:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA85206
Reserve Online Price (USD) $49.99 /Each
# Points on Wrench  12
Contents
7 Metric Reversible Stubby Ratcheting Wrenches Ratcheting
SAE & Metric
Wrench Finish   Full Polish Chrome
Wrench Set Piece Count  14
Wrench SizesSAE - 3/8, 7/16, 1/2, 9/16, 5/8, 11/16, 3/4 MET -
10mm, 11mm, 12mm, 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, 18mm
Wrench Type Combination Ratcheting Wrench - Stubby


https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA35720
Gearwrench 20 PC. SAE/Metric Ratcheting Combination Wrench Set
Reserve Online Price (USD) $54.99 /Each 
# Points on Wrench  12
Contents  10 SAE Ratcheting Wrenches, 10 Metric Ratcheting Wrenches
Includes Gear Wrench Sizes  1/4 in., 5/16 in., 11/32 in., 3/8 in.,
7/16 in., 1/2 in., 9/16 in., 5/8 in., 11/16 in., 3/4 in., 6 mm, 8 mm,
10 mm, 12 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 15 mm, 16 mm, 17 mm, 18 mm


https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA39327
Gearwrench 32 PC. Standard & Stubby SAE / Metric Ratcheting Combination
Wrench Set
Reserve Online Price (USD) $89.99 /Each
Wrench Sizes
SAE - 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, 1/2, 9/16, 5/8, 11/16, 3/4, 13/16
Metric - 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17
SAE Stubby - 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, 1/2, 9/16
Metric Stubby - 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15


All these came from the "PRO TOOLS SALES FLYER" on the page
https://www.napaonline.com/en/cyber-monday?cid=EMAIL-2017_11_24_CyberMondayTeaser-Rewards-HERO2_CTA_medium=EMAIL_campaign=2017_11_24_CyberMondayTeaser-Rewards_source=HERO2_CTA


Craig

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[MBZ] More on GearWrench

[Craig via Mercedes]

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA85590
Gearwrench 5 Pc. Universal Ratcheting SAE Wrench Set
Buy Online Price (USD) $9.99/Set(s) Was $55.49
Contents 5 Combination Ratcheting Wrenches
Includes Gear Wrench Sizes 5/8 in., 9/16 in., 1/2 in., 7/16 in., 3/8 in.


https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA81024
Gearwrench Metric & Standard Tool Set
Buy Online Price (USD) $29.99/Each Was $66.99
Limited Availability
Contents1/4 in. Drive 6 Point SAE/Metric Mechanics Tool Set
Includes 1/4" Drive Extension   Yes
Includes 1/4" Drive Shallow Sockets Yes
Includes Carrying Case  Yes
Includes Gear Wrench Sizes
Full Polish Chrome Metric Sockets 4 mm, 5 mm, 6 mm, 7 mm, 8 mm, 9 mm,
10 mm, 11 mm, 12 mm, 13 mm
Piece Count 61
Ratchet Set Drive Size  1/4 in.
Spinner Handle Type Yes
Wrench Type Long Pattern Combination Wrenches 9 mm, 10 mm, 11 mm,
12 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 15 mm
Tool Set Size   61 PC.


https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/APA85895
GEARWRENCH SAE X-Beam Ratcheting Wrench Set
Buy Online Price (USD) $14.99/Set(s) Was $47.99
Contents
5 SAE XL X-Beam Combination Ratcheting Wrenches Includes Gear Wrench
Sizes 3/8 in., 7/16 in., 1/2 in., 9/16 in., 5/8 in.

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Re: [MBZ] Fw: Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Thanks, I'll plug in The VIN if I get it.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On November 25, 2017 1:35:51 PM EST, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>http://vehiclehistory.com/
>
>> On November 25, 2017 at 1:16 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes
> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Mitch, what's that website for free VIN search info?
>
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Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Well said.i too am out of driveway & spousal space.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Nov 25, 2017 1:53 PM, "Fred Moir via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Mx.
>
> If I could store it, you would never have seen it!
>
> Fred.
>
>
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
>
>
> 
> From: Mercedes  on behalf of Max Dillon
> via Mercedes 
> Sent: 25 November 2017 11:59
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Max Dillon
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
>
> Yes, someone should get it and store it for me until the Chowda-Q next
> fall, then we can make a road trip and drag it back.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Mx.

