Re: [RBW] Eccentric ENO Hub and Fixed Gear Bikepacking
That I know. The premise is a dingle and a double chainring where you have 2 combinations adding up to the same number of teeth. On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 6:35 PM Eric Daume wrote: > If you make a dinglesoeed with the same teeth count, an ENO will be fine. > However, it still may require tension adjustment when you change gears > (though the gear teeth add up to the same number, the actual chain length > still changes slightly). > > But if you’re trying to accommodate different teeth count, the ENO won’t > have the necessary throw for adjustment. As a simplified example, if you > had a 38t single front ring and a 16/19 rear dingle, an ENO is not going to > cut it. > > Eric > > On Saturday, February 2, 2019, Patrick Moore wrote: > >> I've set up several single speed and fixed gear drivetrains with ENOS on >> vertical dropout frames using non-White-Industry cranks and have always >> managed to get very good chainlines by simply choosing the right bb spindle >> length. Sure, I've used only a single ring and single cog, but with 2 rings >> and a Dingle, just nudge the bb over a smidgen to compensate, if necessary. >> >> I don't see what the problem is! What am I missing here? >> >> On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 5:30 PM ian m wrote: >> >>> If you don't care about chain line, then sure. The White Ind double >>> chainring gives perfect chain line across two separate gears. I don't think >>> that would be possible with a standard double crankset. Here's a not great >>> photo of the set up >>> >>> [image: CAM00162_zpsa88332ab.JPG] >>> >>> Hard to see but chainline is on target and perfectly straight, larger >>> cog is to the left and almost touching the chain, the smaller chainring is >>> the same up front. Machined to very specific tolerances to make what we are >>> talking about work as best it can. >>> >>> On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 6:43:06 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: No, I mean run, say a 17/20 in back and a, say, 42/39 in front, on a Sugino or Pro 5 Vis or old Suntour XC Pro or what have you; ENO + Dingle back and Pro 5 Vis front, say. No need as far as I can see for a White Industries. On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 1:42 PM ian m wrote: > Sure, you could run a triple crank up front and use a derailer to take > up slack, if you were so inclined. The White Industries solution just > happens to be not only incredibly practical but also elegant. Keeps your > chain length the same, keeps your chain line straight, gives you two gears > that are generally very well suited to either flats/hills or onroad/off. > No > chain slop and very easy to use. > > I've also been considering a fixed winter bike via the Paul fixed rear > hub on an old MTB. Sounds delightfully ridiculous > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- ** *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.* --- J.R.R. Tolkien --- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching Other professional writing services Expensive! But good. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> ** >> >> >> >> >> >> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And >> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the >> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.* >> --- J.R.R. Tolkien >>
Re: [RBW] Eccentric ENO Hub and Fixed Gear Bikepacking
If you make a dinglesoeed with the same teeth count, an ENO will be fine. However, it still may require tension adjustment when you change gears (though the gear teeth add up to the same number, the actual chain length still changes slightly). But if you’re trying to accommodate different teeth count, the ENO won’t have the necessary throw for adjustment. As a simplified example, if you had a 38t single front ring and a 16/19 rear dingle, an ENO is not going to cut it. Eric On Saturday, February 2, 2019, Patrick Moore wrote: > I've set up several single speed and fixed gear drivetrains with ENOS on > vertical dropout frames using non-White-Industry cranks and have always > managed to get very good chainlines by simply choosing the right bb spindle > length. Sure, I've used only a single ring and single cog, but with 2 rings > and a Dingle, just nudge the bb over a smidgen to compensate, if necessary. > > I don't see what the problem is! What am I missing here? > > On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 5:30 PM ian m wrote: > >> If you don't care about chain line, then sure. The White Ind double >> chainring gives perfect chain line across two separate gears. I don't think >> that would be possible with a standard double crankset. Here's a not great >> photo of the set up >> >> [image: CAM00162_zpsa88332ab.JPG] >> >> Hard to see but chainline is on target and perfectly straight, larger cog >> is to the left and almost touching the chain, the smaller chainring is the >> same up front. Machined to very specific tolerances to make what we are >> talking about work