[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Jeremy Tonks]

Steve Morgan has impressed me as an astute businessman (the Wolves' purchase
notwithstanding ;) I doubt that he is looking too hard for another, not
quite world class, manager. Is he in it for the long haul? Or is this an
instant gratification thing and if we haven't sown up a Europe spot by
Christmas he'll pull the rope?

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 2:28 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

It isn't looking like MM is the outstanding manager we are all looking for.
I think there were plenty who thought that even when we were top of the
championship (I still can't believe we pulled through that very dodgy period
to gain automatic promotion)

 

I find it interesting that whilst MM say's he'll be happy to survive just
outside the bottom three, Steve Morgan had much higher expectations at the
start of the season. I wonder if that has changed?

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jeremy Tonks
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 13:11
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

This is getting interesting. I'm not sure one Sir Alex proves Marcus' case.
There have been outstanding managers but they're few and far between and
they then attract the sort of money and luck that Fergy has.

It is a vicious circle - "If we play well, start getting results." Don't we
need the money (and a manager) up front so that we are able to play well and
get the results? I agree with Marcus that if we find an outstanding manager
and then have the patience to wait 10 years.

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:59 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

As usual, I disagree.  I believe managers are responsible for building and
controlling the culture within their clubs, dictate the work ethic of the
club and the style of play for the club. The better ones will also have
major influence on the recruitment/development strategy for the club.  A
perfect example of this, albeit a rare & possibly unique example, is one
Alex Ferguson.  When he started Man Utd were very mediocre.  He built a
youth development system, he set a particular style of football that he
wanted his players to follow and instilled a very strong work ethic with the
young players.  This "Culture" has developed through the club over many
years and has made the club what it is today.  The money has come as a
result of the attractive football and the success that it delivered, not the
other way around.

 

Now I doubt for a minute that we're about to unearth another Sir Alex,
however, I think we need a strong manager to direct the major facets of the
club which means that similar to Sir Alex they would have a large effect on
the results of the club.  If we play well, start getting results then people
will want to pay to see us play, investors and sponsors will hand over money
to be associated with the club.

 

On the other hand, maybe we can use this research to approach the club and
suggest that they get rid of the manager and replace him with a cooperative
of NSWolves members, as at the end of the day we won't have any effect on
the results and we can't be any worse than Thick Mick.

 

 

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:43 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

My concern with this is that you seem to be concluding that the manager is
almost entirely responsible for the success of the club.

 

I have read research in the past that says that the manager has very little
to do with the success of the club.  It's mostly down to money and luck.
The manager gets far too much focus as it's the public face of the club in
the media.  The culture of football is such that fans have been brainwashed
in almost Pavlovian ways to thinking that the manager is the culprit.  Fans
build up into a coital frenzy of wanting the managers head in exchange for
the recent run of poor results which is then satisfied by the orgasmic
dismissal of the manager.  The board can then get on with running the club
without the pressure of fans to "so something".  The fans have a snooze, or
argue over who the next manager shoud be.  

 

See this
  link for an overview of that thinking.  Managers get
sacked when results are poor but there's no evidence that it's because of
the manager that results are poor.  Subsequent managers fare no better which
suggests that managers have lit

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Morris, Lee SGT]

It isn't looking like MM is the outstanding manager we are all looking
for. I think there were plenty who thought that even when we were top of
the championship (I still can't believe we pulled through that very
dodgy period to gain automatic promotion)
 
I find it interesting that whilst MM say's he'll be happy to survive
just outside the bottom three, Steve Morgan had much higher expectations
at the start of the season. I wonder if that has changed?



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Tonks
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 13:11
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]



This is getting interesting. I'm not sure one Sir Alex proves Marcus'
case. There have been outstanding managers but they're few and far
between and they then attract the sort of money and luck that Fergy has.

It is a vicious circle - "If we play well, start getting results..."
Don't we need the money (and a manager) up front so that we are able to
play well and get the results? I agree with Marcus that if we find an
outstanding manager and then have the patience to wait 10 years...

 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:59 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

As usual, I disagree.  I believe managers are responsible for building
and controlling the culture within their clubs, dictate the work ethic
of the club and the style of play for the club. The better ones will
also have major influence on the recruitment/development strategy for
the club.  A perfect example of this, albeit a rare & possibly unique
example, is one Alex Ferguson.  When he started Man Utd were very
mediocre.  He built a youth development system, he set a particular
style of football that he wanted his players to follow and instilled a
very strong work ethic with the young players.  This "Culture" has
developed through the club over many years and has made the club what it
is today.  The money has come as a result of the attractive football and
the success that it delivered, not the other way around.

 

Now I doubt for a minute that we're about to unearth another Sir Alex,
however, I think we need a strong manager to direct the major facets of
the club which means that similar to Sir Alex they would have a large
effect on the results of the club.  If we play well, start getting
results then people will want to pay to see us play, investors and
sponsors will hand over money to be associated with the club.

 

On the other hand, maybe we can use this research to approach the club
and suggest that they get rid of the manager and replace him with a
cooperative of NSWolves members, as at the end of the day we won't have
any effect on the results and we can't be any worse than Thick Mick.

 

 

 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:43 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

My concern with this is that you seem to be concluding that the manager
is almost entirely responsible for the success of the club.

 

I have read research in the past that says that the manager has very
little to do with the success of the club.  It's mostly down to money
and luck.  The manager gets far too much focus as it's the public face
of the club in the media.  The culture of football is such that fans
have been brainwashed in almost Pavlovian ways to thinking that the
manager is the culprit.  Fans build up into a coital frenzy of wanting
the managers head in exchange for the recent run of poor results which
is then satisfied by the orgasmic dismissal of the manager.  The board
can then get on with running the club without the pressure of fans to
"so something".  The fans have a snooze, or argue over who the next
manager shoud be.  

 

See this link
  for an overview of that thinking.  Managers get
sacked when results are poor but there's no evidence that it's because
of the manager that results are poor.  Subsequent managers fare no
better which suggests that managers have little impact on the club.

 

There are some managers that are seemingly better than others, such as
O'Neill but over the medium term most don't really improve their teams
beyond their relative pecking order in the league, which is largely
money driven.  The time when managers do count is when the relationship
and respect from players is weak, and that doesn't seem to be the case
at Woles.

 

There are examples like Stoke and Wigan that seem to be punching above
their weight but a lot of this is driven 

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[LEESE Matthew]

So do those in the doubters' corner believe that we're underachieving this year 
and so should be considering a change in manager? If so, what was your 
expectation for the season? I wouldn't have expected anything other than for us 
to be floating in and out of the bottom 3 for most of the season. Its not about 
where we are at any point in the season other than after the last game for me, 
and if our combination of results across the season means that we finish out of 
the bottom 3 after the final whistle on the last day, I'll be a very happy 
punter.