If I could store it, you would never have seen it!

Fred.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes  on behalf of Max Dillon via 
Mercedes 
Sent: 25 November 2017 11:59
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Max Dillon
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

Yes, someone should get it and store it for me until the Chowda-Q next fall, 
then we can make a road trip and drag it back.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] C230 Kompressor

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

I've heard they are pretty decent, the engine is solid.  Fuel efficient but 
plenty of power.  That manual transmission would be a bonus in my book.  As 
always, need documents for maintenance and repairs.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On November 25, 2017 1:25:01 PM EST, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>All:
>
> 
>
>DIL is looking at a C230 in HNL:
>
> 
>
>https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/cto/d/must-go-mercedez-car/6388080974.html
>
> 
>
>Opinions? Thoughts?
>
> 
>
>Greg
>
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Re: [MBZ] Fw: Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I'm hoping he's selling it for parts, not that it has a parts only, 
nonrepairable or scrap title. Parts only titled cars shouldn't be found in the 
wild, it's illegal to sell them to anybody who doesn't have a scrap metal 
dealer or auto dismantler license, at least here in Michigan. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Fw: Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

http://vehiclehistory.com/

> On November 25, 2017 at 1:16 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Mitch, what's that website for free VIN search info?

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[MBZ] C230 Kompressor

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

All:

 

DIL is looking at a C230 in HNL:

 

https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/cto/d/must-go-mercedez-car/6388080974.html

 

Opinions? Thoughts?

 

Greg

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Re: [MBZ] Fw: Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Mitch, what's that website for free VIN search info?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On November 25, 2017 1:12:00 PM EST, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>If you check it out, ask to look at the title. 
>If it's parts only, Max might have real trouble putting it back on the
>road unless he wants to pretend he just repainted the White Whale. 
>Mitch. 
>
>> On November 25, 2017 at 11:41 AM Fred Moir via Mercedes
> wrote:
>> 
>> It's about an hour north.
>> 
>> With some notice, I could visit.
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Fw: Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

If you check it out, ask to look at the title. 
If it's parts only, Max might have real trouble putting it back on the road 
unless he wants to pretend he just repainted the White Whale. 
Mitch. 

> On November 25, 2017 at 11:41 AM Fred Moir via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> It's about an hour north.
> 
> With some notice, I could visit.
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT Jag Diesel

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

That's funny!
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On November 25, 2017 7:05:37 AM EST, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>My buddy who lives in England posted this on his FB:
>I started my car this morning, it was frosty, so I waited a few minutes
>to clear the windscreen. A minute or two later I was engulfed in a
>thick cloud of white diesel smoke. I thought the car was on fire.
>Called the AA who arrived 15 minutes later. (Good service!). The AA man
>was on the ball. Apparently these diesel jags have a Webasto fuel
>heater that clogs up in the summer. So for the first few starts in the
>first cold snap all this gunk burns off. Nothing to worry about. Now
>that I’ve changed my underpants I can relax. 
>
>--R
>Sent from iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Great idea- not sure who has a space.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Nov 25, 2017 11:59 AM, "Max Dillon via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Yes, someone should get it and store it for me until the Chowda-Q next
> fall, then we can make a road trip and drag it back.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
>
> On November 25, 2017 11:23:13 AM EST, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >Yeah Max needs that
> >
> >--FT
> >
> >
> >On 11/25/17 9:05 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Would that be close to you Fred?  Have time to look at it?  That's
> >what I need, if his description is accurate.
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Fw: Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Yes it does look familiar