as best it can. >> >> On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 6:43:06 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: >>> >>> No, I mean run, say a 17/20 in back and a, say, 42/39 in front, on a >>> Sugino or Pro 5 Vis or old Suntour XC Pro or what have you; ENO + Dingle >>> back and Pro 5 Vis front, say. No need as far as I can see for a White >>> Industries. >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 1:42 PM ian m wrote: >>> Sure, you could run a triple crank up front and use a derailer to take up slack, if you were so inclined. The White Industries solution just happens to be not only incredibly practical but also elegant. Keeps your chain length the same, keeps your chain line straight, gives you two gears that are generally very well suited to either flats/hills or onroad/off. No chain slop and very easy to use. I've also been considering a fixed winter bike via the Paul fixed rear hub on an old MTB. Sounds delightfully ridiculous -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And >>> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the >>> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.* >>> --- J.R.R. Tolkien >>> --- >>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews >>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching >>> Other professional writing services >>> Expensive! But good. >>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/ >>> Patrick Moore >>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > > > > > ** > > > > > > *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And > though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the > hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.* > --- J.R.R. Tolkien > --- > Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews > By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching > Other professional writing services > Expensive! But good. > http://www.resumespecialties.com/ > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique > > -- > You received this
Re: [RBW] Eccentric ENO Hub and Fixed Gear Bikepacking
Thanks, all. I, obviously in asking the question, suspected as much and hoped for more. It looks more and more like I shall embrace delighted contentment with the Hunqabeam for my riding, including the underbiking bits when they come. Considering it handles with aplumb 95% of my milage, it’s an excellent position to be in. Grin. Still haven’t given up on a fixed gear Boots, but the options for proceeding are dwindling. With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Eccentric ENO Hub and Fixed Gear Bikepacking
The Eno basically has four positions, two for each chain length or cog size. For the short chain or large cog, the Eno is positioned forward and can be either up or down to adjust chain tension. For the long chain or small cog, the Eno is positioned rearward and again, can be positioned up or down to adjust the chain tension. I use the rear down position on my Eno because 1) it maximizes clearance at the brake bridge and I am using oversized tires and 2) I can use the bike weight to tension the chain by putting the bike upright on the tires while I tighten the the hub to the frame - the weight of the bike wants to rotate the eccentric rearward and that tensions the chain. The forward up position would do the same if I had the tire clearance. As others have pointed out, brake shoe adjustment would be a problem. The only way I see to get two speeds without adjusting the brake shoes is to use two cogs and two chainrings so that the eccentric ended up in close to the same position for the two combinations. Laing Coco, FL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Eccentric ENO Hub and Fixed Gear Bikepacking
I'm going to third (fourth?) what Patrick said. The ENO is a clever solution to finding one gear choice on a bike with vertical dropouts. I used it that way on my Gunnar Crosshairs. But when I wanted to play with manual gear changes, I de-eccentric'd my ENO and used that wheel in a Surly Cross Check (long, forward facing horizontals), and was much happier, overall. Eric On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 8:23 PM Jim M. wrote: > I'll echo previous comments. I think the ENO is designed to allow enough > slack to get a fixed gear wheel out of the dropouts. It's not meant to > allow for on the fly gear changes, like the Quickbeam. If you're maxing out > tire size, the little bit of horizontal and vertical adjustment can cause > tire rub on the chainstays, or rub on fenders or rear brake bridge. When my > ENO bike is in the workstand, I use a 19mm wrench on the cams to hold the > proper tightness. I think it helps, but that's a big wrench to pack for a > ride. > > As Patrick Moore noted, you could probably use a a double/double that > equaled the same number of teeth. Still, if I had 85 lbs of bike with an > ENO, I'd probably just push rather than change gears on a snowy trailside. > > jim m > wc, ca > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Eccentric ENO Hub and Fixed Gear Bikepacking
