Re: Time line?
Reply to: Re: Time line? John Magee wrote: Who was the first alt.country artist? Hanspeter Eggenberger wrote: I think the line begins with Hank Williams. Christopher M Knaus wrote: How? He was Nashville, popular, mainstream, did adds for just about anything, and wrote songs for the sole purpose of selling alot of them to a mainstream audience. The man was country. No alt. But, Christopher, Hank Williams' work has a greater influence on many alt.country artists from Rank File to The Waco Brothers than on Garth Brooks. HP
Re: Time line?
Jon Weisberger wrote re: ... underlying class issues. Nashville's upper crust, for instance, prided itself on living in The Athens Of The South (hence the Parthenon), and by and large disdained the Opry and the country music bidness into the 1960s, but I don't think that attitude permeated all sectors of the city's population. That's what I suspected. One would think that New Orleans whose identification with and economic drawing power depend so much on its image as a swingin' town would revere its musicians, but most of the year they're as marginalized there as anywhere else. Some of that's racial as much as a class issue. It's certainly not related to any disdain for whooping it up in public, for the uppercrust has bought into that for at least 150 years. A funny side thing is that I've played at swank parties in NO and NY at which exceedingly wealthy fiftysomething male New Orleanians have gotten into SERIOUS performances as Elvis impersonators. It's impossible to avoid the irony of these captains of society impersonating someone who, in his lifetime, was both far poorer and far wealthier than they could ever imagine. Imagine the distance from the Memphis projects to the Garden District ... bizarre. Tom Smith (ps - Jon, thanks for the tip on Malone's "Singing Cowboys" book awhile back. Looks like good vacation reading for an upcoming trip west of the Pecos)
Re: Time line?
Hey there, Hanspeter responds: But, Christopher, Hank Williams' work has a greater influence on many alt.country artists from Rank File to The Waco Brothers than on Garth Brooks.HP Well, if influence means "We like Hank because he drank alot, died young and wrote songs that are fun to play alot louder and faster than he did." Maybe. And I think there's a straighter line between "Low Places" and "Honky Tonkin" than there is between the Wacos cover of the same song. Also, on another tack, if an artist influences alt.country bands, that does not necessarily make them an alt.country artist. Your point seems to tread closely to "country" being defined as "the mainstream stuff I do not like" and "alt.country" being defined as "everything I do like." This is dangerous. Maybe I've been reading too many of Weisberger's posts. g If asked to divide acts into alt.country and country buckets (much to the chagrin of Cheryl) I would place Hank in the lattter based on popularity, style, and marketing agenda. The first alt.country artist was, of course, Emmett Miller g. Later... CK ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Time line?
John Magee wonders: Who was the first alt.country artist? Bill Monroe? Bob Wills? Johnny Cash? snip My vote goes to that kamikaze of the acoustic guitar, Riley Puckett.
Re: Time line?
While I'm thinking about it, I came up with a solution -- that works for me -- to dealing with the infernal question "What is Alternative Country?" For the purposes of the time-line -- although it's also my general philosophy -- I don't attempt to define "alternative country" at all. Instead... sort of turn it around a bit, and consider -- -- an alternative way of looking at country music(snip rest of post) ...Cheryl Cline Great stuff, Cheryl. Wonderful concept. Might make for a great book (hint). I'd love to read a discussion such as this on P2 as well. Any takers to continue the ball rolling here? Tera
Re: Time line?
Reply to: Re: Time line? John Magee wrote: Who was the first alt.country artist? I think the line begins with Hank Williams. And don't forget Gram Parsons! HP
Re: Time line?
Hi Tom, Tom Smith wrote: Jamie Hoover wrote: I'm still trying to figure out the anti-country (any country) backlash in Gallup and one theory that was presented to me was that it wasn't actually anti-country but anti-Navajo. --Yikes. Yikes indeed. Just outta curiosity, if country is out, what's "in" instead? What I'm finding out is that the folks that tend to call this station are really against anything, music or involvement that is of a local/community nature. Strangest thing I've ever come across. Seems that many people who make a living off the Indians don't like being reminded that they're in the west. The blatant paternalism is truly offensive, especially to someone who has only lived in the west.My first day here all I heard was "well, local programming is ok as long as it isn't Country and Western" about seven people said that to me in day. The folks that don't like the west want Classical and Jazz programming,especially if it is NPR produced. Very strange indeed. Hey you are headin west aren't you? Have a great time in Alpine and Austin. Jamie
Re: Time line?