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Nov 25, 2017 11:57 AM, "Max Dillon via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Ok, thanks for the offer.  I've asked the seller for more pix and info, no
> response yet.
>
> I remember this car, the front bumper is not original and looks like some
> faux AMG thing.  Anyone else recall it?  Maybe Fred posted this before?
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
>
> On November 25, 2017 11:41:37 AM EST, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >From: Fred Moir 
> >Sent: 25 November 2017 09:42
> >To: Max Dillon
> >Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
> >
> >
> >Max.
> >
> >It's about an hour north.
> >
> >With some notice, I could visit.
> >
> >Let me know.
> >
> >Fred
> >
> >
> >Fred Moir.
> >Lynn MA.
> >Diesel preferred.
> >
> >
> >
> >From: Mercedes  on behalf of Max Dillon
> >via Mercedes 
> >Sent: 25 November 2017 09:05
> >To: Mercedes Discussion List
> >Cc: Max Dillon
> >Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
> >
> >Would that be close to you Fred?  Have time to look at it?  That's what
> >I need, if his description is accurate.
> >--
> >Max Dillon
> >Charleston SC
> >'87 300TD
> >'95 E300
> >
> >>1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
> >>
> >>https://nh.craigslist.org/cto/6388735583.html
> >___
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] How bad would you have to overhear at 617 that would cause it not to start?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

After dark, heavy pre-Christmas traffic. I had to leave it running another 
minute or so to get safely off the highway.It ran for another 4 months or so 
before it really manifested a problem.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 10:23 AM, tyee165 wrote:   I would 
have thought you would see a trail of smoke behind you and have smelled coolant 
before it got hot enough to do damage


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 Date: 2017-11-25 7:57 AM (GMT-06:00) To: 
mercedes@okiebenz.com, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  
Cc: Curt Raymond  Subject: Re: [MBZ] How bad would you 
have to overhear at 617 that would  cause it not to start? 
I had the lower radiator hose clamp break while in the fast lane in heavy 
traffic at 75mph. My first hint something was wrong was when the car smelled 
hot. I looked and the gauge was pegged.I got us off the highway quick but the 
damage was done...That was a 240D, apparently Dimitri's buddy still drives it 
with the thermostat forced open...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Randy Bennell via 
Mercedes wrote:   Only if one was dumb enough to keep on 
driving it until it seized up. 
The blown rad or hose would be obvious so very little excuse for further 
abuse to the engine.

RB

On 24/11/2017 2:23 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> The plastic radiator necks deteriorated and snapped off.  POOF!
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> And I thought those old 617’s were almost indestructible
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 24, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> If it overheated by being driven w/o coolant, then the engine is most
>>> likely toast.  My son did this to two (2) W126 300SDs
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:36 PM, ROGER HALE via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
 Floyd,

    


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Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Yes, someone should get it and store it for me until the Chowda-Q next fall, 
then we can make a road trip and drag it back.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On November 25, 2017 11:23:13 AM EST, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Yeah Max needs that
>
>--FT
>
>
>On 11/25/17 9:05 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
>> Would that be close to you Fred?  Have time to look at it?  That's
>what I need, if his description is accurate.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Fw: Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Ok, thanks for the offer.  I've asked the seller for more pix and info, no 
response yet.

I remember this car, the front bumper is not original and looks like some faux 
AMG thing.  Anyone else recall it?  Maybe Fred posted this before?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On November 25, 2017 11:41:37 AM EST, Fred Moir via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>From: Fred Moir 
>Sent: 25 November 2017 09:42
>To: Max Dillon
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
>
>
>Max.
>
>It's about an hour north.
>
>With some notice, I could visit.
>
>Let me know.
>
>Fred
>
>
>Fred Moir.
>Lynn MA.
>Diesel preferred.
>
>
>
>From: Mercedes  on behalf of Max Dillon
>via Mercedes 
>Sent: 25 November 2017 09:05
>To: Mercedes Discussion List
>Cc: Max Dillon
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
>
>Would that be close to you Fred?  Have time to look at it?  That's what
>I need, if his description is accurate.
>--
>Max Dillon
>Charleston SC
>'87 300TD
>'95 E300
>
>>1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
>>
>>https://nh.craigslist.org/cto/6388735583.html
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Re: [MBZ] Nice W140

[LarryT via Mercedes]

It's a shame it's black - never my favorite color choice.  If it were 
silver or white ...