Middlesbrough's board remarkably decided they were underachieving a few weeks 
ago when they'd just beaten Derby to go 3rd, 1 point off the top of the table. 
They sacked Southgate and brought in Strachan, and now they're 10th, 9 points 
off top. Genius.

Liverpool - now there's a team that's underachieving.

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 2:07 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

Whilst I do believe we have changed managers far to frequently in the past, I 
think Marcus is correct.

The success or failure of any football team ultimately reflects on the manager, 
at Wolves MM recruits, directs coaching sessions, picks the team for match day, 
makes substitutions, etc, etc...he doesn't pay for the players and his budget 
is controlled by someone else, the only way he can be spared any blame for the 
performance of our team in my opinion.



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 12:59
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

As usual, I disagree.  I believe managers are responsible for building and 
controlling the culture within their clubs, dictate the work ethic of the club 
and the style of play for the club. The better ones will also have major 
influence on the recruitment/development strategy for the club.  A perfect 
example of this, albeit a rare & possibly unique example, is one Alex Ferguson. 
 When he started Man Utd were very mediocre.  He built a youth development 
system, he set a particular style of football that he wanted his players to 
follow and instilled a very strong work ethic with the young players.  This 
"Culture" has developed through the club over many years and has made the club 
what it is today.  The money has come as a result of the attractive football 
and the success that it delivered, not the other way around.

Now I doubt for a minute that we're about to unearth another Sir Alex, however, 
I think we need a strong manager to direct the major facets of the club which 
means that similar to Sir Alex they would have a large effect on the results of 
the club.  If we play well, start getting results then people will want to pay 
to see us play, investors and sponsors will hand over money to be associated 
with the club.

On the other hand, maybe we can use this research to approach the club and 
suggest that they get rid of the manager and replace him with a cooperative of 
NSWolves members, as at the end of the day we won't have any effect on the 
results and we can't be any worse than Thick Mick.




From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:43 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

My concern with this is that you seem to be concluding that the manager is 
almost entirely responsible for the success of the club.

I have read research in the past that says that the manager has very little to 
do with the success of the club.  It's mostly down to money and luck.  The 
manager gets far too much focus as it's the public face of the club in the 
media.  The culture of football is such that fans have been brainwashed in 
almost Pavlovian ways to thinking that the manager is the culprit.  Fans build 
up into a coital frenzy of wanting the managers head in exchange for the recent 
run of poor results which is then satisfied by the orgasmic dismissal of the 
manager.  The board can then get on with running the club without the pressure 
of fans to "so something".  The fans have a snooze, or argue over who the next 
manager shoud be.

See this 
link
 for an overview of that thinking.  Managers get sacked when results are poor 
but there's no evidence that it's because of the manager that results are poor. 
 Subsequent managers fare no better which suggests that managers have little 
impact on the club.

There are some managers that are seemingly better than others, such as O'Neill 
but ove

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[pcrowe]

I firmly believe all this talk of replacing MM is premature.

 

I still have faith and hope that he will turn things around for us. 

 

This team is arguably the best one we have had to support in the last 20
years or more. Certainly the most youthful with potential to improve. The
team will be strengthened in January and if done correctly will help us stay
up. 

 

Enjoy this season in the Premier if some of you think it is going to be our
last for a while! 

 

I am not broken, far from it! As someone who used to follow them home and
away during that distastrous fall from grace in the mid-eighties you should
count your lucky stars we have a team who is worth watching. I can remember
when we used to cheer throw-ins in the opposition's half!! Sad but true.
Place went ballistic when we got a corner!!

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 2:07 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

Whilst I do believe we have changed managers far to frequently in the past,
I think Marcus is correct.

 

The success or failure of any football team ultimately reflects on the
manager, at Wolves MM recruits, directs coaching sessions, picks the team
for match day, makes substitutions, etc, etc...he doesn't pay for the
players and his budget is controlled by someone else, the only way he can be
spared any blame for the performance of our team in my opinion.

 

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 12:59
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

As usual, I disagree.  I believe managers are responsible for building and
controlling the culture within their clubs, dictate the work ethic of the
club and the style of play for the club. The better ones will also have
major influence on the recruitment/development strategy for the club.  A
perfect example of this, albeit a rare & possibly unique example, is one
Alex Ferguson.  When he started Man Utd were very mediocre.  He built a
youth development system, he set a particular style of football that he
wanted his players to follow and instilled a very strong work ethic with the
young players.  This "Culture" has developed through the club over many
years and has made the club what it is today.  The money has come as a
result of the attractive football and the success that it delivered, not the
other way around.

 

Now I doubt for a minute that we're about to unearth another Sir Alex,
however, I think we need a strong manager to direct the major facets of the
club which means that similar to Sir Alex they would have a large effect on
the results of the club.  If we play well, start getting results then people
will want to pay to see us play, investors and sponsors will hand over money
to be associated with the club.

 

On the other hand, maybe we can use this research to approach the club and
suggest that they get rid of the manager and replace him with a cooperative
of NSWolves members, as at the end of the day we won't have any effect on
the results and we can't be any worse than Thick Mick.

 

 

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:43 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

My concern with this is that you seem to be concluding that the manager is
almost entirely responsible for the success of the club.

 

I have read research in the past that says that the manager has very little
to do with the success of the club.  It's mostly down to money and luck.
The manager gets far too much focus as it's the public face of the club in
the media.  The culture of football is such that fans have been brainwashed
in almost Pavlovian ways to thinking that the manager is the culprit.  Fans
build up into a coital frenzy of wanting the managers head in exchange for
the recent run of poor results which is then satisfied by the orgasmic
dismissal of the manager.  The board can then get on with running the club
without the pressure of fans to "so something".  The fans have a snooze, or
argue over who the next manager shoud be.  

 

See this
  link for an overview of that thinking.  Managers get
sacked when results are poor but there's no evidence that it's because of
the manager that results are poor.  Subsequent managers fare no better which
suggests that managers have little impact on the club.

 

There are some managers that are seemingly better than others, such as
O'Neill but over the medium term most don't really improve their teams
beyond their relative pecking order in the league, which is largely mone

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Jeremy Tonks]

This is getting interesting. I'm not sure one Sir Alex proves Marcus' case.
There have been outstanding managers but they're few and far between and
they then attract the sort of money and luck that Fergy has.

It is a vicious circle - "If we play well, start getting results." Don't we
need the money (and a manager) up front so that we are able to play well and
get the results? I agree with Marcus that if we find an outstanding manager
and then have the patience to wait 10 years.