Jamie Hoover wrote: I'm still trying to figure out the anti-country (any country) backlash in Gallup ... many people who make a living off the Indians don't like being reminded that they're in the west. The blatant paternalism is truly offensive, especially to someone who has only lived in the west.My first day here all I heard was "well, local programming is ok as long as it isn't Country and Western" Yeah, that's odd. I wonder if metropolitan Nashville natives were like that in the early days of the Opry, before the recording money started barreling in. Maybe it's part of the undying urge to identify with a larger mass culture and ignore the local stuff. I lived in New Orleans about 20 years ago and hearing local musicians on the radio outside of Mardi Gras season was rare. I also remember an old Cajun guy in Golden Meadow whose granddaughter was transfixed by the Osmonds. She couldn't have cared less about the culture she was living in. Hey you are headin west aren't you? Have a great time in Alpine and Austin. Thanks, I Ieave on Monday! Tom
Re: Time line?
Hey there, Hanspeter Eggenberger writes: Reply to: Re: Time line? John Magee wrote: Who was the first alt.country artist? I think the line begins with Hank Williams. How? He was Nashville, popular, mainstream, did adds for just about anything, and wrote songs for the sole purpose of selling alot of them to a mainstream audience. The man was country. No alt. Later... CK filling in poorly for JW ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Time line?
Jim, smilin', asks: A while back there was some talk here of putting together an alt.country timeline. Did that ever happen? if not does anyone know where I might be able to find such a thing? Thanks, Jim, smilin It hasn't happened... yet. I've been working on it a little bit. But holy moly, what a daunting task. Call for volunteers! Call for volunteers! Step right up! Actually money might be involved if you want to really work hard. (Talk about musicians... nobody wants to pay writers, either.) While I'm thinking about it, I came up with a solution -- that works for me -- to dealing with the infernal question "What is Alternative Country?" For the purposes of the time-line -- although it's also my general philosophy -- I don't attempt to define "alternative country" at all. Instead... sort of turn it around a bit, and consider -- -- an alternative way of looking at country music. Ta da! It works, I tell you! Example: If I say Twangin' is an alternative country website, then the word "alternative" modifies "country website." An different kind of website about country music, not (necessarily) a website about a different kind of country music. Example: Mainstream and "alt-country" do not break down into simple, mutually exclusive categories. People like Dwight Yoakam can become popular in the mainstream; people like Dolly Parton do albums an alt-boy can love. So instead of cudgelling one's brains trying to place these artists on one "side" or another, why, you take up your handy-dandy alternative way of looking at country music, which allows you to to see that what the mainstream country media (esp. radio) defines as "real" country is not historically accurate, correct, or definitive. Country music encompasses more than what's on the charts, and especially more than what's played on the radio. It includes bluegrass! Old-Time music! Rockabilly! Anyone who defines country music narrowly is WRONG! The narrow definition whereby "alternative" = "obscure" is untenable as well. A musician isn't disqualified from being regarded from an alternative way of looking at country music when he becomes popular and successful. Furthermore, even an established mainstream artist can be considered interesting according to an alternative way of looking at country music if her music wanders away from the currently narrow, cramped, blindered definition and frolics 'round the wide-open spaces of Country Music Through Space and Time. Defining it as post-Tupelo country-rock, or as "authentic" pure real country music -- not in my book. I prefer an alternative way of looking at country music that takes it all into account. And the tiresome phrase "alternative country, whatever that is" is answered. It's a viewpoint, is what. Or actually -- *coff* -- many alternative viewpoints... Well, hell. We need more. Gets stifling in here sometimes. Hey, anybody want to discuss how working class people listen to country music? Think we can find any of them critters? (I'm in one of my moods. Chip? What chip?) Anyway, as for the timeline, *my* alternative way of looking at country music means I can include Buck Owens if I dang heck want to, and Dolly Parton and Johnny "Alternative to what?" Cash. As well as that country-rock band from the Midwest. To me, a timeline based on an alternative way of looking at country music would be a lot more intersting and useful than a timeline of alternative country bands. (Well, you can do your own, then!) Rather than having to decide, "is this artist really alternative country?" the question would be, "how does this artist fit into an alterantive way of looking at country music?" How does Ralph Stanley fit in? Tish Hinojosa? Merle Haggard? What effect does Garth Brooks have? Etc. More on this later, --Cheryl Cline
Re: Time line?
Wow! Cheryl you are my hero. I'm still trying to figure out the anti-country (any country) backlash in Gallup and one theory that was presented to me was that it wasn't actually anti-country but anti-Navajo. So not only should we discuss how working class listening to country but also now there seems to be racial component--Yikes. Jamie
Re: Time line?
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 17-Feb-99 Re: Time line? by Cheryl [EMAIL PROTECTED] More on this later, --Cheryl Cline Much more, please. I sense a mighty fine thread starting up. Carl Z.
Re: Time line?
Jamie Hoover wrote: I'm still trying to figure out the anti-country (any country) backlash in Gallup and one theory that was presented to me was that it wasn't actually anti-country but anti-Navajo. --Yikes. Yikes indeed. Just outta curiosity, if country is out, what's "in" instead? Tom Smith