LarryT
91 300D

On 11/25/2017 10:40 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:

Opinions are like...

$8100, about $7500 out of my price range.

--FT


On 11/24/17 2:44 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

That is one butt-ugly car IMHO.

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


If you were looking for a really nice W140, this is the one to get:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/282740244985?rmvSB=true

Grand Edition.  Very well appointed.

-D



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[MBZ] Fw: Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

From: Fred Moir 
Sent: 25 November 2017 09:42
To: Max Dillon
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)


Max.

It's about an hour north.

With some notice, I could visit.

Let me know.

Fred


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes  on behalf of Max Dillon via 
Mercedes 
Sent: 25 November 2017 09:05
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Max Dillon
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

Would that be close to you Fred?  Have time to look at it?  That's what I need, 
if his description is accurate.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

>1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
>
>https://nh.craigslist.org/cto/6388735583.html
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Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Yeah Max needs that

--FT


On 11/25/17 9:05 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Would that be close to you Fred?  Have time to look at it?  That's what I need, 
if his description is accurate.



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Re: [MBZ] 747

[MG via Mercedes]

I don't know. It started the landing straight on and then turned 
sideways. First one way and then the other a couple of times. 
Reminded me of the skids I had done in the car at one time or 
another. It was mid Dec in New York so I figure the runway was a 
bit icy. It was quite cold out when we walked to the car.


archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:

Wilton once wrote that the landing gear on a BUFF could be turned so the plane 
could land partially sideways. I wonder if the 747 might have the same feature? 
Wilton might know.
Gerry

MG wrote:
Hah! I got to go down the runway sideways on one during a 
landing. That was fun!


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


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Re: [MBZ] Somebody really needs this

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

And people make fun of my CL pictures. 
Mitch.
> https://easttexas.craigslist.org/cto/d/1986-chrysler-limo/6382765860.html

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Re: [MBZ] 747

[as.thompson--- via Mercedes]

Good summary Peter. 

Two additional points - 1. there were four pilots on board and no one called 
out the throttles and 2. the TRACON cleared them for the approach but 
instructed them to maintain 180 knots until 5 miles from the runway and they 
were actually at 192/193 until 4 miles out. (normally you should be stabilized 
on speed/on glide slope at 4 to 5 miles).

Regards,
Addison Thompson
Retired Boeing Test Pilot


On November 24, 2017, Peter Frederick wrote:

Yup.

The cause of the accident is fairly complex though.

The principle cause, although this is not widely addressed, is that air traffic 
control at SF is notorious for giving final landing authorization long after 
the aircraft is past the initial point in the glide slope.  It's bad enough 
that "go arounds" are quite common since it's dangerous to descend at high 
rates of altitude loss during final approach.

What happened with the 777 was that late authorization was given, so the plane 
was well above the proper glide slope altitude but committed to landing.  The 
pilot selected "flight change mode" for the autopilot to allow a fairly steep 
drop down the the proper glide slope, and forgot that that particular setting 
disables the auto-throttles on the engines.  I believe it's intended for fully 
manual flight, but someone with more knowledge would have to chime in on that, 
I'm reporting what I gleaned form a variety of on line discussions.

Since the autothrottles were disabled, and the autopilot does NOT report that 
when "flight change mode" is selected, when the aircraft entered final approach 
near the end to  the runway, the engines did not spool up and it descended 
faster than normal and may have stalled, then hit the seawall.

The pilot was in fact not very experienced with the 777, but the ALPA has 
complained to Boeing quite a bit about that flight system according to the 
pilots posting on forums.  The causes of the accident were pretty well agreed 
on by 777 pilots within a couple days, as many of them had been caught unaware 
by the "flight change mode", and most US airlines seem to train more for that 
issue, it's deadly on final approach and should never be used while landing.  I 
don't know how clear this is in the flight manuals or in the training Asiana 
gave it's pilots.