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:59 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

As usual, I disagree.  I believe managers are responsible for building and
controlling the culture within their clubs, dictate the work ethic of the
club and the style of play for the club. The better ones will also have
major influence on the recruitment/development strategy for the club.  A
perfect example of this, albeit a rare & possibly unique example, is one
Alex Ferguson.  When he started Man Utd were very mediocre.  He built a
youth development system, he set a particular style of football that he
wanted his players to follow and instilled a very strong work ethic with the
young players.  This "Culture" has developed through the club over many
years and has made the club what it is today.  The money has come as a
result of the attractive football and the success that it delivered, not the
other way around.

 

Now I doubt for a minute that we're about to unearth another Sir Alex,
however, I think we need a strong manager to direct the major facets of the
club which means that similar to Sir Alex they would have a large effect on
the results of the club.  If we play well, start getting results then people
will want to pay to see us play, investors and sponsors will hand over money
to be associated with the club.

 

On the other hand, maybe we can use this research to approach the club and
suggest that they get rid of the manager and replace him with a cooperative
of NSWolves members, as at the end of the day we won't have any effect on
the results and we can't be any worse than Thick Mick.

 

 

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:43 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

My concern with this is that you seem to be concluding that the manager is
almost entirely responsible for the success of the club.

 

I have read research in the past that says that the manager has very little
to do with the success of the club.  It's mostly down to money and luck.
The manager gets far too much focus as it's the public face of the club in
the media.  The culture of football is such that fans have been brainwashed
in almost Pavlovian ways to thinking that the manager is the culprit.  Fans
build up into a coital frenzy of wanting the managers head in exchange for
the recent run of poor results which is then satisfied by the orgasmic
dismissal of the manager.  The board can then get on with running the club
without the pressure of fans to "so something".  The fans have a snooze, or
argue over who the next manager shoud be.  

 

See this
  link for an overview of that thinking.  Managers get
sacked when results are poor but there's no evidence that it's because of
the manager that results are poor.  Subsequent managers fare no better which
suggests that managers have little impact on the club.

 

There are some managers that are seemingly better than others, such as
O'Neill but over the medium term most don't really improve their teams
beyond their relative pecking order in the league, which is largely money
driven.  The time when managers do count is when the relationship and
respect from players is weak, and that doesn't seem to be the case at Woles.

 

There are examples like Stoke and Wigan that seem to be punching above their
weight but a lot of this is driven by money and luck.  The League One table
now makes interesting reading as it's littered with clubs that have sunk due
to financial mismanagement, which is the other side of the coin over the
medium term.

 

The first question is:  If you rank all of the teams in the premier league
by the quality of their first XI/squad, where would Wolves rank?  I reckon
we'd be bottom three anyway

 

The second is:  Could we have built a better side, without risking the
future of the club?  I suspect not.  Doyle was willing to come, which is a
surprise, but how many other players of that quality were willing to?
Probably none.

 

The final question then is:  Would another manager do any better with the
players we've got.  I suspect not again.  There might be a honeymoon period

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Jeremy Tonks]

Yes, I think we're agreed that success or failure reflects on the manager -
but can the manager do anything to influence that success or failure? Is he
carrying too much weight and responsibility without enough influence?

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 2:07 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

Whilst I do believe we have changed managers far to frequently in the past,
I think Marcus is correct.

 

The success or failure of any football team ultimately reflects on the
manager, at Wolves MM recruits, directs coaching sessions, picks the team
for match day, makes substitutions, etc, etc...he doesn't pay for the
players and his budget is controlled by someone else, the only way he can be
spared any blame for the performance of our team in my opinion.

 

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 12:59
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

As usual, I disagree.  I believe managers are responsible for building and
controlling the culture within their clubs, dictate the work ethic of the
club and the style of play for the club. The better ones will also have
major influence on the recruitment/development strategy for the club.  A
perfect example of this, albeit a rare & possibly unique example, is one
Alex Ferguson.  When he started Man Utd were very mediocre.  He built a
youth development system, he set a particular style of football that he
wanted his players to follow and instilled a very strong work ethic with the
young players.  This "Culture" has developed through the club over many
years and has made the club what it is today.  The money has come as a
result of the attractive football and the success that it delivered, not the
other way around.

 

Now I doubt for a minute that we're about to unearth another Sir Alex,
however, I think we need a strong manager to direct the major facets of the
club which means that similar to Sir Alex they would have a large effect on
the results of the club.  If we play well, start getting results then people
will want to pay to see us play, investors and sponsors will hand over money
to be associated with the club.

 

On the other hand, maybe we can use this research to approach the club and
suggest that they get rid of the manager and replace him with a cooperative
of NSWolves members, as at the end of the day we won't have any effect on
the results and we can't be any worse than Thick Mick.

 

 

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:43 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

My concern with this is that you seem to be concluding that the manager is
almost entirely responsible for the success of the club.

 

I have read research in the past that says that the manager has very little
to do with the success of the club.  It's mostly down to money and luck.
The manager gets far too much focus as it's the public face of the club in
the media.  The culture of football is such that fans have been brainwashed
in almost Pavlovian ways to thinking that the manager is the culprit.  Fans
build up into a coital frenzy of wanting the managers head in exchange for
the recent run of poor results which is then satisfied by the orgasmic
dismissal of the manager.  The board can then get on with running the club
without the pressure of fans to "so something".  The fans have a snooze, or
argue over who the next manager shoud be.  

 

See this
  link for an overview of that thinking.  Managers get
sacked when results are poor but there's no evidence that it's because of
the manager that results are poor.  Subsequent managers fare no better which
suggests that managers have little impact on the club.

 

There are some managers that are seemingly better than others, such as
O'Neill but over the medium term most don't really improve their teams
beyond their relative pecking order in the league, which is largely money
driven.  The time when managers do count is when the relationship and
respect from players is weak, and that doesn't seem to be the case at Woles.

 

There are examples like Stoke and Wigan that seem to be punching above their
weight but a lot of this is driven by money and luck.  The League One table
now makes interesting reading as it's littered with clubs that have sunk due
to financial mismanagement, which is the other side of the coin over the
medium term.

 

The first question is:  If you rank all of the teams in the premier league
by the quality of their first XI/squad, 

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Morris, Lee SGT]

Whilst I do believe we have changed managers far to frequently in the
past, I think Marcus is correct.
 