I'll echo previous comments. I think the ENO is designed to allow enough slack to get a fixed gear wheel out of the dropouts. It's not meant to allow for on the fly gear changes, like the Quickbeam. If you're maxing out tire size, the little bit of horizontal and vertical adjustment can cause tire rub on the chainstays, or rub on fenders or rear brake bridge. When my ENO bike is in the workstand, I use a 19mm wrench on the cams to hold the proper tightness. I think it helps, but that's a big wrench to pack for a ride. As Patrick Moore noted, you could probably use a a double/double that equaled the same number of teeth. Still, if I had 85 lbs of bike with an ENO, I'd probably just push rather than change gears on a snowy trailside. jim m wc, ca -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Eccentric ENO Hub and Fixed Gear Bikepacking
My experience is similar to Patrick’s. I had an ENO hub on a Jamis sport touring bike. I had a difficult time getting my chain tension the way I wanted for fixed gear riding. Either too tight causing unnecessary friction or too loose feeling shady when I would try to skid stop. I am sure a more patient person could have gotten it to work fixed, but I couldn’t imagine trying to change it much once I had gotten it right. I ended up running the bike as a single speed and the ENO worked well in that capacity. I found that when I switched from a 16t freewheel to an 19 I had to extend my chain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Eccentric ENO Hub and Fixed Gear Bikepacking
To tighten the chain, you rotate the hub around the axle and the dropout; because the axle is in an eccentric, this makes the frame rise or drop on the axle. While holding the wheel in place (and thus, keeping the chain taut) you tighten the allen nuts. IME (I used the ENO on 2 frames) 2 teeth difference is the max that the ENO can handle; and depending on the chain and the ring and the cog, sometimes it can't even accommodate 2 teeth. It couldn't for the early '90s Diamond Back mtb frame I used it with Overall, for things you can count on, I would count on the ENO to take up slack for a single cog; but I would not count on it being able to accommodate a second cog , at least one that is 2 teeth larger or smaller than the first. Also, moving the wheel/rim may put the rim out of place for rear brake pads; I fixed this by removing the rear brake (I used fixed cogs). Also, moving the wheel means to move it up or down relative to the ground; this may mean, depending on clearances, that your tire rubs against the fender or even the seatstay bridge. When I installed fenders on the 1995 Riv Road custom, I had to be careful to rotate the wheel downward, against gravity, instead of letting it naturally rotate upward as the weight of the frame/bike would cause it to do. If it rotated upward, it would rub against the fender.2 co You may be able to get away with a 2 ring/ 2 cog arrangement, if the respective combinations add up to the same teeth. But note that tightening the chain with an ENO is slightly more complex an operation than when tightening it by means of an axle sliding on a long dropout. With 85 lb, I daresay it might be cumbersome. Personally, while I think that the ENO is a wonderful devise, I would hesitate to recommend it for anything more complex than taking up slack for a single cog and ring. On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 4:31 PM 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch < rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote: > ... > - What is the process for tightening the chain? > - What would that process look like with a dingle cog 2x2 set-up? I > presume I’d have to drop the rear wheel out, shift the chain, put the wheel > back, then tighten the chain. Keep in mind the bike is 85 lbs total and I > likely need to lay it down to change gears. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Eccentric ENO Hub and Fixed Gear Bikepacking
Backstory: Before I swapped the dropouts on my Hunqapillar to horizontal I, and Grant, talked with White Ind. about using their eccentric hub for fixed gear bikepacking. We were both told absolutely not, it will fail. Update: Grant recently followed up with them and asked specifically what would fail. Nothing in the hub, it turns out, they were concerned about aluminum dropouts, despite knowing this is on a Rivendell, thus has to be steel. Sigh. The horizontal dropout on Boots ain’t happening, so I have questions about the ENO hub for those who have experience with one (speculation doesn’t help here, actual experience only please): - What is the process for tightening the chain? - What would that process look like with a dingle cog 2x2 set-up? I presume I’d have to drop the rear wheel out, shift the chain, put the wheel back, then tighten the chain. Keep in mind the bike is 85 lbs total and I likely need to lay it down to change gears. Anything else I should think about? With abandon, Patrick www.CatholicHalos.org www.MindYourHeadCoop.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