However, my personal take on this is that while improper training or improper 
use of "flight change mode" was the direct cause of the accident, the 777, like 
all modern computer controlled aircraft, will land itself quite nicely in the 
conditions at SF that day, but because the delay in final landing approval 
caused the aircraft to be seriously out of position when final approach was 
initiated, the pilots had to use unusual measures to get on the glide slope.  
High rates of descent in heavy jet aircraft with swept wings is ALWAYS a risk 
near the ground, it takes quite a bit of engine power to halt the descent, and 
it takes about 8 seconds to get full power out of a high bipass engine when it 
is initially in idle.  There were several bad accidents in the 60's in 727s for 
this reason -- you can drop one of those birds at 10,000 ft per minute, but you 
better put the power on fast when you want to slow that rate.  They don't 
bounce very well.

Safety isn't about punishing people for making errors, it's about eliminating 
the cause for errors and preventing unintended actions.  Yes, the pilot made a 
serious error, but the only reason he did is that ATC failed to authorize 
descent until he was 1000 ft above the upper limit of the glide slope.  

One could also question why an altitude change mode would disable autothrottles 
as well -- it's sort of like a cruise control that disconnects if you change 
lanes as far as I can tell.  At the very least, the pilot should be visually 
and audibly warned that autothrottles are disabled.  It's not possible to spool 
a turbofan engine up fast enough in this scenario.

The good thing is that the 777 is an amazingly tough aircraft.  If you haven't 
watched the video in slo-mo of the crash, you should.  it's not very clear, but 
it is obvious that the aircraft very nearly stood on it's nose after the 
impact, but the fuselage stayed intact.  A very similar accident at Boston 
Logan with a 727 in the early 70's resulted in nearly complete disintegration 
of the airframe

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Re: [MBZ] 747

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Yeah they got that one guy's name long, it is Ho Ree Fook

To be fair that was the weekend news babe stand-in, she dint no nuffin, 
and the newswriter was probably messin with her too.


--FT


On 11/24/17 3:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
You would think that the news people would have looked at the "names" 
and seen the joke but they apparently did get the infomation from what 
should have been a good reliable source so they just paid no attention.
It is very easy to be complacent and fail to check things out for 
yourself.


RB

On 24/11/2017 2:21 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
I practically soil myself laughing every time I see this.  From a 
professional standpoint, these people will never, ever get to live 
this down.


-D


On Nov 24, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
 wrote:



‎‎Is that the one that hit the seawall?


Yep.
Bang Ding Ow
Wi Tu Low
Sum Ting Wong
Ho Lee Fuk
Were the crew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtxds204ZMI=em

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Nice W140

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Opinions are like...

$8100, about $7500 out of my price range.

--FT


On 11/24/17 2:44 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

That is one butt-ugly car IMHO.

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


If you were looking for a really nice W140, this is the one to get:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/282740244985?rmvSB=true

Grand Edition.  Very well appointed.

-D



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Re: [MBZ] Do You Know This Part of Charlestown?

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Yes I know it very well.  We did the tour last year for my birthday, 
they had some special stuff going, which I put in an order for as it was 
limited release.  Had some of their rum (Lowcountry Agricole) the other 
evening (all of it!  gotta get another bottle) that they made with my 
neighbor Sidi's cane.  It is VERY good.  They also have a watermelon 
brandy they made last year, small batch, they made with his 
watermelons.  Quite fiery stuff but it has the taste of the melons.  I 
have some of their apple brandy from last year that is quite tasty, used 
heirloom apples from NC for that batch.  They have sorghum whiskey too 
that isn't very good, they only age it for a coupla years so it is a bit 
rough but OK enough I guess.  I think they might have got the sorghum 
from Sidi too, I'll have to ask him.  Their gin is nice This year they 
made some Jinny Red Corn whiskey, limited batch, they got the corn from 
the Geechee Boy, this guy named Greg from Edisto Island who makes grits, 
he got the seed corn from a guy who resurrected it from a few seeds they 
found.  He also made some grits from it, I have to try to get some.  He 
is good buddies with Sidi and my other friend who is a farmer here, he 
brings his stuff to the farmstand at the end of the driveway of the vast 
estate. He's a really nice guy too. They bottled the whiskey in some 
fancy bottles and were charging a premium for it, I didn't need the 
bottle so passed on it.  I don't know if they have any in a regular 
bottle or not, will check.