The success or failure of any football team ultimately reflects on the
manager, at Wolves MM recruits, directs coaching sessions, picks the
team for match day, makes substitutions, etc, etc...he doesn't pay for
the players and his budget is controlled by someone else, the only way
he can be spared any blame for the performance of our team in my
opinion.
 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 12:59
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]


As usual, I disagree.  I believe managers are responsible for building
and controlling the culture within their clubs, dictate the work ethic
of the club and the style of play for the club. The better ones will
also have major influence on the recruitment/development strategy for
the club.  A perfect example of this, albeit a rare & possibly unique
example, is one Alex Ferguson.  When he started Man Utd were very
mediocre.  He built a youth development system, he set a particular
style of football that he wanted his players to follow and instilled a
very strong work ethic with the young players.  This "Culture" has
developed through the club over many years and has made the club what it
is today.  The money has come as a result of the attractive football and
the success that it delivered, not the other way around.
 
Now I doubt for a minute that we're about to unearth another Sir Alex,
however, I think we need a strong manager to direct the major facets of
the club which means that similar to Sir Alex they would have a large
effect on the results of the club.  If we play well, start getting
results then people will want to pay to see us play, investors and
sponsors will hand over money to be associated with the club.
 
On the other hand, maybe we can use this research to approach the club
and suggest that they get rid of the manager and replace him with a
cooperative of NSWolves members, as at the end of the day we won't have
any effect on the results and we can't be any worse than Thick Mick.
 
 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:43 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]


My concern with this is that you seem to be concluding that the manager
is almost entirely responsible for the success of the club.
 
I have read research in the past that says that the manager has very
little to do with the success of the club.  It's mostly down to money
and luck.  The manager gets far too much focus as it's the public face
of the club in the media.  The culture of football is such that fans
have been brainwashed in almost Pavlovian ways to thinking that the
manager is the culprit.  Fans build up into a coital frenzy of wanting
the managers head in exchange for the recent run of poor results which
is then satisfied by the orgasmic dismissal of the manager.  The board
can then get on with running the club without the pressure of fans to
"so something".  The fans have a snooze, or argue over who the next
manager shoud be.  
 
See this link
  for an overview of that thinking.  Managers get
sacked when results are poor but there's no evidence that it's because
of the manager that results are poor.  Subsequent managers fare no
better which suggests that managers have little impact on the club.
 
There are some managers that are seemingly better than others, such as
O'Neill but over the medium term most don't really improve their teams
beyond their relative pecking order in the league, which is largely
money driven.  The time when managers do count is when the relationship
and respect from players is weak, and that doesn't seem to be the case
at Woles.
 
There are examples like Stoke and Wigan that seem to be punching above
their weight but a lot of this is driven by money and luck.  The League
One table now makes interesting reading as it's littered with clubs that
have sunk due to financial mismanagement, which is the other side of the
coin over the medium term.
 
The first question is:  If you rank all of the teams in the premier
league by the quality of their first XI/squad, where would Wolves rank?
I reckon we'd be bottom three anyway
 
The second is:  Could we have built a better side, without risking the
future of the club?  I suspect not.  Doyle was willing to come, which is
a surprise, but how many other players of that quality were willing to?
Probably none.
 
The final question then is:  Would another manager do any better with
the players we've got.  I suspect not again.  There might be a honeymoon
period but t

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Marcus Chantry]

As usual, I disagree.  I believe managers are responsible for building
and controlling the culture within their clubs, dictate the work ethic
of the club and the style of play for the club. The better ones will
also have major influence on the recruitment/development strategy for
the club.  A perfect example of this, albeit a rare & possibly unique
example, is one Alex Ferguson.  When he started Man Utd were very
mediocre.  He built a youth development system, he set a particular
style of football that he wanted his players to follow and instilled a
very strong work ethic with the young players.  This "Culture" has
developed through the club over many years and has made the club what it
is today.  The money has come as a result of the attractive football and
the success that it delivered, not the other way around.
 
Now I doubt for a minute that we're about to unearth another Sir Alex,
however, I think we need a strong manager to direct the major facets of
the club which means that similar to Sir Alex they would have a large
effect on the results of the club.  If we play well, start getting
results then people will want to pay to see us play, investors and
sponsors will hand over money to be associated with the club.
 
On the other hand, maybe we can use this research to approach the club
and suggest that they get rid of the manager and replace him with a
cooperative of NSWolves members, as at the end of the day we won't have
any effect on the results and we can't be any worse than Thick Mick.
 
 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 1:43 PM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]


My concern with this is that you seem to be concluding that the manager
is almost entirely responsible for the success of the club.
 
I have read research in the past that says that the manager has very
little to do with the success of the club.  It's mostly down to money
and luck.  The manager gets far too much focus as it's the public face
of the club in the media.  The culture of football is such that fans
have been brainwashed in almost Pavlovian ways to thinking that the
manager is the culprit.  Fans build up into a coital frenzy of wanting
the managers head in exchange for the recent run of poor results which
is then satisfied by the orgasmic dismissal of the manager.  The board
can then get on with running the club without the pressure of fans to
"so something".  The fans have a snooze, or argue over who the next
manager shoud be.  
 
See this link
  for an overview of that thinking.  Managers get
sacked when results are poor but there's no evidence that it's because
of the manager that results are poor.  Subsequent managers fare no
better which suggests that managers have little impact on the club.
 
There are some managers that are seemingly better than others, such as
O'Neill but over the medium term most don't really improve their teams
beyond their relative pecking order in the league, which is largely
money driven.  The time when managers do count is when the relationship
and respect from players is weak, and that doesn't seem to be the case
at Woles.
 
There are examples like Stoke and Wigan that seem to be punching above
their weight but a lot of this is driven by money and luck.  The League
One table now makes interesting reading as it's littered with clubs that
have sunk due to financial mismanagement, which is the other side of the
coin over the medium term.
 
The first question is:  If you rank all of the teams in the premier
league by the quality of their first XI/squad, where would Wolves rank?
I reckon we'd be bottom three anyway
 
The second is:  Could we have built a better side, without risking the
future of the club?  I suspect not.  Doyle was willing to come, which is
a surprise, but how many other players of that quality were willing to?
Probably none.
 
The final question then is:  Would another manager do any better with
the players we've got.  I suspect not again.  There might be a honeymoon
period but that might not be enough to save us.
 


 
2009/11/11 Marcus Chantry 


No need to apologise Paul, I don't have much confidence in my
own financial acumen or decision making logic so I don't expect you or
anyone else to find much value from it.
 
I think for point 1 it's more around having experience at a top
level, whether that be La Liga, Serie A, Liga Sagres or even
international management experience.  Most sides would be very reluctant
to appoint someone who hasn't got a good record at the top level.
Whether it's right or wrong it makes it very hard to get a gig in the
Premier League if your background is from lower leagues.
 
point 2 - we knew what we were getting ourselves in f

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Steven Millward]

My concern with this is that you seem to be concluding that the manager is
almost entirely responsible for the success of the club.