If I'm in town I'll pop by and say hi to him, send your regards and ask 
about the turntable!  The tour was fun, there were only a few people and 
we got to chatting up the girl doing the pours, so she was particularly 
good to us... (which might have been a bit detrimental to my 
coordination abilities...)


--FT


On 11/24/17 12:04 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote:

A guy from the Frank list - tell us about Frank again, D. - Chris Jude
became the brewmaster at this place recently.  His previous distillery
was in Asheville.  He took my 1972 AR-XA turntable.  Maybe --RT & Max
can do the tour there and let him give you some nice samples?  Say
"hi" from DanG.

http://www.thirstysouth.com/2016/03/29/highwire-distilling-rum-brandy/

http://southerndistillingnews.com/distillery-tours-2/distillery-tour-high-wire-distilling-company/

mao

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Re: [MBZ] How bad would you have to overhear at 617 that would cause it not to start?

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

I would have thought you would see a trail of smoke behind you and have smelled 
coolant before it got hot enough to do damage


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 Date: 2017-11-25  7:57 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: 
mercedes@okiebenz.com, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  
Cc: Curt Raymond  Subject: Re: [MBZ] How bad would you 
have to overhear at 617 that would
  cause it not to start? 
I had the lower radiator hose clamp break while in the fast lane in heavy 
traffic at 75mph. My first hint something was wrong was when the car smelled 
hot. I looked and the gauge was pegged.I got us off the highway quick but the 
damage was done...That was a 240D, apparently Dimitri's buddy still drives it 
with the thermostat forced open...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Randy Bennell via 
Mercedes wrote:   Only if one was dumb enough to keep on 
driving it until it seized up. 
The blown rad or hose would be obvious so very little excuse for further 
abuse to the engine.

RB

On 24/11/2017 2:23 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> The plastic radiator necks deteriorated and snapped off.  POOF!
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> And I thought those old 617’s were almost indestructible
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 24, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> If it overheated by being driven w/o coolant, then the engine is most
>>> likely toast.  My son did this to two (2) W126 300SDs
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:36 PM, ROGER HALE via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
 Floyd,

    


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Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

Rent a car hauler trailer and drag it home.


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Curley McLain via Mercedes 
 Date: 2017-11-24  5:43 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List  Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124) 
SWMBO might like that!  Too bad it would cost more to get it here than 
to buy the car.

> Fred Moir via Mercedes 
> November 24, 2017 at 4:25 PM
> ?
>
>
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
>
>
> 
> From: nore...@craigslist.org 
> Sent: 24 November 2017 17:21
> To: fredh.s...@hotmail.com
> Subject: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
>
>
> fredy4.s...@yahoo.com forwarded you this from craigslist:
>
> 
> 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
>
> https://nh.craigslist.org/cto/6388735583.html
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Re: [MBZ] Darn Tough

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Best socks in the world. I have a pair on right now.I was thinking I had made a 
blog post but I can't find it. Maybe I'll make another.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 10:00 PM, Mitch Haley via 
Mercedes wrote:   Are these the socks Curt was talking 
about last year?
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/11/jeremy-s/because-shooters-need-socks-too-darn-tough-socks/

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Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Would that be close to you Fred?  Have time to look at it?  That's what I need, 
if his description is accurate.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On November 24, 2017 5:25:50 PM EST, Fred Moir via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>?
>
>
>Fred Moir.
>Lynn MA.
>Diesel preferred.
>
>
>
>From: nore...@craigslist.org 
>Sent: 24 November 2017 17:21
>To: fredh.s...@hotmail.com
>Subject: 1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
>
>
>fredy4.s...@yahoo.com forwarded you this from craigslist:
>
>
>1995 Mercedes e320 estate (w124)
>
>https://nh.craigslist.org/cto/6388735583.html
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Re: [MBZ] 240D exhaust repair