I have read research in the past that says that the manager has very little
to do with the success of the club.  It's mostly down to money and luck.
The manager gets far too much focus as it's the public face of the club in
the media.  The culture of football is such that fans have been brainwashed
in almost Pavlovian ways to thinking that the manager is the culprit.  Fans
build up into a coital frenzy of wanting the managers head in exchange for
the recent run of poor results which is then satisfied by the orgasmic
dismissal of the manager.  The board can then get on with running the club
without the pressure of fans to "so something".  The fans have a snooze, or
argue over who the next manager shoud be.

See this 
linkfor
an overview of that thinking.  Managers get sacked when results are
poor
but there's no evidence that it's because of the manager that results are
poor.  Subsequent managers fare no better which suggests that managers have
little impact on the club.

There are some managers that are seemingly better than others, such as
O'Neill but over the medium term most don't really improve their teams
beyond their relative pecking order in the league, which is largely money
driven.  The time when managers do count is when the relationship and
respect from players is weak, and that doesn't seem to be the case at Woles.

There are examples like Stoke and Wigan that seem to be punching above their
weight but a lot of this is driven by money and luck.  The League One table
now makes interesting reading as it's littered with clubs that have sunk due
to financial mismanagement, which is the other side of the coin over the
medium term.

The first question is:  If you rank all of the teams in the premier league
by the quality of their first XI/squad, where would Wolves rank?  I reckon
we'd be bottom three anyway

The second is:  Could we have built a better side, without risking the
future of the club?  I suspect not.  Doyle was willing to come, which is a
surprise, but how many other players of that quality were willing to?
Probably none.

The final question then is:  Would another manager do any better with the
players we've got.  I suspect not again.  There might be a honeymoon period
but that might not be enough to save us.




2009/11/11 Marcus Chantry 

>  No need to apologise Paul, I don't have much confidence in my own
> financial acumen or decision making logic so I don't expect you or anyone
> else to find much value from it.
>
> I think for point 1 it's more around having experience at a top level,
> whether that be La Liga, Serie A, Liga Sagres or even international
> management experience.  Most sides would be very reluctant to appoint
> someone who hasn't got a good record at the top level.  Whether it's right
> or wrong it makes it very hard to get a gig in the Premier League if your
> background is from lower leagues.
>
> point 2 - we knew what we were getting ourselves in for when we appointed
> Thick Mick.  Has has a good track record of getting teams performing and
> even promoted at Championship level.  He has proven (twice now) that he is
> not up to the task of managing at the top level and therefore should be
> spared the embarrassment of being relegated for a second time and let him
> return to the level of his natural abilities ie Championship or lower.
>
> which brings us to point 3 - For Balti pies and Led Zep concert tickets we
> should be able to take our pick from any manager on the planet.  Assuming we
> can get Morgan to put together this attractive package before Christmas, we
> can shaft MM and get a decent manager in place - we will be Premier League
> Champions within 2 years.
>
>
>  --
> *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *pcr...@contechengineering.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 11 November 2009 11:05 AM
>
> *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]
>
>Sorry Marcus,
>
>
>
> Your jumps in logic and assumptions, points 1,2 and 3, were not what I
> implied in my email. Far from it. Sorry, I do not have your Financial acumen
> / programming to make the conclusions you have drawn.
>
>
>
> To be clear, my comments on your points as follows:
>
>
>
>1. Disagree. Firstly, look at all the foreign Coaches in the Premier
>league at the moment. How many of them had Premier league experience before
>they were appointed by their respective clubs? If you have the talent and
>the backing of the Club then you do not need Premier league experience to
>make it as a successful Coach. People like Steve Coppell and Alan 
> Curbishley
>achieved promotion with their respective sides before acquiring Premier
>

[NSWolves] Re: Fergy [sec=unclassified]

[Morris, Lee SGT]

I know, that's what I'm sayingIF anyone else is going to come in
there has to be enough time for them to sort us out. So IF we are in a
dire position in six weeks time, maybe then is the time.
 
Again, if we were to get the points against the likes of Bolton and Brum
in the coming weeks, I'll be a little less pessimistic.
 
As someone else has already said, we are starting to look like Albion
did last year, play good football at times but just aren't good enough.



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:50
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Fergy [sec=unclassified]


but it will never happen Lee because of the people who believe in all
the sentimental clap-trap that you can't sack a manager straight after
he got us promoted.  It will take relegation and a poor start to next
season to trigger a manager change at ou club, same as with DJ.
 

Marcus Chantry   |  Associate Director

Senior Product Manager - Macquarie Life
Level 3, 1 Shelley Street, Sydney, NSW, 2000, Australia 
T +61 2 8232 4259  |  M 0448 887 627

E marcus.chan...@macquarie.com

 

P


Please consider the environment before printing this email.


 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 11:43 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Fergy [sec=unclassified]


When I mentioned the Darren Fergusson news story earlier I wasn't
actually touting him as a replacement for MM.
 
HOWEVER, Steve Morgan is a successful businessman, I'm pretty sure he
would be starting to think "Hey hang on, this bloke may not be right for
my business" maybe "Mr ?" is a better bet (again I'm not talking
about Fergusson in particular).
 
I'm not calling for MM's head yet but it might not be too much longer, I
share the belief that making changes before the problem is irreversible
is the way to go in football.


The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in
this email in any way and should destroy any copies. Macquarie does not
guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or
opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or
opinions of Macquarie.

 





--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Re: Fergy [sec=unclassified]

[Jeremy Tonks]

I would have trouble viewing the appointment of DF as a forward step. We've
been promoted from the fizzy pop so we won't need someone to do that again
until next year.

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 11:50 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Fergy [sec=unclassified]

 

but it will never happen Lee because of the people who believe in all the
sentimental clap-trap that you can't sack a manager straight after he got us
promoted.  It will take relegation and a poor start to next season to
trigger a manager change at ou club, same as with DJ.

 

Marcus Chantry   |  Associate Director

Senior Product Manager - Macquarie Life
Level 3, 1 Shelley Street, Sydney, NSW, 2000, Australia 
T +61 2 8232 4259  |  M 0448 887 627

E marcus.chan...@macquarie.com

 

 


P


Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 11:43 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Fergy [sec=unclassified]

When I mentioned the Darren Fergusson news story earlier I wasn't actually
touting him as a replacement for MM.

 

HOWEVER, Steve Morgan is a successful businessman, I'm pretty sure he would
be starting to think "Hey hang on, this bloke may not be right for my
business" maybe "Mr ?" is a better bet (again I'm not talking about
Fergusson in particular).

 

I'm not calling for MM's head yet but it might not be too much longer, I
share the belief that making changes before the problem is irreversible is
the way to go in football.

 

The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this
email in any way and should destroy any copies. Macquarie does not guarantee
the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions
expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of
Macquarie.

 





--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Re: Fergy [sec=unclassified]

[Marcus Chantry]

but it will never happen Lee because of the people who believe in all
the sentimental clap-trap that you can't sack a manager straight after
he got us promoted.  It will take relegation and a poor start to next
season to trigger a manager change at ou club, same as with DJ.
 

Marcus Chantry   |  Associate Director

Senior Product Manager - Macquarie Life
Level 3, 1 Shelley Street, Sydney, NSW, 2000, Australia 
T +61 2 8232 4259  |  M 0448 887 627

E marcus.chan...@macquarie.com

 

P


Please consider the environment before printing this email.


 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 11:43 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Fergy [sec=unclassified]


When I mentioned the Darren Fergusson news story earlier I wasn't
actually touting him as a replacement for MM.
 
HOWEVER, Steve Morgan is a successful businessman, I'm pretty sure he
would be starting to think "Hey hang on, this bloke may not be right for
my business" maybe "Mr ?" is a better bet (again I'm not talking
about Fergusson in particular).
 
I'm not calling for MM's head yet but it might not be too much longer, I
share the belief that making changes before the problem is irreversible
is the way to go in football.




The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the 
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email 
in any way and should destroy any copies. Macquarie does not guarantee the 
integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are 
the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Macquarie.


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Marcus Chantry]

I think he uses his left leg and his right leg together...
 
 

Marcus Chantry   |  Associate Director

Senior Product Manager - Macquarie Life
Level 3, 1 Shelley Street, Sydney, NSW, 2000, Australia 
T +61 2 8232 4259  |  M 0448 887 627

E marcus.chan...@macquarie.com

 

P


Please consider the environment before printing this email.


 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 11:33 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]


I wonder what Steve Morgan's stance is on all this?
 
 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of pcr...@contechengineering.com
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:05
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]



Sorry Marcus,

 

Your jumps in logic and assumptions, points 1,2 and 3, were not what I
implied in my email. Far from it. Sorry, I do not have your Financial
acumen / programming to make the conclusions you have drawn.

 

To be clear, my comments on your points as follows:

 

1.  Disagree. Firstly, look at all the foreign Coaches in the
Premier league at the moment. How many of them had Premier league
experience before they were appointed by their respective clubs? If you
have the talent and the backing of the Club then you do not need Premier
league experience to make it as a successful Coach. People like Steve
Coppell and Alan Curbishley achieved promotion with their respective
sides before acquiring Premier League management experience. As they
deserved, just like MM has after achieving promotion. 
2.  Disagree, MM has earned his chance to manage the Wolves in the
Prem. 
3.  Partly agree, if we were to appoint another Manager then yes,
you would think the club would appoint someone with a consistent record
of being  successful in the Premier League. How to do this? Pay them a
lot of money! Give them full control of player recruitment. Bonus scheme
for level of success attained. Free tickets to Led Zep concerts and
balti pies on match days! 

 

 

 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:30 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

I might be a bit confused this morning but based on the comments from
the previous emails it seems:

 

1) you can't manage a Premier League team unless you have a successful
track record of managing a Premier League team - in that case how do get
the opportunity to try?

2) on the basis that Thick Mick has a good record in the Championship
but a crap record at managing in the Premier League then he shouldn't be
our manager - he should always remain a Championship level manager.

3) if the only managers that are suitable for the premier league are the
successful ones, how do you get them to leave their successful clubs to
manager sh1te teams like Wolves?

 

 

 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:15 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

Boo!  Thick Mick out!

2009/11/11 

Are you serious Lee?

 

Posh are bottom of the League, that is why he has been sacked. Even
though I think it very harsh he has been sacked so quickly after
successive promotions. That said the management at Posh are obviously
convinced he can't turn it around. 

 

Okay MM has been bottom of the Premier League with us and Sunderland but
to my knowledge he has never been bottom of the Championship with a
team, far from it!!

 

Ferguson was useless down the Molineux, played only a handful of good
games from memory. Obviously has been successful as a lower league
Manager but has not made the grade at Championship level. What makes you
think he will be successful for the Wolves in the Premier?

 

 

Paul Crowe

Sales Manager - Asia Pacific

 

ConTech (Sydney Office)

 

PO Box 3517

Rhodes Waterside

Rhodes NSW  2138

Tel: 02 97396636  Fax: 02 97396542

Mob: 0406009562

Email: pcr...@contechengineering.com

Website: www.contechengineering.com 


 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 9:34 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

Just left Peterborough after two successive promotions.

 

Would be ok with Sir Alex as assistant

 

 

 

The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use

[NSWolves] Fergy [sec=unclassified]

[Morris, Lee SGT]

When I mentioned the Darren Fergusson news story earlier I wasn't
actually touting him as a replacement for MM.
 
HOWEVER, Steve Morgan is a successful businessman, I'm pretty sure he
would be starting to think "Hey hang on, this bloke may not be right for
my business" maybe "Mr ?" is a better bet (again I'm not talking
about Fergusson in particular).
 
I'm not calling for MM's head yet but it might not be too much longer, I
share the belief that making changes before the problem is irreversible
is the way to go in football.

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Morris, Lee SGT]

I wonder what Steve Morgan's stance is on all this?
 
 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of pcr...@contechengineering.com
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:05
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]



Sorry Marcus,

 

Your jumps in logic and assumptions, points 1,2 and 3, were not what I
implied in my email. Far from it. Sorry, I do not have your Financial
acumen / programming to make the conclusions you have drawn.

 

To be clear, my comments on your points as follows:

 

1.  Disagree. Firstly, look at all the foreign Coaches in the
Premier league at the moment. How many of them had Premier league
experience before they were appointed by their respective clubs? If you
have the talent and the backing of the Club then you do not need Premier
league experience to make it as a successful Coach. People like Steve
Coppell and Alan Curbishley achieved promotion with their respective
sides before acquiring Premier League management experience. As they
deserved, just like MM has after achieving promotion. 
2.  Disagree, MM has earned his chance to manage the Wolves in the
Prem. 
3.  Partly agree, if we were to appoint another Manager then yes,
you would think the club would appoint someone with a consistent record
of being  successful in the Premier League. How to do this? Pay them a
lot of money! Give them full control of player recruitment. Bonus scheme
for level of success attained. Free tickets to Led Zep concerts and
balti pies on match days! 

 

 

 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:30 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

I might be a bit confused this morning but based on the comments from
the previous emails it seems:

 

1) you can't manage a Premier League team unless you have a successful
track record of managing a Premier League team - in that case how do get
the opportunity to try?

2) on the basis that Thick Mick has a good record in the Championship
but a crap record at managing in the Premier League then he shouldn't be
our manager - he should always remain a Championship level manager.