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I'm trying to remember but I don't think I ever did any exhaust work on that 
car which I think makes it the only car I ever owned that didn't need exhaust 
work...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes 
wrote:   Wow! 22 years of patch jobs, now that’s impressive! Might take you up 
on the resonator and muffler offer! The last exhaust I repaired was on the 240 
that Curt gave me (formerly Dwight’s)-the one with the head issue. I repaired 
the muffler and resonator with sheet metal as well as replacing a good amount 
of the pipes. Whole thing cost me $90 in parts from flaps that I pieced 
together. It fit better than an OE exhaust as I pretty much tailored it to car!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 24, 2017, at 6:48 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Nice work!  (as always)  I broke down and put new exhaust on both 240Ds.  
> From crockauto the price is not so bad  I patched the exhaust on the 81 
> for 22 years.  the front pipe kept rotting away.  Methinks it was a flaps 
> replacement sometime, while the rest was original.  I have a good muffler, 
> and a good resonator in the shed.  If you ever need either, you could weld 
> them on.
> 
>> Dimitri via Mercedes 
>> November 24, 2017 at 4:49 PM
>> So the entire exhaust with the exception of the front pipe fell off one of 
>> my 240Ds last November while driving locally. I pulled over, picked it off 
>> the road and ratchet strapped it to the roof rack. I drove the car sans 
>> exhaust for the remainder of the winter- neighbors loved me! As I was busy 
>> with a massive rental property renovation, I had no time until now to deal 
>> with it. Basically the pipe rotted at the flange where the front pipe and 
>> remainder of exhaust attach.
>> I bought a section pipe slightly wider than the exhaust, cut off rotted 
>> flange and welded it on, effectively creating a new flange. I then bought a 
>> new front pipe from Rockauto for a whopping $20. So for a grand total of $35 
>> including shipping, new “flange”, and new clamp, I effected a permanent and 
>> high quality repair!
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] How bad would you have to overhear at 617 that would cause it not to start?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I had the lower radiator hose clamp break while in the fast lane in heavy 
traffic at 75mph. My first hint something was wrong was when the car smelled 
hot. I looked and the gauge was pegged.I got us off the highway quick but the 
damage was done...That was a 240D, apparently Dimitri's buddy still drives it 
with the thermostat forced open...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Randy Bennell via 
Mercedes wrote:   Only if one was dumb enough to keep on 
driving it until it seized up. 
The blown rad or hose would be obvious so very little excuse for further 
abuse to the engine.

RB

On 24/11/2017 2:23 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> The plastic radiator necks deteriorated and snapped off.  POOF!
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> And I thought those old 617’s were almost indestructible
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 24, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> If it overheated by being driven w/o coolant, then the engine is most
>>> likely toast.  My son did this to two (2) W126 300SDs
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 1:36 PM, ROGER HALE via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
 Floyd,

    


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Re: [MBZ] Somebody really needs this

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Buttugly.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Nov 25, 2017 12:02 AM, "Craig via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Nov 2017 22:40:06 -0600 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>  wrote:
>
> > https://easttexas.craigslist.org/cto/d/1986-chrysler-limo/
> 6382765860.html
>
> No, thank you.
>
>
> Craig
>
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[MBZ] OT Jag Diesel

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

My buddy who lives in England posted this on his FB:
I started my car this morning, it was frosty, so I waited a few minutes to 
clear the windscreen. A minute or two later I was engulfed in a thick cloud of 
white diesel smoke. I thought the car was on fire. Called the AA who arrived 15 
minutes later. (Good service!). The AA man was on the ball. Apparently these 
diesel jags have a Webasto fuel heater that clogs up in the summer. So for the 
first few starts in the first cold snap all this gunk burns off. Nothing to 
worry about. Now that I’ve changed my underpants I can relax. 

--R
Sent from iPhone
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