3) if the only managers that are suitable for the premier league are the
successful ones, how do you get them to leave their successful clubs to
manager sh1te teams like Wolves?

 

 

 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:15 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

Boo!  Thick Mick out!

2009/11/11 

Are you serious Lee?

 

Posh are bottom of the League, that is why he has been sacked. Even
though I think it very harsh he has been sacked so quickly after
successive promotions. That said the management at Posh are obviously
convinced he can't turn it around. 

 

Okay MM has been bottom of the Premier League with us and Sunderland but
to my knowledge he has never been bottom of the Championship with a
team, far from it!!

 

Ferguson was useless down the Molineux, played only a handful of good
games from memory. Obviously has been successful as a lower league
Manager but has not made the grade at Championship level. What makes you
think he will be successful for the Wolves in the Premier?

 

 

Paul Crowe

Sales Manager - Asia Pacific

 

ConTech (Sydney Office)

 

PO Box 3517

Rhodes Waterside

Rhodes NSW  2138

Tel: 02 97396636  Fax: 02 97396542

Mob: 0406009562

Email: pcr...@contechengineering.com

Website: www.contechengineering.com 


 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 9:34 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

Just left Peterborough after two successive promotions.

 

Would be ok with Sir Alex as assistant

 

 

 

The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in
this email in any way and should destroy any copies. Macquarie does not
guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or
opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or
opinions of Macquarie.

 









--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Marcus Chantry]

No need to apologise Paul, I don't have much confidence in my own
financial acumen or decision making logic so I don't expect you or
anyone else to find much value from it.
 
I think for point 1 it's more around having experience at a top level,
whether that be La Liga, Serie A, Liga Sagres or even international
management experience.  Most sides would be very reluctant to appoint
someone who hasn't got a good record at the top level.  Whether it's
right or wrong it makes it very hard to get a gig in the Premier League
if your background is from lower leagues.
 
point 2 - we knew what we were getting ourselves in for when we
appointed Thick Mick.  Has has a good track record of getting teams
performing and even promoted at Championship level.  He has proven
(twice now) that he is not up to the task of managing at the top level
and therefore should be spared the embarrassment of being relegated for
a second time and let him return to the level of his natural abilities
ie Championship or lower.
 
which brings us to point 3 - For Balti pies and Led Zep concert tickets
we should be able to take our pick from any manager on the planet.
Assuming we can get Morgan to put together this attractive package
before Christmas, we can shaft MM and get a decent manager in place - we
will be Premier League Champions within 2 years.




From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of pcr...@contechengineering.com
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 11:05 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]



Sorry Marcus,

 

Your jumps in logic and assumptions, points 1,2 and 3, were not what I
implied in my email. Far from it. Sorry, I do not have your Financial
acumen / programming to make the conclusions you have drawn.

 

To be clear, my comments on your points as follows:

 

1.  Disagree. Firstly, look at all the foreign Coaches in the
Premier league at the moment. How many of them had Premier league
experience before they were appointed by their respective clubs? If you
have the talent and the backing of the Club then you do not need Premier
league experience to make it as a successful Coach. People like Steve
Coppell and Alan Curbishley achieved promotion with their respective
sides before acquiring Premier League management experience. As they
deserved, just like MM has after achieving promotion. 
2.  Disagree, MM has earned his chance to manage the Wolves in the
Prem. 
3.  Partly agree, if we were to appoint another Manager then yes,
you would think the club would appoint someone with a consistent record
of being  successful in the Premier League. How to do this? Pay them a
lot of money! Give them full control of player recruitment. Bonus scheme
for level of success attained. Free tickets to Led Zep concerts and
balti pies on match days! 

 

 

 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:30 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

I might be a bit confused this morning but based on the comments from
the previous emails it seems:

 

1) you can't manage a Premier League team unless you have a successful
track record of managing a Premier League team - in that case how do get
the opportunity to try?

2) on the basis that Thick Mick has a good record in the Championship
but a crap record at managing in the Premier League then he shouldn't be
our manager - he should always remain a Championship level manager.

3) if the only managers that are suitable for the premier league are the
successful ones, how do you get them to leave their successful clubs to
manager sh1te teams like Wolves?

 

 

 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:15 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

Boo!  Thick Mick out!

2009/11/11 

Are you serious Lee?

 

Posh are bottom of the League, that is why he has been sacked. Even
though I think it very harsh he has been sacked so quickly after
successive promotions. That said the management at Posh are obviously
convinced he can't turn it around. 

 

Okay MM has been bottom of the Premier League with us and Sunderland but
to my knowledge he has never been bottom of the Championship with a
team, far from it!!

 

Ferguson was useless down the Molineux, played only a handful of good
games from memory. Obviously has been successful as a lower league
Manager but has not made the grade at Championship level. What makes you
think he will be successful for the Wolves in the Premier?

 

 

Paul Crowe

Sales Manager - Asia Pacific

 

ConTech (Sydney Office)

 

PO Box 3517

Rhodes Waterside

Rhodes NSW  2138

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[pcrowe]

Sorry Marcus,

 

Your jumps in logic and assumptions, points 1,2 and 3, were not what I
implied in my email. Far from it. Sorry, I do not have your Financial acumen
/ programming to make the conclusions you have drawn.

 

To be clear, my comments on your points as follows:

 

1.  Disagree. Firstly, look at all the foreign Coaches in the Premier
league at the moment. How many of them had Premier league experience before
they were appointed by their respective clubs? If you have the talent and
the backing of the Club then you do not need Premier league experience to
make it as a successful Coach. People like Steve Coppell and Alan Curbishley
achieved promotion with their respective sides before acquiring Premier
League management experience. As they deserved, just like MM has after
achieving promotion. 
2.  Disagree, MM has earned his chance to manage the Wolves in the Prem.

3.  Partly agree, if we were to appoint another Manager then yes, you
would think the club would appoint someone with a consistent record of being
successful in the Premier League. How to do this? Pay them a lot of money!
Give them full control of player recruitment. Bonus scheme for level of
success attained. Free tickets to Led Zep concerts and balti pies on match
days! 

 

 

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Marcus Chantry
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:30 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

I might be a bit confused this morning but based on the comments from the
previous emails it seems:

 

1) you can't manage a Premier League team unless you have a successful track
record of managing a Premier League team - in that case how do get the
opportunity to try?

2) on the basis that Thick Mick has a good record in the Championship but a
crap record at managing in the Premier League then he shouldn't be our
manager - he should always remain a Championship level manager.

3) if the only managers that are suitable for the premier league are the
successful ones, how do you get them to leave their successful clubs to
manager sh1te teams like Wolves?

 

 

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:15 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

Boo!  Thick Mick out!

2009/11/11 

Are you serious Lee?

 

Posh are bottom of the League, that is why he has been sacked. Even though I
think it very harsh he has been sacked so quickly after successive
promotions. That said the management at Posh are obviously convinced he
can't turn it around. 

 

Okay MM has been bottom of the Premier League with us and Sunderland but to
my knowledge he has never been bottom of the Championship with a team, far
from it!!

 

Ferguson was useless down the Molineux, played only a handful of good games
from memory. Obviously has been successful as a lower league Manager but has
not made the grade at Championship level. What makes you think he will be
successful for the Wolves in the Premier?

 

 

Paul Crowe

Sales Manager - Asia Pacific

 

ConTech (Sydney Office)

 

PO Box 3517

Rhodes Waterside

Rhodes NSW  2138

Tel: 02 97396636  Fax: 02 97396542

Mob: 0406009562

Email: pcr...@contechengineering.com

Website: www.contechengineering.com  

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 9:34 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

Just left Peterborough after two successive promotions.

 

Would be ok with Sir Alex as assistant

 

 

 

The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this
email in any way and should destroy any copies. Macquarie does not guarantee
the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions
expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of
Macquarie.

 





--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Tame Ladies Football Game

[Paul Butcher]

Check this out!!

http://www.footytube.com/video/dirty-women-s-college-soccer-defender-26958
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Marcus Chantry]

I might be a bit confused this morning but based on the comments from
the previous emails it seems:
 
1) you can't manage a Premier League team unless you have a successful
track record of managing a Premier League team - in that case how do get
the opportunity to try?
2) on the basis that Thick Mick has a good record in the Championship
but a crap record at managing in the Premier League then he shouldn't be
our manager - he should always remain a Championship level manager.
3) if the only managers that are suitable for the premier league are the
successful ones, how do you get them to leave their successful clubs to
manager sh1te teams like Wolves?
 
 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Steven Millward
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 10:15 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]


Boo!  Thick Mick out!


2009/11/11 


Are you serious Lee?

 

Posh are bottom of the League, that is why he has been sacked.
Even though I think it very harsh he has been sacked so quickly after
successive promotions. That said the management at Posh are obviously
convinced he can't turn it around. 

 

Okay MM has been bottom of the Premier League with us and
Sunderland but to my knowledge he has never been bottom of the
Championship with a team, far from it!!

 

Ferguson was useless down the Molineux, played only a handful of
good games from memory. Obviously has been successful as a lower league
Manager but has not made the grade at Championship level. What makes you
think he will be successful for the Wolves in the Premier?

 

 

Paul Crowe

Sales Manager - Asia Pacific

 

ConTech (Sydney Office)

 

PO Box 3517

Rhodes Waterside

Rhodes NSW  2138

Tel: 02 97396636  Fax: 02 97396542

Mob: 0406009562

Email: pcr...@contechengineering.com

Website: www.contechengineering.com
 

 





From: nswolves@googlegroups.com
[mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 9:34 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

Just left Peterborough after two successive promotions.

 

Would be ok with Sir Alex as assistant











The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the 
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email 
in any way and should destroy any copies. Macquarie does not guarantee the 
integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are 
the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Macquarie.


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Steven Millward]

Boo!  Thick Mick out!

2009/11/11 

>  Are you serious Lee?
>
>
>
> Posh are bottom of the League, that is why he has been sacked. Even though
> I think it very harsh he has been sacked so quickly after successive
> promotions. That said the management at Posh are obviously convinced he
> can’t turn it around.
>
>
>
> Okay MM has been bottom of the Premier League with us and Sunderland but to
> my knowledge he has never been bottom of the Championship with a team, far
> from it!!
>
>
>
> Ferguson was useless down the Molineux, played only a handful of good
> games from memory. Obviously has been successful as a lower league Manager
> but has not made the grade at Championship level. What makes you think he
> will be successful for the Wolves in the Premier?
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul Crowe
>
> Sales Manager - Asia Pacific
>
>
>
> ConTech (Sydney Office)
>
>
>
> PO Box 3517
>
> Rhodes Waterside
>
> Rhodes NSW  2138
>
> Tel: 02 97396636  Fax: 02 97396542
>
> Mob: 0406009562
>
> Email: pcr...@contechengineering.com
>
> Website: www.contechengineering.com
>
>
>   --
>
> *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Morris, Lee SGT
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 11 November 2009 9:34 AM
> *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [NSWolves] Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]
>
>
>
> Just left Peterborough after two successive promotions.
>
>
>
> Would be ok with Sir Alex as assistant
>
>
>
> >
>
>

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[pcrowe]

Are you serious Lee?

 

Posh are bottom of the League, that is why he has been sacked. Even though I
think it very harsh he has been sacked so quickly after successive
promotions. That said the management at Posh are obviously convinced he
can't turn it around. 

 

Okay MM has been bottom of the Premier League with us and Sunderland but to
my knowledge he has never been bottom of the Championship with a team, far
from it!!

 

Ferguson was useless down the Molineux, played only a handful of good games
from memory. Obviously has been successful as a lower league Manager but has
not made the grade at Championship level. What makes you think he will be
successful for the Wolves in the Premier?

 

 

Paul Crowe

Sales Manager - Asia Pacific

 

ConTech (Sydney Office)

 

PO Box 3517

Rhodes Waterside

Rhodes NSW  2138

Tel: 02 97396636  Fax: 02 97396542

Mob: 0406009562

Email: pcr...@contechengineering.com

Website: www.contechengineering.com

 

  _  

From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 9:34 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

 

Just left Peterborough after two successive promotions.

 

Would be ok with Sir Alex as assistant





--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Re: Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Marcus Chantry]

I can only hope that he's a better manager than he was a player.
 

Marcus Chantry   |  Associate Director

Senior Product Manager - Macquarie Life
Level 3, 1 Shelley Street, Sydney, NSW, 2000, Australia 
T +61 2 8232 4259  |  M 0448 887 627

E marcus.chan...@macquarie.com

 

P


Please consider the environment before printing this email.


 



From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswol...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Morris, Lee SGT
Sent: Wednesday, 11 November 2009 9:34 AM
To: nswolves@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NSWolves] Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]


Just left Peterborough after two successive promotions.
 
Would be ok with Sir Alex as assistant




The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the 
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email 
in any way and should destroy any copies. Macquarie does not guarantee the 
integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are 
the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Macquarie.


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[NSWolves] Darren Ferguson anyone? [sec=unclassified]

[Morris, Lee SGT]

Just left Peterborough after two successive promotions.
 
Would be ok with Sir Alex as assistant

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Pig's pudding - it's a mon's dinner aer kid
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---